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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:47 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Not just the braking area though, all parts of corners are governed by the same rules and the stewards let Sainz off the hook for a bigger squeeze off the track.

I don't believe that's true, no penalty for Verstappen in Austria.


But a penalty for Rosberg in Germany 2016 and K-Mag in Hungary 2017 at the exit of the corner under the same rules as we have today.

Rosberg on Verstappen?

That was on corner entry, I don't remember many things that involve KMag.


Verstappen was forced off the track at the corner exit, over the curbs. At corner entry there was plenty of space for him.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:47 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Not just the braking area though, all parts of corners are governed by the same rules and the stewards let Sainz off the hook for a bigger squeeze off the track.

I don't believe that's true, no penalty for Verstappen in Austria.


But a penalty for Rosberg in Germany 2016 and K-Mag in Hungary 2017 at the exit of the corner under the same rules as we have today.

Rosebrg was not at the exit. He didn't even try to make the corner. That's why was penalized.


Corner exit dude. It was a standard crowd off. Verstappen leaves the circuit at the corner exit.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:53 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Not just the braking area though, all parts of corners are governed by the same rules and the stewards let Sainz off the hook for a bigger squeeze off the track.

I don't believe that's true, no penalty for Verstappen in Austria.


But a penalty for Rosberg in Germany 2016 and K-Mag in Hungary 2017 at the exit of the corner under the same rules as we have today.

Rosebrg was not at the exit. He didn't even try to make the corner. That's why was penalized.


Corner exit dude. It was a standard crowd off. Verstappen leaves the circuit at the corner exit.

No it wasn't. Crowding off doesn't come before turn in. It comes AFTER you have made the corner, on exit. Watch the Rosberg incident. Nico crowded Hamilton out before even turning the wheel.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:54 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I don't believe that's true, no penalty for Verstappen in Austria.


But a penalty for Rosberg in Germany 2016 and K-Mag in Hungary 2017 at the exit of the corner under the same rules as we have today.

Rosebrg was not at the exit. He didn't even try to make the corner. That's why was penalized.


Corner exit dude. It was a standard crowd off. Verstappen leaves the circuit at the corner exit.

No it wasn't. Crowding off doesn't come before turn in. It comes AFTER you have made the corner, on exit. Watch the Rosberg incident. Nico crowded Hamilton out before even turning the wheel.


Sandman, I think you're thinking about Austria 2016. F1 Racer its talking about Germany the same year when Rosberg got a penalty for an incident after the hairpin with a Red Bull driver.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:57 pm 
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JN23 wrote:

Sandman, I think you're thinking about Austria 2016. F1 Racer its talking about Germany the same year when Rosberg got a penalty for an incident after the hairpin with a Red Bull driver.

I see, my mistake. Apologies.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:06 pm 
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That was also the first time Ferrari have won consecutive races since the Australian and Bahrain Grand prix's at the start of 2018.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:18 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Vettel is going downhill. Has he in his mind decided to retire at the end of this year?

I expected Vettel to reasonably comfortably beat Leclerc this year. I don't think that now. Not saying that many are saying this on this forum, but I don't like those who imply that the WDCs he had don't show how good he really is. I think he has got worse since then. At that stage when he was in a top car, i think he was at one point right up there at the level of Hamilton at his apsolute best. But he just can't do this consistently anymore. He used to be great, but isn't anymore.


Wow, you thought that Leclerc was only about as good as an old Kimi?

Given that around 70% of the forum voters thought Vettel would get the better of Leclerc, I don't see how this is an unusual expectation...

There were 4 options. and was one or other driver. Either just ahead or by a mile. Quite a large majority went for Vettel.

There was also under 10% more voted for voted for Leclerc only just beating Vettel vs vettel dominating Leclerc.

Not sure why you are surprised. Most of the forum expected Vettel to beat leclerc.


You are actually right, 68% thought Vettel would win apart from a few dissenters like me who pretty much nailed the current situation.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15267&start=40#p769896

LeClerc by at least an edge if not more. Vettel is now potentially fighting to retain his seat now that his Kimi comfort blanket is leaving. If Giovinazzi does well against Kimi he could take his seat in 2021. Arrivabene thinks Vettel is great but in reality he's fluffed two seasons now in which he had a great potentially WDC winning car. They would have been better off with getting Alonso back for this season rather than Kimi especially as he was interested last year.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:19 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Michael Massi's interview with Davidson on Sky cleared a lot of this up. The teams and drivers asked for the black and white flag to be used more rather than having to either issue a penalty or condone the practice. Massi said had there been contact the stewards would likely have given a penalty.


But they have to be more consistent. At the moment, the cognitive dissonance among the stewards is at astronomical levels.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:25 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Wow, you thought that Leclerc was only about as good as an old Kimi?

Given that around 70% of the forum voters thought Vettel would get the better of Leclerc, I don't see how this is an unusual expectation...

There were 4 options. and was one or other driver. Either just ahead or by a mile. Quite a large majority went for Vettel.

There was also under 10% more voted for voted for Leclerc only just beating Vettel vs vettel dominating Leclerc.

Not sure why you are surprised. Most of the forum expected Vettel to beat leclerc.


Then they all thought Leclerc was only about as good as an old Kimi, as Vettel reasonably comfortably beat Kimi from 2015 to 2018.

well overall this season, i don't think he has been much better than kimi in general - or bottas. Vettel is just making so many mistakes. And earlier on, so was leclerc. Both have not had a brillient season. Leclerc has had a mix of very good but a few being very poor. but certainly not as bad as vettel. Vettel was better when he was with kimi.If Vettel brings himself togeather and Leclerc still makes the odd mistake like he did in Monaco and Germany, then Vettel still has a chance to get back ahead.

Leclerc has clearly been so much better than Kimi.

I was referring to leclerc this season, and kimi in general over the past few years. Leclerc has shown more signs of speed, certainly, but also more big mistakes. He is overall better so far, but i wouldn't say massively. But I do expect that to change.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:30 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Michael Massi's interview with Davidson on Sky cleared a lot of this up. The teams and drivers asked for the black and white flag to be used more rather than having to either issue a penalty or condone the practice. Massi said had there been contact the stewards would likely have given a penalty.

It fell short of missing the chicane incident though and how that was ignored by the stewards.


You mean when Leclerc missed the chicane? That sort of stuff never, ever gets penalised.

Not the first time but it normally gets a warning but of course Lerclerc was already on a warning, in this instance the stewards totally let it be, you keep cutting chicanes and see were it normally gets you.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:31 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Not just the braking area though, all parts of corners are governed by the same rules and the stewards let Sainz off the hook for a bigger squeeze off the track.

I don't believe that's true, no penalty for Verstappen in Austria.


But a penalty for Rosberg in Germany 2016 and K-Mag in Hungary 2017 at the exit of the corner under the same rules as we have today.

Rosberg on Verstappen?

That was on corner entry, I don't remember many things that involve KMag.


Verstappen was forced off the track at the corner exit, over the curbs. At corner entry there was plenty of space for him.

That's corner entry.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:35 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Given that around 70% of the forum voters thought Vettel would get the better of Leclerc, I don't see how this is an unusual expectation...

There were 4 options. and was one or other driver. Either just ahead or by a mile. Quite a large majority went for Vettel.

There was also under 10% more voted for voted for Leclerc only just beating Vettel vs vettel dominating Leclerc.

Not sure why you are surprised. Most of the forum expected Vettel to beat leclerc.


Then they all thought Leclerc was only about as good as an old Kimi, as Vettel reasonably comfortably beat Kimi from 2015 to 2018.

well overall this season, i don't think he has been much better than kimi in general - or bottas. Vettel is just making so many mistakes. And earlier on, so was leclerc. Both have not had a brillient season. Leclerc has had a mix of very good but a few being very poor. but certainly not as bad as vettel. Vettel was better when he was with kimi.If Vettel brings himself togeather and Leclerc still makes the odd mistake like he did in Monaco and Germany, then Vettel still has a chance to get back ahead.

Leclerc has clearly been so much better than Kimi.

I was referring to leclerc this season, and kimi in general over the past few years. Leclerc has shown more signs of speed, certainly, but also more big mistakes. He is overall better so far, but i wouldn't say massively. But I do expect that to change.

From getting beat by Vettel comfortably to edging Vettel I would say is quite a big difference?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:40 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

But a penalty for Rosberg in Germany 2016 and K-Mag in Hungary 2017 at the exit of the corner under the same rules as we have today.

Rosberg on Verstappen?

That was on corner entry, I don't remember many things that involve KMag.


Verstappen was forced off the track at the corner exit, over the curbs. At corner entry there was plenty of space for him.

That's corner entry.


That's corner exit.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Then they all thought Leclerc was only about as good as an old Kimi, as Vettel reasonably comfortably beat Kimi from 2015 to 2018.

well overall this season, i don't think he has been much better than kimi in general - or bottas. Vettel is just making so many mistakes. And earlier on, so was leclerc. Both have not had a brillient season. Leclerc has had a mix of very good but a few being very poor. but certainly not as bad as vettel. Vettel was better when he was with kimi.If Vettel brings himself togeather and Leclerc still makes the odd mistake like he did in Monaco and Germany, then Vettel still has a chance to get back ahead.

Leclerc has clearly been so much better than Kimi.

I was referring to leclerc this season, and kimi in general over the past few years. Leclerc has shown more signs of speed, certainly, but also more big mistakes. He is overall better so far, but i wouldn't say massively. But I do expect that to change.

From getting beat by Vettel comfortably to edging Vettel I would say is quite a big difference?

Vettel is looking so much worse this year than the last and infact most of the time he was with Kimi. Kimi often looked better when Vettel had started turning to the way he is now. He has a much more recent win.

I think how bad Vettel now is is making Leclerc perhaps look a bit better than he is. His season has certainly not not been perfect overall and he is only slightly ahead of vettel who everyone said is doing terribly. I still think what I said is reasonable. I don't think leclerc is that much better than how kimi has on average been over the past few years.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:11 pm 
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Who gained the most positions in this race? I thought sure it was Verstappen, coming from dead last to 8th (+12). Someone else?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:11 pm 
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Brilliant win from Leclerc there. Dancing right on the line of the regulations, and probably dipping a toe or two on the wrong side of it, to keep the Mercedes behind.

He won that race because he lost Austria.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:14 pm 
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DFWdude wrote:
Who gained the most positions in this race? I thought sure it was Verstappen, coming from dead last to 8th (+12). Someone else?


Checo started 18th - finished 7th! I think the same amount of gains!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I expected Vettel to reasonably comfortably beat Leclerc this year. I don't think that now. Not saying that many are saying this on this forum, but I don't like those who imply that the WDCs he had don't show how good he really is. I think he has got worse since then. At that stage when he was in a top car, i think he was at one point right up there at the level of Hamilton at his apsolute best. But he just can't do this consistently anymore. He used to be great, but isn't anymore.


Wow, you thought that Leclerc was only about as good as an old Kimi?

Given that around 70% of the forum voters thought Vettel would get the better of Leclerc, I don't see how this is an unusual expectation...

There were 4 options. and was one or other driver. Either just ahead or by a mile. Quite a large majority went for Vettel.

There was also under 10% more voted for voted for Leclerc only just beating Vettel vs vettel dominating Leclerc.

Not sure why you are surprised. Most of the forum expected Vettel to beat leclerc.


Then they all thought Leclerc was only about as good as an old Kimi, as Vettel reasonably comfortably beat Kimi from 2015 to 2018.

It's actually not true anyway, the biggest percentage thought that Vettel would beat Leclerc but it would be close.


Exactly!!! Most of us guessed that the teammate war at Ferrari would be close and gave the benefit to Seb by virtue of experience. Now that Charles has some experience behind him the balance has tipped and sooner than expected.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:33 pm 
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DFWdude wrote:
Who gained the most positions in this race? I thought sure it was Verstappen, coming from dead last to 8th (+12). Someone else?

Both Verstappen and Perez gained 11 positions.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:15 pm 
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Just watched the race again and definitely think Leclerc should have been penalised. Not for the 1st incident alone but after he missed the chicane he made a double movement to block Hamilton. Didn't think that was allowed without leaving a cars width


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:35 pm 
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Stroll should have got same penalty as Vettel, when he disruoted the following Toro Rosso.
Leclerc should have got at least one penatlty..


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:17 pm 
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mpls2 wrote:
Stroll should have got same penalty as Vettel, when he disruoted the following Toro Rosso.
Leclerc should have got at least one penatlty..


It is strange how Vettel got a harsher penalty. The stewards said that it was because Vettel hit another car. Surely it was simply down to luck that Stroll didn't cause his own accident rather than him coming back on better than Vettel did.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:31 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
mpls2 wrote:
Stroll should have got same penalty as Vettel, when he disruoted the following Toro Rosso.
Leclerc should have got at least one penatlty..


It is strange how Vettel got a harsher penalty. The stewards said that it was because Vettel hit another car. Surely it was simply down to luck that Stroll didn't cause his own accident rather than him coming back on better than Vettel did.

I think it's more that Stroll was still on the circuit. So even staying put was not really safe. He was basically put in a very bad position through no fault of his own.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:42 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Given that around 70% of the forum voters thought Vettel would get the better of Leclerc, I don't see how this is an unusual expectation...

There were 4 options. and was one or other driver. Either just ahead or by a mile. Quite a large majority went for Vettel.

There was also under 10% more voted for voted for Leclerc only just beating Vettel vs vettel dominating Leclerc.

Not sure why you are surprised. Most of the forum expected Vettel to beat leclerc.


Then they all thought Leclerc was only about as good as an old Kimi, as Vettel reasonably comfortably beat Kimi from 2015 to 2018.

well overall this season, i don't think he has been much better than kimi in general - or bottas. Vettel is just making so many mistakes. And earlier on, so was leclerc. Both have not had a brillient season. Leclerc has had a mix of very good but a few being very poor. but certainly not as bad as vettel. Vettel was better when he was with kimi.If Vettel brings himself togeather and Leclerc still makes the odd mistake like he did in Monaco and Germany, then Vettel still has a chance to get back ahead.

Leclerc has clearly been so much better than Kimi.

I was referring to leclerc this season, and kimi in general over the past few years. Leclerc has shown more signs of speed, certainly, but also more big mistakes. He is overall better so far, but i wouldn't say massively. But I do expect that to change.

I'm afraid I have to view Kimi as being consistently slow, the 2019 Ferrari is not as good as the Ferrari of the past 2 years yet Leclerc has won 2 races, it should have been 3 races, was close to 4 races, Kimi won 1 race in 4 years.

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Last edited by pokerman on Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:43 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

But a penalty for Rosberg in Germany 2016 and K-Mag in Hungary 2017 at the exit of the corner under the same rules as we have today.

Rosberg on Verstappen?

That was on corner entry, I don't remember many things that involve KMag.


Verstappen was forced off the track at the corner exit, over the curbs. At corner entry there was plenty of space for him.

That's corner entry.


That's corner exit.

It must be a different incident to the one that I remember, is it Austria that I am remembering?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
spiritone wrote:
Merc lost the race in the pits, stopped to soon. When you know your car is better on it's tires why would you stop first? Hamiltons best chance was right after the pit stop but both times when he had drs leclair had drs at the same time on a renault. Good race though.

Well they allowed Bottas to have that delta but......

But...?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:46 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
well overall this season, i don't think he has been much better than kimi in general - or bottas. Vettel is just making so many mistakes. And earlier on, so was leclerc. Both have not had a brillient season. Leclerc has had a mix of very good but a few being very poor. but certainly not as bad as vettel. Vettel was better when he was with kimi.If Vettel brings himself togeather and Leclerc still makes the odd mistake like he did in Monaco and Germany, then Vettel still has a chance to get back ahead.

Leclerc has clearly been so much better than Kimi.

I was referring to leclerc this season, and kimi in general over the past few years. Leclerc has shown more signs of speed, certainly, but also more big mistakes. He is overall better so far, but i wouldn't say massively. But I do expect that to change.

From getting beat by Vettel comfortably to edging Vettel I would say is quite a big difference?

Vettel is looking so much worse this year than the last and infact most of the time he was with Kimi. Kimi often looked better when Vettel had started turning to the way he is now. He has a much more recent win.

I think how bad Vettel now is is making Leclerc perhaps look a bit better than he is. His season has certainly not not been perfect overall and he is only slightly ahead of vettel who everyone said is doing terribly. I still think what I said is reasonable. I don't think leclerc is that much better than how kimi has on average been over the past few years.

Vettel looks worse because the Ferrari is worse, the mistakes remain similar to 2017 and 2018, in a worse car Leclerc is doing better than what Kimi managed to do.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:51 pm 
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sidders wrote:
Just watched the race again and definitely think Leclerc should have been penalised. Not for the 1st incident alone but after he missed the chicane he made a double movement to block Hamilton. Didn't think that was allowed without leaving a cars width

Watched the C4 highlights both DC and Webber both called forcing Hamilton off the track a slam dunk penalty, and then when Leclerc missed the chicane they questioned why he wasn't penalised when he supposedly was already on a warning, the warning was really look we did something when really nothing was actually done.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
spiritone wrote:
Merc lost the race in the pits, stopped to soon. When you know your car is better on it's tires why would you stop first? Hamiltons best chance was right after the pit stop but both times when he had drs leclair had drs at the same time on a renault. Good race though.

Well they allowed Bottas to have that delta but......

But...?

...he couldn't make it work.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
spiritone wrote:
Merc lost the race in the pits, stopped to soon. When you know your car is better on it's tires why would you stop first? Hamiltons best chance was right after the pit stop but both times when he had drs leclair had drs at the same time on a renault. Good race though.

Well they allowed Bottas to have that delta but......

But...?

...he couldn't make it work.

Oh I thought you were implying some unfair treatment where Lewis wasn't allowed whilst Bottas was.

At the end the delta wasn't enough as there wasn't any the advantage left because Leclerc was on the hards, as the race wore on he got an ever increasing advantage.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:03 pm 
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I wanted Leclerc to win that one, but the crowding incident was deliberate, and unfair.

I also think his defending on Curva Grande was close to, or beyond the line, and maybe only gets away with that as Curva Grande is a "corner" that is effectively a straight (for F1 cars)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:01 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
spiritone wrote:
Merc lost the race in the pits, stopped to soon. When you know your car is better on it's tires why would you stop first? Hamiltons best chance was right after the pit stop but both times when he had drs leclair had drs at the same time on a renault. Good race though.

Well they allowed Bottas to have that delta but......

But...?

...he couldn't make it work.

Oh I thought you were implying some unfair treatment where Lewis wasn't allowed whilst Bottas was.

At the end the delta wasn't enough as there wasn't any the advantage left because Leclerc was on the hards, as the race wore on he got an ever increasing advantage.

We don't really know because we can't really compare Hamilton with Bottas.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:04 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
sidders wrote:
Just watched the race again and definitely think Leclerc should have been penalised. Not for the 1st incident alone but after he missed the chicane he made a double movement to block Hamilton. Didn't think that was allowed without leaving a cars width

Watched the C4 highlights both DC and Webber both called forcing Hamilton off the track a slam dunk penalty, and then when Leclerc missed the chicane they questioned why he wasn't penalised when he supposedly was already on a warning, the warning was really look we did something when really nothing was actually done.

That would have been a 5-sec in the past but it seems that the powers-that-be want to make more use of the 'yellow card,' or warning. As for missing the chicane, that actually compromised LeClerc so there was no advantage gained. His defence in the Curve Grande immediately afterwards was more questionable.
I'm sure that it's just a coincidence that this reluctance to dish out penalties left, right and centre has been implemented at Monza!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:04 pm 
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Badgeronimous wrote:
I wanted Leclerc to win that one, but the crowding incident was deliberate, and unfair.

I also think his defending on Curva Grande was close to, or beyond the line, and maybe only gets away with that as Curva Grande is a "corner" that is effectively a straight (for F1 cars)

Yep it sounds deliberate, given how Vettel was unhappy with Leclerc in qualifying was Leclerc happy to defend what he already had, is Leclerc the baby faced assassin?

Anyway onto the incident with Hamilton.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14586 ... t-hamilton

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:10 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sidders wrote:
Just watched the race again and definitely think Leclerc should have been penalised. Not for the 1st incident alone but after he missed the chicane he made a double movement to block Hamilton. Didn't think that was allowed without leaving a cars width

Watched the C4 highlights both DC and Webber both called forcing Hamilton off the track a slam dunk penalty, and then when Leclerc missed the chicane they questioned why he wasn't penalised when he supposedly was already on a warning, the warning was really look we did something when really nothing was actually done.

That would have been a 5-sec in the past but it seems that the powers-that-be want to make more use of the 'yellow card,' or warning. As for missing the chicane, that actually compromised LeClerc so there was no advantage gained. His defence in the Curve Grande immediately afterwards was more questionable.
I'm sure that it's just a coincidence that this reluctance to dish out penalties left, right and centre has been implemented at Monza!

It started with Vettel in Q3, Ferrari winning in Italy was clearly good for the sport along with earlier wins this year for Verstappen, I understand and I'm quite cool with it, just calling a spade a spade, missing chicanes normally gets a warning to not do it again it's often called a joker card, in this instance I can't help but feel how do you give a warning to a driver that's already got a warning?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:15 pm 
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Leclerc is driving to the rules and precedent set by officials you can't blame him, he drove respectfully in Austria and lost the win as a result because stewards were too treat to give Verstappen a deserved penalty


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sidders wrote:
Just watched the race again and definitely think Leclerc should have been penalised. Not for the 1st incident alone but after he missed the chicane he made a double movement to block Hamilton. Didn't think that was allowed without leaving a cars width

Watched the C4 highlights both DC and Webber both called forcing Hamilton off the track a slam dunk penalty, and then when Leclerc missed the chicane they questioned why he wasn't penalised when he supposedly was already on a warning, the warning was really look we did something when really nothing was actually done.

That would have been a 5-sec in the past but it seems that the powers-that-be want to make more use of the 'yellow card,' or warning. As for missing the chicane, that actually compromised LeClerc so there was no advantage gained. His defence in the Curve Grande immediately afterwards was more questionable.
I'm sure that it's just a coincidence that this reluctance to dish out penalties left, right and centre has been implemented at Monza!

It started with Vettel in Q3, Ferrari winning in Italy was clearly good for the sport along with earlier wins this year for Verstappen, I understand and I'm quite cool with it, just calling a spade a spade, missing chicanes normally gets a warning to not do it again it's often called a joker card, in this instance I can't help but feel how do you give a warning to a driver that's already got a warning?

I haven't really had a good look at Vettel's positioning in Q3 so won't comment on that. I've offered my view in that LeClerc was more disadvantaged, rather than advantaged by missing the chicane. I'd be more concerned about his movement on Curva Grande just as Hamilton was set to draw out from his slipstream but, as someone has already mentioned, this is still under full throttle so is probably treated as a straight for that purpose.
... or I could be cynical and put the words Ferrari amd Monza into the same sentence...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:22 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sidders wrote:
Just watched the race again and definitely think Leclerc should have been penalised. Not for the 1st incident alone but after he missed the chicane he made a double movement to block Hamilton. Didn't think that was allowed without leaving a cars width

Watched the C4 highlights both DC and Webber both called forcing Hamilton off the track a slam dunk penalty, and then when Leclerc missed the chicane they questioned why he wasn't penalised when he supposedly was already on a warning, the warning was really look we did something when really nothing was actually done.

That would have been a 5-sec in the past but it seems that the powers-that-be want to make more use of the 'yellow card,' or warning. As for missing the chicane, that actually compromised LeClerc so there was no advantage gained. His defence in the Curve Grande immediately afterwards was more questionable.
I'm sure that it's just a coincidence that this reluctance to dish out penalties left, right and centre has been implemented at Monza!

It started with Vettel in Q3, Ferrari winning in Italy was clearly good for the sport along with earlier wins this year for Verstappen, I understand and I'm quite cool with it, just calling a spade a spade, missing chicanes normally gets a warning to not do it again it's often called a joker card, in this instance I can't help but feel how do you give a warning to a driver that's already got a warning?

I haven't really had a good look at Vettel's positioning in Q3 so won't comment on that. I've offered my view in that LeClerc was more disadvantaged, rather than advantaged by missing the chicane. I'd be more concerned about his movement on Curva Grande just as Hamilton was set to draw out from his slipstream but, as someone has already mentioned, this is still under full throttle so is probably treated as a straight for that purpose.
... or I could be cynical and put the words Ferrari amd Monza into the same sentence...

You really need to look at the pictures regarding Vettel in Q3 then you have to wonder why the lap wasn't deleted and if they can do that then what can they do in the race?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Watched the C4 highlights both DC and Webber both called forcing Hamilton off the track a slam dunk penalty, and then when Leclerc missed the chicane they questioned why he wasn't penalised when he supposedly was already on a warning, the warning was really look we did something when really nothing was actually done.

That would have been a 5-sec in the past but it seems that the powers-that-be want to make more use of the 'yellow card,' or warning. As for missing the chicane, that actually compromised LeClerc so there was no advantage gained. His defence in the Curve Grande immediately afterwards was more questionable.
I'm sure that it's just a coincidence that this reluctance to dish out penalties left, right and centre has been implemented at Monza!

It started with Vettel in Q3, Ferrari winning in Italy was clearly good for the sport along with earlier wins this year for Verstappen, I understand and I'm quite cool with it, just calling a spade a spade, missing chicanes normally gets a warning to not do it again it's often called a joker card, in this instance I can't help but feel how do you give a warning to a driver that's already got a warning?

I haven't really had a good look at Vettel's positioning in Q3 so won't comment on that. I've offered my view in that LeClerc was more disadvantaged, rather than advantaged by missing the chicane. I'd be more concerned about his movement on Curva Grande just as Hamilton was set to draw out from his slipstream but, as someone has already mentioned, this is still under full throttle so is probably treated as a straight for that purpose.
... or I could be cynical and put the words Ferrari amd Monza into the same sentence...

You really need to look at the pictures regarding Vettel in Q3 then you have to wonder why the lap wasn't deleted and if they can do that then what can they do in the race?

After a (admittedly brief!) search I've had little joy in finding relevant pictures but did read an article stating that, besides the rule that states that a portion of the car should remain in contact with the circuit, the race director's notes for this weekend referenced all four wheels being over the white lines that defines the circuit limit. This ambiguity appears to have saved Vettel in terms of his Q3 time.
... or I could be cynical, etc etc..!
Edited for spelling

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:37 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
That would have been a 5-sec in the past but it seems that the powers-that-be want to make more use of the 'yellow card,' or warning. As for missing the chicane, that actually compromised LeClerc so there was no advantage gained. His defence in the Curve Grande immediately afterwards was more questionable.
I'm sure that it's just a coincidence that this reluctance to dish out penalties left, right and centre has been implemented at Monza!

It started with Vettel in Q3, Ferrari winning in Italy was clearly good for the sport along with earlier wins this year for Verstappen, I understand and I'm quite cool with it, just calling a spade a spade, missing chicanes normally gets a warning to not do it again it's often called a joker card, in this instance I can't help but feel how do you give a warning to a driver that's already got a warning?

I haven't really had a good look at Vettel's positioning in Q3 so won't comment on that. I've offered my view in that LeClerc was more disadvantaged, rather than advantaged by missing the chicane. I'd be more concerned about his movement on Curva Grande just as Hamilton was set to draw out from his slipstream but, as someone has already mentioned, this is still under full throttle so is probably treated as a straight for that purpose.
... or I could be cynical and put the words Ferrari amd Monza into the same sentence...

You really need to look at the pictures regarding Vettel in Q3 then you have to wonder why the lap wasn't deleted and if they can do that then what can they do in the race?

After a (admittedly brief!) search I've had little joy in finding relevant pictures but did read an article stating that, besides the rule that states that a portion of the car should remain in contact with the circuit, the race director's notes for this weekend referenced all four wheels being over the white lines that defines the circuit limit. This ambiguity appears to have saved Vettel in terms of his Q3 time.
... or I could be cynical, etc etc..!
Edited for spelling

Can I pm you?

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