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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:46 am 
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A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:

Curious to understand - what is your understanding of the second part based upon? I have read some rumours about VER not wanting to join Merc while HAM was there, but nothing at all about VET - where did you get that from?

I've been down here before and it's now hard to find the relevant articles but it was said that Vettel was in talks with Wolff at the end of the 2016 season shortly after Rosberg retired, both Ferrari and Vettel had a poor 2016 after a promising 2015 season, Ferrari had fallen further behind Mercedes and even got beat by Red Bull.

Vettel had just 1 year left on his Ferrari contract and maybe that's one reason why Bottas only got a 1 year contract at Mercedes? Anyway in 2017 Ferrari built a great car and Vettel then signed another 3 year contract with Ferrari.


Assuming everything you've said is correct, doesn't the part in bold give the reason as to why he re-signed with Ferrari? What does that have to do with Hamilton??

How would signing for Ferrari when he had the chance to sign for Mercedes change what I said about Vettel preferring to compete against Hamilton from afar?


Because they are unrelated?? Perhaps when VET saw that Ferrari could compete with Merc and were getting closer, he decided to stay on and finish the project rather than leave - winning a title at Ferrari than elsewhere is more special for the drivers, especially someone like VET for whom it would be like following in the footsteps of his idol.

It's all conjecture, but you're being a tiny bit ridiculous to state this is because he didn't want to go up against Hamilton without an iota of even tangential evidence to back that up.

You'll get used to the last part


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:50 am 
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A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Curious to understand - what is your understanding of the second part based upon? I have read some rumours about VER not wanting to join Merc while HAM was there, but nothing at all about VET - where did you get that from?

I've been down here before and it's now hard to find the relevant articles but it was said that Vettel was in talks with Wolff at the end of the 2016 season shortly after Rosberg retired, both Ferrari and Vettel had a poor 2016 after a promising 2015 season, Ferrari had fallen further behind Mercedes and even got beat by Red Bull.

Vettel had just 1 year left on his Ferrari contract and maybe that's one reason why Bottas only got a 1 year contract at Mercedes? Anyway in 2017 Ferrari built a great car and Vettel then signed another 3 year contract with Ferrari.


Assuming everything you've said is correct, doesn't the part in bold give the reason as to why he re-signed with Ferrari? What does that have to do with Hamilton??

How would signing for Ferrari when he had the chance to sign for Mercedes change what I said about Vettel preferring to compete against Hamilton from afar?


Because they are unrelated?? Perhaps when VET saw that Ferrari could compete with Merc and were getting closer, he decided to stay on and finish the project rather than leave - winning a title at Ferrari than elsewhere is more special for the drivers, especially someone like VET for whom it would be like following in the footsteps of his idol.

It's all conjecture, but you're being a tiny bit ridiculous to state this is because he didn't want to go up against Hamilton without an iota of even tangential evidence to back that up.

I merely said that he chose to compete against Hamilton from afar, this comes from Hamilton who was informed by Wolf who thought it only fair that Hamilton should know that there had been talks, unfortunately I've looked in the past but I can no longer find the article.

This was not looking to have a dig at Vettel as you rightly said he would rather win a title with Ferrari than Mercedes, but in reply to Mercedes should sign x,y and z when 2 of the drivers have already declined.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I've been down here before and it's now hard to find the relevant articles but it was said that Vettel was in talks with Wolff at the end of the 2016 season shortly after Rosberg retired, both Ferrari and Vettel had a poor 2016 after a promising 2015 season, Ferrari had fallen further behind Mercedes and even got beat by Red Bull.

Vettel had just 1 year left on his Ferrari contract and maybe that's one reason why Bottas only got a 1 year contract at Mercedes? Anyway in 2017 Ferrari built a great car and Vettel then signed another 3 year contract with Ferrari.


Assuming everything you've said is correct, doesn't the part in bold give the reason as to why he re-signed with Ferrari? What does that have to do with Hamilton??

How would signing for Ferrari when he had the chance to sign for Mercedes change what I said about Vettel preferring to compete against Hamilton from afar?


Because they are unrelated?? Perhaps when VET saw that Ferrari could compete with Merc and were getting closer, he decided to stay on and finish the project rather than leave - winning a title at Ferrari than elsewhere is more special for the drivers, especially someone like VET for whom it would be like following in the footsteps of his idol.

It's all conjecture, but you're being a tiny bit ridiculous to state this is because he didn't want to go up against Hamilton without an iota of even tangential evidence to back that up.

You'll get used to the last part

Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Another article

https://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/n ... alks/65846

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:37 pm 
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Here Marko might just be being mischievous?

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/1050 ... erstappen/

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:08 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Is there a wider puzzle to the decision for the Bottas / Ocon decision?

Bottas is surely a short term decision but when it comes to long term, Mercedes are looking to Ocon, Russell etc. But we shouldn't even forget they showed interest in Verstappen & would want him to join Mercedes one day (2021). It now depends how strong Honda gets to convince Verstappen to stay on or move away to Mercedes. If he decides to do so, this atleast puts Ocon in a tight spot due to their spotted past.

No doubt there are many variables when it comes to the decision for 2020 but it's surely interesting. Maybe the decision won't be made public soon but the departing driver would be informed backstage in order to form a plan B or C even.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:27 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.

I think Ricciardo is simply seen as a driver slower than Verstappen and not worth replacing Bottas with or preferring in front of Ocon?

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2019: Currently 26th

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:52 am 
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kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.


There were reports in mid last year that Wolff balked at signing Ricciardo for this season because of the potential impact on team harmony

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 81f4fa77bf

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:13 am 
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No He is a mediocre driver at best and its clear the writing is on the wall fro RB he will return to williams with his tale behind is back.

He is not top team material driver. End of.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:32 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.


There were reports in mid last year that Wolff balked at signing Ricciardo for this season because of the potential impact on team harmony

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 81f4fa77bf

Fair enough I was unaware of that and shows perhaps how much he rates Ricciardo to block him, I don't really understand the team harmony part of it apart from seeing Ricciardo as a threat?

However apparently he's happy to have Ocon as a teammate which perhaps confirms what some of us think that Ocon would not be much of a step up on Bottas?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:59 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.


There were reports in mid last year that Wolff balked at signing Ricciardo for this season because of the potential impact on team harmony

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 81f4fa77bf



Interesting. This sounds like an excuse to me for resigning Bottas at that time. When has Ricciardo ever proven to be bad for team harmony?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:00 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.

I think Ricciardo is simply seen as a driver slower than Verstappen and not worth replacing Bottas with or preferring in front of Ocon?


Yeah that could be true.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:49 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.


There were reports in mid last year that Wolff balked at signing Ricciardo for this season because of the potential impact on team harmony

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 81f4fa77bf

Fair enough I was unaware of that and shows perhaps how much he rates Ricciardo to block him, I don't really understand the team harmony part of it apart from seeing Ricciardo as a threat?

However apparently he's happy to have Ocon as a teammate which perhaps confirms what some of us think that Ocon would not be much of a step up on Bottas?


That would be the report about another report that said the report it was basing its argument on follows 'unfounded rumours'. So basically, lets make up $%^£, someone will want to believe it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:12 am 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.


There were reports in mid last year that Wolff balked at signing Ricciardo for this season because of the potential impact on team harmony

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 81f4fa77bf

Fair enough I was unaware of that and shows perhaps how much he rates Ricciardo to block him, I don't really understand the team harmony part of it apart from seeing Ricciardo as a threat?

However apparently he's happy to have Ocon as a teammate which perhaps confirms what some of us think that Ocon would not be much of a step up on Bottas?


That would be the report about another report that said the report it was basing its argument on follows 'unfounded rumours'. So basically, lets make up $%^£, someone will want to believe it.

Fair enough I did notice after looking for articles that some ended up being total rubbish.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:25 pm 
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I like Bottas and think his contract should be extended. ............ He's been there about's with Hamilton and think it wrong that Ocon should sign for the Merc team. Interesting read about Ricciardo though as I love this guy and want him to win a championship in the future. Most funniest driver on the grid!...:-)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:42 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Frustratingly I can't find the article, the nearest I can find is an article from Andrew Benson who opinions that Mercedes were waiting on Vettel before re-signing Bottas, Bottas was signed just after 2 weeks later than Vettel re-signed for Ferrari.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41060743


This again just proves to me that Merc cares more about driver quality than team harmony. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bottas is not retained. I am quite surprised that Ricciardo has not been mentioned at all as a potential candidate. It had been reported he has an out clause in his renault contract but somehow it’s like Merc has forgotten about him. But Wolff seems very determined to get Ocon a seat so that may be playing a role in that too.


There were reports in mid last year that Wolff balked at signing Ricciardo for this season because of the potential impact on team harmony

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 81f4fa77bf

Fair enough I was unaware of that and shows perhaps how much he rates Ricciardo to block him, I don't really understand the team harmony part of it apart from seeing Ricciardo as a threat?

However apparently he's happy to have Ocon as a teammate which perhaps confirms what some of us think that Ocon would not be much of a step up on Bottas?


That would be the report about another report that said the report it was basing its argument on follows 'unfounded rumours'. So basically, lets make up $%^£, someone will want to believe it.


Or it could be the one that cites a direct quote from Wolff where he say's one of the reasons he resigned Bottas was because of his character, & his open, trusting & apolitical relationship with the team, including Hamilton.

Sounds like a harmony thing to me.

As for Ricciardo negatively affecting team harmony, I think the inference from the article was that it might not necessarily be Ricciardo's attitude that upsets the team dynamic but more so his driving ability.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:59 pm 
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I would like to see Russell vs Ocon in the Williams next season, the winner gets Bottas’ seat for 2021


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:26 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
I would like to see Russell vs Ocon in the Williams next season, the winner gets Bottas’ seat for 2021


:thumbup: on the basis I think Bottas will get retained I would be happy with this outcome.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:39 am 
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Johnson wrote:
I would like to see Russell vs Ocon in the Williams next season, the winner gets Bottas’ seat for 2021


Not possible as Williams won't house 2 Mercedes' drivers. It's strictly against it. No matter what anyone says, as per hierarchy (& experience), Ocon will get the seat before Russell. Mercedes has faith & belief in both driver's abilities.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:40 am 
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JN23 wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I would like to see Russell vs Ocon in the Williams next season, the winner gets Bottas’ seat for 2021


:thumbup: on the basis I think Bottas will get retained I would be happy with this outcome.


If that was the case, his contract would've been extended a month ago. The added delay is not looking in his favour though.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:12 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I would like to see Russell vs Ocon in the Williams next season, the winner gets Bottas’ seat for 2021


:thumbup: on the basis I think Bottas will get retained I would be happy with this outcome.


If that was the case, his contract would've been extended a month ago. The added delay is not looking in his favour though.


Could we not say the same about Ocon if there's any truth to the comments Rosberg & Carter made about their Merc "sources" assurances that Ocon was a dead cert to get the drive? That it was a done deal. If that was the case why hasn't that been announced?

There were rumours doing the rounds in Germany that Bottas & Merc had started negotiations & looked like the drive was his.

Maybe Merc are holding off on announcing anything until they've settled on the best deal for the driver that missed out & by making public their decision outside of the summer break they may have compromised the chances of the the driver that missed out getting the best seat available.

Maybe the August break is when most of the deals are done & it allows them time to concentrate fully on the driver that missed out.

Maybe they really haven't made a decision yet.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:44 am 
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Or the deals done and they are waiting for the non chosen driver to get sorted before making the announcement.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:19 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I would like to see Russell vs Ocon in the Williams next season, the winner gets Bottas’ seat for 2021


:thumbup: on the basis I think Bottas will get retained I would be happy with this outcome.


If that was the case, his contract would've been extended a month ago. The added delay is not looking in his favour though.


Could we not say the same about Ocon if there's any truth to the comments Rosberg & Carter made about their Merc "sources" assurances that Ocon was a dead cert to get the drive? That it was a done deal. If that was the case why hasn't that been announced?

There were rumours doing the rounds in Germany that Bottas & Merc had started negotiations & looked like the drive was his.

Maybe Merc are holding off on announcing anything until they've settled on the best deal for the driver that missed out & by making public their decision outside of the summer break they may have compromised the chances of the the driver that missed out getting the best seat available.

Maybe the August break is when most of the deals are done & it allows them time to concentrate fully on the driver that missed out.

Maybe they really haven't made a decision yet.


No doubt Mate it could be either situation but this time around, there will be options for the missed out driver which is still a positive thing!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:21 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Or the deals done and they are waiting for the non chosen driver to get sorted before making the announcement.


Could be. Hopefully in the next 1 & 1/2 weeks, some hint or some light is shed!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:44 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Or the deals done and they are waiting for the non chosen driver to get sorted before making the announcement.

Yeah I think the priority is to get the none chosen driver sorted out first.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:18 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Hamilton’s failure to overtake Verstappen in Suzuka was a much bigger moment in 2016 than most people appreciate. If he made that move stick, Rosberg would’ve been under far more pressure in the final four races of the season, as there would be no margin for error.


I don't see how it makes much difference. Rosberg needed 2-2-2-3 to win the title. Him needing 2-2-2-2 doesn't change much.

You're highlighting a 3 point swing in Japan when the race before a 28 point swing occured

Actually it changes a lot. Let’s not forget that Rosberg was driving in third place for a portion of the Brazil wet race (until RB put Max on Inters). If Rosberg didn’t have that extra margin for error, he would have been forced to push much harder in Brazil to keep up with Max and Lewis.

Also, would Rosberg be more likely to make a mistake in Abu Dhabi, if he knew that P3 wasn’t enough? It’s possible, the pressure on him would have been much higher. Again, it’s all a domino effect.

I reckon that if Lewis had made the move on Max stick in Suzuka, he’d have won the WDC. Nico would have folded somewhere, most likely either in a wet Brazil or Abu Dhabi.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:34 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Johnson wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Hamilton’s failure to overtake Verstappen in Suzuka was a much bigger moment in 2016 than most people appreciate. If he made that move stick, Rosberg would’ve been under far more pressure in the final four races of the season, as there would be no margin for error.


I don't see how it makes much difference. Rosberg needed 2-2-2-3 to win the title. Him needing 2-2-2-2 doesn't change much.

You're highlighting a 3 point swing in Japan when the race before a 28 point swing occured

Actually it changes a lot. Let’s not forget that Rosberg was driving in third place for a portion of the Brazil wet race (until RB put Max on Inters). If Rosberg didn’t have that extra margin for error, he would have been forced to push much harder in Brazil to keep up with Max and Lewis.

Also, would Rosberg be more likely to make a mistake in Abu Dhabi, if he knew that P3 wasn’t enough? It’s possible, the pressure on him would have been much higher. Again, it’s all a domino effect.

I reckon that if Lewis had made the move on Max stick in Suzuka, he’d have won the WDC. Nico would have folded somewhere, most likely either in a wet Brazil or Abu Dhabi.


This is all rather fanciful (imo). Back then, Verstappen was like a loose cannon, moving under braking, unpredicatable,uncompromising, hot headed. Had Hamilton persisted in trying to pass Verstappen, there was a high chance of a collison. It's no coincidence that the Verstappen rule was introduced immediately after Japan. Hamilton simply couldn't take that risk. If he DNF'd,any hope of the championship would be in tatters.

For me, reliability ( or lack of it in Hamiton's case) had the biggest single impact on the 2016 title fight.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:13 pm 
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Looks like Bottas will indeed stay at Mercedes & Ocon will be going over to Renault!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:14 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Looks like Bottas will indeed stay at Mercedes & Ocon will be going over to Renault!


Where did you read this?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:20 pm 
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If Autobild are correct that would be a good move for both drivers and a sensible if unexciting decision by Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:21 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Looks like Bottas will indeed stay at Mercedes & Ocon will be going over to Renault!


Where did you read this?


Here Mate:

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-transfer-news-15474089.html

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:10 pm 
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SR1 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Johnson wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Hamilton’s failure to overtake Verstappen in Suzuka was a much bigger moment in 2016 than most people appreciate. If he made that move stick, Rosberg would’ve been under far more pressure in the final four races of the season, as there would be no margin for error.


I don't see how it makes much difference. Rosberg needed 2-2-2-3 to win the title. Him needing 2-2-2-2 doesn't change much.

You're highlighting a 3 point swing in Japan when the race before a 28 point swing occured

Actually it changes a lot. Let’s not forget that Rosberg was driving in third place for a portion of the Brazil wet race (until RB put Max on Inters). If Rosberg didn’t have that extra margin for error, he would have been forced to push much harder in Brazil to keep up with Max and Lewis.

Also, would Rosberg be more likely to make a mistake in Abu Dhabi, if he knew that P3 wasn’t enough? It’s possible, the pressure on him would have been much higher. Again, it’s all a domino effect.

I reckon that if Lewis had made the move on Max stick in Suzuka, he’d have won the WDC. Nico would have folded somewhere, most likely either in a wet Brazil or Abu Dhabi.


This is all rather fanciful (imo). Back then, Verstappen was like a loose cannon, moving under braking, unpredicatable,uncompromising, hot headed. Had Hamilton persisted in trying to pass Verstappen, there was a high chance of a collison. It's no coincidence that the Verstappen rule was introduced immediately after Japan. Hamilton simply couldn't take that risk. If he DNF'd,any hope of the championship would be in tatters.

For me, reliability ( or lack of it in Hamiton's case) had the biggest single impact on the 2016 title fight.

I remember that now, Verstappen moved under braking for the chicane and Hamilton had to dive to the left and off the track to avoid crashing into the back of his car, Hamilton was given the choice of either finish the race or try to pass me.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:12 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Looks like Bottas will indeed stay at Mercedes & Ocon will be going over to Renault!


Where did you read this?


Here Mate:

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-transfer-news-15474089.html

So then I would be guessing the Hulk to Haas to replace Grosjean?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:17 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Looks like Bottas will indeed stay at Mercedes & Ocon will be going over to Renault!


Where did you read this?


Here Mate:

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-transfer-news-15474089.html

So then I would be guessing the Hulk to Haas to replace Grosjean?


That will make sense, yes. Ocon versus DannyRic will be exciting.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:49 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Looks like Bottas will indeed stay at Mercedes & Ocon will be going over to Renault!


Where did you read this?


Here Mate:

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-transfer-news-15474089.html

So then I would be guessing the Hulk to Haas to replace Grosjean?

That will make sense, yes. Ocon versus DannyRic will be exciting.

I'm pretty confident RIC will/would beat him, thus ending any hopes Ocon has of a Mercedes drive.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

Where did you read this?


Here Mate:

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-transfer-news-15474089.html

So then I would be guessing the Hulk to Haas to replace Grosjean?

That will make sense, yes. Ocon versus DannyRic will be exciting.

I'm pretty confident RIC will/would beat him, thus ending any hopes Ocon has of a Mercedes drive.


I wouldn't be so confident. Ricciardo is only a little bit better than Hulk. Perez was also slightly better than Hulk and Ocon was at least as good as Perez.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:57 pm 
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This place does crack me up at times.......

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:19 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Johnson wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Hamilton’s failure to overtake Verstappen in Suzuka was a much bigger moment in 2016 than most people appreciate. If he made that move stick, Rosberg would’ve been under far more pressure in the final four races of the season, as there would be no margin for error.


I don't see how it makes much difference. Rosberg needed 2-2-2-3 to win the title. Him needing 2-2-2-2 doesn't change much.

You're highlighting a 3 point swing in Japan when the race before a 28 point swing occured

Actually it changes a lot. Let’s not forget that Rosberg was driving in third place for a portion of the Brazil wet race (until RB put Max on Inters). If Rosberg didn’t have that extra margin for error, he would have been forced to push much harder in Brazil to keep up with Max and Lewis.

Also, would Rosberg be more likely to make a mistake in Abu Dhabi, if he knew that P3 wasn’t enough? It’s possible, the pressure on him would have been much higher. Again, it’s all a domino effect.

I reckon that if Lewis had made the move on Max stick in Suzuka, he’d have won the WDC. Nico would have folded somewhere, most likely either in a wet Brazil or Abu Dhabi.


Like I said, you are highlighting a 3 point swing, when a 28 point swing occured the race before. Seems like a none starter of an argument. The fact is Rosberg did score 2-2-2-2 making Hamiltons Japan result completely irrevelant.

Highlighting a 3 point swing when a near 50-70 point swing occured due to reliability is a bit of a none starter, especially when that 3 point swing had no influence on the title.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:42 pm 
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Wow is this thread just a month old and has 9 pages? Seems like the possibility of a driver moving team is more interesting to a lot than a race thread :D


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