planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:32 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2310
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
dpastern wrote:
pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
As a Hamilton fan I would like to see him challenged. Although it does seem some people just want any other driver no matter who it is, and if that doesn't work, keep chucking more drivers at the problem. The same problem RB face with finding someone to pair up with Max.

Indeed even Rosberg I believe got criticised until he finally won in 2016?


Rosberg didn't win in 2016 - far from it. He was outdriven by Lewis for the entire year, but very bad mechanical luck cost Lewis that championship.

Hamilton lost more than the 5 point difference in bad starts alone. Yes Malaysia had a big impact but Lewis needs to shoulder some of the blame for those 5 points. And I'm pretty sure he himself recognised that he didn't take Rosberg's challenge seriously enough until it was too late

It wasn't Rosberg's best ever season performance but it's rubbish to suggest he never beat Hamilton fair and square. The likes of Australia and Suzuka instantly come to mind

Hamilton had just the one engine problem?

However I would agree that Hamilton didn't take Rosberg seriously enough in the early part of the season until he got crashed out in Barcelona, however his comeback did get somewhat interfered with by the various engine penalties before the final blow up in Malaysia.


I said at the time that Hamilton seemed complacent, turning up at the start of the season with the swag shades and larger than life persona. Before he knew it he was mired in an exceptionally difficult Championship battle. He was better than Rosberg in 2016 in my estimation but it was close enough and Rosberg did deserve the Championship nonetheless.

I was happy for Rosberg and was also rooting for him that season. Wish he was back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
Invade wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
dpastern wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Indeed even Rosberg I believe got criticised until he finally won in 2016?


Rosberg didn't win in 2016 - far from it. He was outdriven by Lewis for the entire year, but very bad mechanical luck cost Lewis that championship.

Hamilton lost more than the 5 point difference in bad starts alone. Yes Malaysia had a big impact but Lewis needs to shoulder some of the blame for those 5 points. And I'm pretty sure he himself recognised that he didn't take Rosberg's challenge seriously enough until it was too late

It wasn't Rosberg's best ever season performance but it's rubbish to suggest he never beat Hamilton fair and square. The likes of Australia and Suzuka instantly come to mind

Hamilton had just the one engine problem?

However I would agree that Hamilton didn't take Rosberg seriously enough in the early part of the season until he got crashed out in Barcelona, however his comeback did get somewhat interfered with by the various engine penalties before the final blow up in Malaysia.


I said at the time that Hamilton seemed complacent, turning up at the start of the season with the swag shades and larger than life persona. Before he knew it he was mired in an exceptionally difficult Championship battle. He was better than Rosberg in 2016 in my estimation but it was close enough and Rosberg did deserve the Championship nonetheless.

I was happy for Rosberg and was also rooting for him that season. Wish he was back.

Well as a Hamilton fan I would be looking at the 4 engine affected races against none for Rosberg and would be thinking that if the tables had been turned Hamilton would have won the title long before the final race of the season.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 1664
UnlikeUday wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
dpastern wrote:
pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
As a Hamilton fan I would like to see him challenged. Although it does seem some people just want any other driver no matter who it is, and if that doesn't work, keep chucking more drivers at the problem. The same problem RB face with finding someone to pair up with Max.

Indeed even Rosberg I believe got criticised until he finally won in 2016?


Rosberg didn't win in 2016 - far from it. He was outdriven by Lewis for the entire year, but very bad mechanical luck cost Lewis that championship.


Having deliberately allowed Hamilton to pass him at Monaco (which Hamilton won after Red Bull had no tyres ready at a pit stop), Rosberg got to a point where he had won 9 races to Hamilton's 6. From then on, Rosberg didn't have to win any more races to win the World Championship, and he took the less risky route of doing what was necessary to win the World Championship - which he did win.

That doesn't mean Rosberg was a faster driver than Hamilton, but he was able to do enough to get Hamilton into a state of anxiety.
As for Bottas - I think Hamilton sleeps very well. The team has always treated Bottas as the No. 2 driver and that is so well established that even when he tried to change that at the start of this year, he had to not just compete with Hamilton but had to change the teams attitude to him. He hasn't succeeded, but I think he was entitled to try - driving the Mercedes is probably his only chance at a World Title. Its not in the teams interest for Bottas to challenge Hamilton.

I would like to see F1 being a competitive sport, with the best drivers competing with each other, and I would like to see Hamilton having to work hard to earn the World Title. It needs to be one of the best drivers replacing Bottas for that to happen for the rest of this year. If they cannot replace Bottas with one of those, then they might as well keep him until the end of the year. At least Bottas can occasionally compete with Lewis in Q3.


So Mercedes should keep him because of this? This is his 3rd year & the way things are shaping up he again won't be finishing runner up in the (arguably)fastest car on the grid!


Your point is one reason why Mercedes might replace Bottas with a better driver. It is in Mercedes interest to hire a driver who can finish second in the World Championship. The way Bottas is performing, people start suggesting that Hamilton is making the difference and not the car.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 1022
Location: Stratford
Lt. Drebin wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Rosberg didn't win in 2016 - far from it. He was outdriven by Lewis for the entire year, but very bad mechanical luck cost Lewis that championship.


There were several things which made Rosberg get the WDC Title.

1. He conquered Hamilton strongholds, such as Spa, Monza and Suzuka.
2. He had a great start to the season and didn't lose hope and fought back after mid season results crisis. His comeback from summer break was phenomenal, and the last 4 races he was controlling the point balance with not much risk.
3. The crucial and decisive move was that on Verstappen. Rosberg overtook him in Japan (as well as Abu Dhabi), Hamilton did not and stayed behind Verstappen in Japan.

Hardly outdriven by Hamilton. Hardly.


BIB - not sure he 'conquered' those Hamilton strongholds. Others have said this but I just disagree.

Spa - Hamilton didn't bother with qualifying properly due his engine penalties. Rosberg was unopposed,
Monza - Hamilton was quicker all weekend including by half a second in Q3. Hamilton got an abysmal start and it was all over.
Suzuka - Rosberg out qualified Hamilton 2014-16 here so I'd contest it was a Hamilton stronghold.

I won't say that Rosberg didn't deserve the WDC that year. He drove well, Hamilton drove well. They both would have been deserved winners, I just disagree part of the reason Rosberg won the WDC was because he managed to conquer Hamilton strongholds.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 7745
Location: Mumbai, India
One of the reasons for the long thought process of deciding Hamilton's team-mate is the possibility of getting Verstappen over to Mercedes. No doubt Mercedes are thinking long term as well & have shown interest in wanting Verstappen.

Verstappen surely will be staying with Red Bull in 2020. If then the Red Bull Honda is not a title contender car then Verstappen may consider moving when new rules are adopted in 2021. If he agrees to move to Mercedes in 2021 due to this reason or any other reason, Mercedes surely would be having a hint of it.

If within this summer break they get an idea Verstappen may join Mercedes in 2021, they will continue with Bottas. If they're sure Verstappen won't join Mercedes (and may stick with Red Bull or even join Ferrari), they will opt for Ocon. All this because Ocon & Verstappen can't possibly be team-mates.

Ocon is Mercedes' answer to Ferrari's Leclerc & Red Bull's Verstappen. And if no Verstappen coming onboard, it will pave the way for Russell (after Hamilton retires) as Mercedes see Ocon & Russell as the future lineup of the works team.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:26 pm
Posts: 100
Toto Wolff knew the likelihood of getting Verstappen for 2020 was approaching zero when he refused to endorse Bottas after the Hungarian grand prix. Maybe there's someone left at the FIA who can impose upon Mercedes-Benz to save the sport from the AGW tyrants for another year by giving Ocon to Renault. If Renault isn't going to pull out without a decent French driver though, Ocon will have Bottas' oft-squandered seat next year.

_________________
Does anyone think that there has ever been a moment of frustration with his father when Max has pointed out to Jos that he was the Pierre Gasly of 1994?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:54 am
Posts: 2567
Hamilton’s failure to overtake Verstappen in Suzuka was a much bigger moment in 2016 than most people appreciate. If he made that move stick, Rosberg would’ve been under far more pressure in the final four races of the season, as there would be no margin for error.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
KingVoid wrote:
Hamilton’s failure to overtake Verstappen in Suzuka was a much bigger moment in 2016 than most people appreciate. If he made that move stick, Rosberg would’ve been under far more pressure in the final four races of the season, as there would be no margin for error.

In other words it wouldn't have changed anything. More poignantly, if he hadn't avoided Max when Max swerved in the braking zone (one of the many moves that prompted the Verstappen rule) then both he and Max would have been out of the race.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
I think the Bottas news is coming very soon now. Albon to RBR was the first major move of the break and the Mercedes news is on the horizon.


Last edited by sandman1347 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
duplicate, please delete


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:49 am
Posts: 894
No - so many others who would do better - just no

and noting that I do think Bottas should be on grid - just not at Mercedes


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 4:05 am
Posts: 348
F1Oz wrote:
No - so many others who would do better - just no

and noting that I do think Bottas should be on grid - just not at Mercedes


Why have mediocre drivers to fill up the grid? F1 needs 20 Verstappen level drivers to push this sport forward. We don't need drivers collecting $200 everytime they pass Go just for the sake of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1095
mcdo wrote:
dpastern wrote:
pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
As a Hamilton fan I would like to see him challenged. Although it does seem some people just want any other driver no matter who it is, and if that doesn't work, keep chucking more drivers at the problem. The same problem RB face with finding someone to pair up with Max.

Indeed even Rosberg I believe got criticised until he finally won in 2016?


Rosberg didn't win in 2016 - far from it. He was outdriven by Lewis for the entire year, but very bad mechanical luck cost Lewis that championship.

Hamilton lost more than the 5 point difference in bad starts alone. Yes Malaysia had a big impact but Lewis needs to shoulder some of the blame for those 5 points. And I'm pretty sure he himself recognised that he didn't take Rosberg's challenge seriously enough until it was too late

It wasn't Rosberg's best ever season performance but it's rubbish to suggest he never beat Hamilton fair and square. The likes of Australia and Suzuka instantly come to mind


Those two may well spring to mind, but what others? Nico jumped Hamilton at the start at Australia as Hamilton dropped to 5th whilst Nico stayed 2nd. But Australia wasn't anything special, he got out qualfied by 0.4.

Nico's best performance all year was German GP qualifying where he beat Hamilton by 0.1 with only 1 run and Japanese GP qualifying where he beat Hamilton by 0.07. He also kept it out of the wall in Baku when miles off Hamiltons pace. Other than that his entire season was just collecting wins whilst Hamilton had reliability issues. He won 9 races, in 7 of them, at the end of lap 1- Hamilton was outside the top 6 with Nico leading. He got open goals in China, Russia, Spa, Singapore and Malaysia due to Hamiltons relaibiltiy issues.

They both made 3 bad starts and actually lost a similar amount of points to bad starts.

Nico isn't a bad champion, but over 2010-2016, 2016 was his worst season. Maybe 2012 was worse but its close. But he won the title. The same as Kimi, over 2002-2007, Kimi's worst year was the one he won the title. As well as Prost who had probably the worst year of his career in 1989 to win the title.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1095
KingVoid wrote:
Hamilton’s failure to overtake Verstappen in Suzuka was a much bigger moment in 2016 than most people appreciate. If he made that move stick, Rosberg would’ve been under far more pressure in the final four races of the season, as there would be no margin for error.


I don't see how it makes much difference. Rosberg needed 2-2-2-3 to win the title. Him needing 2-2-2-2 doesn't change much.

You're highlighting a 3 point swing in Japan when the race before a 28 point swing occured


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
shay550 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
No - so many others who would do better - just no

and noting that I do think Bottas should be on grid - just not at Mercedes


Why have mediocre drivers to fill up the grid? F1 needs 20 Verstappen level drivers to push this sport forward. We don't need drivers collecting $200 everytime they pass Go just for the sake of it.

If there were 20 drivers of that caliber just sitting around somewhere, you would have a valid point but there are not.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1095
Lt. Drebin wrote:
1. He conquered Hamilton strongholds, such as Spa, Monza and Suzuka.
2. He had a great start to the season and didn't lose hope and fought back after mid season results crisis. His comeback from summer break was phenomenal, and the last 4 races he was controlling the point balance with not much risk.
3. The crucial and decisive move was that on Verstappen. Rosberg overtook him in Japan (as well as Abu Dhabi), Hamilton did not and stayed behind Verstappen in Japan.

Hardly outdriven by Hamilton. Hardly.


1- Suzuka and Brazil are historically Hamiltons weakest tracks. Never heard anybody call Suzuka a Hamilton stronghold before. One of the few times Button out paced Hamilton fair and square in the dry was Suzuka 2011, in both qualifying and the race.

I think it was more telling that Hamilton was closer than ever in 2016 on his weak tracks. Rosberg out qualified Hamilton by 0.2 and 0.080 in 14 and 15 so 16 was the closest he got in the hybrid era.

Monza was the biggest gap Hamilton ever put on Rosberg over 1 lap in 2016.

Hamilton was 3-0 down in qualifying at Brazil but took his only win against Rosberg in qualifying there in 2016. Rosberg was very weak over 1 lap in 2016. I don't think Rosberg drove well at all in 2016, he was slower than the previous 3 seasons, he made more errors, he got more penalties, he became awfil in wet when previously good, had more collisions than any season in his career, had his worse record in qualifying against Hamilton etc etc.

2- As for Rosbergs phenomenal comeback after the summer...
- Spa, Hamilton starts p20 due to engine penalties, Rosberg pole
- Italy, out qualified by 0.5 by Hamilton. One of the largest gaps ever between them in a dry race. Hamilton drops to 7th at the start though. Easy win after taking the lead at the start.
- Singapore, Hamilton misses all of FP2 and FP3 and all night time practise and goes into qualifying/race completely blind.
- Malaysia, Hamilton blows up from the lead

If you think that is phenomenal then so be it, sums up his year those 4 races. 3 mechanical issues for Hamilton and 1 bad start over those 4 races.

3) Rosberg did not overtake Verstappen in Japan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
sandman1347 wrote:
I think the Bottas news is coming very soon now. Albon to RBR was the first major move of the break and the Mercedes news is on the horizon.

I heard that the deadline was 24th August.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
shay550 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
No - so many others who would do better - just no

and noting that I do think Bottas should be on grid - just not at Mercedes


Why have mediocre drivers to fill up the grid? F1 needs 20 Verstappen level drivers to push this sport forward. We don't need drivers collecting $200 everytime they pass Go just for the sake of it.

You think there are 20 Verstappen level drivers?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:02 am
Posts: 1970
Location: Far side of Koozebane
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think the Bottas news is coming very soon now. Albon to RBR was the first major move of the break and the Mercedes news is on the horizon.

I heard that the deadline was 24th August.


So 11 days huh?

You'd imagine by now that the decisions been made & they're just trying to sort a seat for the odd man out for next year.

_________________
Races since last non RB, Merc, Ferrari winner (After Hungary- 19) - 130 & counting.( Last win, Lotus, 17/3/13)

Non RB, Merc, Ferrari podiums won in Hybrid era - 336 trophies available, 24 won

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 3506
pokerman wrote:
shay550 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
No - so many others who would do better - just no

and noting that I do think Bottas should be on grid - just not at Mercedes


Why have mediocre drivers to fill up the grid? F1 needs 20 Verstappen level drivers to push this sport forward. We don't need drivers collecting $200 everytime they pass Go just for the sake of it.

You think there are 20 Verstappen level drivers?

More to the point, when did "not equalling or beating Hamilton" become "mediocre" - Bottas is a highly rated driver who - as digging back through the Hamilton thread showed - was a driver people thought would be able to beat him.

Second place has 72% of the points that first place has. Bottas has 75% of Hamilton's points total. If he was doing a Gasly, then we'd have a case to start suggesting he's mediocre. But he's a multiple race winner, who scored multiple podiums before landing his Mercedes seat and has gone on to get pole positions and victories. He also has a very good qualifying record against Hamilton this year - who is the sport's most successful qualifier.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think the Bottas news is coming very soon now. Albon to RBR was the first major move of the break and the Mercedes news is on the horizon.

I heard that the deadline was 24th August.


So 11 days huh?

You'd imagine by now that the decisions been made & they're just trying to sort a seat for the odd man out for next year.

I think it's a bit of everything, it sounds like they're still not sure who to sign and then it's trying to sort out the driver they don't sign, might they even keep the driver who has a problem finding a seat elsewheres?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
shay550 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
No - so many others who would do better - just no

and noting that I do think Bottas should be on grid - just not at Mercedes


Why have mediocre drivers to fill up the grid? F1 needs 20 Verstappen level drivers to push this sport forward. We don't need drivers collecting $200 everytime they pass Go just for the sake of it.

You think there are 20 Verstappen level drivers?

More to the point, when did "not equalling or beating Hamilton" become "mediocre" - Bottas is a highly rated driver who - as digging back through the Hamilton thread showed - was a driver people thought would be able to beat him.

Second place has 72% of the points that first place has. Bottas has 75% of Hamilton's points total. If he was doing a Gasly, then we'd have a case to start suggesting he's mediocre. But he's a multiple race winner, who scored multiple podiums before landing his Mercedes seat and has gone on to get pole positions and victories. He also has a very good qualifying record against Hamilton this year - who is the sport's most successful qualifier.

It's the same old same old, some people are just fed up of Hamilton winning and any teammate that can't stop that is seen as an abject failure.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9671
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
shay550 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
No - so many others who would do better - just no

and noting that I do think Bottas should be on grid - just not at Mercedes


Why have mediocre drivers to fill up the grid? F1 needs 20 Verstappen level drivers to push this sport forward. We don't need drivers collecting $200 everytime they pass Go just for the sake of it.

You think there are 20 Verstappen level drivers?

More to the point, when did "not equalling or beating Hamilton" become "mediocre" - Bottas is a highly rated driver who - as digging back through the Hamilton thread showed - was a driver people thought would be able to beat him.

Second place has 72% of the points that first place has. Bottas has 75% of Hamilton's points total. If he was doing a Gasly, then we'd have a case to start suggesting he's mediocre. But he's a multiple race winner, who scored multiple podiums before landing his Mercedes seat and has gone on to get pole positions and victories. He also has a very good qualifying record against Hamilton this year - who is the sport's most successful qualifier.

It's the same old same old, some people are just fed up of Hamilton winning and any teammate that can't stop that is seen as an abject failure.

I have a feeling shay550 isn't quite fed up yet.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 2239
If they are going to replace Bottas, I'd want Russel. Ocon being not quite as good as Perez doesn't really excite me.

_________________
I remember when this website was all fields.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2310
Johnson wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Hamilton’s failure to overtake Verstappen in Suzuka was a much bigger moment in 2016 than most people appreciate. If he made that move stick, Rosberg would’ve been under far more pressure in the final four races of the season, as there would be no margin for error.


I don't see how it makes much difference. Rosberg needed 2-2-2-3 to win the title. Him needing 2-2-2-2 doesn't change much.

You're highlighting a 3 point swing in Japan when the race before a 28 point swing occured


Hah - yes. Funny how it goes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:40 am
Posts: 164
It would be nice to see someone actually challenge Hamilton in the same equipment. During a race I feel Vettel and Verstappen can easily dispatch Bottas in inferior equipment. There doesn't seem to be a great number of talented drivers on the grid. Maybe just 4 or 5. the rest to me just look liker filler drivers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
Vettel Fan wrote:
It would be nice to see someone actually challenge Hamilton in the same equipment. During a race I feel Vettel and Verstappen can easily dispatch Bottas in inferior equipment. There doesn't seem to be a great number of talented drivers on the grid. Maybe just 4 or 5. the rest to me just look liker filler drivers.

That must be why they are both behind him in the points...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
One thing I will say is that I do not think Ocon will be as good as Valteri on Saturdays but I do think that he will be better on Sundays. Perhaps that's actually a better scenario for Mercedes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 219
Bottas should be replaced, but there isn't any real replacement in sight. The only ones who would be exciting (in that order) are:

1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel

As neither of those 3 are likely to replace Bottas, I would like to see how Rusell does next year before promoting him next to Ham. Ocon is a journeyman (albeit at a high level) driver like Perez/Hulk/Heidfeld/Bottas/Massa.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
sandman1347 wrote:
Vettel Fan wrote:
It would be nice to see someone actually challenge Hamilton in the same equipment. During a race I feel Vettel and Verstappen can easily dispatch Bottas in inferior equipment. There doesn't seem to be a great number of talented drivers on the grid. Maybe just 4 or 5. the rest to me just look liker filler drivers.

That must be why they are both behind him in the points...

Nice and straight to the point.

That saved a more winded reply from me. :)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
A.J. wrote:
Bottas should be replaced, but there isn't any real replacement in sight. The only ones who would be exciting (in that order) are:

1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel

As neither of those 3 are likely to replace Bottas, I would like to see how Rusell does next year before promoting him next to Ham. Ocon is a journeyman (albeit at a high level) driver like Perez/Hulk/Heidfeld/Bottas/Massa.

Well I believe Alonso might have a veto against him dating back to 2007 whilst it's my understanding both Vettel and Verstappen could have joined but they would rather compete against Hamilton from afar.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 7745
Location: Mumbai, India
sandman1347 wrote:
Vettel Fan wrote:
It would be nice to see someone actually challenge Hamilton in the same equipment. During a race I feel Vettel and Verstappen can easily dispatch Bottas in inferior equipment. There doesn't seem to be a great number of talented drivers on the grid. Maybe just 4 or 5. the rest to me just look liker filler drivers.

That must be why they are both behind him in the points...

A driver is only 7 points behind Bottas in arguably the 3rd best car on the grid. Considering there are 9 races left, I think it's a tall order for Bottas to finish runner up. He's lucky Vettel is screwing up this year.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
UnlikeUday wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Vettel Fan wrote:
It would be nice to see someone actually challenge Hamilton in the same equipment. During a race I feel Vettel and Verstappen can easily dispatch Bottas in inferior equipment. There doesn't seem to be a great number of talented drivers on the grid. Maybe just 4 or 5. the rest to me just look liker filler drivers.

That must be why they are both behind him in the points...

A driver is only 7 points behind Bottas in arguably the 3rd best car on the grid. Considering there are 9 races left, I think it's a tall order for Bottas to finish runner up. He's lucky Vettel is screwing up this year.

If he said that he thought that they could beat Bottas in identical machinery, I would agree with him. Saying that they can easily dispatch him in inferior machinery just doesn't makes sense because he is beating them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:49 pm
Posts: 21
He comes across as a nice guy and I was a fan of Bottas when he was at Williams. I thought he did ok there and was happy to see him get a chance to race in a car capable of winning a title. But the gap between him & Lewis is what bothers me more. Bottas just hasn't seemed capable of consistently putting up some kind of fight. For me, I think Bottas has had his chance. Time for a new driver that can challenge for the championship and make the races more exciting. I don't mind who replaces him I'd be happy to see any half decent driver given a chance from Ocon to Hulk and several others. It can't get much duller than it is.

_________________
Watching from the cheap seats.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 219
sandman1347 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Vettel Fan wrote:
It would be nice to see someone actually challenge Hamilton in the same equipment. During a race I feel Vettel and Verstappen can easily dispatch Bottas in inferior equipment. There doesn't seem to be a great number of talented drivers on the grid. Maybe just 4 or 5. the rest to me just look liker filler drivers.

That must be why they are both behind him in the points...

A driver is only 7 points behind Bottas in arguably the 3rd best car on the grid. Considering there are 9 races left, I think it's a tall order for Bottas to finish runner up. He's lucky Vettel is screwing up this year.

If he said that he thought that they could beat Bottas in identical machinery, I would agree with him. Saying that they can easily dispatch him in inferior machinery just doesn't makes sense because he is beating them.


To be fair the poster didn't elaborate on the level of inferiority - this season the Merc has been utterly dominant, so VER being so near BOT is in itself quite laudable. I don't doubt for a second (and I would think not many would dispute this) that VET/VER can easily dispatch BOT in a car that's ~0.2 sec/lap slower than the Merc on average. Even if BOT regularly outqualifies them (which I also doubt), he averages at least one terrible stint each race to nullify that advantage.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 219
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Bottas should be replaced, but there isn't any real replacement in sight. The only ones who would be exciting (in that order) are:

1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel

As neither of those 3 are likely to replace Bottas, I would like to see how Rusell does next year before promoting him next to Ham. Ocon is a journeyman (albeit at a high level) driver like Perez/Hulk/Heidfeld/Bottas/Massa.

Well I believe Alonso might have a veto against him dating back to 2007 whilst it's my understanding both Vettel and Verstappen could have joined but they would rather compete against Hamilton from afar.


Curious to understand - what is your understanding of the second part based upon? I have read some rumours about VER not wanting to join Merc while HAM was there, but nothing at all about VET - where did you get that from?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Bottas should be replaced, but there isn't any real replacement in sight. The only ones who would be exciting (in that order) are:

1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel

As neither of those 3 are likely to replace Bottas, I would like to see how Rusell does next year before promoting him next to Ham. Ocon is a journeyman (albeit at a high level) driver like Perez/Hulk/Heidfeld/Bottas/Massa.

Well I believe Alonso might have a veto against him dating back to 2007 whilst it's my understanding both Vettel and Verstappen could have joined but they would rather compete against Hamilton from afar.


Curious to understand - what is your understanding of the second part based upon? I have read some rumours about VER not wanting to join Merc while HAM was there, but nothing at all about VET - where did you get that from?

I've been down here before and it's now hard to find the relevant articles but it was said that Vettel was in talks with Wolff at the end of the 2016 season shortly after Rosberg retired, both Ferrari and Vettel had a poor 2016 after a promising 2015 season, Ferrari had fallen further behind Mercedes and even got beat by Red Bull.

Vettel had just 1 year left on his Ferrari contract and maybe that's one reason why Bottas only got a 1 year contract at Mercedes? Anyway in 2017 Ferrari built a great car and Vettel then signed another 3 year contract with Ferrari.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 219
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Bottas should be replaced, but there isn't any real replacement in sight. The only ones who would be exciting (in that order) are:

1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel

As neither of those 3 are likely to replace Bottas, I would like to see how Rusell does next year before promoting him next to Ham. Ocon is a journeyman (albeit at a high level) driver like Perez/Hulk/Heidfeld/Bottas/Massa.

Well I believe Alonso might have a veto against him dating back to 2007 whilst it's my understanding both Vettel and Verstappen could have joined but they would rather compete against Hamilton from afar.


Curious to understand - what is your understanding of the second part based upon? I have read some rumours about VER not wanting to join Merc while HAM was there, but nothing at all about VET - where did you get that from?

I've been down here before and it's now hard to find the relevant articles but it was said that Vettel was in talks with Wolff at the end of the 2016 season shortly after Rosberg retired, both Ferrari and Vettel had a poor 2016 after a promising 2015 season, Ferrari had fallen further behind Mercedes and even got beat by Red Bull.

Vettel had just 1 year left on his Ferrari contract and maybe that's one reason why Bottas only got a 1 year contract at Mercedes? Anyway in 2017 Ferrari built a great car and Vettel then signed another 3 year contract with Ferrari.


Assuming everything you've said is correct, doesn't the part in bold give the reason as to why he re-signed with Ferrari? What does that have to do with Hamilton??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Bottas should be replaced, but there isn't any real replacement in sight. The only ones who would be exciting (in that order) are:

1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel

As neither of those 3 are likely to replace Bottas, I would like to see how Rusell does next year before promoting him next to Ham. Ocon is a journeyman (albeit at a high level) driver like Perez/Hulk/Heidfeld/Bottas/Massa.

Well I believe Alonso might have a veto against him dating back to 2007 whilst it's my understanding both Vettel and Verstappen could have joined but they would rather compete against Hamilton from afar.


Curious to understand - what is your understanding of the second part based upon? I have read some rumours about VER not wanting to join Merc while HAM was there, but nothing at all about VET - where did you get that from?

I've been down here before and it's now hard to find the relevant articles but it was said that Vettel was in talks with Wolff at the end of the 2016 season shortly after Rosberg retired, both Ferrari and Vettel had a poor 2016 after a promising 2015 season, Ferrari had fallen further behind Mercedes and even got beat by Red Bull.

Vettel had just 1 year left on his Ferrari contract and maybe that's one reason why Bottas only got a 1 year contract at Mercedes? Anyway in 2017 Ferrari built a great car and Vettel then signed another 3 year contract with Ferrari.


Assuming everything you've said is correct, doesn't the part in bold give the reason as to why he re-signed with Ferrari? What does that have to do with Hamilton??

How would signing for Ferrari when he had the chance to sign for Mercedes change what I said about Vettel preferring to compete against Hamilton from afar?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 219
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I believe Alonso might have a veto against him dating back to 2007 whilst it's my understanding both Vettel and Verstappen could have joined but they would rather compete against Hamilton from afar.


Curious to understand - what is your understanding of the second part based upon? I have read some rumours about VER not wanting to join Merc while HAM was there, but nothing at all about VET - where did you get that from?

I've been down here before and it's now hard to find the relevant articles but it was said that Vettel was in talks with Wolff at the end of the 2016 season shortly after Rosberg retired, both Ferrari and Vettel had a poor 2016 after a promising 2015 season, Ferrari had fallen further behind Mercedes and even got beat by Red Bull.

Vettel had just 1 year left on his Ferrari contract and maybe that's one reason why Bottas only got a 1 year contract at Mercedes? Anyway in 2017 Ferrari built a great car and Vettel then signed another 3 year contract with Ferrari.


Assuming everything you've said is correct, doesn't the part in bold give the reason as to why he re-signed with Ferrari? What does that have to do with Hamilton??

How would signing for Ferrari when he had the chance to sign for Mercedes change what I said about Vettel preferring to compete against Hamilton from afar?


Because they are unrelated?? Perhaps when VET saw that Ferrari could compete with Merc and were getting closer, he decided to stay on and finish the project rather than leave - winning a title at Ferrari than elsewhere is more special for the drivers, especially someone like VET for whom it would be like following in the footsteps of his idol.

It's all conjecture, but you're being a tiny bit ridiculous to state this is because he didn't want to go up against Hamilton without an iota of even tangential evidence to back that up.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mikeyg123, Option or Prime and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group