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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:55 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Vettel probably apologizing to Stroll after the race. A sweet gesture nonetheless.



:nod: Good on him.

Off track I've always really liked Vettel.

Vettel's a good guy.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:57 am 
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angrypirate wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Was it an indiscretion? I cant see how. He ran wide, rejoined in a safe manner & gained no advantage. This action is not unusual in the sport.


I think he did gain an advantage, he cut the corner, if he goes down the slip road he loses the place, thats the point isn't it?


Not if there wasn't an edict issued by the FIA that they must use the slip road. If there was no instruction then it was a perfectly legitimate move & shouldn't be considered for censure. Hamilton wasn't challenging for the corner so Leclerc gained no advantage. I understand where you're coming from & I don't necessarily disagree, but i'm pretty sure the rules been for quite a while that if a driver cuts a corner while not battling for the corner, it's acceptable to safely re-enter the circuit & return to the situation as it was prior to the corner (please don't ask me to look it up. It's 12.30am here & i'm tired but i'm pretty sure i've heard the commentators say it once or twice).

A couple of examples of where this has happened in the past.

Hamilton & Rosberg, no penalty. Verstappen penalised as he was under direct challenge for the corner by Vettel



Hamilton, no penalty.

If memory serves me right, Hamilton at Monaco actually got a verbal "dont do it again" warning.

Which is par for the course for such things but with Leclerc who was already under a warning the stewards said he did nothing wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:00 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
[
FormulaFun wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Confused by the BIB. When did Hamilton hit Verstappen in Monaco?


When Verstappen tried to go inside at the tunnel exit. Palmer and a few others suggested Ham gave him a little nudge with the back wheel to give him an excuse to straight line the chicane. If you compare previous laps from the actual race you can see Ham taking a different (shallower) line before his back wheel makes contact. Which was the basis for some arguing Hamilton orchestrated it.
The incident at 4:50.



That would risk a puncture or something to defend an overtake that was never going to happen tho so it's reaching a bit


Not that I'm agreeing with the argument but it wasn't to defend the overtake. It was for Hamilton to have an excuse to straight line the chicane and gain a few seconds respite.

My point being that if either Hamilton or Vettel wanted to put manners on Leclerc as payback for what happened at Monza they are both skilled enough to do it and get away with it. In the same way that Leclerc 'forgot' how wide his car was when alongside Hamilton and a plethora of drivers regularly ' couldn't see him in my mirrors'.


That would be even stupider to risk a puncture just to cut a chicane? I mean if he was that determined to do it then he would have just "outbraked" himself and cut it like loads of others do - a la Rosberg or Leclerc no need to risk the puncture.

Leclerc has admitted that he intentionally put Hamilton off the circuit, he didn't forget

Yeah the precedent he believed was set in Austria although that was more so corner exit.

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2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:09 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Was it an indiscretion? I cant see how. He ran wide, rejoined in a safe manner & gained no advantage. This action is not unusual in the sport.


I think he did gain an advantage, he cut the corner, if he goes down the slip road he loses the place, thats the point isn't it?

Normally a driver does get a warning for doing that especially when under pressure from another driver as in don't do it again, however Leclerc was supposedly already under a black and white flag warning so it was kind of like oh we can't be giving him another warning because it makes the black and white flag seem somewhat meaningless so nothing to see there.

Hadn't he already missed the slip road? He had to go over the extra kerbs and lost momentum such that Hamilton was right on his gearbox through Curva Grande. I wouldn't have penalised LeClerc for missing that chicane as he did not gain an advantage. I'd be more tempted to use his defence on the Curva Grande immediately afterwards as the 'second yellow card.'

I don't think they were going to use anything as a second yellow card short of Leclerc actually hitting Hamilton, Masi also opinionated that lack of actual contact saved Leclerc from being penalised when he forced Hamilton off the track.

Maybe it becomes a bit like football were a defender dangles a leg out in the penalty box and the striker deliberately then runs into his leg to simulate a foul and gets the penalty.

In the case of Hamilton he allows Leclerc to hit his car ever so slightly to try and negate any kind of damage to his car which then triggers the penalty for Leclerc.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:39 am 
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You do realize how fast their going and the split second decisions they have to make. "a slight touch" You really think they have that much time to calculate a slight touch?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:33 am 
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spiritone wrote:
You do realize how fast their going and the split second decisions they have to make. "a slight touch" You really think they have that much time to calculate a slight touch?
Oh Dear...

Go back and re-watch Prost taking out Senna or Senna taking out Prost at Suzuka or Schumacher taking out Hill at Adelaide

and then give yourself a slap :-P


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:47 am 
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Battle Far wrote:
spiritone wrote:
You do realize how fast their going and the split second decisions they have to make. "a slight touch" You really think they have that much time to calculate a slight touch?
Oh Dear...

Go back and re-watch Prost taking out Senna or Senna taking out Prost at Suzuka or Schumacher taking out Hill at Adelaide

and then give yourself a slap :-P


Doesn't thins prove him right? They both took themselves out. That's no good to Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:58 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
spiritone wrote:
You do realize how fast their going and the split second decisions they have to make. "a slight touch" You really think they have that much time to calculate a slight touch?
Oh Dear...

Go back and re-watch Prost taking out Senna or Senna taking out Prost at Suzuka or Schumacher taking out Hill at Adelaide

and then give yourself a slap :-P


Doesn't thins prove him right? They both took themselves out. That's no good to Hamilton.


Add Schumacher and JV, they all took themselves out. What a strategy!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:08 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
spiritone wrote:
You do realize how fast their going and the split second decisions they have to make. "a slight touch" You really think they have that much time to calculate a slight touch?
Oh Dear...

Go back and re-watch Prost taking out Senna or Senna taking out Prost at Suzuka or Schumacher taking out Hill at Adelaide

and then give yourself a slap :-P


Doesn't thins prove him right? They both took themselves out. That's no good to Hamilton.


Add Schumacher and JV, they all took themselves out. What a strategy!!!


Prest on Senna in 89 as well. In fact there isn't an example of a driver trying to take their championship rival out and continuing.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:11 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
spiritone wrote:
You do realize how fast their going and the split second decisions they have to make. "a slight touch" You really think they have that much time to calculate a slight touch?
Oh Dear...

Go back and re-watch Prost taking out Senna or Senna taking out Prost at Suzuka or Schumacher taking out Hill at Adelaide

and then give yourself a slap :-P


Doesn't thins prove him right? They both took themselves out. That's no good to Hamilton.


Add Schumacher and JV, they all took themselves out. What a strategy!!!


Prest on Senna in 89 as well. In fact there isn't an example of a driver trying to take their championship rival out and continuing.

I think this was the very first example.

But yeah, I agree


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:32 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
Oh Dear...

Go back and re-watch Prost taking out Senna or Senna taking out Prost at Suzuka or Schumacher taking out Hill at Adelaide

and then give yourself a slap :-P


Doesn't thins prove him right? They both took themselves out. That's no good to Hamilton.


Add Schumacher and JV, they all took themselves out. What a strategy!!!


Prest on Senna in 89 as well. In fact there isn't an example of a driver trying to take their championship rival out and continuing.

I think this was the very first example.

But yeah, I agree


Doesn't matter but I assumed they meant Senna on Prost the year later.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:58 am 
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spiritone wrote:
You do realize how fast their going and the split second decisions they have to make. "a slight touch" You really think they have that much time to calculate a slight touch?

Depends what's at stake and what's worth the risk, if Leclerc was a WDC contender then Hamilton simply holds his ground knowing that Leclerc will get penalised but then again I guess you have to factor in the paltry 5 second penalties that gets dished out nowadays, it's a risk but perhaps gives a better chance to get past in this instance were getting by was so difficult.

Hamilton stressed that he avoided the contact because unlike Leclerc the WDC was on the line for him.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Last edited by pokerman on Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:59 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
spiritone wrote:
You do realize how fast their going and the split second decisions they have to make. "a slight touch" You really think they have that much time to calculate a slight touch?
Oh Dear...

Go back and re-watch Prost taking out Senna or Senna taking out Prost at Suzuka or Schumacher taking out Hill at Adelaide

and then give yourself a slap :-P


Doesn't thins prove him right? They both took themselves out. That's no good to Hamilton.

In this instance it wasn't hence why Hamilton avoided the contact.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place


Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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