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Which driver won each intra-team battle in Austria?
Poll ended at Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:18 am
Hamilton 4%  4%  [ 11 ]
Bottas 6%  6%  [ 19 ]
Vettel 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Leclerc 10%  10%  [ 31 ]
Verstappen 11%  11%  [ 33 ]
Gasly 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ricciardo 9%  9%  [ 27 ]
Hulkenberg 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Magnussen 4%  4%  [ 11 ]
Grosjean 6%  6%  [ 19 ]
Sainz 4%  4%  [ 11 ]
Norris 7%  7%  [ 20 ]
Perez 9%  9%  [ 28 ]
Stroll 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Raikkonen 10%  10%  [ 31 ]
Giovinazzi 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Albon 7%  7%  [ 21 ]
Kvyat 2%  2%  [ 5 ]
Russell 10%  10%  [ 31 ]
Kubica 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 304
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:18 am 
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The results from an entirely forgettable French grand prix are:

Image

Mercedes
TMW race winner: Hamilton (100%)
Hamilton 6 - 2 Bottas
Hamilton 71% - 29% Bottas

Despite qualifying on the front row and finishing second, Valtteri Bottas receives all of zero votes in France, and it's an entirely fair result. He didn't really trouble Lewis at any point when it mattered, and while Lewis was cruising to another victory, Bottas was forced to defend his second place against Charles Leclerc on the last lap. It hands Bottas his third zero vote race of 2019, with Lewis extending his lead to 6-2 and padding the percentage side of things too.

Ferrari
TMW race winner: Leclerc (100%)
Vettel 6 - 2 Leclerc
Vettel 51% - 49% Leclerc

Another TMW vote where one driver received the full share and another where there shouldn't be any surprise at that. Charles Leclerc was clearly the faster of the two Ferrari drivers. Vettel's Q3 was perhaps compromised by a transmission issue but he also seemed to suggest his second run simply wasn't good enough, and left him with a recovery job on Sunday, which he did the bare minimum of by reaching P5. Meanwhile his teammate was, as previously mentioned, hounding down the second of the two Mercedes on the last lap. It's a result that ends a run of five successive TMW victories for Seb Vettel, as well as inflicting his first zero vote TMW result of the season.

Red Bull
TMW race winner: Verstappen (100%)
Verstappen 8 - 0 Gasly
Verstappen 97% - 3% Gasly

Thanks to results elsewhere, Pierre Gasly is now dead last in the TMW votes. Another 0 vote race (his fifth of the year, equaling Giovinazzi as the 'leader' in that statistic) means that he is one of two drivers yet to claim a TMW win, and now the only driver averaging less than a single vote per race. And as much as I do usually try to avoid saying anything about the race we're all voting on so as not to influence people's opinions in any way, I think I would be safe to say that things are probably not going to look any better for him after yesterday!

Renault
TMW race winner: Ricciardo (65%)
Ricciardo 6 - 2 Hulkenberg
Ricciardo 53% - 47% Hulkenberg

Daniel Ricciardo makes it six TMW wins in a row, but once again it's a close run thing with arguments for both drivers. Daniel qualified ahead and was ahead for the majority of the race, which seems to be what has earned him the larger share of the votes. However, his attempts to get ahead of Lando Norris at the end of the race ultimately dropped him behind Nico Hulkenberg and out of the points, and that is clearly something that has counted against him with some of the voters. Either way the percentage vote between the pair is still pretty close, even if the 6-2 score for the season might suggest otherwise.

Haas
TMW race winner: Magnussen (69%)
Magnussen 6 - 2 Grosjean
Magnussen 67% - 33% Grosjean

Was that Haas' worst race in F1 yet? Only kept off the bottom of the order by virtue of Williams being, well, the 2019 Williams. Magnussen was deemed to have had the slightly less awful weekend and becomes another driver to enjoy a 6-2 TMW advantage.

McLaren
TMW race winner: Sainz (65%)
Sainz 6 - 2 Norris
Sainz 49% - 51% Norris

Again, not a great deal to choose between the competitive McLaren pair, but once more it's Carlos Sainz who edges ahead. Norris had the better Saturday and impressively leads the head-to-head 5-3, but for the second race in a row was the McLaren driver to experience reliability issues. For a while it looked like a second successive DNF was inevitable but the car ultimately held together long enough for him to finish P10 on the road, promoted to P9 courtesy of Daniel Ricciardo's penalties. However, Carlos Sainz had already scampered away to claim the best-of-the-rest honours.

Racing Point
TMW race winner: Perez (88%)
Perez 6 - 2 Stroll
Perez 62% - 38% Stroll

6-2 seems to be an incredibly popular TMW score. Another enjoying that advantage is Sergio Perez, who rebounded from a poor showing in Canada to outpace his young teammate. Qualifying was once more particularly poor for Lance, who didn't get out of Q1 despite his teammate managing to bang in a top-10 lap shortly before Stroll crossed the line. The race was closer as Lance again tried to a long first stint but, on this occasion, failed to make it work and ended up finishing behind his teammate.

Alfa-Romeo
TMW race winner: Raikkonen (98%)
Raikkonen 7 - 1 Giovinazzi
Raikkonen 89% - 11% Giovinazzi

After breaking his TMW duck in Canada it was back to reality for Giovinazzi in France. Perhaps the percentage of votes scored by Kimi was a little harsh given Gio got his car into Q3, something his teammate failed to do, and was ultimately on the wrong strategy for the race as a result. But then again Kimi ended up finishing 7th while Giovinazzi simply went backwards in the race, so maybe it isn't so harsh!

Toro Rosso
TMW race winner: Kvyat (75%)
Albon 3 - 5 Kvyat
Albon 35% - 65% Kvyat

Not a memorable race for the Toro Rosso pair, but Daniil Kvyat once again gets the TMW spoils. Alex Albon did outqualify him, although how much that was down to Toro Rosso knowing Kvyat had many penalties and didn't bother trying too hard is another question. In the race the two gradually converged before Kvyat got past Albon on track, which was probably the telling moment for a lot of voters.

Williams
TMW race winner: Russell (71%)
Russell 8 - 0 Kubica
Russell 91% - 9% Kubica

Another race, another George Russell win. Robert Kubica did start ahead of him for the first time this year, albeit only because of penalties, and did finish ahead of him as well. However, it looks like there is a degree of sympathy from voters for the way Russell's first attempt at passing Kubica saw him pushed off the track, damaging his front wing and necessitating an extra pit stop. The fact that he then made the same move stick some laps later can't have hurt, either. It was at least a better split of the votes for Kubica, jumping his percentage for the year up to 9% and lifting him clear of Pierre Gasly in that respect.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:46 am 
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The easy calls:

Leclerc over Vettel -- Closer than Vettel's starting position made it look, but Leclerc was clearly the quicker Ferrari all weekend.
Verstappen over Gasly -- It's just embarrassing at this point. The only good thing about Gasly's performance is that he reminds us of how good the top drivers are.
Perez over Stroll -- Qualifying was close, but Perez was clearly better in the race.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- Qualified and finished ahead, and put on some great defending against Gasly. GIO was pretty good this time, though.
Albon over Kvyat -- To be honest, I barely noticed Toro Rosso at all. But Albon was quicker.
Russel over Kubica -- Now there's a shock.

The harder calls:

Bottas over Hamilton -- Lewis pulled out a better lap in qualifying, but he seemed to damage his own car in the race and was generally nowhere. Bottas wasn't impressive either, to be fair.
Ricciardo over Hulkenberg -- Hulk was the better qualifier, but Ricciardo finished ahead despite a dodgy strategy. I didn't see how he got past Hulk, to be honest.
Grosjean over Magnussen -- It's temping to base this one on qualifying and give it to KMag. But he was only ahead of RoGro by the tiniest margin in Q2, and he sabotaged his own race with the jump start.
Norris over Sainz -- This could have gone either way, but Norris did a great job, and there's no way to tell if Sainz would have beaten him without his penalties.

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TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:51 am 
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I must admit I was a bit emotive with my choice of Hamilton over Bottas but I couldn't vote for Bottas after he basically just waved Verstappen past with no resistance at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:56 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I must admit I was a bit emotive with my choice of Hamilton over Bottas but I couldn't vote for Bottas after he basically just waved Verstappen past with no resistance at all.


Given that both mercedes were having problems, and how fast verstappen was catching bottas, just what was the point of defending? With that many laps left, he had no chance of keeping verstappen behind. And if you think about it, verstappen passed leclerc in a bit of a poor manner. Bottas possibly wanted to avoid this. He knows what verstappen can be like. So he maybe tried to keep out the way. Verstappen was on much newer tyres and red bull quite clearly better than mercedes. If Bottas had kept defending Verstappen, if you thik about it, the time waisted doing this will have cost him a podium.

It may have looked wrong at the time being this kind, but it helped get him the result he did. And this result was the highest position i think the team could have expected given how bad there car was. Verstappen will have most certanly got past anyway and bottas spending more time defending will have allowed vettel to catch up and pass him. Reemember vettel was in a better car too and on new tyres.

Given how much mercedes were struggling, i just can't see anything wrong with bottas lacking defence this time. It was the right thing to do.

Also, Hamilton ruined his own starting position by a mistake and even further ruined his own race by running over the kerb countless times. Neither were very good, but I can't see how Hamilton can get voted over Bottas this weekend. Hamilton finished lower than he started down to a mistake and was 2 places behind Bottas. Just because Bottas lacked a bit of defence, how is this a reason to vote Hamilton over him. Hamilton went backwards in this race so in a way, it is worse than Bottas in canada. Although it was clear Bottas wasn't very good here like hamilton was in canada. But hamilton got the worst result of the mercedes pair this year while Bottas still managed to get a podium. And Bottas getting this was down to hamilton struggling admittedly, but he still should get the vote IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:12 am 
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Exediron wrote:
The easy calls:

Leclerc over Vettel -- Closer than Vettel's starting position made it look, but Leclerc was clearly the quicker Ferrari all weekend.
Verstappen over Gasly -- It's just embarrassing at this point. The only good thing about Gasly's performance is that he reminds us of how good the top drivers are.
Perez over Stroll -- Qualifying was close, but Perez was clearly better in the race.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- Qualified and finished ahead, and put on some great defending against Gasly. GIO was pretty good this time, though.
Albon over Kvyat -- To be honest, I barely noticed Toro Rosso at all. But Albon was quicker.
Russel over Kubica -- Now there's a shock.

The harder calls:

Bottas over Hamilton -- Lewis pulled out a better lap in qualifying, but he seemed to damage his own car in the race and was generally nowhere. Bottas wasn't impressive either, to be fair.
Ricciardo over Hulkenberg -- Hulk was the better qualifier, but Ricciardo finished ahead despite a dodgy strategy. I didn't see how he got past Hulk, to be honest.
Grosjean over Magnussen -- It's temping to base this one on qualifying and give it to KMag. But he was only ahead of RoGro by the tiniest margin in Q2, and he sabotaged his own race with the jump start.
Norris over Sainz -- This could have gone either way, but Norris did a great job, and there's no way to tell if Sainz would have beaten him without his penalties.


At the risk of people thinking we're the same person, those are exactly the same as my choices and almost exactly what I would've written if I'd been typing up an explanation! Six obvious ones, as you identify. For the rest...

Bottas was the least poor of the two Mercedes.
Ricciardo/Hulk was almost a coin toss depending on how much value you give qualifying vs race performance.
Kmag's ending up P5 in Q3 was almost enough to sway him over the typically unimpressive Grosjean, but he undid all that good work at the start.
Norris/Sainz almost feels unfair given the penalties Sainz had. Carlos did a very good job to recover to P8, while Norris did a very good job over the weekend as well. It's kind of the anti-Mercedes in that both had very good weekends.

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Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x8
2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:51 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
The easy calls:

Leclerc over Vettel -- Closer than Vettel's starting position made it look, but Leclerc was clearly the quicker Ferrari all weekend.
Verstappen over Gasly -- It's just embarrassing at this point. The only good thing about Gasly's performance is that he reminds us of how good the top drivers are.
Perez over Stroll -- Qualifying was close, but Perez was clearly better in the race.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- Qualified and finished ahead, and put on some great defending against Gasly. GIO was pretty good this time, though.
Albon over Kvyat -- To be honest, I barely noticed Toro Rosso at all. But Albon was quicker.
Russel over Kubica -- Now there's a shock.

The harder calls:

Bottas over Hamilton -- Lewis pulled out a better lap in qualifying, but he seemed to damage his own car in the race and was generally nowhere. Bottas wasn't impressive either, to be fair.
Ricciardo over Hulkenberg -- Hulk was the better qualifier, but Ricciardo finished ahead despite a dodgy strategy. I didn't see how he got past Hulk, to be honest.
Grosjean over Magnussen -- It's temping to base this one on qualifying and give it to KMag. But he was only ahead of RoGro by the tiniest margin in Q2, and he sabotaged his own race with the jump start.
Norris over Sainz -- This could have gone either way, but Norris did a great job, and there's no way to tell if Sainz would have beaten him without his penalties.


At the risk of people thinking we're the same person, those are exactly the same as my choices and almost exactly what I would've written if I'd been typing up an explanation! Six obvious ones, as you identify. For the rest...

Bottas was the least poor of the two Mercedes.
Ricciardo/Hulk was almost a coin toss depending on how much value you give qualifying vs race performance.
Kmag's ending up P5 in Q3 was almost enough to sway him over the typically unimpressive Grosjean, but he undid all that good work at the start.
Norris/Sainz almost feels unfair given the penalties Sainz had. Carlos did a very good job to recover to P8, while Norris did a very good job over the weekend as well. It's kind of the anti-Mercedes in that both had very good weekends.


Magnussen was quite possibly responsible for preventing Grosjean from getting throught to Q3 though. magnussen was messy at the end of Q2 and went off track. From what I heard, many behind had to abort their laps when it is pretty much certain that magnussen wouldn't have gone through if it wasn't for his mistake. From what I read, I think Grosjean was one of those with a lap he had to abort. Yet again, Grosjean seems to be a magnet for bad luck. Think that is twice now Magnussen has quite possibly effected his team mates result in qualifying. He did very well in the next session, but it was all down to his accident off moment preventing others from improving that allowed him to impress us. For all we know, given how impressive grosjean was in practice at one point, if it wasn't for magnussen in qualifying, he could have possibly done what magnussen did and at least had a reasonable race result for how bad the car was.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:23 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
At the risk of people thinking we're the same person, those are exactly the same as my choices and almost exactly what I would've written if I'd been typing up an explanation! Six obvious ones, as you identify. For the rest...

:lol:

It doesn't help that we've ended up with the same Group Pick'em selections again...

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TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:59 am 
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The only one I seem to be at odds with is between Sainz and Norris, I was more impressed with Sainz than Norris, Sainz started 19th and finished 8th, Norris started 5th and finished 6th, with 10 laps to go Sainz was only 4 seconds behind Norris but then he damaged his front wing and dropped back. I guess you could down mark him for that but just how fast was he driving to get within 5 seconds of Norris?

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2017: 9th Place
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:02 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
At the risk of people thinking we're the same person, those are exactly the same as my choices and almost exactly what I would've written if I'd been typing up an explanation! Six obvious ones, as you identify. For the rest...

:lol:

It doesn't help that we've ended up with the same Group Pick'em selections again...


And we've continued to team up in the Top Three Championship...

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Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x8
2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:33 am 
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pokerman wrote:
The only one I seem to be at odds with is between Sainz and Norris, I was more impressed with Sainz than Norris, Sainz started 19th and finished 8th, Norris started 5th and finished 6th, with 10 laps to go Sainz was only 4 seconds behind Norris but then he damaged his front wing and dropped back. I guess you could down mark him for that but just how fast was he driving to get within 5 seconds of Norris?

To be fair, Norris started ahead of at least one driver in a faster car, and was still the 'best of the rest' at the end of the race. His strategy was a touch compromised, with a switch to mediums instead of hards; he had to manage those tyres for a long stint. I'm not saying that Sainz wasn't more impressive - just that Norris did do a pretty good job himself.
Personally, I think there's a good combo of an improving team with two very good drivers, in McLaren this year.
Edited for 'fat-finger' typing!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:36 pm 
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I was not able to vote but IMO Vettel was definitely faster than Charles in the race.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:30 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
I was not able to vote but IMO Vettel was definitely faster than Charles in the race.

Yea a am a bit surprised that Leclerc has totally dominated Vettel in terms of votes. We can't be certain that leclerc would have had pole without vettel's issues. vettel can sometimes come from nowhere in qualifying. In the race, Vettel in no way was bad. Despite having 2 stops, he got by Hamilton and very nearly Bottas. Given that he couldn't take part in Q3, this was a really solid drive from him. Also, Although i first thought that Leclerc was unfairly pushed off track by Verstappen, I don't think that any more. From the replays, it looked like Verstappen had easily got his car enough along side and he was entitled to use the space he did. Leclerc just turned into a gap that was going to close too quickly and it could have been worse. It was still a great race from leclerc, but i actually can't say that over the weekend that there was much difference pace wise between the 2 ferrari drivers.


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