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Which driver won each intra-team battle in Hungary?
Poll ended at Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:07 pm
Hamilton 11%  11%  [ 35 ]
Bottas 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Vettel 9%  9%  [ 29 ]
Leclerc 2%  2%  [ 6 ]
Verstappen 11%  11%  [ 37 ]
Gasly 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ricciardo 1%  1%  [ 3 ]
Hulkenberg 9%  9%  [ 30 ]
Magnussen 5%  5%  [ 16 ]
Grosjean 4%  4%  [ 12 ]
Sainz 9%  9%  [ 28 ]
Norris 1%  1%  [ 3 ]
Perez 9%  9%  [ 30 ]
Stroll 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Raikkonen 11%  11%  [ 35 ]
Giovinazzi 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Albon 8%  8%  [ 25 ]
Kvyat 2%  2%  [ 6 ]
Russell 9%  9%  [ 31 ]
Kubica 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 327
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:07 pm 
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The results for an eventful German grand prix are...

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Mercedes
TMW race winner: Hamilton (81%)
Hamilton 8 - 3 Bottas
Hamilton 70% - 30% Bottas

An absolute nightmare for Mercedes as a race that, for a while looked like a glorious 1-2, fell apart in the German rain. Lewis Hamilton gets the TMW vote after struggling to a 9th place finish, but neither Mercedes driver cover himself in much glory. Both ended up in the wall with Bottas' adventure proving more terminal, so a combination of that and Lewis' performance on Saturday looks to have tipped the vote in the Brit's favour. With ten races to go Lewis has a comfortable 8-3 advantage and is starting to move into 'he can win the season TMW vote at such and such race' territory.

Ferrari
TMW race winner: Vettel (91%)
Vettel 7 - 4 Leclerc
Vettel 47% - 53% Leclerc

He may not have won the race but Sunday was as close to redemption as Seb could've hoped. And it all looked so bad after he failed to even get a lap in in Q1. Yet when all was said and done the 4x WDC found himself behind only the brilliant Max Verstappen on track. For Charles Leclerc it was another 'what could've been' kind of race as a silly mistake saw another potential win slip through his fingers. It's now the fourth race weekend where there was a reasonable argument that he could've claimed his maiden F1 victory, following his misfortune in Bahrain, his mistake during quali in Baku, and Max's late overtake for the win in Austria. Bahrain was the only one that seemed nailed on, but it's beginning to become a trend for Charles.

Red Bull
TMW race winner: Verstappen (100%)
Verstappen 11 - 0 Gasly
Verstappen 97% - 3% Gasly

And just like that, it's all over at Red Bull. 11-0 with ten races remaining means that even if Pierre Gasly was to win the next ten races and lap the entire field three times at each race, he'd still not be able to recover the deficit to Max. And it was a fitting result, really. Max drove a superb race (with only a spin in the stadium section blotting his copybook) en route to taking his second victory of 2019 while Pierre Gasly had a combination of bad luck, bad strategy and ultimately, bad driving, making contact with Alex Albon and retiring. Gasly, for the record, now has less votes across the season than Verstappen has TMW wins. He has seven races without even receiving a single vote.

Renault
TMW race winner: Hulkenberg (76%)
Ricciardo 8 - 3 Hulkenberg
Ricciardo 58% - 42% Hulkenberg

Another TMW vote that I actually expected to be a little closer than it was. Nico Hulkenberg picks up his first TMW win since the second race of the season, yet at the same time was left cursing as another potential first podium slipped away. Once more it was the consequence of a mistake on the Hulk's part. Daniel Ricciardo, meanwhile, DNFed due to a mechanical problem. Yet 3/4 of the votes when in Nico's favour, presumably on the strength of his drive up until the mistake. The problem is nobody will remember anything other than the mistake...

Haas
TMW race winner: Grosjean (53%)
Magnussen 7 - 4 Grosjean
Magnussen 61% - 39% Grosjean

For the second race in a row there was barely anything separating the two Haas drivers, and I'm not just talking about their proximity to each other on track! In Germany it was Romain Grosjean who got the nod by a score of 16-14, reversing the result for Silverstone where Kevin Magnussen took the TMW honours with the same score. It means Grosjean has now won three of the last five Haas TMW votes, steadying the ship a little after another first half to the season where Magnussen jumped out to a big advantage.

McLaren
TMW race winner: Sainz (93%)
Sainz 7 - 4 Norris
Sainz 52% - 48% Norris

A good race for Carlos Sainz, although he - not unlike race winner Verstappen - also had a scary moment in the stadium section. Having recovered from that he kept his head for the rest of the race, eventually finishing in a rather frustrating P5. Lando Norris went the Daniel Ricciardo of having a potentially good result ruined by a mechanical problem. For McLaren as a whole it must've been a bittersweet race - having been the first finisher after Ferrari/Mercedes/Red Bull in half of the first ten races, they really would've fancied their chances at a podium finish if they'd been told four of the leading cars would fail to trouble the top three. And yet not only did they not get it, they didn't even finish 4th either.

Racing Point
TMW race winner: Stroll (97%)
Perez 8 - 3 Stroll
Perez 58% - 42% Stroll

No real shock here. Sergio Perez was the first casualty of the weather while Lance Stroll was one of the biggest winners, briefly leading the race and fighting for a podium before fading to a still pretty damn good fourth place. It was exactly the kind of race in which Sergio Perez has traditionally sniffed out a podium so he'll have been kicking himself about his early departure, while Stroll again showed he can execute a tricky strategy. The only surprise (is it a surprise?) is that someone voted for Perez over Stroll, robbing the Mexican of a 100% race.

Alfa-Romeo
TMW race winner: Raikkonen (97%)
Raikkonen 10 - 1 Giovinazzi
Raikkonen 92% - 8% Giovinazzi

It's now four TMW victories in a row for Kimi Raikkonen. It wasn't all plain sailing for the Finn, who was one of a number of drivers to have a go on the drag strip, but he ultimately recovered and finished ahead of his rookie teammate. Giovinazzi was (as far as I can recall) one of what seemed like only a few drivers who we didn't see having an adventure at any point, which to be fair isn't bad for a rookie in such conditions, and he did finish directly behind his teammate, so perhaps the balance of votes is a little harsh. For both drivers it was all ultimately for nothing after the post race penalty. Kimi can wrap up the TMW vote in Hungary.

Toro Rosso
TMW race winner: Kvyat (85%)
Albon 5 - 6 Kvyat
Albon 39% - 61% Kvyat

Sure, he became a father for the first time, and sure, he scored Toro Rosso's first podium in years, but the real highlight for Daniil Kvyat is surely taking his sixth TMW win of 2019! Okay, probably not, but the Russian does edge back into the lead of the Toro Rosso TMW vote after his shock podium in Hungary. For his part Alex Albon didn't have a bad race, yet it wasn't quite as spectacular as Kvyat's result and that will surely be what has hurt him in the vote. It also enables the Torpedo to open up a handy advantage in terms of the percentage, which could be key in declaring a winner if the vote remains as close as it currently is.

Williams
TMW race winner: Kubica (86%)
Russell 10 - 1 Kubica
Russell 85% - 15% Kubica

Oh, George Russell. For ten races he had been comfortably the better Williams driver, picking up the TMW vote at each race and, on four occasions, limiting his Polish teammate to zero votes. So what happens in the one race of the year where Williams somehow sneak into the top ten? He makes a mistake late in the race that gifts his position to Kubica! It's a harsh lesson that in F1, just being in the right place at the right time is sometimes all you need to do, and it's why the WDC points currently read Robert Kubica: 1, George Russell: 0. It also means that Kubica receives a stay of execution, grabbing his first TMW victory of his second F1 career and ensuring that his rookie teammate doesn't join Max Verstappen in wrapping up the TMW honours at the earliest opportunity.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Mostly easy ones here, with one probably controversial one thrown in...

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamilton over Bottas -- Not much to say here. A little weak in qualifying, but delivered in the race. Bottas was unfortunate to be taken out on lap one, but failed to do anything special in the midfield, and in the end couldn't get back into the P6 his team predicted for him.

Verstappen over Gasly -- Do I even need to say why? Nope, I don't.

Leclerc over Vettel -- This is the potentially controversial one. I don't actually think Leclerc did a better job as such, but he was better in qualifying and I think equal in the race. Vettel won because he ended up on the right strategy.

Sainz over Norris -- Just a little better when it counted at the start. Norris was unlucky not to be a lot closer, though.

Albon over Kvyat -- A battle of inches, but better in qualifying. Strategy played a role in his race win, but I think he earned it.

Hulkenberg over Ricciardo -- Although really, there's no winner at Renault the way they've been falling back lately. You have to wonder if there's a hand hovering over the team's plug somewhere back in France.

Raikkonen over Giovinazzi - 'Nuff said.

Perez over Stroll -- Similarly obvious.

Grosjean over Magnussen -- Better in qualifying, and frankly I didn't notice either of them in the race except when Grosjean retired and Magnussen blocked Ricciardo.

Russel over Kubica -- I hope for Robert's sake he didn't have the upgrades on his car, because that was embarrassing.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:23 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Leclerc over Vettel -- This is the potentially controversial one. I don't actually think Leclerc did a better job as such, but he was better in qualifying and I think equal in the race. Vettel won because he ended up on the right strategy.

Ferrari is a very tough one as they looked incredibly closely matched all weekend. The gap in qualifying was 0.028 and in the race they looked pretty equal too.

Leclerc couldn't drop Vettel but Vettel wasnt all over him like Hamilton was with Verstappen so it didnt look like he had loads of extra pace in his pocket. Even when the strategies were split it came down to the last few laps.

Will be an interesting battle to watch at Spa and Monza where a win may be possible.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:44 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Leclerc over Vettel -- This is the potentially controversial one. I don't actually think Leclerc did a better job as such, but he was better in qualifying and I think equal in the race. Vettel won because he ended up on the right strategy.

Ferrari is a very tough one as they looked incredibly closely matched all weekend. The gap in qualifying was 0.028 and in the race they looked pretty equal too.

Leclerc couldn't drop Vettel but Vettel wasnt all over him like Hamilton was with Verstappen so it didnt look like he had loads of extra pace in his pocket. Even when the strategies were split it came down to the last few laps.

Will be an interesting battle to watch at Spa and Monza where a win may be possible.

Yeah, honestly my vote was because I expect Vettel to win and I want to even out the percentage. If Leclerc wins I may regret it! :lol:

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TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:31 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Leclerc over Vettel -- This is the potentially controversial one. I don't actually think Leclerc did a better job as such, but he was better in qualifying and I think equal in the race. Vettel won because he ended up on the right strategy.

Ferrari is a very tough one as they looked incredibly closely matched all weekend. The gap in qualifying was 0.028 and in the race they looked pretty equal too.

Leclerc couldn't drop Vettel but Vettel wasnt all over him like Hamilton was with Verstappen so it didnt look like he had loads of extra pace in his pocket. Even when the strategies were split it came down to the last few laps.

Will be an interesting battle to watch at Spa and Monza where a win may be possible.

Yeah, honestly my vote was because I expect Vettel to win and I want to even out the percentage. If Leclerc wins I may regret it! :lol:

I gave the nod to Vettel since he finished ahead, so we cancel eachother out anyway :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:10 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Leclerc over Vettel -- This is the potentially controversial one. I don't actually think Leclerc did a better job as such, but he was better in qualifying and I think equal in the race. Vettel won because he ended up on the right strategy.

Ferrari is a very tough one as they looked incredibly closely matched all weekend. The gap in qualifying was 0.028 and in the race they looked pretty equal too.

Leclerc couldn't drop Vettel but Vettel wasnt all over him like Hamilton was with Verstappen so it didnt look like he had loads of extra pace in his pocket. Even when the strategies were split it came down to the last few laps.

Will be an interesting battle to watch at Spa and Monza where a win may be possible.

Yeah, honestly my vote was because I expect Vettel to win and I want to even out the percentage. If Leclerc wins I may regret it! :lol:


Tut tut - naughty naughty. 8O


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:13 pm 
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So many of us across forums are spelling Russell as Russel. Russel looks better, so I suggest Russell officially changes his name.


***

A comment on Vettel-Leclerc...

Should be a close one, but I voted for Vettel because I'm not convinced at all he happened to be on the right strategy or a better strategy. It appears to me he just showed better tyre management and that Leclerc wasn't able to optimise the potential of his own strategy. If I had to guess, Vettel's strategy is theoretically slower and that if the strategies were reversed he'd have won by a bigger margin over Leclerc.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:27 am 
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Invade wrote:
So many of us across forums are spelling Russell as Russel. Russel looks better, so I suggest Russell officially changes his name.


***

A comment on Vettel-Leclerc...

Should be a close one, but I voted for Vettel because I'm not convinced at all he happened to be on the right strategy or a better strategy. It appears to me he just showed better tyre management and that Leclerc wasn't able to optimise the potential of his own strategy. If I had to guess, Vettel's strategy is theoretically slower and that if the strategies were reversed he'd have won by a bigger margin over Leclerc.


Yeah I've heard Leclerc mention that he struggled with the tires and making them last. So to me that's why he was forced to pit earlier than Vettel. Vettel made the tires last very long and thus was able to make the better strategy work.

With Norris and Sainz, I find it bizarre that Norris keeps finsihing behind Sainz although he is outqualifying him pretty handily this year. Credit to Sainz because he has been solid as a rock in the races, but Norris keeps getting unlucky at virtually every race. Surely that trend is going to stop somehow.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:53 am 
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kleefton wrote:
Invade wrote:
So many of us across forums are spelling Russell as Russel. Russel looks better, so I suggest Russell officially changes his name.


***

A comment on Vettel-Leclerc...

Should be a close one, but I voted for Vettel because I'm not convinced at all he happened to be on the right strategy or a better strategy. It appears to me he just showed better tyre management and that Leclerc wasn't able to optimise the potential of his own strategy. If I had to guess, Vettel's strategy is theoretically slower and that if the strategies were reversed he'd have won by a bigger margin over Leclerc.


Yeah I've heard Leclerc mention that he struggled with the tires and making them last. So to me that's why he was forced to pit earlier than Vettel. Vettel made the tires last very long and thus was able to make the better strategy work.

With Norris and Sainz, I find it bizarre that Norris keeps finsihing behind Sainz although he is outqualifying him pretty handily this year. Credit to Sainz because he has been solid as a rock in the races, but Norris keeps getting unlucky at virtually every race. Surely that trend is going to stop somehow.


Is it all a lack of luck for Norris? I ask because I generally don't know.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:37 am 
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JN23 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Invade wrote:
So many of us across forums are spelling Russell as Russel. Russel looks better, so I suggest Russell officially changes his name.


***

A comment on Vettel-Leclerc...

Should be a close one, but I voted for Vettel because I'm not convinced at all he happened to be on the right strategy or a better strategy. It appears to me he just showed better tyre management and that Leclerc wasn't able to optimise the potential of his own strategy. If I had to guess, Vettel's strategy is theoretically slower and that if the strategies were reversed he'd have won by a bigger margin over Leclerc.


Yeah I've heard Leclerc mention that he struggled with the tires and making them last. So to me that's why he was forced to pit earlier than Vettel. Vettel made the tires last very long and thus was able to make the better strategy work.

With Norris and Sainz, I find it bizarre that Norris keeps finsihing behind Sainz although he is outqualifying him pretty handily this year. Credit to Sainz because he has been solid as a rock in the races, but Norris keeps getting unlucky at virtually every race. Surely that trend is going to stop somehow.


Is it all a lack of luck for Norris? I ask because I generally don't know.


The vast majority is luck. He's dropping points left right and centre through no fault of his own. In Hungary it was the long pitstop. Germany the car broke. Silverstone he got screwed by the safety car. Canada the car broke. I could go on and on.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:11 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Mostly easy ones here, with one probably controversial one thrown in...

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamilton over Bottas -- Not much to say here. A little weak in qualifying, but delivered in the race. Bottas was unfortunate to be taken out on lap one, but failed to do anything special in the midfield, and in the end couldn't get back into the P6 his team predicted for him.

Verstappen over Gasly -- Do I even need to say why? Nope, I don't.

Leclerc over Vettel -- This is the potentially controversial one. I don't actually think Leclerc did a better job as such, but he was better in qualifying and I think equal in the race. Vettel won because he ended up on the right strategy.

Sainz over Norris -- Just a little better when it counted at the start. Norris was unlucky not to be a lot closer, though.

Albon over Kvyat -- A battle of inches, but better in qualifying. Strategy played a role in his race win, but I think he earned it.

Hulkenberg over Ricciardo -- Although really, there's no winner at Renault the way they've been falling back lately. You have to wonder if there's a hand hovering over the team's plug somewhere back in France.

Raikkonen over Giovinazzi - 'Nuff said.

Perez over Stroll -- Similarly obvious.

Grosjean over Magnussen -- Better in qualifying, and frankly I didn't notice either of them in the race except when Grosjean retired and Magnussen blocked Ricciardo.

Russel over Kubica -- I hope for Robert's sake he didn't have the upgrades on his car, because that was embarrassing.

I see that it's been commented on by others and I also agree that Vettel was better than Leclerc, qualifying means little when the gap is measured in 100ths, in the race Vettel was quicker as Leclerc struggled with tyre management, Leclerc seems to be still a work in progress.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:31 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Invade wrote:
So many of us across forums are spelling Russell as Russel. Russel looks better, so I suggest Russell officially changes his name.


***

A comment on Vettel-Leclerc...

Should be a close one, but I voted for Vettel because I'm not convinced at all he happened to be on the right strategy or a better strategy. It appears to me he just showed better tyre management and that Leclerc wasn't able to optimise the potential of his own strategy. If I had to guess, Vettel's strategy is theoretically slower and that if the strategies were reversed he'd have won by a bigger margin over Leclerc.


Yeah I've heard Leclerc mention that he struggled with the tires and making them last. So to me that's why he was forced to pit earlier than Vettel. Vettel made the tires last very long and thus was able to make the better strategy work.

With Norris and Sainz, I find it bizarre that Norris keeps finsihing behind Sainz although he is outqualifying him pretty handily this year. Credit to Sainz because he has been solid as a rock in the races, but Norris keeps getting unlucky at virtually every race. Surely that trend is going to stop somehow.


Is it all a lack of luck for Norris? I ask because I generally don't know.


The vast majority is luck. He's dropping points left right and centre through no fault of his own. In Hungary it was the long pitstop. Germany the car broke. Silverstone he got screwed by the safety car. Canada the car broke. I could go on and on.

He has also managed to lose places off the start occasionally. I think more experience, as well as luck, will see an improvement.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Probably the easiest one all year. The only contentious one seems to be Haas. I went with Grosjean - fantastic qualifying and running in the points until, in typical Haas fashion, his race fell to pieces halfway through. Retired through no fault of his own while Magnussen was on track defending like a ballbag

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:24 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Probably the easiest one all year. The only contentious one seems to be Haas. I went with Grosjean - fantastic qualifying and running in the points until, in typical Haas fashion, his race fell to pieces halfway through. Retired through no fault of his own while Magnussen was on track defending like a ballbag

I have the same thoughts about KMag.

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2016: 4th Place

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Well, Magnussen was ahead when Grosjean retired. But I do not know when his car problems started.

Anyway, it is difficult to compare the Haas drivers since they essentially were driving different cars for the last 4 or 5 race weekends.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:20 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Well, Magnussen was ahead when Grosjean retired. But I do not know when his car problems started.

Anyway, it is difficult to compare the Haas drivers since they essentially were driving different cars for the last 4 or 5 race weekends.

The funny thing is is i honestly feel that thanks to Grosjean crashing in practice a few weekends back, Hass have found out that it is quite possibly true that their old speck car is better :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:20 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Well, Magnussen was ahead when Grosjean retired. But I do not know when his car problems started.

Anyway, it is difficult to compare the Haas drivers since they essentially were driving different cars for the last 4 or 5 race weekends.

The funny thing is is i honestly feel that thanks to Grosjean crashing in practice a few weekends back, Hass have found out that it is quite possibly true that their old speck car is better :lol:

This is something that the Sky team mentioned this weekend, that actually Grosjean has been insisting in recent races that the Melbourne-spec car was better and that their in-season development has taken them in the wrong direction. So they gave him (and not Magnussen) the Melbourne-spec car for Hungary, and he goes and qualifies 9th and is 7 tenths faster than Magnussen in Q2. It's the sort of insight that just might save his seat.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:37 pm 
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j man wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Well, Magnussen was ahead when Grosjean retired. But I do not know when his car problems started.

Anyway, it is difficult to compare the Haas drivers since they essentially were driving different cars for the last 4 or 5 race weekends.

The funny thing is is i honestly feel that thanks to Grosjean crashing in practice a few weekends back, Hass have found out that it is quite possibly true that their old speck car is better :lol:

This is something that the Sky team mentioned this weekend, that actually Grosjean has been insisting in recent races that the Melbourne-spec car was better and that their in-season development has taken them in the wrong direction. So they gave him (and not Magnussen) the Melbourne-spec car for Hungary, and he goes and qualifies 9th and is 7 tenths faster than Magnussen in Q2. It's the sort of insight that just might save his seat.


Grosjean is driving the old spec car because he crashed his new spec. Both drivers complained about the wrong direction of development - but the team did not want to hear it. Magnussen was actually slated for stating it over the radio ...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:47 am 
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There don't seem to be any close contests between the team mates coming out of the Hungarian Grand Prix.
Closest contest looks to be KMag at 15 votes and Grosjean at 8 votes.
Everything else looks petty lopsided.

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