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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:32 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?

Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.


It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.


Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.

As for your assertion that all Albon has to do is bring the car home in 6th and not challenge the likes of Bottas and the Ferrari's and he will be kept for 2020 then you are wrong. Horner said of Gasly's Hungary race ''We are racing Saubers and McLarens when we should be racing Mercedes and Ferrari''. He expects both cars to be battling at the front and Albon needs to do this, even if he is a bit slower than Verstappen. He ideally needs to be close enough to Max to outqualify him from time to time.

If all Horner wanted was someone to bring the car home in 6th then Gasly was capable of doing this, as Gasly is 6th in the WDC and likely would have finished there. He wasn't fast enough to be 6th at every single race but on average he likely should have been able to secure 6th place in the WDC yet this still would have been an appallingly bad level of performance. So Albon needs to do way better than this and actually become a useful and relevant factor in the race at the sharp end. The Ferrari's were over a minute behind in Hungary so Albon will be expected to easily beat the Ferrari's on tracks where the Ferrari is poor.


I think you're very wrong but we shall see.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:36 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?

Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.


It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.


Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.

As for your assertion that all Albon has to do is bring the car home in 6th and not challenge the likes of Bottas and the Ferrari's and he will be kept for 2020 then you are wrong. Horner said of Gasly's Hungary race ''We are racing Saubers and McLarens when we should be racing Mercedes and Ferrari''. He expects both cars to be battling at the front and Albon needs to do this, even if he is a bit slower than Verstappen. He ideally needs to be close enough to Max to outqualify him from time to time.

If all Horner wanted was someone to bring the car home in 6th then Gasly was capable of doing this, as Gasly is 6th in the WDC and likely would have finished there. He wasn't fast enough to be 6th at every single race but on average he likely should have been able to secure 6th place in the WDC yet this still would have been an appallingly bad level of performance. So Albon needs to do way better than this and actually become a useful and relevant factor in the race at the sharp end. The Ferrari's were over a minute behind in Hungary so Albon will be expected to easily beat the Ferrari's on tracks where the Ferrari is poor.


I think you're very wrong but we shall see.


Your tiny one sentence answer compared to my detailed explanation says to me that deep down you agree with me but are being stubborn.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:40 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?

Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.


It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.


Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.

As for your assertion that all Albon has to do is bring the car home in 6th and not challenge the likes of Bottas and the Ferrari's and he will be kept for 2020 then you are wrong. Horner said of Gasly's Hungary race ''We are racing Saubers and McLarens when we should be racing Mercedes and Ferrari''. He expects both cars to be battling at the front and Albon needs to do this, even if he is a bit slower than Verstappen. He ideally needs to be close enough to Max to outqualify him from time to time.

If all Horner wanted was someone to bring the car home in 6th then Gasly was capable of doing this, as Gasly is 6th in the WDC and likely would have finished there. He wasn't fast enough to be 6th at every single race but on average he likely should have been able to secure 6th place in the WDC yet this still would have been an appallingly bad level of performance. So Albon needs to do way better than this and actually become a useful and relevant factor in the race at the sharp end. The Ferrari's were over a minute behind in Hungary so Albon will be expected to easily beat the Ferrari's on tracks where the Ferrari is poor.

I think the killer for Red Bull was losing the race in Hungary, if Ricciardo was still driving for the team I don't believe that Verstappen would have been defenseless to the strategy used against him, at that point they probably realised that they couldn't afford to carry Gasly.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:49 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?

Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.


It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.


Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.

As for your assertion that all Albon has to do is bring the car home in 6th and not challenge the likes of Bottas and the Ferrari's and he will be kept for 2020 then you are wrong. Horner said of Gasly's Hungary race ''We are racing Saubers and McLarens when we should be racing Mercedes and Ferrari''. He expects both cars to be battling at the front and Albon needs to do this, even if he is a bit slower than Verstappen. He ideally needs to be close enough to Max to outqualify him from time to time.

If all Horner wanted was someone to bring the car home in 6th then Gasly was capable of doing this, as Gasly is 6th in the WDC and likely would have finished there. He wasn't fast enough to be 6th at every single race but on average he likely should have been able to secure 6th place in the WDC yet this still would have been an appallingly bad level of performance. So Albon needs to do way better than this and actually become a useful and relevant factor in the race at the sharp end. The Ferrari's were over a minute behind in Hungary so Albon will be expected to easily beat the Ferrari's on tracks where the Ferrari is poor.

I think the killer for Red Bull was losing the race in Hungary, if Ricciardo was still driving for the team I don't believe that Verstappen would have been defenseless to the strategy used against him, at that point they probably realised that they couldn't afford to carry Gasly.


Exactly, although with the summer break offering a good time to change drivers, it may have happened anyway as Gasly has been woeful at 11 out of 12 races this year.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:42 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?

Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.


It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.


Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.

As for your assertion that all Albon has to do is bring the car home in 6th and not challenge the likes of Bottas and the Ferrari's and he will be kept for 2020 then you are wrong. Horner said of Gasly's Hungary race ''We are racing Saubers and McLarens when we should be racing Mercedes and Ferrari''. He expects both cars to be battling at the front and Albon needs to do this, even if he is a bit slower than Verstappen. He ideally needs to be close enough to Max to outqualify him from time to time.

If all Horner wanted was someone to bring the car home in 6th then Gasly was capable of doing this, as Gasly is 6th in the WDC and likely would have finished there. He wasn't fast enough to be 6th at every single race but on average he likely should have been able to secure 6th place in the WDC yet this still would have been an appallingly bad level of performance. So Albon needs to do way better than this and actually become a useful and relevant factor in the race at the sharp end. The Ferrari's were over a minute behind in Hungary so Albon will be expected to easily beat the Ferrari's on tracks where the Ferrari is poor.

I think the killer for Red Bull was losing the race in Hungary, if Ricciardo was still driving for the team I don't believe that Verstappen would have been defenseless to the strategy used against him, at that point they probably realised that they couldn't afford to carry Gasly.


Exactly, although with the summer break offering a good time to change drivers, it may have happened anyway as Gasly has been woeful at 11 out of 12 races this year.

Maybe but I do think that opened their eyes, that had to be a bitter defeat, Horner was a bit salty with his lucky comment.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:45 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?

Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.


It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.


Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.

As for your assertion that all Albon has to do is bring the car home in 6th and not challenge the likes of Bottas and the Ferrari's and he will be kept for 2020 then you are wrong. Horner said of Gasly's Hungary race ''We are racing Saubers and McLarens when we should be racing Mercedes and Ferrari''. He expects both cars to be battling at the front and Albon needs to do this, even if he is a bit slower than Verstappen. He ideally needs to be close enough to Max to outqualify him from time to time.

If all Horner wanted was someone to bring the car home in 6th then Gasly was capable of doing this, as Gasly is 6th in the WDC and likely would have finished there. He wasn't fast enough to be 6th at every single race but on average he likely should have been able to secure 6th place in the WDC yet this still would have been an appallingly bad level of performance. So Albon needs to do way better than this and actually become a useful and relevant factor in the race at the sharp end. The Ferrari's were over a minute behind in Hungary so Albon will be expected to easily beat the Ferrari's on tracks where the Ferrari is poor.

I think the killer for Red Bull was losing the race in Hungary, if Ricciardo was still driving for the team I don't believe that Verstappen would have been defenseless to the strategy used against him, at that point they probably realised that they couldn't afford to carry Gasly.


Exactly, although with the summer break offering a good time to change drivers, it may have happened anyway as Gasly has been woeful at 11 out of 12 races this year.

If #2 can't stay in the same Zip Code as #1 he is of no benefit to the team. In some respects, I am surprised that they stayed within the RB-TR team structure as everyone but Verstappen qualifies as a member of the Three Stooges.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:43 am 
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mmi16 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.


Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.

As for your assertion that all Albon has to do is bring the car home in 6th and not challenge the likes of Bottas and the Ferrari's and he will be kept for 2020 then you are wrong. Horner said of Gasly's Hungary race ''We are racing Saubers and McLarens when we should be racing Mercedes and Ferrari''. He expects both cars to be battling at the front and Albon needs to do this, even if he is a bit slower than Verstappen. He ideally needs to be close enough to Max to outqualify him from time to time.

If all Horner wanted was someone to bring the car home in 6th then Gasly was capable of doing this, as Gasly is 6th in the WDC and likely would have finished there. He wasn't fast enough to be 6th at every single race but on average he likely should have been able to secure 6th place in the WDC yet this still would have been an appallingly bad level of performance. So Albon needs to do way better than this and actually become a useful and relevant factor in the race at the sharp end. The Ferrari's were over a minute behind in Hungary so Albon will be expected to easily beat the Ferrari's on tracks where the Ferrari is poor.

I think the killer for Red Bull was losing the race in Hungary, if Ricciardo was still driving for the team I don't believe that Verstappen would have been defenseless to the strategy used against him, at that point they probably realised that they couldn't afford to carry Gasly.


Exactly, although with the summer break offering a good time to change drivers, it may have happened anyway as Gasly has been woeful at 11 out of 12 races this year.

If #2 can't stay in the same Zip Code as #1 he is of no benefit to the team. In some respects, I am surprised that they stayed within the RB-TR team structure as everyone but Verstappen qualifies as a member of the Three Stooges.

I think they just want to evaluate who the strongest and weakest drivers are, the weakest one perhaps gets dropped if Juri Vips gets his super license?

If none of them are that strong then that gives Red Bull a serious problem for next season because I would be guessing that would be too late to get anyone in of a high enough level outside of the Red Bull program.

The only obvious driver is Alonso which everyone would love to see apart I would be guessing the likes of Red Bull and Honda?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:07 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.

As for your assertion that all Albon has to do is bring the car home in 6th and not challenge the likes of Bottas and the Ferrari's and he will be kept for 2020 then you are wrong. Horner said of Gasly's Hungary race ''We are racing Saubers and McLarens when we should be racing Mercedes and Ferrari''. He expects both cars to be battling at the front and Albon needs to do this, even if he is a bit slower than Verstappen. He ideally needs to be close enough to Max to outqualify him from time to time.

If all Horner wanted was someone to bring the car home in 6th then Gasly was capable of doing this, as Gasly is 6th in the WDC and likely would have finished there. He wasn't fast enough to be 6th at every single race but on average he likely should have been able to secure 6th place in the WDC yet this still would have been an appallingly bad level of performance. So Albon needs to do way better than this and actually become a useful and relevant factor in the race at the sharp end. The Ferrari's were over a minute behind in Hungary so Albon will be expected to easily beat the Ferrari's on tracks where the Ferrari is poor.

I think the killer for Red Bull was losing the race in Hungary, if Ricciardo was still driving for the team I don't believe that Verstappen would have been defenseless to the strategy used against him, at that point they probably realised that they couldn't afford to carry Gasly.


Exactly, although with the summer break offering a good time to change drivers, it may have happened anyway as Gasly has been woeful at 11 out of 12 races this year.

If #2 can't stay in the same Zip Code as #1 he is of no benefit to the team. In some respects, I am surprised that they stayed within the RB-TR team structure as everyone but Verstappen qualifies as a member of the Three Stooges.

I think they just want to evaluate who the strongest and weakest drivers are, the weakest one perhaps gets dropped if Juri Vips gets his super license?

If none of them are that strong then that gives Red Bull a serious problem for next season because I would be guessing that would be too late to get anyone in of a high enough level outside of the Red Bull program.

The only obvious driver is Alonso which everyone would love to see apart I would be guessing the likes of Red Bull and Honda?

.
That'd be one of the biggest surprises since.... well, since Alonso signed for McLaren. Everyone seems to think Grosjean might be available next year. Perhaps his incompetence might just work in his favour.

There'll be a hell of a lot of pressure on Albon over the next 3-4 races. I'd guess, in some strange kind of way, both Gasly & Kvyat will be hoping he can deal with it otherwise any 1 of the 3 might find themselves looking for a drive next year.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:29 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think the killer for Red Bull was losing the race in Hungary, if Ricciardo was still driving for the team I don't believe that Verstappen would have been defenseless to the strategy used against him, at that point they probably realised that they couldn't afford to carry Gasly.


Exactly, although with the summer break offering a good time to change drivers, it may have happened anyway as Gasly has been woeful at 11 out of 12 races this year.

If #2 can't stay in the same Zip Code as #1 he is of no benefit to the team. In some respects, I am surprised that they stayed within the RB-TR team structure as everyone but Verstappen qualifies as a member of the Three Stooges.

I think they just want to evaluate who the strongest and weakest drivers are, the weakest one perhaps gets dropped if Juri Vips gets his super license?

If none of them are that strong then that gives Red Bull a serious problem for next season because I would be guessing that would be too late to get anyone in of a high enough level outside of the Red Bull program.

The only obvious driver is Alonso which everyone would love to see apart I would be guessing the likes of Red Bull and Honda?

.
That'd be one of the biggest surprises since.... well, since Alonso signed for McLaren. Everyone seems to think Grosjean might be available next year. Perhaps his incompetence might just work in his favour.

There'll be a hell of a lot of pressure on Albon over the next 3-4 races. I'd guess, in some strange kind of way, both Gasly & Kvyat will be hoping he can deal with it otherwise any 1 of the 3 might find themselves looking for a drive next year.

If Grosjean is released by Haas I don't see any other F1 team being interested in him.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:56 am 
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Maybe Hülkenberg is available for next year.
A solid driver but it looks like Ricciardo is beating him at the moment in the Renault. But he looks like a driver who can collect the points for the team and one who has no hidden agenda.

Alonso is no option. The man is great but also destroying teams where he drives for with his politics. Red Bull has no desire for that and Honda hasn't forgotten the day's with McLaren.
Also too expensive.

Hulk will be much cheaper and a great guy for the team. He speaks German, so that helps with Helmut, and he also speaks Dutch.
He also has a good relationship with Max already.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:33 am 
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I’m rooting for the young Thai to beat max this weekend.

Long odds but you never know.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:35 pm 
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I don't see Albon doing well until he adjusts to the car. Could be 2-3 races. Could be never.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:31 pm 
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Worldchampion wrote:
I’m rooting for the young Thai to beat max this weekend.

Long odds but you never know.


Isn't he English (as in his nationality - obviously I know he's half-Thai)?

Personally I would be happy to see him qualify within half a second of Max, given that Spa is a long track.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:39 pm 
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A.J. wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
I’m rooting for the young Thai to beat max this weekend.

Long odds but you never know.


Isn't he English (as in his nationality - obviously I know he's half-Thai)?

Personally I would be happy to see him qualify within half a second of Max, given that Spa is a long track.


British born, Thai mother and races under a Thai license.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:09 pm 
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Pretty shocking when I came to know about it. But I do not think Albon will not do any worse than Gasly. Both of them and Kvyat are still young. IMHO Kvyat should have been promoted. But I think he still has a chance for next year if he can beat Gasly. If Albon can come close to Max and not crash then I guess they might continue with him itself. Gasly has to be on par with Kvyat to save his F1 career now.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:28 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
I’m rooting for the young Thai to beat max this weekend.

Long odds but you never know.


Isn't he English (as in his nationality - obviously I know he's half-Thai)?

Personally I would be happy to see him qualify within half a second of Max, given that Spa is a long track.


British born, Thai mother and races under a Thai license.


Ah, makes sense - cheers mate! :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Jos Verstappen has stated that Albon was Max's closest rival in his karting days.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:50 pm 
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So does that count Albon 5th Verstappen 20th?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:51 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
So does that count Albon 5th Verstappen 20th?


Yep. Albon >>>>> Verstappen

[sarcasm]


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:10 pm 
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Albon made better use of the car than Gasly typically did. It's still possible that Kvyat would have been a better choice at this point, but the real mistake is still having Gasly in a car.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:25 pm 
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A.J. wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
I’m rooting for the young Thai to beat max this weekend.

Long odds but you never know.


Isn't he English (as in his nationality - obviously I know he's half-Thai)?

Personally I would be happy to see him qualify within half a second of Max, given that Spa is a long track.


British born, Thai mother and races under a Thai license.


Ah, makes sense - cheers mate! :thumbup:



Born in Britain, lived in Britain all his life, British father and he even raced under British flag previously. He switched to Thai for sponsorship reasons mainly which you can’t blame him for, but for me he is British.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:40 pm 
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It's impossible to judge Albon's pace relative to Max given he didn't put in a representative Qualifying performance due to the penalty, had to start near the back and Max crashed out on lap 1. However in one race with Red Bull Albon provided more interest and excitement than Gasly managed in all 12 appearances put together.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:14 pm 
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Very early days but I think it actually benefits Albon to have been able to start with basically a no pressure race because of the circumstances. His overtaking was decisive at least.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:19 pm 
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The question I ask is; would Gasly have been able to start at the back and finish P5? My answer is undoubtedly "no". Albon performed well. he was under control and not overly aggressive yet he got the job done and beat everyone he could possibly be expected to beat. Excellent job IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:20 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
The question I ask is; would Gasly have been able to start at the back and finish P5? My answer is undoubtedly "no". Albon performed well. he was under control and not overly aggressive yet he got the job done and beat everyone he could possibly be expected to beat. Excellent job IMO.


Agreed :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:08 pm 
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If red bull are the third best car and he’s not supposed to beat max at best he should be coming 6th. Mission accomplished so far


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:44 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Very early days but I think it actually benefits Albon to have been able to start with basically a no pressure race because of the circumstances. His overtaking was decisive at least.


I agree that it's too early to make judgements. Gasly was basically given half a season to prove himself. I would say that Albon needs to be given the rest of the season to get up to the place where he can contend with Max.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:37 pm 
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That’s it, time for an “Albon is outperforming Max” thread


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:56 pm 
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Charles LeBrad wrote:
That’s it, time for an “Albon is outperforming Max” thread

:lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:25 pm 
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I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:53 am 
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Johnson wrote:
A.J. wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
I’m rooting for the young Thai to beat max this weekend.

Long odds but you never know.


Isn't he English (as in his nationality - obviously I know he's half-Thai)?

Personally I would be happy to see him qualify within half a second of Max, given that Spa is a long track.


British born, Thai mother and races under a Thai license.


Ah, makes sense - cheers mate! :thumbup:



Born in Britain, lived in Britain all his life, British father and he even raced under British flag previously. He switched to Thai for sponsorship reasons mainly which you can’t blame him for, but for me he is British.

Yeah he's basically got the same kind of back ground as Hamilton and is more British than Thai, I wonder if racing under the Thai flag came about after he signed with Red Bull which is about a 50% owned Thai company?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:58 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.

You think that it's possible for Albon to immediately perform at 100% in a new car to him, tough crowd.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:06 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.


I don’t think it’s fair to compare Gasly and all of his races to Albon’s one race with Red Bull. Gasly has 12 races plus winter to get acclimated to the car. In Australia he started 17th and finished 11th. Albon started 14th and finished 6th. I don’t think three races with the team after a sudden switch is enough to judge what he can or can’t to with the car and the team.


Last edited by Espo on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:08 am 
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At least we can conclude he's as good as Max in overtaking, and for sure better than Gasly, whom Marko criticised as being weak in overtaking


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:29 am 
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Espo wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.


I don’t think it’s fair to compare Gasly and all of his races to Albon’s one race with Red Bull. Gasly has 12 races plus winter to get acclimated to the car. In Australia he start 17th and finished 11th. Albon started 14th and finished 6th. I don’t think three races with the team after a sudden switch is enough to judge what he can or can’t to with the car and the team.


Spa is easier to overtake than Melbourne, plus I have already said he looks slightly better than Gasly, but that in itself will be nowhere near good enough for him to keep his seat. Red Bull may have to bite the bullet and appoint someone outside their driver programme.

Gasly's poor pace in his first race was indicative of him being rubbish for the other races, but I'm being a fair sport and giving Albon till Singapore to be within 0.3 seconds of Max in Q3. If he can't do this then I am going to write him off as being tier four or lower and he needs to leave the sport ASAP, just like I wrote Gasly off in the second race once he demonstrated poor pace for a second time. Most fans want Gasly out of F1 now as he is wasting a seat in their eyes. Well if Albon gets shown up in the same way, the same treatment would be deserved for him too.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:58 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Espo wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.


I don’t think it’s fair to compare Gasly and all of his races to Albon’s one race with Red Bull. Gasly has 12 races plus winter to get acclimated to the car. In Australia he start 17th and finished 11th. Albon started 14th and finished 6th. I don’t think three races with the team after a sudden switch is enough to judge what he can or can’t to with the car and the team.


Spa is easier to overtake than Melbourne, plus I have already said he looks slightly better than Gasly, but that in itself will be nowhere near good enough for him to keep his seat. Red Bull may have to bite the bullet and appoint someone outside their driver programme.

Gasly's poor pace in his first race was indicative of him being rubbish for the other races, but I'm being a fair sport and giving Albon till Singapore to be within 0.3 seconds of Max in Q3. If he can't do this then I am going to write him off as being tier four or lower and he needs to leave the sport ASAP, just like I wrote Gasly off in the second race once he demonstrated poor pace for a second time. Most fans want Gasly out of F1 now as he is wasting a seat in their eyes. Well if Albon gets shown up in the same way, the same treatment would be deserved for him too.


Uh... You have literally nothing to compare to here. Verstappen binned it so no race pace benchmark, and there's no way on this earth Albon's engine was turned up for qualifying. Lucky for him his career isn't going to be decided by your feelings.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:11 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Espo wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.


I don’t think it’s fair to compare Gasly and all of his races to Albon’s one race with Red Bull. Gasly has 12 races plus winter to get acclimated to the car. In Australia he start 17th and finished 11th. Albon started 14th and finished 6th. I don’t think three races with the team after a sudden switch is enough to judge what he can or can’t to with the car and the team.


Spa is easier to overtake than Melbourne, plus I have already said he looks slightly better than Gasly, but that in itself will be nowhere near good enough for him to keep his seat. Red Bull may have to bite the bullet and appoint someone outside their driver programme.

Gasly's poor pace in his first race was indicative of him being rubbish for the other races, but I'm being a fair sport and giving Albon till Singapore to be within 0.3 seconds of Max in Q3. If he can't do this then I am going to write him off as being tier four or lower and he needs to leave the sport ASAP, just like I wrote Gasly off in the second race once he demonstrated poor pace for a second time. Most fans want Gasly out of F1 now as he is wasting a seat in their eyes. Well if Albon gets shown up in the same way, the same treatment would be deserved for him too.


Fair enough. I’m of the opinion that being a rookie and being thrust into the big boy team he’s got a lot of pressure and eyes on him and shouldn’t be judged on his first 3 races. Gasly should in theory perform better than Albon since he has a season under his belt, but I don’t think either one of them should be out of F1 at the moment. Red Bull did a damn good job of burning up their talent. They need to find someone that can deliver good results consistently and if that isn’t Albon, then maybe it is time to look outside the program for the time being and see if they can grab a better wcc spot.


Last edited by Espo on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:21 am 
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jono794 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Espo wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.


I don’t think it’s fair to compare Gasly and all of his races to Albon’s one race with Red Bull. Gasly has 12 races plus winter to get acclimated to the car. In Australia he start 17th and finished 11th. Albon started 14th and finished 6th. I don’t think three races with the team after a sudden switch is enough to judge what he can or can’t to with the car and the team.


Spa is easier to overtake than Melbourne, plus I have already said he looks slightly better than Gasly, but that in itself will be nowhere near good enough for him to keep his seat. Red Bull may have to bite the bullet and appoint someone outside their driver programme.

Gasly's poor pace in his first race was indicative of him being rubbish for the other races, but I'm being a fair sport and giving Albon till Singapore to be within 0.3 seconds of Max in Q3. If he can't do this then I am going to write him off as being tier four or lower and he needs to leave the sport ASAP, just like I wrote Gasly off in the second race once he demonstrated poor pace for a second time. Most fans want Gasly out of F1 now as he is wasting a seat in their eyes. Well if Albon gets shown up in the same way, the same treatment would be deserved for him too.


Uh... You have literally nothing to compare to here. Verstappen binned it so no race pace benchmark, and there's no way on this earth Albon's engine was turned up for qualifying. Lucky for him his career isn't going to be decided by your feelings.



I guarantee you that he is going to struggle, I am convinced of it. It was a woeful showing. If Max started at the back he would have come through the pack and caught Norris and finished much closer to the leaders. Also Max didn't bin it, he was crowded off the circuit by another car turning into him with some really bad driving by the other car.

Team principals have a more ruthless view of things, so while his career isn't going to be decided on my feelings, they will be decided on the likes of Christian Horner's feelings and he does not tolerate mediocrity or just plain bad driving any more than I do. A lot of people that post on here defend drivers too much and are far too forgiving, but team principals are less so as their jobs and team money is on the line. I choose to look at the data and also go on gut feel, and my gut feel very often turns out to be correct. Once I have that 'feel' for a driver, they very rarely if ever change my mind, even though I am always open for my mind to be changed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:15 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
jono794 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Espo wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.


I don’t think it’s fair to compare Gasly and all of his races to Albon’s one race with Red Bull. Gasly has 12 races plus winter to get acclimated to the car. In Australia he start 17th and finished 11th. Albon started 14th and finished 6th. I don’t think three races with the team after a sudden switch is enough to judge what he can or can’t to with the car and the team.


Spa is easier to overtake than Melbourne, plus I have already said he looks slightly better than Gasly, but that in itself will be nowhere near good enough for him to keep his seat. Red Bull may have to bite the bullet and appoint someone outside their driver programme.

Gasly's poor pace in his first race was indicative of him being rubbish for the other races, but I'm being a fair sport and giving Albon till Singapore to be within 0.3 seconds of Max in Q3. If he can't do this then I am going to write him off as being tier four or lower and he needs to leave the sport ASAP, just like I wrote Gasly off in the second race once he demonstrated poor pace for a second time. Most fans want Gasly out of F1 now as he is wasting a seat in their eyes. Well if Albon gets shown up in the same way, the same treatment would be deserved for him too.


Uh... You have literally nothing to compare to here. Verstappen binned it so no race pace benchmark, and there's no way on this earth Albon's engine was turned up for qualifying. Lucky for him his career isn't going to be decided by your feelings.



I guarantee you that he is going to struggle, I am convinced of it. It was a woeful showing. If Max started at the back he would have come through the pack and caught Norris and finished much closer to the leaders. Also Max didn't bin it, he was crowded off the circuit by another car turning into him with some really bad driving by the other car.

Team principals have a more ruthless view of things, so while his career isn't going to be decided on my feelings, they will be decided on the likes of Christian Horner's feelings and he does not tolerate mediocrity or just plain bad driving any more than I do. A lot of people that post on here defend drivers too much and are far too forgiving, but team principals are less so as their jobs and team money is on the line. I choose to look at the data and also go on gut feel, and my gut feel very often turns out to be correct. Once I have that 'feel' for a driver, they very rarely if ever change my mind, even though I am always open for my mind to be changed.

Just so we're clear - You had a preconceived notion of where Verstappen was going to finish (a deeply flawed one considering Honda's straight line deficit) - and because Albon wasn't close enough to that, he's going to struggle?

No mate.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:40 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
I hate to say it but that looked pretty poor from Albon. Yes, he's probably a bit better than Gasly but he needs to be a significant improvement over him. I can't see Red Bull challenging for second in the Constructors Cup. It's not Albon's job to finish 6th like someone above said, his job is to be in the mix and at least beat the Ferrari's when Red Bull's car is the first or second fastest car at the track, (yes RB may be the third best car overall but they are not third fastest car at every circuit).

If Albon is well off Max in Monza and Singapore, then I am finished with him as far as thinking he has what it takes at this level. We know it is possible to lose slightly to Max, as Dan showed over the last season or so; and Albon and co. need to be perhaps slightly further away from Max than Dan managed. Instead these guys are way off Max and I don't buy the idea that he wasn't trying that hard in qualifying due to the grid penalty, 0.9 seconds off Max in Q1 and 1.7 seconds off in Q2, that is pretty big, even if Spa is a long lap.

Also Albon wouldn't have beaten Norris in the race so it wasn't like Albon came through the pack and beat all the midfield.

I'm giving him a couple more races but I bet he turns out to be as slow as a sack of potatoes.

That qualifying performance was NOT indicative of his overall pace. Look at his speed down the straights. He was losing massive amounts of time on the straights to Max; which suggests to me that they didn't even put the engine in qualifying mode. At least give him a qualifying session where he actually is trying to get the best position he can. Jeez what an unreasonable assessment.


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