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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:51 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's an absolute scandal that they are letting Bottas go unpenalised and reopens the can of worms they closed after Hungary 2016.

Yep it seems dodgy but they kind of went down that route when they decided not to penalise Vettel for track limits, the can of worms had already been opened.


They're both terrible decisions for different reasons. One because it's nothing short of corrupt the other because it's a huge safety issue.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:55 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
What’s frustrating is on a day where the FIA needed to be consistent with rule enforcement they weren’t at all.

Shame on us really, for thinking that their whole message about cracking down on track limits could possibly apply to Ferrari at Monza...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:57 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
What’s frustrating is on a day where the FIA needed to be consistent with rule enforcement they weren’t at all.

Shame on us really, for thinking that their whole message about cracking down on track limits could possibly apply to Ferrari at Monza...


Tbf they've been awful everywhere. Gave Bottas a free pass on ignoring yellow flags, ignored drivers deliberately going off track and held F3 drivers to a higher standard than the F1 guys.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:19 pm 
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Nice to see that Vettel has the integrity to say "sorry guv I made a mistake". Most people would be so embarrassed.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:31 pm 
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Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:48 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's an absolute scandal that they are letting Bottas go unpenalised and reopens the can of worms they closed after Hungary 2016.

Yep it seems dodgy but they kind of went down that route when they decided not to penalise Vettel for track limits, the can of worms had already been opened.


They're both terrible decisions for different reasons. One because it's nothing short of corrupt the other because it's a huge safety issue.

The backlash since Canada is noticeable, if Bottas' time had been annulled I'm sure Mercedes would have been quickly protesting the validity of Vettel's lap?.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:48 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
What’s frustrating is on a day where the FIA needed to be consistent with rule enforcement they weren’t at all.

Shame on us really, for thinking that their whole message about cracking down on track limits could possibly apply to Ferrari at Monza...


Tbf they've been awful everywhere. Gave Bottas a free pass on ignoring yellow flags, ignored drivers deliberately going off track and held F3 drivers to a higher standard than the F1 guys.

Yeah the Bottas thing as well was very questionable though there are some who claim that he lifted (I don't see how that's the case personally).


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:53 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.

The rules state that the car has to be in contact with the track, they ignored the camera angles that showed that the car wasn't in contact with the track but instead showed a camera angle that couldn't possibly show this and said well it might have been so there's an element of doubt.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:54 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
What’s frustrating is on a day where the FIA needed to be consistent with rule enforcement they weren’t at all.

Shame on us really, for thinking that their whole message about cracking down on track limits could possibly apply to Ferrari at Monza...


Tbf they've been awful everywhere. Gave Bottas a free pass on ignoring yellow flags, ignored drivers deliberately going off track and held F3 drivers to a higher standard than the F1 guys.

Yeah the Bottas thing as well was very questionable though there are some who claim that he lifted (I don't see how that's the case personally).


He was second quickest through the third sector. That really shouldn't be a big enough lift.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:57 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.

The rules state that the car has to be in contact with the track, they ignored the camera angles that showed that the car wasn't in contact with the track but instead showed a camera angle that couldn't possibly show this and said well it might have been so there's an element of doubt.


What do you mean by 'they showed a camera angle'

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:59 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.


The stewards apparently don't have the great vision skills that some of our notable forumites apparently.
;)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:01 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.

The rules state that the car has to be in contact with the track, they ignored the camera angles that showed that the car wasn't in contact with the track but instead showed a camera angle that couldn't possibly show this and said well it might have been so there's an element of doubt.


What do you mean by 'they showed a camera angle'

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?
Supposedly there is an "overhead" angle that shows the tire overlapping the line. Unfortunately, a tire's girth through the sidewall is wider than the contact patch on the ground... which was ignored. Had it been a driver in any car other than a Ferrari, it would have not been ignored (IMO).

I wasn't aware there was a camera helicopter hovering over Parabolica for the whole hour... :-((


Last edited by DFWdude on Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:02 pm 
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The was farcical, funny and a little bit dangerous all at once. They should all be embarrassed tbh.

I don't get why Bottas was allowed to keep his time and I really don't get why it wasn't looked at.

I think Vettel was also lucky to keep his time.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Also, can they prove Hulk deliberately missed the first chicane with telemetry? If so, then I think he should get penalised.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:10 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.

The rules state that the car has to be in contact with the track, they ignored the camera angles that showed that the car wasn't in contact with the track but instead showed a camera angle that couldn't possibly show this and said well it might have been so there's an element of doubt.


What do you mean by 'they showed a camera angle'

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?

I don't know how to transfer the images, Vettel's car was not in contact with the track, however the wheel did overhang the white line.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:10 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
What’s frustrating is on a day where the FIA needed to be consistent with rule enforcement they weren’t at all.

Shame on us really, for thinking that their whole message about cracking down on track limits could possibly apply to Ferrari at Monza...


Tbf they've been awful everywhere. Gave Bottas a free pass on ignoring yellow flags, ignored drivers deliberately going off track and held F3 drivers to a higher standard than the F1 guys.

Yeah the Bottas thing as well was very questionable though there are some who claim that he lifted (I don't see how that's the case personally).


Mercedes claim he lifted by 2 tenths, I dont see it either. Bottas lifted by 2 tenths and was second quickest through that sector. He also passed the line while the red flag was out which I think also needs to get sorted, the red flag counts only by the time the teams are informed, so what happens if the teams radio is broken? Then a driver can just carry or as long as he likes?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:10 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Fia report on Vettel investigation

https://www.fia.com/file/94207/download/28948

“ Decision: No further action.

The Stewards reviewed video evidence, heard from the driver of car 5 (Sebastian Vettel) and the team representative.
The Stewards reviewed multiple camera angles, some of which appeared to show that the tyres were not in contact with the white line of the track edge however other angles appeared to show that part of the front “wheel” (when viewed from above) may have been within the bounds of the white line. This cast an element of doubt which is considered significant enough to give the “benefit of doubt” to the driver in question.
Competitors are reminded that they have the right to appeal certain decisions of the Stewards, in accordance with Article 15 of the FIA International Sporting Code and Article 9.1.1 of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules, within the applicable time limits.”

The actual wheel is wider than the tyre contact patch, so they found an angle that obscured the contact patch of the tyre.

Correct.

The onboard angle shows the tyre wall on the line thats all.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:11 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.

The rules state that the car has to be in contact with the track, they ignored the camera angles that showed that the car wasn't in contact with the track but instead showed a camera angle that couldn't possibly show this and said well it might have been so there's an element of doubt.


What do you mean by 'they showed a camera angle'

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?

I don't know how to transfer the images, Vettel's car was not in contact with the track, however the wheel did overhang the white line.


I have seen the exact same images, looks pretty clear to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:13 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Also, can they prove Hulk deliberately missed the first chicane with telemetry? If so, then I think he should get penalised.

You only need to watch his onboard to see it was deliberate he was traveling about 30mph, I'm sure my road car wouldn't have had a problem.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:14 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.

The rules state that the car has to be in contact with the track, they ignored the camera angles that showed that the car wasn't in contact with the track but instead showed a camera angle that couldn't possibly show this and said well it might have been so there's an element of doubt.


What do you mean by 'they showed a camera angle'

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?

I don't know how to transfer the images, Vettel's car was not in contact with the track, however the wheel did overhang the white line.


Yes, but didn't then also show an angle that shows it stayed on track? I saw one. That being the case, they've see pictures that show he was off track but also stayed on track. Hence benefit of the doubt I guess.

I understand this is unsatisfactory, but that's the current state of play at the moment. F1 invests hugely in wining and dinning billionaires at races but can't spend a few quid on technology to manage races.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Also, can they prove Hulk deliberately missed the first chicane with telemetry? If so, then I think he should get penalised.

You only need to watch his onboard to see it was deliberate he was traveling about 30mph, I'm sure my road car wouldn't have had a problem.


True. But if the stewards said 'we can tell you deliberately missed the first chicane by watching the footage', Renault would turn around and say prove it. Surely the FIA would need to prove it using the telemtry? Which they may be able to do, I don't know so I'm asking.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:15 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Also, can they prove Hulk deliberately missed the first chicane with telemetry? If so, then I think he should get penalised.


Rosberg and other drivers all knew he done it on purpose let alone the fans, he was driving so slow he should never had a problem going round that chicane. Stewards have been useless today.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:15 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
What’s frustrating is on a day where the FIA needed to be consistent with rule enforcement they weren’t at all.

Shame on us really, for thinking that their whole message about cracking down on track limits could possibly apply to Ferrari at Monza...


Tbf they've been awful everywhere. Gave Bottas a free pass on ignoring yellow flags, ignored drivers deliberately going off track and held F3 drivers to a higher standard than the F1 guys.

Yeah the Bottas thing as well was very questionable though there are some who claim that he lifted (I don't see how that's the case personally).


Mercedes claim he lifted by 2 tenths, I dont see it either. Bottas lifted by 2 tenths and was second quickest through that sector. He also passed the line while the red flag was out which I think also needs to get sorted, the red flag counts only by the time the teams are informed, so what happens if the teams radio is broken? Then a driver can just carry or as long as he likes?

There was a lot of things that went on that got unpunished.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Shame on us really, for thinking that their whole message about cracking down on track limits could possibly apply to Ferrari at Monza...


Tbf they've been awful everywhere. Gave Bottas a free pass on ignoring yellow flags, ignored drivers deliberately going off track and held F3 drivers to a higher standard than the F1 guys.

Yeah the Bottas thing as well was very questionable though there are some who claim that he lifted (I don't see how that's the case personally).


Mercedes claim he lifted by 2 tenths, I dont see it either. Bottas lifted by 2 tenths and was second quickest through that sector. He also passed the line while the red flag was out which I think also needs to get sorted, the red flag counts only by the time the teams are informed, so what happens if the teams radio is broken? Then a driver can just carry or as long as he likes?

There was a lot of things that went on that got unpunished.


Indeed. Very bizarre.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:19 pm 
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F1 does allow drivers to get away with things. They punished 2 thirds of the F3 cars for messing about in quali in a very similar way.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:19 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
F1 does allow drivers to get away with things. They punished 2 thirds of the F3 cars for messing about in quali in a very similar way.


I'd be very unhappy if I was one of those F3 drivers right now.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:20 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
F1 does allow drivers to get away with things. They punished 2 thirds of the F3 cars for messing about in quali in a very similar way.


I'd be very unhappy if I was one of those F3 drivers right now.


So would I. It doesn't paint a good picture for the sport if the better you are supposed to be means the less you get punished for driving stupidly and possible dangerously.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:21 pm 
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I've always thought this site is excellent with getting a great deal of the radio of the drivers.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ana ... -unfolded/


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:22 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Shame on us really, for thinking that their whole message about cracking down on track limits could possibly apply to Ferrari at Monza...


Tbf they've been awful everywhere. Gave Bottas a free pass on ignoring yellow flags, ignored drivers deliberately going off track and held F3 drivers to a higher standard than the F1 guys.

Yeah the Bottas thing as well was very questionable though there are some who claim that he lifted (I don't see how that's the case personally).


Mercedes claim he lifted by 2 tenths, I dont see it either. Bottas lifted by 2 tenths and was second quickest through that sector. He also passed the line while the red flag was out which I think also needs to get sorted, the red flag counts only by the time the teams are informed, so what happens if the teams radio is broken? Then a driver can just carry or as long as he likes?

There was a lot of things that went on that got unpunished.


Am I right in thinking a yellow flag, VSC and SC is straight away? They are not counted when the teams are informed.

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Last edited by F1_Ernie on Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:22 pm 
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Bottas and Vettel can keep their times? What a joke!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:24 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Let's be fair here, the stewards say that from some angles, including one from above, it looks like part of the tyre may have been over the white line.

The rules state that the car has to be in contact with the track, they ignored the camera angles that showed that the car wasn't in contact with the track but instead showed a camera angle that couldn't possibly show this and said well it might have been so there's an element of doubt.


What do you mean by 'they showed a camera angle'

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?

I don't know how to transfer the images, Vettel's car was not in contact with the track, however the wheel did overhang the white line.


Yes, but didn't then also show an angle that shows it stayed on track? I saw one. That being the case, they've see pictures that show he was off track but also stayed on track. Hence benefit of the doubt I guess.

I understand this is unsatisfactory, but that's the current state of play at the moment. F1 invests hugely in wining and dinning billionaires at races but can't spend a few quid on technology to manage races.

The technology (images) are at their disposal, the rules state the car has to be in contact with the track, that's a physical requirement unless the car happens to be airborne I guess?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:26 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Bottas and Vettel can keep their times? What a joke!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Agreed. Farcical decisions. Once again, the FIA proves that it lacks the backbone necessary for an effective regulatory body.

Honestly, this casts the sport into disrepute.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:28 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The rules state that the car has to be in contact with the track, they ignored the camera angles that showed that the car wasn't in contact with the track but instead showed a camera angle that couldn't possibly show this and said well it might have been so there's an element of doubt.


What do you mean by 'they showed a camera angle'

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?

I don't know how to transfer the images, Vettel's car was not in contact with the track, however the wheel did overhang the white line.


Yes, but didn't then also show an angle that shows it stayed on track? I saw one. That being the case, they've see pictures that show he was off track but also stayed on track. Hence benefit of the doubt I guess.

I understand this is unsatisfactory, but that's the current state of play at the moment. F1 invests hugely in wining and dinning billionaires at races but can't spend a few quid on technology to manage races.

The technology (images) are at their disposal, the rules state the car has to be in contact with the track, that's a physical requirement unless the car happens to be airborne I guess?


Yes, and to be fair, even as a die-hard Ferrari fan, I too thought he should have the lap removed, but it's completely and utterly true that there is at least one camera angle where it appears the car could still have a fraction of a tyre on the white line. I'd say a decent lawyer would use that to ascertain that it was not 100% proven that he left the track limits, hence the FIA having no choice.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:29 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Also, can they prove Hulk deliberately missed the first chicane with telemetry? If so, then I think he should get penalised.

You only need to watch his onboard to see it was deliberate he was traveling about 30mph, I'm sure my road car wouldn't have had a problem.


True. But if the stewards said 'we can tell you deliberately missed the first chicane by watching the footage', Renault would turn around and say prove it. Surely the FIA would need to prove it using the telemtry? Which they may be able to do, I don't know so I'm asking.

Do we really need telemetry to see that the Hulk could easily have made the corner?

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:38 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I've always thought this site is excellent with getting a great deal of the radio of the drivers.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ana ... -unfolded/

So Sainz and the Hulk blocked the track and prevented the cars from behind posting a lap time and there's no punishment, today the stewards were noticeable by their absence.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:40 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tbf they've been awful everywhere. Gave Bottas a free pass on ignoring yellow flags, ignored drivers deliberately going off track and held F3 drivers to a higher standard than the F1 guys.

Yeah the Bottas thing as well was very questionable though there are some who claim that he lifted (I don't see how that's the case personally).


Mercedes claim he lifted by 2 tenths, I dont see it either. Bottas lifted by 2 tenths and was second quickest through that sector. He also passed the line while the red flag was out which I think also needs to get sorted, the red flag counts only by the time the teams are informed, so what happens if the teams radio is broken? Then a driver can just carry or as long as he likes?

There was a lot of things that went on that got unpunished.


Am I right in thinking a yellow flag, VSC and SC is straight away? They are not counted when the teams are informed.

I believe they are instantaneous?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:43 pm 
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I hate to be a downer to this glorious bitchfest, but this was only qualifying. Tomorrow we will have a race and with many cars out of position there will be ample opportunity for them to sort themselves out.

Max will make a charge up the field from the back. Kimi will pass at least a few cars. I plan on watching Lance Stroll advance madly to the rear and get passed by Checo.

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Last edited by Mort Canard on Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:45 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
What do you mean by 'they showed a camera angle'

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?

I don't know how to transfer the images, Vettel's car was not in contact with the track, however the wheel did overhang the white line.


Yes, but didn't then also show an angle that shows it stayed on track? I saw one. That being the case, they've see pictures that show he was off track but also stayed on track. Hence benefit of the doubt I guess.

I understand this is unsatisfactory, but that's the current state of play at the moment. F1 invests hugely in wining and dinning billionaires at races but can't spend a few quid on technology to manage races.

The technology (images) are at their disposal, the rules state the car has to be in contact with the track, that's a physical requirement unless the car happens to be airborne I guess?


Yes, and to be fair, even as a die-hard Ferrari fan, I too thought he should have the lap removed, but it's completely and utterly true that there is at least one camera angle where it appears the car could still have a fraction of a tyre on the white line. I'd say a decent lawyer would use that to ascertain that it was not 100% proven that he left the track limits, hence the FIA having no choice.

Not when there are images that show it not to be true, you shouldn't be able to use an image that's blocked by a part of the car and say well the tyre might have been touching the white line.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:48 pm 
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Location: Stratford
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I've always thought this site is excellent with getting a great deal of the radio of the drivers.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ana ... -unfolded/


It seems Bottas had a DRS issue reading his transcript?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:49 pm 
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Posts: 4118
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:

Who showed it and to whom did they show it to?

I don't know how to transfer the images, Vettel's car was not in contact with the track, however the wheel did overhang the white line.


Yes, but didn't then also show an angle that shows it stayed on track? I saw one. That being the case, they've see pictures that show he was off track but also stayed on track. Hence benefit of the doubt I guess.

I understand this is unsatisfactory, but that's the current state of play at the moment. F1 invests hugely in wining and dinning billionaires at races but can't spend a few quid on technology to manage races.

The technology (images) are at their disposal, the rules state the car has to be in contact with the track, that's a physical requirement unless the car happens to be airborne I guess?


Yes, and to be fair, even as a die-hard Ferrari fan, I too thought he should have the lap removed, but it's completely and utterly true that there is at least one camera angle where it appears the car could still have a fraction of a tyre on the white line. I'd say a decent lawyer would use that to ascertain that it was not 100% proven that he left the track limits, hence the FIA having no choice.

Not when there are images that show it not to be true, you shouldn't be able to use an image that's blocked by a part of the car and say well the tyre might have been touching the white line.[/quote]


But SKY showed a video of him going through the corner, a view from behind, that appeared to show the front right kept on the white line. It wasn't obscured by anything. It was just one angle. Like I said, I fully expected it to be cancelled, but if one angle shows he was possibly OK, that's all it will take I guess. Not saying I agree, just playing devils advocate.

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