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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:18 pm 
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Oh but if we're including former drivers then I have only one entry 3 times: Michael Schumacher

The bane of my childhood. I supported every driver that ever went up against him. And my anti-Schumacher thing was justified after all the dodgy things he did. He was an occasional cheat, Ferrari were cheats, it was ensured he had a patsy for a teammate, at one stage he even had the entire Bridgestone organization making bespoke tyres just for him! And the FIA, always getting involved, always seeming to favour him and his team. 2001-04 were really, really tough

But I am adult enough to recognise him as one of the Top 3 drivers in Formula 1 history. His driving talent was from another universe and his achievements (despite his transgressions) are still mightily impressive no matter what way you look at them

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:06 pm 
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Very interesting and well-behaved responses, I'd say.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:18 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Oh but if we're including former drivers then I have only one entry 3 times: Michael Schumacher

The bane of my childhood. I supported every driver that ever went up against him. And my anti-Schumacher thing was justified after all the dodgy things he did. He was an occasional cheat, Ferrari were cheats, it was ensured he had a patsy for a teammate, at one stage he even had the entire Bridgestone organization making bespoke tyres just for him! And the FIA, always getting involved, always seeming to favour him and his team. 2001-04 were really, really tough

But I am adult enough to recognise him as one of the Top 3 drivers in Formula 1 history. His driving talent was from another universe and his achievements (despite his transgressions) are still mightily impressive no matter what way you look at them


My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:29 am 
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Least favourite is probably Senna, Hamilton and Alonso.

Probably Senna is a bit double-y standard-y from me, since one of my favourites is Schumacher. But I can't really say I have another driver that I dislike, even with these three it is a bit of a stretch.

Maybe put Bernie in there, since he did drive!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:01 pm 
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Verstappen - To go and start a fistfight after a race is plain retarded and he crashed into Danny Ric in Hungary acouple of years ago

Vettel - For deliberately hitting Hamilton at Baku, and just a few other dirty tricks

Stroll cause I really really hate daddy bought me a seat... If I was loaded enough to buy a team and my kids wasnt any good a driver I'd pay for the best education for him to be the next Adrian Newey.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:47 pm 
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Current Drivers:

Hamilton, I used to like him but now..its is like the Fry and Laurie sketch, as I always would say, if its any other driver that wins they are cheering and going nuts on the radio..Hamilton sounfd..well..bored..and gives a alf assed "thanks to the peope back at the factory" oscar style speech, did his Mclaren years rob him of his emotions?

Grosjean, once again used to like him but hes stinking things up at Haas now, time to move on..or out

Bottas, its not that I don't like him..its ...I can't get excited for him..ever


Past Drivers:

Michael Schumacher, didn't help with Jame Allen..aka the schumi fan club president on commentry going nuts because schumis pole position lap beat..not Hakkinens time..not Coulthards, or Montoyas..or anyone elses..but his own bloody timeand Allen is acting like hes just snatched it away from someone else, sure when i driver goes faster than his pole lap commentaters act impressed..James Allen just way overdid it

Nelson Piquet, I prefered Mansell..say no more there

Rubens Barrichello, but only from 2000-onward, at Jordan and Stewart he was awesome..but then he sank into the dutiful number 2 role and went the way of Bottas


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Bobafett wrote:
Current Drivers:

Hamilton, I used to like him but now..its is like the Fry and Laurie sketch, as I always would say, if its any other driver that wins they are cheering and going nuts on the radio..Hamilton sounfd..well..bored..and gives a alf assed "thanks to the peope back at the factory" oscar style speech, did his Mclaren years rob him of his emotions?

Grosjean, once again used to like him but hes stinking things up at Haas now, time to move on..or out

Bottas, its not that I don't like him..its ...I can't get excited for him..ever


Past Drivers:

Michael Schumacher, didn't help with Jame Allen..aka the schumi fan club president on commentry going nuts because schumis pole position lap beat..not Hakkinens time..not Coulthards, or Montoyas..or anyone elses..but his own bloody timeand Allen is acting like hes just snatched it away from someone else, sure when i driver goes faster than his pole lap commentaters act impressed..James Allen just way overdid it

Nelson Piquet, I prefered Mansell..say no more there

Rubens Barrichello, but only from 2000-onward, at Jordan and Stewart he was awesome..but then he sank into the dutiful number 2 role and went the way of Bottas


I always thought that it was Murray Walker that had a hard on for Schumie on TV, James Allen never crossed my mind as such! I guess I probably do not remember Allen's commentary as much


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Bobafett wrote:
Current Drivers:

Hamilton, I used to like him but now..its is like the Fry and Laurie sketch, as I always would say, if its any other driver that wins they are cheering and going nuts on the radio..Hamilton sounfd..well..bored..and gives a alf assed "thanks to the peope back at the factory" oscar style speech, did his Mclaren years rob him of his emotions?

Grosjean, once again used to like him but hes stinking things up at Haas now, time to move on..or out

Bottas, its not that I don't like him..its ...I can't get excited for him..ever


Past Drivers:

Michael Schumacher, didn't help with Jame Allen..aka the schumi fan club president on commentry going nuts because schumis pole position lap beat..not Hakkinens time..not Coulthards, or Montoyas..or anyone elses..but his own bloody timeand Allen is acting like hes just snatched it away from someone else, sure when i driver goes faster than his pole lap commentaters act impressed..James Allen just way overdid it

Nelson Piquet, I prefered Mansell..say no more there

Rubens Barrichello, but only from 2000-onward, at Jordan and Stewart he was awesome..but then he sank into the dutiful number 2 role and went the way of Bottas


I always thought that it was Murray Walker that had a hard on for Schumie on TV, James Allen never crossed my mind as such! I guess I probably do not remember Allen's commentary as much


Walker did have a hard on for Schumi (though not as much as he had for Fangio )and I remember when I was at Silverstone one year he was being interviewed and basicly said something to the effect of we shouldn't complain about schumi winning all the time just marvel at his greatness..erm..no Murray..I like a close contest..while yes schumi is an amazing talent..hes making it boring. James Allen took it to new levels with the going nutswhen he beats his own pole time stuff for example


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:01 am 
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Bobafett wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Bobafett wrote:
Current Drivers:

Hamilton, I used to like him but now..its is like the Fry and Laurie sketch, as I always would say, if its any other driver that wins they are cheering and going nuts on the radio..Hamilton sounfd..well..bored..and gives a alf assed "thanks to the peope back at the factory" oscar style speech, did his Mclaren years rob him of his emotions?

Grosjean, once again used to like him but hes stinking things up at Haas now, time to move on..or out

Bottas, its not that I don't like him..its ...I can't get excited for him..ever


Past Drivers:

Michael Schumacher, didn't help with Jame Allen..aka the schumi fan club president on commentry going nuts because schumis pole position lap beat..not Hakkinens time..not Coulthards, or Montoyas..or anyone elses..but his own bloody timeand Allen is acting like hes just snatched it away from someone else, sure when i driver goes faster than his pole lap commentaters act impressed..James Allen just way overdid it

Nelson Piquet, I prefered Mansell..say no more there

Rubens Barrichello, but only from 2000-onward, at Jordan and Stewart he was awesome..but then he sank into the dutiful number 2 role and went the way of Bottas


I always thought that it was Murray Walker that had a hard on for Schumie on TV, James Allen never crossed my mind as such! I guess I probably do not remember Allen's commentary as much


Walker did have a hard on for Schumi (though not as much as he had for Fangio )and I remember when I was at Silverstone one year he was being interviewed and basicly said something to the effect of we shouldn't complain about schumi winning all the time just marvel at his greatness..erm..no Murray..I like a close contest..while yes schumi is an amazing talent..hes making it boring. James Allen took it to new levels with the going nutswhen he beats his own pole time stuff for example

I honestly can't remember, maybe he was trying to make it sound exciting like Crofty does sometimes. It must be a difficult job at times!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:10 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Oh but if we're including former drivers then I have only one entry 3 times: Michael Schumacher

The bane of my childhood. I supported every driver that ever went up against him. And my anti-Schumacher thing was justified after all the dodgy things he did. He was an occasional cheat, Ferrari were cheats, it was ensured he had a patsy for a teammate, at one stage he even had the entire Bridgestone organization making bespoke tyres just for him! And the FIA, always getting involved, always seeming to favour him and his team. 2001-04 were really, really tough

But I am adult enough to recognise him as one of the Top 3 drivers in Formula 1 history. His driving talent was from another universe and his achievements (despite his transgressions) are still mightily impressive no matter what way you look at them


My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!


You forgot to include Benetton at this point.

Senna did all the same things as Schumacher? Noooooooooooooooooooooo

The teams he drove for never cheated to give him an unfair advantage. He never had the backing of a tyre manufacturer. He & the then FISA, now FIA, boss, Jean Marie Balestre, were constantly at loggerheads to the point it was rumored that Balestre manipulated the 89 championship to favor Prost by disqualifying Senna after the crash in Suzuka.

Once Senna left Lotus, i'm not sure any of his team mates from that point forward were the "patsy's" you describe Schumachers team mates as. Certainly Prost wasn't. I don't think Berger or Andretti were. Hakkinen & Hill may have had #2 status but they were only team mates for Senna's for 3 races each.

Senna a cheat? Well, the word cheat is such a harsh term.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:13 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Oh but if we're including former drivers then I have only one entry 3 times: Michael Schumacher

The bane of my childhood. I supported every driver that ever went up against him. And my anti-Schumacher thing was justified after all the dodgy things he did. He was an occasional cheat, Ferrari were cheats, it was ensured he had a patsy for a teammate, at one stage he even had the entire Bridgestone organization making bespoke tyres just for him! And the FIA, always getting involved, always seeming to favour him and his team. 2001-04 were really, really tough

But I am adult enough to recognise him as one of the Top 3 drivers in Formula 1 history. His driving talent was from another universe and his achievements (despite his transgressions) are still mightily impressive no matter what way you look at them


My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!


You forgot to include Benetton at this point.

Senna did all the same things as Schumacher? Noooooooooooooooooooooo

The teams he drove for never cheated to give him an unfair advantage. He never had the backing of a tyre manufacturer. He & the then FISA, now FIA, boss, Jean Marie Balestre, were constantly at loggerheads to the point it was rumored that Balestre manipulated the 89 championship to favor Prost by disqualifying Senna after the crash in Suzuka.

Once Senna left Lotus, i'm not sure any of his team mates from that point forward were the "patsy's" you describe Schumachers team mates as. Certainly Prost wasn't. I don't think Berger or Andretti were. Hakkinen & Hill may have had #2 status but they were only team mates for Senna's for 3 races each.

Senna a cheat? Well, the word cheat is such a harsh term.


None of the above are things Schumacher did.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:36 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Oh but if we're including former drivers then I have only one entry 3 times: Michael Schumacher

The bane of my childhood. I supported every driver that ever went up against him. And my anti-Schumacher thing was justified after all the dodgy things he did. He was an occasional cheat, Ferrari were cheats, it was ensured he had a patsy for a teammate, at one stage he even had the entire Bridgestone organization making bespoke tyres just for him! And the FIA, always getting involved, always seeming to favour him and his team. 2001-04 were really, really tough

But I am adult enough to recognise him as one of the Top 3 drivers in Formula 1 history. His driving talent was from another universe and his achievements (despite his transgressions) are still mightily impressive no matter what way you look at them


My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!


You forgot to include Benetton at this point.

Senna did all the same things as Schumacher? Noooooooooooooooooooooo

The teams he drove for never cheated to give him an unfair advantage. He never had the backing of a tyre manufacturer. He & the then FISA, now FIA, boss, Jean Marie Balestre, were constantly at loggerheads to the point it was rumored that Balestre manipulated the 89 championship to favor Prost by disqualifying Senna after the crash in Suzuka.

Once Senna left Lotus, i'm not sure any of his team mates from that point forward were the "patsy's" you describe Schumachers team mates as. Certainly Prost wasn't. I don't think Berger or Andretti were. Hakkinen & Hill may have had #2 status but they were only team mates for Senna's for 3 races each.

Senna a cheat? Well, the word cheat is such a harsh term.


I do not think I described Schumacher's team mates as anything, nor his team. But Senna did drive his team mate to a wall, crashed on someone else to win a WDC and went around slowly in the Monaco quali to make his potential pole stick. All things that Schumacher did afterwards; so if one calls Schumacher a cheat, then it would be extremely double standard to let Senna off the hook.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:48 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Oh but if we're including former drivers then I have only one entry 3 times: Michael Schumacher

The bane of my childhood. I supported every driver that ever went up against him. And my anti-Schumacher thing was justified after all the dodgy things he did. He was an occasional cheat, Ferrari were cheats, it was ensured he had a patsy for a teammate, at one stage he even had the entire Bridgestone organization making bespoke tyres just for him! And the FIA, always getting involved, always seeming to favour him and his team. 2001-04 were really, really tough

But I am adult enough to recognise him as one of the Top 3 drivers in Formula 1 history. His driving talent was from another universe and his achievements (despite his transgressions) are still mightily impressive no matter what way you look at them


My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!


You forgot to include Benetton at this point.

Senna did all the same things as Schumacher? Noooooooooooooooooooooo

The teams he drove for never cheated to give him an unfair advantage. He never had the backing of a tyre manufacturer. He & the then FISA, now FIA, boss, Jean Marie Balestre, were constantly at loggerheads to the point it was rumored that Balestre manipulated the 89 championship to favor Prost by disqualifying Senna after the crash in Suzuka.

Once Senna left Lotus, i'm not sure any of his team mates from that point forward were the "patsy's" you describe Schumachers team mates as. Certainly Prost wasn't. I don't think Berger or Andretti were. Hakkinen & Hill may have had #2 status but they were only team mates for Senna's for 3 races each.

Senna a cheat? Well, the word cheat is such a harsh term.

Agree, but there is much more to the story. The Senna-Prost relationship and all the bits we missed, with quite a few interesting moments - all of this I found in the words of Alain Prost as being interviewed by Nigel Roebuck over here:
https://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm
You might be surprised about how Honda differently handled Senna and Prost, in clear favor of Senna. But that is just a bit of the story.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!

Senna did all the same things as Schumacher? Noooooooooooooooooooooo

Not everything, no. But the one really unforgivable thing Schumacher did was something he learned directly from Senna - the idea that you can win a World Championship by deliberately driving into your competitor. I will never understand why Senna wasn't disqualified from the 1990 championship on the spot, and the FIA's failure to do so directly set up what Schumi did in 1994 and 1997. People gripe about how Schumacher got to 'keep' his wins from 1997, but Senna got nothing at all - not even a slap on the wrist - for an incident that was much more dangerous.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:00 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!

Senna did all the same things as Schumacher? Noooooooooooooooooooooo

Not everything, no. But the one really unforgivable thing Schumacher did was something he learned directly from Senna - the idea that you can win a World Championship by deliberately driving into your competitor. I will never understand why Senna wasn't disqualified from the 1990 championship on the spot, and the FIA's failure to do so directly set up what Schumi did in 1994 and 1997. People gripe about how Schumacher got to 'keep' his wins from 1997, but Senna got nothing at all - not even a slap on the wrist - for an incident that was much more dangerous.


They had a problem in that they had not DSQ'd Prost the year before for taking Senna out at the same circuit. Senna's bizarre DSQ from that race had caused so much uproar, I just don't think they wanted to repeat it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:25 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!

Senna did all the same things as Schumacher? Noooooooooooooooooooooo

Not everything, no. But the one really unforgivable thing Schumacher did was something he learned directly from Senna - the idea that you can win a World Championship by deliberately driving into your competitor. I will never understand why Senna wasn't disqualified from the 1990 championship on the spot, and the FIA's failure to do so directly set up what Schumi did in 1994 and 1997. People gripe about how Schumacher got to 'keep' his wins from 1997, but Senna got nothing at all - not even a slap on the wrist - for an incident that was much more dangerous.

They had a problem in that they had not DSQ'd Prost the year before for taking Senna out at the same circuit. Senna's bizarre DSQ from that race had caused so much uproar, I just don't think they wanted to repeat it.

Yeah - that was poorly handled, I agree.

But Prost DNF'd, so they couldn't DSQ him from the race for intentional contact. If you're suggesting what he did was equal to what Senna did and worthy of a season DSQ, that's where we're going to disagree.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
My exacts thoughts on Senna. Senna taught all these things, so maybe you should have had 1.5 times Schumacher and 1.5 times Senna!!!

Senna did all the same things as Schumacher? Noooooooooooooooooooooo

Not everything, no. But the one really unforgivable thing Schumacher did was something he learned directly from Senna - the idea that you can win a World Championship by deliberately driving into your competitor. I will never understand why Senna wasn't disqualified from the 1990 championship on the spot, and the FIA's failure to do so directly set up what Schumi did in 1994 and 1997. People gripe about how Schumacher got to 'keep' his wins from 1997, but Senna got nothing at all - not even a slap on the wrist - for an incident that was much more dangerous.

They had a problem in that they had not DSQ'd Prost the year before for taking Senna out at the same circuit. Senna's bizarre DSQ from that race had caused so much uproar, I just don't think they wanted to repeat it.

Yeah - that was poorly handled, I agree.

But Prost DNF'd, so they couldn't DSQ him from the race for intentional contact. If you're suggesting what he did was equal to what Senna did and worthy of a season DSQ, that's where we're going to disagree.


It was farcical. Senna get's hit into, continues and then gets Disqualified for an infringement that up to that point had never even been penalised.

It was the same as in Prost deliberately caused an accident to win the championship. Not as high speed or as premeditated as Senna but pretty similar to what Schumacher did.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:53 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
It was farcical. Senna get's hit into, continues and then gets Disqualified for an infringement that up to that point had never even been penalised.

It was the same as in Prost deliberately caused an accident to win the championship. Not as high speed or as premeditated as Senna but pretty similar to what Schumacher did.

I absolutely agree that Senna's DSQ was farcical and stinks of race manipulation. After surviving contact, there's no reason he shouldn't have been allowed to continue the race - excepting the possibility that getting outside assistance to rejoin the race actually is worthy of disqualification, which wasn't applied consistently at the time even if true.

I don't agree about the hit. Not only was it lower speed and far less dangerous, it can't be clearly demonstrated to have been intentional. There is absolutely no such argument in Senna's case. It was dangerous, and it was premeditated. It's one of the most disgraceful things ever to happen in any sport, any time.

IMO, Prost should probably have got some sort of penalty for it - maybe a ban from the next race. Schumacher should have been disqualified from the championship, which he was. Senna should have been banned for life.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It was farcical. Senna get's hit into, continues and then gets Disqualified for an infringement that up to that point had never even been penalised.

It was the same as in Prost deliberately caused an accident to win the championship. Not as high speed or as premeditated as Senna but pretty similar to what Schumacher did.

I absolutely agree that Senna's DSQ was farcical and stinks of race manipulation. After surviving contact, there's no reason he shouldn't have been allowed to continue the race - excepting the possibility that getting outside assistance to rejoin the race actually is worthy of disqualification, which wasn't applied consistently at the time even if true.

I don't agree about the hit. Not only was it lower speed and far less dangerous, it can't be clearly demonstrated to have been intentional. There is absolutely no such argument in Senna's case. It was dangerous, and it was premeditated. It's one of the most disgraceful things ever to happen in any sport, any time.

IMO, Prost should probably have got some sort of penalty for it - maybe a ban from the next race. Schumacher should have been disqualified from the championship, which he was. Senna should have been banned for life.


So we're basically in agreement except for I think Prost did very much deliberately hit Senna.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:51 am 
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1. As a Canadian, it pains me to say this: Lance Stroll has no place in F1 without his father owning the team, he would not be. On a side note, I *AM* a Lawrence Stroll fan. Putting real cash and resources into F1 should always be welcome.

2. Grosjean needs to go. He has had several chances and YEARS to prove himself. He hasn't. He wont. He is what you see.

3. I hate to say this about a guy with less than one season under his belt, but it doesn't appear Gasly deserves a seat in F1, let alone one of the "Big 3".


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:11 am 
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Those who IMO block places for better talents. Atm, this would be
Stroll, Giovinazzi, and of course Kubica.
Furthermore, Gasly should not be in a top team.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:45 pm 
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After giving it another thought. Ocon, Bottas, Grosjean and Kubica.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:47 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
After giving it another thought. Ocon, Bottas, Grosjean and Kubica.



Oof! Who would you like to partner Hamilton at Mercedes then?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:25 am 
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Magnussen - rude, belligerent, disrespectful and an out and out thug on track.

Verstappen - similar to Magnussen, but it slowly improving and nowhere near as bad as kmag.

Vettel - constantly whines, has poor race craft, poor in the wet and hides behind team orders/contract to make himself look better than his team mates. No thank you. Vastly overrated.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:28 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Those who IMO block places for better talents. Atm, this would be
Stroll, Giovinazzi, and of course Kubica.
Furthermore, Gasly should not be in a top team.


Stroll is poor in qualifying, but strong in races, and actually very good in the wet (the latter of which is a strong sign of driver talent).

Perez is very good, very underrated, was pretty evenly matched with Button at McLaren in 2013 and Stroll has held up well vs Perez.

I strongly suspect that the dislike for Stroll is simply down to the belief that he's only in F1 due to his daddy's money. That is utter trash.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:29 am 
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Invade wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
After giving it another thought. Ocon, Bottas, Grosjean and Kubica.



Oof! Who would you like to partner Hamilton at Mercedes then?


Without a doubt, Russell.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:33 am 
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dpastern wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Those who IMO block places for better talents. Atm, this would be
Stroll, Giovinazzi, and of course Kubica.
Furthermore, Gasly should not be in a top team.


Stroll is poor in qualifying, but strong in races, and actually very good in the wet (the latter of which is a strong sign of driver talent).

Perez is very good, very underrated, was pretty evenly matched with Button at McLaren in 2013 and Stroll has held up well vs Perez.

I strongly suspect that the dislike for Stroll is simply down to the belief that he's only in F1 due to his daddy's money. That is utter trash.


No it's 100% accurate. If Stroll was poor he would not currently be in F1.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:56 pm 
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Invade wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
After giving it another thought. Ocon, Bottas, Grosjean and Kubica.



Oof! Who would you like to partner Hamilton at Mercedes then?


If Mercedes is happy with the current situation, then Bottas is fine. Let Russel spend another year in Williams and then move to Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:38 pm 
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I'm starting to dislike Verstappen. Starting to dislike how quickly people are fawning & falling over themselves to proclaim him the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes, he's having a good season, but it should take more than a few good races, to be ranked alongside the likes of Alonso, Hamilton & even Vettel. The fact that some have even called him GOAT, is laughable. Let him earn his dues first.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Alonso. I never liked him and Flavio but they worked well together in Renault. His celebration in European GP 2005 when Kimi had suspension failure in last lap was pretty pathetic :uhoh: In 2007 his behavior with Mclaren-Mercedes and shocking. He obviously wanted control over the team and when they refused. He was blackmailing them that he would tell FIA about the spygate. Obviously the disgraceful win with Renault at Singapore. I am pretty sure he knew what was going to happen in the race. Even with Ferrari when they wanted to extend his contract but his behavior, demands turned them off and once they found Vettel has an exit clause with RBR they grabbed him immediately. This pretty much forced him out but I think he could have still stayed to take on Vettel. It seems that Vettel also had a good contract where Alonso could not have his usual demands meet. GP2 engine message in radio at Suzuka was another low. There were couple of occasion where he wanted retire even though car was working fine. There was also a report which said that he refused to driver for Mclaren if Honda would not have been replaced. Last year when CH said in a podcast that Alonso creates chaos wherever he goes. He got triggered and claimed that RBR had contacted him but he declined them. I do not believe Alonso at all. It makes no sense for RBR and Honda to hire him. I would have loved to see Max destroy his ego for good though.

There were some rumors if Vettel retires Ferrari might take Alonso. I think that would be horrible thing to happen. Charles is more of a nice guy and the last thing he or Ferrari wants is a guy like Alonso. May be if a new team wants to enter F1 or some team wants to build a team around Alonso then may be it can work. Alonso loves that. The dirty politics he plays in the team and wants the dominant control. He loves himself way too much IMO and has a huge ego.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:26 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Those who IMO block places for better talents. Atm, this would be
Stroll, Giovinazzi, and of course Kubica.
Furthermore, Gasly should not be in a top team.


Stroll is poor in qualifying, but strong in races, and actually very good in the wet (the latter of which is a strong sign of driver talent).

Perez is very good, very underrated, was pretty evenly matched with Button at McLaren in 2013 and Stroll has held up well vs Perez.

I strongly suspect that the dislike for Stroll is simply down to the belief that he's only in F1 due to his daddy's money. That is utter trash.


No it's 100% accurate. If Stroll was poor he would not currently be in F1.

OK, true - money has facilitated hs rise to F1. But he has been putting in race performances that justify his presence. If he could just work on his one-lap pace...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:43 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Invade wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
After giving it another thought. Ocon, Bottas, Grosjean and Kubica.



Oof! Who would you like to partner Hamilton at Mercedes then?


If Mercedes is happy with the current situation, then Bottas is fine. Let Russel spend another year in Williams and then move to Mercedes.


If Mercedes were happy with the current situation, would they scratch their heads for so long for the 2020 seat? It's inevitable Bottas in his 3rd year running won't finish runner up.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:00 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Those who IMO block places for better talents. Atm, this would be
Stroll, Giovinazzi, and of course Kubica.
Furthermore, Gasly should not be in a top team.


Stroll is poor in qualifying, but strong in races, and actually very good in the wet (the latter of which is a strong sign of driver talent).

Perez is very good, very underrated, was pretty evenly matched with Button at McLaren in 2013 and Stroll has held up well vs Perez.

I strongly suspect that the dislike for Stroll is simply down to the belief that he's only in F1 due to his daddy's money. That is utter trash.


No it's 100% accurate. If Stroll was poor he would not currently be in F1.
To balance that, we should acknowledge that if a driver is really obviously talented, he would surely get the sponsorship together to progress to F1. By which I mean he's not obviously blocking a seat for a top talent.
The major problem currently in F1 isn't the fact that driver X is less deserving of a seat than driver Y, Z or A, but that there simply isn't enough money for teams to enter the class. We don't even have a full field on the grid these days. We can all laugh our heads off at attempts such as Life or Coloni, but there was a time when there were drivers who had to pre-qualify on Friday morning at 8, with the mist still hanging between the trees going to Kemmel at Francorchamps. There were 10 drivers too many for a field of 26!
With only 20 seats available, money will talk. It does so for teams, so why not for drivers?

I'm still looking for 2 drivers as least favourites, and I find it terribly difficult. Do I include Alonso or not? :?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:41 am 
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SR1 wrote:
I'm starting to dislike Verstappen. Starting to dislike how quickly people are fawning & falling over themselves to proclaim him the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes, he's having a good season, but it should take more than a few good races, to be ranked alongside the likes of Alonso, Hamilton & even Vettel. The fact that some have even called him GOAT, is laughable. Let him earn his dues first.

Who called Verstappen GOAT???


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:50 am 
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Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Those who IMO block places for better talents. Atm, this would be
Stroll, Giovinazzi, and of course Kubica.
Furthermore, Gasly should not be in a top team.


Stroll is poor in qualifying, but strong in races, and actually very good in the wet (the latter of which is a strong sign of driver talent).

Perez is very good, very underrated, was pretty evenly matched with Button at McLaren in 2013 and Stroll has held up well vs Perez.

I strongly suspect that the dislike for Stroll is simply down to the belief that he's only in F1 due to his daddy's money. That is utter trash.


No it's 100% accurate. If Stroll was poor he would not currently be in F1.
To balance that, we should acknowledge that if a driver is really obviously talented, he would surely get the sponsorship together to progress to F1. By which I mean he's not obviously blocking a seat for a top talent.
The major problem currently in F1 isn't the fact that driver X is less deserving of a seat than driver Y, Z or A, but that there simply isn't enough money for teams to enter the class. We don't even have a full field on the grid these days. We can all laugh our heads off at attempts such as Life or Coloni, but there was a time when there were drivers who had to pre-qualify on Friday morning at 8, with the mist still hanging between the trees going to Kemmel at Francorchamps. There were 10 drivers too many for a field of 26!
With only 20 seats available, money will talk. It does so for teams, so why not for drivers?

I'm still looking for 2 drivers as least favourites, and I find it terribly difficult. Do I include Alonso or not? :?


No I don't think that's true. I think there are drivers who have shown they are good enough but couldn't pay to get into F1. More often is that a driver without money never even gets the chance to show they are good enough.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:19 am 
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Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Those who IMO block places for better talents. Atm, this would be
Stroll, Giovinazzi, and of course Kubica.
Furthermore, Gasly should not be in a top team.


Stroll is poor in qualifying, but strong in races, and actually very good in the wet (the latter of which is a strong sign of driver talent).

Perez is very good, very underrated, was pretty evenly matched with Button at McLaren in 2013 and Stroll has held up well vs Perez.

I strongly suspect that the dislike for Stroll is simply down to the belief that he's only in F1 due to his daddy's money. That is utter trash.


No it's 100% accurate. If Stroll was poor he would not currently be in F1.
To balance that, we should acknowledge that if a driver is really obviously talented, he would surely get the sponsorship together to progress to F1. By which I mean he's not obviously blocking a seat for a top talent.
The major problem currently in F1 isn't the fact that driver X is less deserving of a seat than driver Y, Z or A, but that there simply isn't enough money for teams to enter the class. We don't even have a full field on the grid these days. We can all laugh our heads off at attempts such as Life or Coloni, but there was a time when there were drivers who had to pre-qualify on Friday morning at 8, with the mist still hanging between the trees going to Kemmel at Francorchamps. There were 10 drivers too many for a field of 26!
With only 20 seats available, money will talk. It does so for teams, so why not for drivers?

I'm still looking for 2 drivers as least favourites, and I find it terribly difficult. Do I include Alonso or not? :?


Who is the other one?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:28 am 
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SR1 wrote:
I'm starting to dislike Verstappen. Starting to dislike how quickly people are fawning & falling over themselves to proclaim him the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes, he's having a good season, but it should take more than a few good races, to be ranked alongside the likes of Alonso, Hamilton & even Vettel. The fact that some have even called him GOAT, is laughable. Let him earn his dues first.

Hang on - are you starting to dislike him simply because of the over-reaction of a number of fans? You cannot lay the blame for that at his door. The driver himself, in my opinion, is maturing well and, as a result, is becoming more likeable if anything.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:07 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
SR1 wrote:
I'm starting to dislike Verstappen. Starting to dislike how quickly people are fawning & falling over themselves to proclaim him the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes, he's having a good season, but it should take more than a few good races, to be ranked alongside the likes of Alonso, Hamilton & even Vettel. The fact that some have even called him GOAT, is laughable. Let him earn his dues first.

Hang on - are you starting to dislike him simply because of the over-reaction of a number of fans? You cannot lay the blame for that at his door. The driver himself, in my opinion, is maturing well and, as a result, is becoming more likeable if anything.


Through gritted teeth I really have to agree with tootsie.

I've looked for ways to dislike him this year & i've pretty much come up empty.

I've decided it's RB & the sycophants at Sky I really dislike.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:29 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
SR1 wrote:
I'm starting to dislike Verstappen. Starting to dislike how quickly people are fawning & falling over themselves to proclaim him the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes, he's having a good season, but it should take more than a few good races, to be ranked alongside the likes of Alonso, Hamilton & even Vettel. The fact that some have even called him GOAT, is laughable. Let him earn his dues first.

Hang on - are you starting to dislike him simply because of the over-reaction of a number of fans? You cannot lay the blame for that at his door. The driver himself, in my opinion, is maturing well and, as a result, is becoming more likeable if anything.

Through gritted teeth I really have to agree with tootsie.

I've looked for ways to dislike him this year & i've pretty much come up empty.

I've decided it's RB & the sycophants at Sky I really dislike.

Yeah, I'm inclined to join my gritted teeth to yours... no, wait - that sounded weird.

I'm inclined to agree. Max really has matured a lot in the last year or so, and is driving very well and generally fairly now. What bugs me is that the mere fact that he has so visibly matured over the last year - when he's 21 years old - proves how BS it was for people to claim he was so mature for his age before. Pick any driver who comes into the sport at 18, and they're probably more mature than Max was when he came in.

Was he quick for his age? Absolutely. But he wasn't mature.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
SR1 wrote:
I'm starting to dislike Verstappen. Starting to dislike how quickly people are fawning & falling over themselves to proclaim him the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes, he's having a good season, but it should take more than a few good races, to be ranked alongside the likes of Alonso, Hamilton & even Vettel. The fact that some have even called him GOAT, is laughable. Let him earn his dues first.

Hang on - are you starting to dislike him simply because of the over-reaction of a number of fans? You cannot lay the blame for that at his door. The driver himself, in my opinion, is maturing well and, as a result, is becoming more likeable if anything.

Through gritted teeth I really have to agree with tootsie.

I've looked for ways to dislike him this year & i've pretty much come up empty.

I've decided it's RB & the sycophants at Sky I really dislike.

Yeah, I'm inclined to join my gritted teeth to yours... no, wait - that sounded weird.

I'm inclined to agree. Max really has matured a lot in the last year or so, and is driving very well and generally fairly now. What bugs me is that the mere fact that he has so visibly matured over the last year - when he's 21 years old - proves how BS it was for people to claim he was so mature for his age before. Pick any driver who comes into the sport at 18, and they're probably more mature than Max was when he came in.

Was he quick for his age? Absolutely. But he wasn't mature.


Max was 17. Literally a child. Was he as mature as his peers in F1? No. Was he has mature as the lads I went to college with at 17? Absolutely.


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