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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:04 pm 
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It was also good race from Vettel. He lost some time in the pits but still was able to make up for it. Ferrari 1min behind Mercedes though. SPA and Monza should suit Ferrari car but apart from that I think RBRH has the advantage. Kimi also did a good race. Another shocker for Renault and Gasly. Albon was able to finish ahead of Renault and Sainz ahead of Gasly :?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:14 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
We also didn't get to see if Mercedes would have asked VB to move over and whether Mercedes saw MV as a WDC threat to LH at this point.

No and with that in mind it's fast getting to the point were if Verstappen continues to be a threat then Mercedes have to think about once again relegating Bottas to a #2 role?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:16 pm 
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It was interesting that Bottas did not take part in the Mercedes victory celebrations, did he get issued his P45?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:03 pm 
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What Merc did with the decision to pit Lewis shows something very important.
They have absolute faith in the fact they have the best driver and possibly the only one that could do what he did.
They pitted him and gave him cart-blanche for full hammertime and he delivered.
He would have probably overtaken MV anyway, if they hadn't pitted, he was closing in on him, but would be a close go and would be less predictable if RB had pitted before them.
That's why currently noone can beat Merc, they have great car and the best driver. And this track is not the best one for overtaking, such strong faith in Lewis and he showed why.
Great race.


Last edited by Aspar on Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:13 pm 
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Aspar wrote:
What Merc did with the decision to pit Lewis shows something very important.
They have absolute faith in the fact they have the best driver and possibly the only one that could do what he did.
They pitted him and gave him cart-blanche for full hammertime and he delivered.
He would have probably overtaken MW anyway, if they hadn't pitted, he was closing in on him, but would be a close go and would be less predictable if RB had pitted before them.
That's why currently noone can beat Merc, they have great car and the best driver. And this track is not the best one for overtaking, such strong faith in Lewis and he showed why.
Great race.


Yeah, plus his great pace over VB at Silverstone too. He has been in another league to VB in Bahrain, Canada, France, Britain and Hungary so almost half the races he destroys Bottas. Even some of the other races where Bottas finishes slightly behind him, this could be Lewis managing the gap to preserve engine life, so he potentially could have been in another league to Bottas in China, Spain and maybe even Monaco if he wasn't forced to drive extra slow due to the strategy blunder.

It's funny when some people were imagining some kind of title fight between LH and VB after a few races.

Rosberg is better than VB, and even he needed extreme luck to beat LH in 2016. I would say that outside of insane bad luck of the kind that we have yet to see, then it is near on impossible for VB to beat LH over a season. Like Toto says, he is the perfect wingman.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Was a good battle, fun to watch, if Max's tyres could have held on a bit better to give him a fighting chance at defending it could have been epic.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
It was interesting that Bottas did not take part in the Mercedes victory celebrations, did he get issued his P45?


If its a win and the other guy is off the podium they sometimes miss the photo op. Think they have both done it before.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:58 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It was interesting that Bottas did not take part in the Mercedes victory celebrations, did he get issued his P45?


If its a win and the other guy is off the podium they sometimes miss the photo op. Think they have both done it before.


Why do they sometimes miss it? Is it because the position of the other car when off the podium, (on this occasion 8th), is not deemed worthy of being seen as a success and therefore not worth celebrating? And therefore the way to show or demonstrate this is to exclude the non-podium driver from procedings?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:17 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It was interesting that Bottas did not take part in the Mercedes victory celebrations, did he get issued his P45?


If its a win and the other guy is off the podium they sometimes miss the photo op. Think they have both done it before.

I'm not sure that's true, Bottas tends to be there regardless.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:10 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It was interesting that Bottas did not take part in the Mercedes victory celebrations, did he get issued his P45?


If its a win and the other guy is off the podium they sometimes miss the photo op. Think they have both done it before.


Why do they sometimes miss it? Is it because the position of the other car when off the podium, (on this occasion 8th), is not deemed worthy of being seen as a success and therefore not worth celebrating? And therefore the way to show or demonstrate this is to exclude the non-podium driver from procedings?




https://www.15minutenews.com/article/12 ... op-at-spa/

That's the first one I came across from 2017. And I think they can chose to attend.

And another

https://www.alamy.com/baku-azerbaijan-2 ... 85615.html


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:26 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Was a good battle, fun to watch, if Max's tyres could have held on a bit better to give him a fighting chance at defending it could have been epic.


If Christian Horner had pitted Max on the lap after Lewis pitted then Lewis would have to get around Max on equal tires. That, I think would have been an epic battle. Lewis was quicker than Max all day but still had trouble getting around him.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:17 am 
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Peter Windsor has a very good take on today's race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHnospe_pQ

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:53 am 
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I missed the last 10 or so laps last night. Did Lewis end up giving the strategist some kudos for the decision to pit, after telling him how much he doubted the strategy?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:48 am 
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Charles LeBrad wrote:
I missed the last 10 or so laps last night. Did Lewis end up giving the strategist some kudos for the decision to pit, after telling him how much he doubted the strategy?

Yes, he did.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:42 am 
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Not to be too controversial, but...

In Australia, Leclerc ended up catching Vettel at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, but was told not to pass.
In Hungary, Vettel ended up catching Leclerc at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, and was allowed to pass.

What exactly is different between the two situations?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:43 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Not to be too controversial, but...

In Australia, Leclerc ended up catching Vettel at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, but was told not to pass.
In Hungary, Vettel ended up catching Leclerc at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, and was allowed to pass.

What exactly is different between the two situations?
One of them is at a point in the year where it's clear that they are not going to win the championship. The other was the first race of the season.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:36 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Was a good battle, fun to watch, if Max's tyres could have held on a bit better to give him a fighting chance at defending it could have been epic.


If Christian Horner had pitted Max on the lap after Lewis pitted then Lewis would have to get around Max on equal tires. That, I think would have been an epic battle. Lewis was quicker than Max all day but still had trouble getting around him.


If that had happened then Verstappen would have had equal tyres but would have lost track position, we saw that however good you were passing was very very difficult. Hamilton would have won.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:43 am 
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Charles LeBrad wrote:
I missed the last 10 or so laps last night. Did Lewis end up giving the strategist some kudos for the decision to pit, after telling him how much he doubted the strategy?





Last edited by shoot999 on Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:54 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Was a good battle, fun to watch, if Max's tyres could have held on a bit better to give him a fighting chance at defending it could have been epic.


If Christian Horner had pitted Max on the lap after Lewis pitted then Lewis would have to get around Max on equal tires. That, I think would have been an epic battle. Lewis was quicker than Max all day but still had trouble getting around him.


If that had happened then Verstappen would have had equal tyres but would have lost track position, we saw that however good you were passing was very very difficult. Hamilton would have won.


Pretty sure Horner said after the race that even if they'd pitted Verstappen the following lap he'd have come out behind Hamilton &, as Mort said, the RB just didn't have the race pace to match the Merc all day so Hamilton would've prevailed.

As soon as Hamilton pitted, and with all things being equal, RB were never going win that race.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:25 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Was a good battle, fun to watch, if Max's tyres could have held on a bit better to give him a fighting chance at defending it could have been epic.


If Christian Horner had pitted Max on the lap after Lewis pitted then Lewis would have to get around Max on equal tires. That, I think would have been an epic battle. Lewis was quicker than Max all day but still had trouble getting around him.


If that had happened then Verstappen would have had equal tyres but would have lost track position, we saw that however good you were passing was very very difficult. Hamilton would have won.


Yes thats correct, I kept a close eye on it. From memory of the live sectors;

Hamilton entered the pits 0.9 behind Verstappen. By the time Hamilton was exiting turn 1 he was 20.8 behind Verstappen. Hamiltons total time loss was 19.9 seconds and he had a good stop too 2.4 seconds I believe.

By the time Verstappen was at the pit entry the gap was down to 19.2. Verstappen needed a world record pit stop and even then he would likely come out a car length or 2 behind Hamilton, the only option was to stay out.

Hamilton must have put his car in quali mode for that out lap, to put it into perspective, his outlap earlier in the race - that was very quick at the time as he cut into Max's lead - was 3.6 seconds slower than this monster lap and he was only 17 laps worth of fuel lighter in a 70 lap race, so not a huge weight difference.

It was the lap that won him the race as Max couldn't pit and maintain the lead. It was 5 seconds quicker than Vettels out lap when switching to the soft and 3.8 seconds quicker than Bottas' out lap when he switched to the medium just 2 laps before Lewis.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:37 am 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
We also didn't get to see if Mercedes would have asked VB to move over and whether Mercedes saw MV as a WDC threat to LH at this point.

No and with that in mind it's fast getting to the point were if Verstappen continues to be a threat then Mercedes have to think about once again relegating Bottas to a #2 role?


Well Max isn't a WDC threat now is he, so we will never know the answer to this question. Had Max won yesterday though it would have been interesting and we all would have been talking about whether the Red Bull in the hands of Max had a chance of closing the 57ish points gap in the remaining 9 races which would have been a tall order but still very possible if he kept his form up.

However with it being 69 points now, there is no chance of him overturning this unless Hamilton has a lot of DNF's which is the needed narrative we've been saying for the last few years in the hopes that Vettel may have been able to apply some pressure being 30 or 40 points back in 2017 and 2018 and that never happened so there's no reason to think it will happen to an even bigger lead in 2019.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:04 am 
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Since Canada Verstappen has outscored everyone including Hamilton, but it's a tall mountain to climb if he is to be considered a real title threat.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:25 am 
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shoot999 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It was interesting that Bottas did not take part in the Mercedes victory celebrations, did he get issued his P45?


If its a win and the other guy is off the podium they sometimes miss the photo op. Think they have both done it before.


Why do they sometimes miss it? Is it because the position of the other car when off the podium, (on this occasion 8th), is not deemed worthy of being seen as a success and therefore not worth celebrating? And therefore the way to show or demonstrate this is to exclude the non-podium driver from procedings?




https://www.15minutenews.com/article/12 ... op-at-spa/

That's the first one I came across from 2017. And I think they can chose to attend.

And another

https://www.alamy.com/baku-azerbaijan-2 ... 85615.html

Fair enough so sometimes he doesn't attend if he's had a bad race?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:27 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Was a good battle, fun to watch, if Max's tyres could have held on a bit better to give him a fighting chance at defending it could have been epic.


If Christian Horner had pitted Max on the lap after Lewis pitted then Lewis would have to get around Max on equal tires. That, I think would have been an epic battle. Lewis was quicker than Max all day but still had trouble getting around him.

That's not right Verstappen would have ended up behind Hamilton because of the undercut and that's why they didn't pit Verstappen the lap after.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:28 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Not to be too controversial, but...

In Australia, Leclerc ended up catching Vettel at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, but was told not to pass.
In Hungary, Vettel ended up catching Leclerc at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, and was allowed to pass.

What exactly is different between the two situations?

There's no difference and I was going to bring this up myself, Vettel still getting preferential treatment?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:30 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Not to be too controversial, but...

In Australia, Leclerc ended up catching Vettel at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, but was told not to pass.
In Hungary, Vettel ended up catching Leclerc at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, and was allowed to pass.

What exactly is different between the two situations?
One of them is at a point in the year where it's clear that they are not going to win the championship. The other was the first race of the season.

They are still fighting for second in the WCC, there was nothing to be gained by Vettel passing Leclerc.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:35 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
We also didn't get to see if Mercedes would have asked VB to move over and whether Mercedes saw MV as a WDC threat to LH at this point.

No and with that in mind it's fast getting to the point were if Verstappen continues to be a threat then Mercedes have to think about once again relegating Bottas to a #2 role?


Well Max isn't a WDC threat now is he, so we will never know the answer to this question. Had Max won yesterday though it would have been interesting and we all would have been talking about whether the Red Bull in the hands of Max had a chance of closing the 57ish points gap in the remaining 9 races which would have been a tall order but still very possible if he kept his form up.

However with it being 69 points now, there is no chance of him overturning this unless Hamilton has a lot of DNF's which is the needed narrative we've been saying for the last few years in the hopes that Vettel may have been able to apply some pressure being 30 or 40 points back in 2017 and 2018 and that never happened so there's no reason to think it will happen to an even bigger lead in 2019.

There's nothing guaranteed in respect to either reliability or incidents on the track, Verstappen has won 2 of the last 4 races, it was nearly 3 wins, the 4th race he probably would have finished 2nd if he hadn't been punted by Vettel, one thing that Mercedes do not do is take things for granted.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:21 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Not to be too controversial, but...

In Australia, Leclerc ended up catching Vettel at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, but was told not to pass.
In Hungary, Vettel ended up catching Leclerc at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, and was allowed to pass.

What exactly is different between the two situations?

There's no difference and I was going to bring this up myself, Vettel still getting preferential treatment?


I think it's more that Leclerc isn't getting the same preferential treatment that Vettel was receiving at the start of the year.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Carlos Sainz enjoyed finishing fifth:

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1158102806584320001?s=19


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:39 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Carlos Sainz enjoyed finishing fifth:

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1158102806584320001?s=19


Clearly more fun than rallying!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:13 am 
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Wow another great race! This is why we love F1.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:16 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Not to be too controversial, but...

In Australia, Leclerc ended up catching Vettel at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, but was told not to pass.
In Hungary, Vettel ended up catching Leclerc at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, and was allowed to pass.

What exactly is different between the two situations?

There's no difference and I was going to bring this up myself, Vettel still getting preferential treatment?

In the first race, they still maintained hopes for WDC. And that not with a rookie, but with a four times world champion, which is expectable. In the recent races they issued no team orders AFAIK.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Not to be too controversial, but...

In Australia, Leclerc ended up catching Vettel at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, but was told not to pass.
In Hungary, Vettel ended up catching Leclerc at the end of the race due to strategy, was much quicker, and was allowed to pass.

What exactly is different between the two situations?

There's no difference and I was going to bring this up myself, Vettel still getting preferential treatment?

In the first race, they still maintained hopes for WDC. And that not with a rookie, but with a four times world champion, which is expectable. In the recent races they issued no team orders AFAIK.

Well it will be interesting to see if the roles are reversed that Leclerc has to ask for permission to pass again?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:47 pm 
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I thought the onboards from last weekend were really excellent. Lot's of close, clean, exciting racing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:56 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:
I thought the onboards from last weekend were really excellent. Lot's of close, clean, exciting racing.


Interesting, some observations I would like to make.

First with Leclerc, totally his fault for the collision with Bottas, he damaged Bottas' car, he swerved to the left and then went back right onto the racing line, nominally that could be a penalty for Lerclerc but like the unsafe pit lane release no penalty. Since the uproar from Canada we've seen Hamilton penalised twice, letter of the law, by the book, there is a precedent for it, but with Ferrari and in particular Leclerc such a reluctance to observe such procedures, also flagged up by all the other teams after Germany so it wasn't just me asking questions.

Next Perez, he saw Albon behind him and started to make a block but it was too late and then deliberately turned for the corner knowing Albon was on his inside then claimed that Albon hit him wanting the stewards to investigate so he could get his 10th place position back, Perez likes to play the game.

Finally Russell, insane passing of cars on the first lap despite having the slowest car on the grid.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:51 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Was a good battle, fun to watch, if Max's tyres could have held on a bit better to give him a fighting chance at defending it could have been epic.


If Christian Horner had pitted Max on the lap after Lewis pitted then Lewis would have to get around Max on equal tires. That, I think would have been an epic battle. Lewis was quicker than Max all day but still had trouble getting around him.


If that had happened then Verstappen would have had equal tyres but would have lost track position, we saw that however good you were passing was very very difficult. Hamilton would have won.


Yeah, that was my first take on the situation. Upon further thought, you are right. Lewis was faster than Max and since he pitted first he would have had the undercut and Max would have come out behind Lewis. Max wasn't fast enough to pass Lewis even on equal tires.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:35 am 
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Amazing race, looking forward to more great racing. Enjoy your summer break everyone :thumbup:

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