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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:20 pm 
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I noticed two incidents here:

(1) Sainz clearly accelerating to the edge of the track at the corner exit and forcing Albon off into the gravel even though Albon was alongside him. It seemed deliberate and should have been punished.

(2) Leclerc squeezing Hamilton off the track at the corner entry and weirdly getting a slap on the wrist for it in the form of a black and white flag, which at least showed that the stewards realised this was bad driving. Again this should have had a proper penalty, but it wasn't as bad as the Sainz/Albon incident that went completely unpunished so more inconsistency here it seems.

What are people's thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:36 pm 
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I think Leclerc could have done that ten more times and not get a penalty.

We've seen worse go unpenalised. It happens all the time in the midfield.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:44 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I think Leclerc could have done that ten more times and not get a penalty.

We've seen worse go unpenalised. It happens all the time in the midfield.


The Sainz crowd-off is about as worse as you will ever see, putting someone in the gravel and forcing them to lose a few extra places from cars close behind.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:46 pm 
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If there was tarmac, the other side of the white line before the kerbing into the second chicane rather than grass, would there have even been a black and white flag for Leclerc?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:03 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
If there was tarmac, the other side of the white line before the kerbing into the second chicane rather than grass, would there have even been a black and white flag for Leclerc?


Probably not which is another concerning point, as that changes nothing about the offence of forcing another driver outside of the track limits, yet the stewards would likely use this as an excuse to say nothing.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:06 pm 
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A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:13 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


Albon had already passed Sainz and it was Sainz passing him into that corner. Would you like to rephrase your Albon incident comments? Or are you saying that Albon should have waved Sainz through and made it even easier for Sainz to pass him?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:16 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


Albon had already passed Sainz and it was Sainz passing him into that corner. Would you like to rephrase your Albon incident comments? Or are you saying that Albon should have waved Sainz through and made it even easier for Sainz to pass him?

Sainz entered Lesmo 1 ahead of Albon and on the inside line. He was already by him. He could have been polite and left that car's width and I personally think he should have. That said, there is precedent for letting that slide. ALbon was behind there.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:32 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


Albon had already passed Sainz and it was Sainz passing him into that corner. Would you like to rephrase your Albon incident comments? Or are you saying that Albon should have waved Sainz through and made it even easier for Sainz to pass him?

Sainz entered Lesmo 1 ahead of Albon and on the inside line. He was already by him. He could have been polite and left that car's width and I personally think he should have. That said, there is precedent for letting that slide. ALbon was behind there.


Why didn't Sainz stay in his lane? I mean it wasn't turn 1 of lap 1, and he knew Albon was there? Albon should be allowed to race Sainz and not be forced to give up the position like that. Don't we want hard but fair racing?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:34 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


Albon had already passed Sainz and it was Sainz passing him into that corner. Would you like to rephrase your Albon incident comments? Or are you saying that Albon should have waved Sainz through and made it even easier for Sainz to pass him?

Sainz entered Lesmo 1 ahead of Albon and on the inside line. He was already by him. He could have been polite and left that car's width and I personally think he should have. That said, there is precedent for letting that slide. ALbon was behind there.


Why didn't Sainz stay in his lane? I mean it wasn't turn 1 of lap 1, and he knew Albon was there? Albon should be allowed to race Sainz and not be forced to give up the position like that. Don't we want hard but fair racing?

You and your "lanes"...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:35 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Sainz entered Lesmo 1 ahead of Albon and on the inside line. He was already by him. He could have been polite and left that car's width and I personally think he should have. That said, there is precedent for letting that slide. ALbon was behind there.


Why didn't Sainz stay in his lane? I mean it wasn't turn 1 of lap 1, and he knew Albon was there? Albon should be allowed to race Sainz and not be forced to give up the position like that. Don't we want hard but fair racing?

You and your "lanes"...


You believe yourself that Sainz should have left an outside lane of space there, so you believe in it too.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:02 pm 
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It's more conflicting rules to understand I guess.

Drivers can have 99.9% of their car over the white line and still be classed as within the circuit limits. Here with Leclerc and Hamilton, Hamilton had to put a couple of wheels over the white line which half a second late weren't on the grass because the kerb, a part of the allowed track, was under his right hand tyres so he wasn't off track at all......

Aghhhhhhhhh

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:06 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Sainz entered Lesmo 1 ahead of Albon and on the inside line. He was already by him. He could have been polite and left that car's width and I personally think he should have. That said, there is precedent for letting that slide. ALbon was behind there.


Why didn't Sainz stay in his lane? I mean it wasn't turn 1 of lap 1, and he knew Albon was there? Albon should be allowed to race Sainz and not be forced to give up the position like that. Don't we want hard but fair racing?

You and your "lanes"...


You believe yourself that Sainz should have left an outside lane of space there, so you believe in it too.

There's a difference between believing that Sainz should have left space and believing that Sainz should have gotten a penalty for not leaving space. My opinion that he should have left space is based on etiquette but I would have liked to see a black and white flag there for him and not a penalty.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:15 pm 
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If there’s no penalty for Max in Austria (something I disagree on) then you can’t have a penalty for Sainz here. If that’s the line we have drawn, we at least have to be consistent in applying it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:46 pm 
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David Coulthard: Sainz was perfectly within his rights to let his car drift...

David Coulthard: LeClerc will get a penalty for that.

Can't imagine why the disparity.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:49 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


Albon had already passed Sainz and it was Sainz passing him into that corner. Would you like to rephrase your Albon incident comments? Or are you saying that Albon should have waved Sainz through and made it even easier for Sainz to pass him?

Sainz entered Lesmo 1 ahead of Albon and on the inside line. He was already by him. He could have been polite and left that car's width and I personally think he should have. That said, there is precedent for letting that slide. ALbon was behind there.


Why didn't Sainz stay in his lane? I mean it wasn't turn 1 of lap 1, and he knew Albon was there? Albon should be allowed to race Sainz and not be forced to give up the position like that. Don't we want hard but fair racing?

You and your "lanes"...

I for one am hoping we're in for another lesson of lane theory.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:10 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
It's more conflicting rules to understand I guess.

Drivers can have 99.9% of their car over the white line and still be classed as within the circuit limits. Here with Leclerc and Hamilton, Hamilton had to put a couple of wheels over the white line which half a second late weren't on the grass because the kerb, a part of the allowed track, was under his right hand tyres so he wasn't off track at all......

Aghhhhhhhhh


The curbs are not regarded as part of the track FYI.

If all four of your tyres are on the curbs then you are off the track and abusing track limits.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:14 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
It's more conflicting rules to understand I guess.

Drivers can have 99.9% of their car over the white line and still be classed as within the circuit limits. Here with Leclerc and Hamilton, Hamilton had to put a couple of wheels over the white line which half a second late weren't on the grass because the kerb, a part of the allowed track, was under his right hand tyres so he wasn't off track at all......

Aghhhhhhhhh


The curbs are not regarded as part of the track FYI.

If all four of your tyres are on the curbs then you are off the track and abusing track limits.


Sorry, I misinterpreted what I meant. I meant to say that the kerb is part of the track as in an area drivers use for driving over, braking, accelerating etc. My mistake.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:15 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


I agree. I thought Leclerc's Verstappen-esque defence against Hamilton on the second attack was even worse as well. Unfortunately this is the aftermath of the stewards being way too lenient in recent times, which now justifies these moves because "X got away with it against Y in ABC".

Usually I dislike seeing moves like Sainz' go unpunished, but I agree that Albon was nowhere near alongside to warrant being given room. It only looked bad because Albon for some reason decided to fight the lost cause.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:28 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
David Coulthard: Sainz was perfectly within his rights to let his car drift...

David Coulthard: LeClerc will get a penalty for that.

Can't imagine why the disparity.


Sainz ran Albon wide on the exit of the corner, under acceleration phase, all Albon had to do was not accelerate to stay safe, Leclerc ran Ham off the track on corner entry, under braking phase, completely different circumstances, Hamilton couldn’t just brake more and avoid as easy as Albon. Crowding on the exit is seen as acceptable if not good etiquette for that reason, it's easy for the guy on the outside to back off and tuck behind, there is a rule specifically outlawing crowding in the braking zone.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:35 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
David Coulthard: Sainz was perfectly within his rights to let his car drift...

David Coulthard: LeClerc will get a penalty for that.

Can't imagine why the disparity.

Maybe because one was in the braking zone?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:43 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I think Leclerc could have done that ten more times and not get a penalty.

We've seen worse go unpenalised. It happens all the time in the midfield.

So why did Verstappen get penalised at the same track for doing that?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:46 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
ALESI wrote:
David Coulthard: Sainz was perfectly within his rights to let his car drift...

David Coulthard: LeClerc will get a penalty for that.

Can't imagine why the disparity.

Maybe because one was in the braking zone?


Then why did Austria 2019 take 3 hours of investigating when it was always obvious that it was nowhere near the braking zone?

The braking zone has nothing to do with situations such as these, you can't put drivers off the track at any parts of the corner.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:57 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ALESI wrote:
David Coulthard: Sainz was perfectly within his rights to let his car drift...

David Coulthard: LeClerc will get a penalty for that.

Can't imagine why the disparity.

Maybe because one was in the braking zone?


Then why did Austria 2019 take 3 hours of investigating when it was always obvious that it was nowhere near the braking zone?

The braking zone has nothing to do with situations such as these, you can't put drivers off the track at any parts of the corner.

There was 2 contacts though, I would say the first contact was in the entry phase?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ALESI wrote:
David Coulthard: Sainz was perfectly within his rights to let his car drift...

David Coulthard: LeClerc will get a penalty for that.

Can't imagine why the disparity.

Maybe because one was in the braking zone?


Then why did Austria 2019 take 3 hours of investigating when it was always obvious that it was nowhere near the braking zone?

The braking zone has nothing to do with situations such as these, you can't put drivers off the track at any parts of the corner.

There was 2 contacts though, I would say the first contact was in the entry phase?


No there wasn't, you are just making things up to try and make it seem like the stewards understand the rules perfectly and apply them with precision.

This weekend and the biased decision making shows this to not be the case, the stewards are really bad at understanding and applying the rules in general.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:03 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


I agree. I thought Leclerc's Verstappen-esque defence against Hamilton on the second attack was even worse as well. Unfortunately this is the aftermath of the stewards being way too lenient in recent times, which now justifies these moves because "X got away with it against Y in ABC".

Usually I dislike seeing moves like Sainz' go unpunished, but I agree that Albon was nowhere near alongside to warrant being given room. It only looked bad because Albon for some reason decided to fight the lost cause.


:thumbup:

Leclerc learnt his lesson in Austria. And it is what many were shouting for: let them race! So far, so consistent ...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


I agree. I thought Leclerc's Verstappen-esque defence against Hamilton on the second attack was even worse as well. Unfortunately this is the aftermath of the stewards being way too lenient in recent times, which now justifies these moves because "X got away with it against Y in ABC".

Usually I dislike seeing moves like Sainz' go unpunished, but I agree that Albon was nowhere near alongside to warrant being given room. It only looked bad because Albon for some reason decided to fight the lost cause.


:thumbup:

Leclerc learnt his lesson in Austria. And it is what many were shouting for: let them race! So far, so consistent ...


No because he got a black and white flag, showing that the stewards wanted to punish him and if he had done the exact same thing again he would have been punished.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:10 pm 
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The black and white flag is perfectly reasonable response to that, a.warning and then do it again and you will be penalised, I think that he probably got away with something with his late move going through curva grande which was borderline as could cause a huge accident but his aggression is legal by precedent and he lost a race due to a really crappy overly aggressive move by Verstappen in Austria so you can't blame him, he is driving to the rules and he said as such after austria


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:16 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ALESI wrote:
David Coulthard: Sainz was perfectly within his rights to let his car drift...

David Coulthard: LeClerc will get a penalty for that.

Can't imagine why the disparity.

Maybe because one was in the braking zone?


Then why did Austria 2019 take 3 hours of investigating when it was always obvious that it was nowhere near the braking zone?

The braking zone has nothing to do with situations such as these, you can't put drivers off the track at any parts of the corner.

There was 2 contacts though, I would say the first contact was in the entry phase?


No there wasn't, you are just making things up to try and make it seem like the stewards understand the rules perfectly and apply them with precision.

This weekend and the biased decision making shows this to not be the case, the stewards are really bad at understanding and applying the rules in general.

No I actually think they didn't penalise Verstappen in Austria because of the thousands of Dutch fans at the track and same applies to Vettel in qualifying and Leclerc in the race at Monza.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:17 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.


I agree. I thought Leclerc's Verstappen-esque defence against Hamilton on the second attack was even worse as well. Unfortunately this is the aftermath of the stewards being way too lenient in recent times, which now justifies these moves because "X got away with it against Y in ABC".

Usually I dislike seeing moves like Sainz' go unpunished, but I agree that Albon was nowhere near alongside to warrant being given room. It only looked bad because Albon for some reason decided to fight the lost cause.


:thumbup:

Leclerc learnt his lesson in Austria. And it is what many were shouting for: let them race! So far, so consistent ...

Until their favourite driver gets crashed out of a race?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:19 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
The black and white flag is perfectly reasonable response to that, a.warning and then do it again and you will be penalised, I think that he probably got away with something with his late move going through curva grande which was borderline as could cause a huge accident but his aggression is legal by precedent and he lost a race due to a really crappy overly aggressive move by Verstappen in Austria so you can't blame him, he is driving to the rules and he said as such after austria

Indeed Austria set a somewhat nasty precedent, the stewards opened a can of worms there.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:22 pm 
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Ofcourse the stewards should punish such late moves, but they haven't so they shouldn't unless they say clearly they intend to do so.

They dug this hole for themselves and this all stems from the false outrage after Vettels deserved penalty in Canada and it's snowballed from there.

Vettel should have took his penalty like a man instead of a little beeyatch and we wouldn't be sitting around discussing why people didn't get penalties

In Canada the stewards affected the rules and became targets of bitchy fans upset at reality, Austria the fans decided the rules and we're still stuck with them because the stewards are too afraid to take control of the situation


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:27 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Ofcourse the stewards should punish such late moves, but they haven't so they shouldn't unless they say clearly they intend to do so.

They dug this hole for themselves and this all stems from the false outrage after Vettels deserved penalty in Canada and it's snowballed from there.

Vettel should have took his penalty like a man instead of a little beeyatch and we wouldn't be sitting around discussing why people didn't get penalties

Yep the stewards applied the rules in Canada and then the outrage it caused somewhat scared them I think, we don't want anymore of that, take a win off Verstappen in front of tens of thousands of Dutch fans, not going to happen, take a win off Leclerc at Monza, not going to happen.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ofcourse the stewards should punish such late moves, but they haven't so they shouldn't unless they say clearly they intend to do so.

They dug this hole for themselves and this all stems from the false outrage after Vettels deserved penalty in Canada and it's snowballed from there.

Vettel should have took his penalty like a man instead of a little beeyatch and we wouldn't be sitting around discussing why people didn't get penalties

Yep the stewards applied the rules in Canada and then the outrage it caused somewhat scared them I think, we don't want anymore of that, take a win off Verstappen in front of tens of thousands of Dutch fans, not going to happen, take a win off Leclerc at Monza, not going to happen.



I don't think leclerc should have gotten a penalty tho because he almost lost one from the rules changing mid race

Leclerc is driving to the rules, it's just that the rules need to be reiterated prior to the race


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:40 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
pokerman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ofcourse the stewards should punish such late moves, but they haven't so they shouldn't unless they say clearly they intend to do so.

They dug this hole for themselves and this all stems from the false outrage after Vettels deserved penalty in Canada and it's snowballed from there.

Vettel should have took his penalty like a man instead of a little beeyatch and we wouldn't be sitting around discussing why people didn't get penalties

Yep the stewards applied the rules in Canada and then the outrage it caused somewhat scared them I think, we don't want anymore of that, take a win off Verstappen in front of tens of thousands of Dutch fans, not going to happen, take a win off Leclerc at Monza, not going to happen.



I don't think leclerc should have gotten a penalty tho because he almost lost one from the rules changing mid race

Leclerc is driving to the rules, it's just that the rules need to be reiterated prior to the race

It's not the same rule though otherwise Leclerc would not have got a warning whereas Verstappen didn't.

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2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:44 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
pokerman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ofcourse the stewards should punish such late moves, but they haven't so they shouldn't unless they say clearly they intend to do so.

They dug this hole for themselves and this all stems from the false outrage after Vettels deserved penalty in Canada and it's snowballed from there.

Vettel should have took his penalty like a man instead of a little beeyatch and we wouldn't be sitting around discussing why people didn't get penalties

Yep the stewards applied the rules in Canada and then the outrage it caused somewhat scared them I think, we don't want anymore of that, take a win off Verstappen in front of tens of thousands of Dutch fans, not going to happen, take a win off Leclerc at Monza, not going to happen.



I don't think leclerc should have gotten a penalty tho because he almost lost one from the rules changing mid race

Leclerc is driving to the rules, it's just that the rules need to be reiterated prior to the race

It's not the same rule though otherwise Leclerc would not have got a warning whereas Verstappen didn't.


Well I guess he didn't get anything for his moving in curva grande


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:39 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.

Completely agree with all of this. Leclerc was borderline and perhaps just left enough room to give the stewards sufficient doubt and get away without the penalty. It's more than just the braking zone though. On corner entry the driver is applying steering inputs and deliberately crowding the other driver. I would hope they make it clear after the race that leclerc was on the limit to make sure drivers are more respectful of this in the future. Sainz and albon was just racing though. Has been discussed to death though so I know that there are a small group who feel differently.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:05 am 
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WHoff78 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A penalty would have been justified for Charles but not producing a penalty is also understandable. Ultimately; any penalty that is seen as benefiting Hamilton or Mercedes will be unpopular and people will cry about the sport being ruined. That is what stayed the hand of the stewards regarding Charles's two questionable incidents. Penalizing a Ferrari driver while they are in the lead at Monza could also result in stewards having a bounty placed on their heads in the nation of Italy.

With regards to Albon; he was a bit behind and passing around the outside of the Lesmos is just not on. I do think Sainz should have left space but Alex was unwise to put himself in that position.

Completely agree with all of this. Leclerc was borderline and perhaps just left enough room to give the stewards sufficient doubt and get away without the penalty. It's more than just the braking zone though. On corner entry the driver is applying steering inputs and deliberately crowding the other driver. I would hope they make it clear after the race that leclerc was on the limit to make sure drivers are more respectful of this in the future. Sainz and albon was just racing though. Has been discussed to death though so I know that there are a small group who feel differently.


Albon was being passed up the inside though, he wasn't doing the overtaking*. He's happily trying to take the Lesmos normally then a car comes steaming up his inside and not only that but this car decides that it wants full use of the corner exit curbs giving him very little time to get out of the way and so he is forced to drive off the track and into the gravel to avoid contact.

*I don't think these situations are materially different as I see it as just two cars going side-by-side through a corner, but it does make a difference to those people saying that Albon ''should have backed out of the move'' or ''the move wasn't on'' etc. as Albon was in effect trying to finish his pass that he did into the previous chicane and Sainz was the one fighting back and trying to re-overtake, so why is Sainz trying to re-overtake into the Lesmos when a move there is apparently not on?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:44 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think Leclerc could have done that ten more times and not get a penalty.

We've seen worse go unpenalised. It happens all the time in the midfield.


The Sainz crowd-off is about as worse as you will ever see, putting someone in the gravel and forcing them to lose a few extra places from cars close behind.


From another viewpoint, the chasing driver could've backed off


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:03 am 
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trento wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think Leclerc could have done that ten more times and not get a penalty.

We've seen worse go unpenalised. It happens all the time in the midfield.


The Sainz crowd-off is about as worse as you will ever see, putting someone in the gravel and forcing them to lose a few extra places from cars close behind.


From another viewpoint, the chasing driver could've backed off


Correct. The chasing driver was Sainz, and apparently you shouldn't attempt a move into the Lesmos so I am not sure what he was trying to do by repassing Albon into that corner.


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