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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:40 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


I think what killed Red Bull was that no-one saw it coming, they didn't have time to react.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:40 pm 
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Ham did really well, congrats to him, as well as Max, who again put a good showing. Someone had to win, Ham got it right. In team department, RBR learned a valuable lesson, but Mercedes' car seemed to have an edge over RBR's car anyway. Ferrari lost it again against big ones, Vettel even got a 6 seconds pitstop, but managed yet again to beat Leclerc. Well done to him. Magnussen held over Ricciardo, and will probably keep the seat. Bottas, well that was unfortunate, but seems like he wanted to avoid crash with a teammate at all cost. But if Ocon comes and can not keep it up with big boys like Gasly, then Mercedes could loose the Constructors championship.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Good to see you appreciate a great F1 Grand Prix F1 Racer, Red Bull were out though and out driven. Question is are they just good on the circuits that suit or have the overtaken Ferrari proper.

Ferrari were awful, out of touch after 5 laps, is their performance circuit related? In the results the car behind was a McLaren a long way back but who would have thought that?

Did Leclerc just give up or was he told to let SV through I wonder, seemed an odd pass with a podium at stake?


Hello. :-)

Yes, it was a very good race, I really enjoyed it. It was a bad result for the championship fight, but hey-ho, at least we can look forward to nine individual races where Max and Lewis may fight again.

Red Bull in the hands of Max have overtaken Ferrari properly now. However what is the true pace of the RB? Somewhere halfway between PG and MW's pace I suspect, (as fast as Eddie Irvine can drive it was the old analogy!) That sort of pace would put them about equal with Ferrari.

I thought Leclerc's tyres were shot and there is no point crashing into your teammate when you are both not in any sort of championship fight.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:41 pm 
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One more thing: how many times Mercedes faked the pit stop today? I guess there is a rule for it, but haven't seen that it is applied, neither today, nor in the past.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:42 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
JN23 wrote:

Speaking of Sainz he was won F1.5 four times in the last eight races.


Sorry but what does this mean?


If you exclude the top three teams, he's been the highest finisher.

F1.5 because the rest are so far behind the top three teams (excluding Gasly)

Edit: although, maybe Vettel won F1.5 today because he Ferrari were so far behind :twisted:


Oh OK I get it, you should compose a separate championship table, it would be both fun nd interesting at the same time. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
One more thing: how many times Mercedes faked the pit stop today? I guess there is a rule for it, but haven't seen that it is applied, neither today, nor in the past.


I believe you can 'change your mind'.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
One more thing: how many times Mercedes faked the pit stop today? I guess there is a rule for it, but haven't seen that it is applied, neither today, nor in the past.


Apparently it's allowed, heard that in commentary.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:46 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.

Yes exactly, it wasn't an option for Red Bull. Pitting Verstappen would have been madness

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:48 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
One more thing: how many times Mercedes faked the pit stop today? I guess there is a rule for it, but haven't seen that it is applied, neither today, nor in the past.


Apparently it's allowed, heard that in commentary.

Brundle always repeats that it's not allowed. I recall it being outlawed back in the Schumi days. But they don't seem to care about it anymore so I don't know why Brundle bothers bringing it up

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:49 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
JN23 wrote:

Speaking of Sainz he was won F1.5 four times in the last eight races.


Sorry but what does this mean?


If you exclude the top three teams, he's been the highest finisher.

F1.5 because the rest are so far behind the top three teams (excluding Gasly)

Edit: although, maybe Vettel won F1.5 today because he Ferrari were so far behind :twisted:


Thats cold :lol:


Last edited by lucifers on Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:52 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Good to see you appreciate a great F1 Grand Prix F1 Racer, Red Bull were out though and out driven. Question is are they just good on the circuits that suit or have the overtaken Ferrari proper.

Ferrari were awful, out of touch after 5 laps, is their performance circuit related? In the results the car behind was a McLaren a long way back but who would have thought that?

Did Leclerc just give up or was he told to let SV through I wonder, seemed an odd pass with a podium at stake?

Ferrari were on course for pole just last week. I think it's track specific

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:52 pm 
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Everytime Hamilton has a bad race he's always on it the next weekend.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Can people please stop giving credit to Mercedes' decision to pit Hamilton into open track behind him.

It was a shot to nothing, if it didn't work out then he would still finish 2nd anyway, and it's no different than when teams have been pitting drivers from 5th or 6th on gone 'fastest lap hunting' earlier in the year.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:57 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Good to see you appreciate a great F1 Grand Prix F1 Racer, Red Bull were out though and out driven. Question is are they just good on the circuits that suit or have the overtaken Ferrari proper.

Ferrari were awful, out of touch after 5 laps, is their performance circuit related? In the results the car behind was a McLaren a long way back but who would have thought that?

Did Leclerc just give up or was he told to let SV through I wonder, seemed an odd pass with a podium at stake?

Ferrari were on course for pole just last week. I think it's track specific


Oh of course. With their straight line speed, Ferrari's pace is very track-specific, but also remember that MV is performing Schumacher and Senna-esque miracles in Red Bull car, so how fast is the Red Bull really? At the same time Gasly is performing the opposite to miracles in that car and the Red Bull is not as slow as he is making it seem.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:57 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Good to see you appreciate a great F1 Grand Prix F1 Racer, Red Bull were out though and out driven. Question is are they just good on the circuits that suit or have the overtaken Ferrari proper.

Ferrari were awful, out of touch after 5 laps, is their performance circuit related? In the results the car behind was a McLaren a long way back but who would have thought that?

Did Leclerc just give up or was he told to let SV through I wonder, seemed an odd pass with a podium at stake?


Hello. :-)

Yes, it was a very good race, I really enjoyed it. It was a bad result for the championship fight, but hey-ho, at least we can look forward to nine individual races where Max and Lewis may fight again.

Red Bull in the hands of Max have overtaken Ferrari properly now. However what is the true pace of the RB? Somewhere halfway between PG and MW's pace I suspect, (as fast as Eddie Irvine can drive it was the old analogy!) That sort of pace would put them about equal with Ferrari.

I thought Leclerc's tyres were shot and there is no point crashing into your teammate when you are both not in any sort of championship fight.


I sort of agree, but isn't the Red Bull advantage in corners and Ferrari's in straights? Or the Honda engine is now eating into the speed advantage. I think the break will be interesting, development wise I think RB are better suited to improve, Ferrari just seem to have lost their way. Thing is what have Mercedes got? 2nd half of the season they usually pull it out of the bag, always assuming that race days are not too hot.

So race wins are down to track, temperature and driver, start next season tomorrow and it could well be a close run thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:02 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
One more thing: how many times Mercedes faked the pit stop today? I guess there is a rule for it, but haven't seen that it is applied, neither today, nor in the past.

Because you would need to show it was probably a fake call. If Ham had pitted or not it would have seemed logical at the time, as conflicting information was coming on how others were doing on differing tyres. Plus we know Ham has a tendency just to ignore a call and do an extra lap or two.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:06 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


Had Mercedes kept Lewis out, which was indeed a possiblity, then the result would be no different that what it is now.

Emperor Lewis + softer tire + new tire by about 25 laps + much faster car. This combination was ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS going to catch up and overtake Max.It was 20 odd laps and a 20 second pitstop. Did someone really think a second/lap was not possible? Who thought so, I need to see that man. Had it been Slowpoke Bottas instead of Lewis, sure, Max would have had a chance. But not against Lewis, as we saw. People are taking out of the equation that it was Lewis behind the wheel. Red Bull's only chance was to pit Max and force Mercedes' hand. Had that not forced Mercedes, then just pray Max would catch up to Lewis. About a 5% chance of it happening with Lewis' tires being dead toward the end.

Where Red Bull got it all wrong is when they thought they had a chance against Lewis+Merc on new, softer tires. They thought second a lap wasn't possible. C'MON.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:07 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Can people please stop giving credit to Mercedes' decision to pit Hamilton into open track behind him.

It was a shot to nothing, if it didn't work out then he would still finish 2nd anyway, and it's no different than when teams have been pitting drivers from 5th or 6th on gone 'fastest lap hunting' earlier in the year.


No. It was a great call, and a risky one too. Chances are Lewis would have got Max near the end anyway as his hard tyres were 6 laps younger than Max's.

It wasn't a shot to nothing - if Lewis hadn't managed to catch Max up again then he wouldn't have had a chance of a last few laps challenge.

Congrats to the top 2 for keeping it clean.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:12 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Emperor Lewis + softer tire + new tire by about 25 laps + much faster car. This combination was ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS going to catch up and overtake Max.

There was absolutely no way of knowing that's how it would play out at the time. If you trawl back through the number of times it has been attempted throughout the Pirelli era you'll definitely find more cases where the pursuit didn't work out, or the driver closed up but never had the chance to overtake. Track position is king for a reason

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:14 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


If they pitted Verstappen, you would be the first one to say what a ridiculous decision it was to throw away the lead - as Hamilton cruised to a relatively comfortable win by staying out, leading Max home by 6-7 seconds.

Hamilton was just quicker, he needed clean air to show it. They gave him clean air after his first stop and he took 6 seconds out of Verstappen in 3 laps. They gave him clean air at the end and he closed 20 seconds. Verstappen had a 2.2 second lead at the end of the first lap, he never once got further than that away and Hamilton closed it when he wanted.

Not much you can do about a faster package.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:19 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


Had Mercedes kept Lewis out, which was indeed a possiblity, then the result would be no different that what it is now.

Emperor Lewis + softer tire + new tire by about 25 laps + much faster car. This combination was ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS going to catch up and overtake Max.It was 20 odd laps and a 20 second pitstop. Did someone really think a second/lap was not possible? Who thought so, I need to see that man. Had it been Slowpoke Bottas instead of Lewis, sure, Max would have had a chance. But not against Lewis, as we saw. People are taking out of the equation that it was Lewis behind the wheel. Red Bull's only chance was to pit Max and force Mercedes' hand. Had that not forced Mercedes, then just pray Max would catch up to Lewis. About a 5% chance of it happening with Lewis' tires being dead toward the end.

Where Red Bull got it all wrong is when they thought they had a chance against Lewis+Merc on new, softer tires. They thought second a lap wasn't possible. C'MON.


So you are saying Red Bull messed up but if they did what you propose, you yourself say it would have only given them a 5% chance to win. So Lewis was going to win this with 95% certainty...

Max also would have won the race if a VSC or SC came out at any point between laps 60-70.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:26 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


If they pitted Verstappen, you would be the first one to say what a ridiculous decision it was to throw away the lead - as Hamilton cruised to a relatively comfortable win by staying out, leading Max home by 6-7 seconds.

Hamilton was just quicker, he needed clean air to show it. They gave him clean air after his first stop and he took 6 seconds out of Verstappen in 3 laps. They gave him clean air at the end and he closed 20 seconds. Verstappen had a 2.2 second lead at the end of the first lap, he never once got further than that away and Hamilton closed it when he wanted.

Not much you can do about a faster package.


Hamilton in the Merc was the quickest car on track all race.

Verstappens goose was effectively cooked as soon as Hamilton pitted with 20 odd laps to go. At that point their hands were tied.

If they pitted Verstappen next lap & he came out behind Hamilton, the RB simply didn't have the race pace to challenge Merc from behind. Their only hope was to maintain track position & pray for a safety car, a Hamilton error or that the tyres could hold out. Of course neither of those things happened.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:29 pm 
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I think it was a clever piece of man management from the pit wall.

Hamilton was all over Verstappen just after he pitted with fresher tyres, but LH seemed a bit lost for a solution and was looking for help, they could have left him out there and then he could have had a go on to have at the end marginally better tyres, say about 5-6 laps fresher. Problem was he possibly couldn't have got by MV as had been proven earlier.
By pitting him Hamilton had a new task, close a 20 second gap knowing that if he could do that the tyre differential at the end would have been significantly greater making the pass easier and cleaner.

So instead of a 'wait and see strategy' it was a 'go and get it strategy'. That suits Hamiltons driving style. Clever team work.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:33 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
One more thing: how many times Mercedes faked the pit stop today? I guess there is a rule for it, but haven't seen that it is applied, neither today, nor in the past.


Mercedes has been faking pitstops all through the hybrid era, nothing new.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:37 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


Had Mercedes kept Lewis out, which was indeed a possiblity, then the result would be no different that what it is now.

Emperor Lewis + softer tire + new tire by about 25 laps + much faster car. This combination was ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS going to catch up and overtake Max.It was 20 odd laps and a 20 second pitstop. Did someone really think a second/lap was not possible? Who thought so, I need to see that man. Had it been Slowpoke Bottas instead of Lewis, sure, Max would have had a chance. But not against Lewis, as we saw. People are taking out of the equation that it was Lewis behind the wheel. Red Bull's only chance was to pit Max and force Mercedes' hand. Had that not forced Mercedes, then just pray Max would catch up to Lewis. About a 5% chance of it happening with Lewis' tires being dead toward the end.

Where Red Bull got it all wrong is when they thought they had a chance against Lewis+Merc on new, softer tires. They thought second a lap wasn't possible. C'MON.


So you are saying Red Bull messed up but if they did what you propose, you yourself say it would have only given them a 5% chance to win. So Lewis was going to win this with 95% certainty...

Max also would have won the race if a VSC or SC came out at any point between laps 60-70.


What I am saying is, Red Bull was definitely going to lose the race by not pitting. Events were going to transpire they way they did today.

That 5%, was Max's chance of overtaking Lewis on track. But that doesn't count the possibility of Lewis also making a stop. Max setting a few purples after pitting would have forced Mercedes' hand. I only stated that had Mercedes NOT followed, Max still had SOME chance of winning. But by not pitting it was always a loss. Or a win by a VSC lottery, but you can't make a strategy where your win is only possible through a SC. That would be nonsense.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Red Bull were cowards today, and paid for their cowardice. Plain and simple. Full marks to Mercedes and stunning laps by Lewis, my driver of the day by a mile. Close second is Max for his defense against Lewis around lap 45-47.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
I think it was a clever piece of man management from the pit wall.

Hamilton was all over Verstappen just after he pitted with fresher tyres, but LH seemed a bit lost for a solution and was looking for help, they could have left him out there and then he could have had a go on to have at the end marginally better tyres, say about 5-6 laps fresher. Problem was he possibly couldn't have got by MV as had been proven earlier.
By pitting him Hamilton had a new task, close a 20 second gap knowing that if he could do that the tyre differential at the end would have been significantly greater making the pass easier and cleaner.

So instead of a 'wait and see strategy' it was a 'go and get it strategy'. That suits Hamiltons driving style. Clever team work.


Imagine having that kind of faith in your driver. We will take a risk, and you have to deliver those laps. Go and do it. And did he did. Great job Lewis.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:42 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


I think what killed Red Bull was that no-one saw it coming, they didn't have time to react.

Hamilton was quicker and had better tyre life, there was nothing that Red Bull could have done, if they had pitted Verstappen first it simply wouldn't have played out for him like it did for Hamilton, as much as anything the faster drive/car won.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:42 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Johnson wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


Had Mercedes kept Lewis out, which was indeed a possiblity, then the result would be no different that what it is now.

Emperor Lewis + softer tire + new tire by about 25 laps + much faster car. This combination was ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS going to catch up and overtake Max.It was 20 odd laps and a 20 second pitstop. Did someone really think a second/lap was not possible? Who thought so, I need to see that man. Had it been Slowpoke Bottas instead of Lewis, sure, Max would have had a chance. But not against Lewis, as we saw. People are taking out of the equation that it was Lewis behind the wheel. Red Bull's only chance was to pit Max and force Mercedes' hand. Had that not forced Mercedes, then just pray Max would catch up to Lewis. About a 5% chance of it happening with Lewis' tires being dead toward the end.

Where Red Bull got it all wrong is when they thought they had a chance against Lewis+Merc on new, softer tires. They thought second a lap wasn't possible. C'MON.


So you are saying Red Bull messed up but if they did what you propose, you yourself say it would have only given them a 5% chance to win. So Lewis was going to win this with 95% certainty...

Max also would have won the race if a VSC or SC came out at any point between laps 60-70.


What I am saying is, Red Bull was definitely going to lose the race by not pitting. Events were going to transpire they way they did today.

That 5%, was Max's chance of overtaking Lewis on track. But that doesn't count the possibility of Lewis also making a stop. Max setting a few purples after pitting would have forced Mercedes' hand. I only stated that had Mercedes NOT followed, Max still had SOME chance of winning. But by not pitting it was always a loss. Or a win by a VSC lottery, but you can't make a strategy where your win is only possible through a SC. That would be nonsense.


If Verstappen pitted first the chances of Hamilton also pitting is 0%.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


I think what killed Red Bull was that no-one saw it coming, they didn't have time to react.

Hamilton was quicker and had better tyre life, there was nothing that Red Bull could have done, if they had pitted Verstappen first it simply wouldn't have played out for him like it did for Hamilton, as much as anything the faster drive/car won.


No one saw it coming? I was on my sofa saying they should do it about 15-20 minutes before they did. Either 25 lap stint on mediums or 20 lap stint on soft I wanted to see... thats one man on his sofa. Red Bull knew Mercedes might try it but they had 0 moves they could make to counter it.

Red Bull pit first? Mercedes stay out and win
Mercedes pit first? Mercedes catch and win


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Good_Year wrote:
Everytime Hamilton has a bad race he's always on it the next weekend.

He's always been like that, he never dwells on such things.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


I think what killed Red Bull was that no-one saw it coming, they didn't have time to react.

Hamilton was quicker and had better tyre life, there was nothing that Red Bull could have done, if they had pitted Verstappen first it simply wouldn't have played out for him like it did for Hamilton, as much as anything the faster drive/car won.


No one saw it coming? I was on my sofa saying they should do it about 15-20 minutes before they did. Either 25 lap stint on mediums or 20 lap stint on soft I wanted to see... thats one man on his sofa. Red Bull knew Mercedes might try it but they had 0 moves they could make to counter it.

I'll be honest, I thought the exact opposite of you at the time. I thought Mercedes had thrown away a race win opportunity when they did it as Hamilton needed over a second lap, every lap until the end and I didn't think that was sustainable until the end. As it turns out, so did Mercedes. They thought after 5 laps that Hamilton had no chance to catch Max, but decided to tell Hamilton he would catch him right at the end because they had nothing to lose (this is what Toto said to Sky after the race)

However, I actually think Hamilton had Max beaten either way, and while what unfolded ended up giving us a dramatic final 15 laps as we saw Lewis slowly reel Max in, I think I would have rather seen Hamilton pass Max on the same strategy. As it turns out, it was Hamilton's pressure on Max that made the win possible. Chandok explained Hamilton's pressure at the start forced Red Bull into stopping early, Hamilton's decision to immediately cut the 6 seconds to 1 second after the pitstop forced Max to take out even more life from his tyres at the start of the stint and this meant they started to fall off of the cliff at lap 64. Had Max not been under pressure he would have stopped later for the hards and then would have had the life to manage to the end. He stopped 6 laps before Hamilton, and his tyre life ran out 6 laps before the end...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:52 pm 
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shay550 wrote:
Some weekends it’s like Lewis and Max are driving completely different cars to their teammates.


The class of the field, no doubt.


Max's attitude today was exemplary in the throes of the race and in defeat. This is a man who is ready and given equal machinery has what it takes to take on Lewis, win or lose.


Thoroughly impressed with Max's comportment today.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:55 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Hamilton's decision to immediately cut the 6 seconds to 1 second after the pitstop forced Max to take out even more life from his tyres at the start of the stint and this meant they started to fall off of the cliff at lap 64. Had Max not been under pressure he would have stopped later for the hards and then would have had the life to manage to the end. He stopped 6 laps before Hamilton, and his tyre life ran out 6 laps before the end...[/color]


I'm still wondering how the hell he managed that so quickly.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
JN23 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Red Bull completely dropped the ball today with strategy. They had to pit before Lewis and just got complacent. Shameful.

Drive of the day from Lewis on the other hand. Those quali laps were mighty. He delivered when asked. Very Schumacher-esque.


Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


I think what killed Red Bull was that no-one saw it coming, they didn't have time to react.

Hamilton was quicker and had better tyre life, there was nothing that Red Bull could have done, if they had pitted Verstappen first it simply wouldn't have played out for him like it did for Hamilton, as much as anything the faster drive/car won.


No one saw it coming? I was on my sofa saying they should do it about 15-20 minutes before they did. Either 25 lap stint on mediums or 20 lap stint on soft I wanted to see... thats one man on his sofa. Red Bull knew Mercedes might try it but they had 0 moves they could make to counter it.

Red Bull pit first? Mercedes stay out and win
Mercedes pit first? Mercedes catch and win

Indeed Red Bull did nothing wrong plus they couldn't know that Verstappen's tyres would not last.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:18 pm 
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Where are all the people who were complaining about F1 being in a "crisis"? Honestly you would be hard pressed to find a season at any point in F1 history with a string of 4 races as exciting as the last 4 have been. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all efforts to improve the sport but I think we can't let the whingers and complainers drown out the happy fans.

F1 has been box office of late and there is now an ever-growing story about Hamilton vs. Verstappen. Almost all see Max as the heir apparent to Lewis and the question is; when will he and Lewis go toe to toe for the championship. Well today we got a bit of a sneak preview. This was a gripping race and I think there were a lot of elements at play here. I think Lewis getting by Valteri at the start was probably his most important move of the day. That enabled him to focus on beating Max the whole day rather than spending a big chunk of the race trying to get by Valteri.

It's easy to blame Red Bull for not getting the strategy right but they had no defense against what Mercedes did. The only thing they could have done was to pit first but that would have meant Lewis staying out on the Hards and honestly the tires on his Merc were lasting so I don't know if that would have been a winning strategy for Max. No Mercedes had a golden opportunity there and the strategists saw it. As soon as they pit Lewis he was outside of the window where Red Bull could have pit and maintained the lead. They basically trapped Red Bull and I think Max did his best to leg out that stint but the tires gave up before the end and he was a sitting duck.

Well played by Mercedes and a great drive by Hamilton. The pass at the end was basically a foregone conclusion with their pace difference at that time but I really enjoyed that tussle between Hamilton and Verstappen early in the second stint. Lewis always has tremendous pace on the hard tire compound and he was absolutely on it coming out of the pits. Max held his nerve well there. There is definitely an electricity to this matchup when they are out there on track wheel to wheel. Hopefully we will get more of that this year.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:20 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Merc would have kept Lewis out then and taken P1 with six laps newer tires. Horner said on Sky it would have been a massive call to pit Verstappen for a second stop from the lead.


I think what killed Red Bull was that no-one saw it coming, they didn't have time to react.

Hamilton was quicker and had better tyre life, there was nothing that Red Bull could have done, if they had pitted Verstappen first it simply wouldn't have played out for him like it did for Hamilton, as much as anything the faster drive/car won.


No one saw it coming? I was on my sofa saying they should do it about 15-20 minutes before they did. Either 25 lap stint on mediums or 20 lap stint on soft I wanted to see... thats one man on his sofa. Red Bull knew Mercedes might try it but they had 0 moves they could make to counter it.

I'll be honest, I thought the exact opposite of you at the time. I thought Mercedes had thrown away a race win opportunity when they did it as Hamilton needed over a second lap, every lap until the end and I didn't think that was sustainable until the end. As it turns out, so did Mercedes. They thought after 5 laps that Hamilton had no chance to catch Max, but decided to tell Hamilton he would catch him right at the end because they had nothing to lose (this is what Toto said to Sky after the race)

However, I actually think Hamilton had Max beaten either way, and while what unfolded ended up giving us a dramatic final 15 laps as we saw Lewis slowly reel Max in, I think I would have rather seen Hamilton pass Max on the same strategy. As it turns out, it was Hamilton's pressure on Max that made the win possible. Chandok explained Hamilton's pressure at the start forced Red Bull into stopping early, Hamilton's decision to immediately cut the 6 seconds to 1 second after the pitstop forced Max to take out even more life from his tyres at the start of the stint and this meant they started to fall off of the cliff at lap 64. Had Max not been under pressure he would have stopped later for the hards and then would have had the life to manage to the end. He stopped 6 laps before Hamilton, and his tyre life ran out 6 laps before the end...

I think this also shows how important it was for Hamilton to get passed Bottas on the opening lap, without that happening Mercedes would not have won the race because I don't believe that Bottas could have put Verstappen under that level of pressure?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:23 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Hamilton's decision to immediately cut the 6 seconds to 1 second after the pitstop forced Max to take out even more life from his tyres at the start of the stint and this meant they started to fall off of the cliff at lap 64. Had Max not been under pressure he would have stopped later for the hards and then would have had the life to manage to the end. He stopped 6 laps before Hamilton, and his tyre life ran out 6 laps before the end...[/color]


I'm still wondering how the hell he managed that so quickly.

Verstappen was managing his tyres up to the point were Hamilton caught him and said I'm not going to allow you to do that.

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:34 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
pokerman wrote:

No one saw it coming? I was on my sofa saying they should do it about 15-20 minutes before they did. Either 25 lap stint on mediums or 20 lap stint on soft I wanted to see... thats one man on his sofa. Red Bull knew Mercedes might try it but they had 0 moves they could make to counter it.

I'll be honest, I thought the exact opposite of you at the time. I thought Mercedes had thrown away a race win opportunity when they did it as Hamilton needed over a second lap, every lap until the end and I didn't think that was sustainable until the end. As it turns out, so did Mercedes. They thought after 5 laps that Hamilton had no chance to catch Max, but decided to tell Hamilton he would catch him right at the end because they had nothing to lose (this is what Toto said to Sky after the race)

However, I actually think Hamilton had Max beaten either way, and while what unfolded ended up giving us a dramatic final 15 laps as we saw Lewis slowly reel Max in, I think I would have rather seen Hamilton pass Max on the same strategy. As it turns out, it was Hamilton's pressure on Max that made the win possible. Chandok explained Hamilton's pressure at the start forced Red Bull into stopping early, Hamilton's decision to immediately cut the 6 seconds to 1 second after the pitstop forced Max to take out even more life from his tyres at the start of the stint and this meant they started to fall off of the cliff at lap 64. Had Max not been under pressure he would have stopped later for the hards and then would have had the life to manage to the end. He stopped 6 laps before Hamilton, and his tyre life ran out 6 laps before the end...

I think this also shows how important it was for Hamilton to get passed Bottas on the opening lap, without that happening Mercedes would not have won the race because I don't believe that Bottas could have put Verstappen under that level of pressure?


We also didn't get to see if Mercedes would have asked VB to move over and whether Mercedes saw MV as a WDC threat to LH at this point.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
I'm still wondering how the hell he managed that so quickly.


It caught me by surprise that it was as if he took a short cut somewhere!

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