planetf1.com

It is currently Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:13 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
Carlos Jr. spent the first four seasons in F1 firmly in mid-field for Toro Rosso and Renault. In 2019 he landed a seat with Mclaren and has been a large part of their resurgence. He has been partnered with the much touted Lando Norris and currently has more than double Norris's point total.

There seem to be a lot of folks who think that Carlos is just benefiting from a much improved McLaren, which is possible, however it seems to me that Carlos has become a great contributor to elevating McLaren's results this year.

I am looking forward to seeing how much he can continue being "the best of the rest" and if he can punch through to getting a podium in 2019 or early 2020.

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 653
He is best of the rest because he has a faster car than the other midfield cars and a fairly weak teammate.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
F1 Racer wrote:
He is best of the rest because he has a faster car than the other midfield cars and a fairly weak teammate.

I just can't see the improvement this year as being entirely attributable to an improved McLaren chasis. I don't think that Fernando would be doing any better than Carlos with this years McLaren.

Carlos and Lando appear to be a much better driver combination than Fernando and Stoffel.

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 653
Mort Canard wrote:
I don't think that Fernando would be doing any better than Carlos with this years McLaren.



Wow. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
F1 Racer wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
I don't think that Fernando would be doing any better than Carlos with this years McLaren.



Wow. :lol:

Change my mind!!!

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 653
Mort Canard wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
I don't think that Fernando would be doing any better than Carlos with this years McLaren.



Wow. :lol:

Change my mind!!!


I don't need to, you're clearly crazy so I'm just going to leave you be! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
You apparently have nothing but your opinion to go on, whereas Carlos has gotten a lot of Kudos from the pundits for his performance this year.

You want to discredit the results you need some logical reason and evidence to do so.

_________________
Mission WinLater


Last edited by Mort Canard on Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2510
Sainz would be a very ideal "second driver" at a top team. He's probably top 8 on the grid - maybe top 6.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:00 am
Posts: 627
Location: Running wide at Bergwerk
Inappropriate post removed.

_________________
"Guys I'm coming in, I'm having too much grip"
- Chanoch Nissany


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
Inappropriate post removed.

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 653
Inappropriate quote removed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 653
Inappropriate post removed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
Inappropriate post removed.

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 653
Inappropriate post removed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
Carlos Sainz: Carlos Sainz’s incredible season continues with another marvellous display. Not only was he one of four cars that did not get lapped by Bottas in the race, he finished 35 seconds ahead of the nearest midfield runner. Yet another impressive display that deserved much more in terms of the Drive of the Day voting. 10/10

https://www.planetf1.com/features/japan ... r-ratings/

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:21 am
Posts: 3885
Not a great start to an official thread when you're all just calling each other crazy...

_________________
Forum rules: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14979

Please report forum problems to us, via PM/Feedback Thread. Screenshots will also help.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16240
Alonso had more points after 10 rounds in the 2018 than Sainz did after 10 rounds this season.

That was with a less competitive car. There's no way Alonso wouldn't be scoring more points than Sainz with this Mclaren. If you mean he wouldn't be higher up in the championship.. That i agree with.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:04 pm
Posts: 805
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alonso had more points after 10 rounds in the 2018 than Sainz did after 10 rounds this season.

That was with a less competitive car. There's no way Alonso wouldn't be scoring more points than Sainz with this Mclaren. If you mean he wouldn't be higher up in the championship.. That i agree with.


And a lucky run unlike Sainz's beginning of the season. Having a competitive car is not enough.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 653
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alonso had more points after 10 rounds in the 2018 than Sainz did after 10 rounds this season.

That was with a less competitive car. There's no way Alonso wouldn't be scoring more points than Sainz with this Mclaren. If you mean he wouldn't be higher up in the championship.. That i agree with.


No, he literally means that Sainz would be outperforming Alonso.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:29 pm
Posts: 2552
Carlos Sainz always been best of the rest - change my mind.

_________________
"Always believe you will become the best, but never believe you have done so"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16240
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Carlos Sainz always been best of the rest - change my mind.


Beaten by Hulkenberg

Matched for pace by a rookie.

Perez is the best of the rest in my opinion. Definitely compared better to Hulkenberg than Sainz.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
Posts: 653
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alonso had more points after 10 rounds in the 2018 than Sainz did after 10 rounds this season.

That was with a less competitive car. There's no way Alonso wouldn't be scoring more points than Sainz with this Mclaren. If you mean he wouldn't be higher up in the championship.. That i agree with.


Alonso would be maximising the results every single round and occasionally interfering with the fastest lap attempt by the final car of the front runners as he would be within a pitstop of them while running 6th or 7th.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:29 pm
Posts: 2552
mikeyg123 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Carlos Sainz always been best of the rest - change my mind.


Beaten by Hulkenberg

Matched for pace by a rookie.

Perez is the best of the rest in my opinion. Definitely compared better to Hulkenberg than Sainz.


That's only if you consider Hulk to be in the 'rest' ;) . Hulkenberg and Sainz are, in my opinion, the best outside of the top tier category, but I can understand why Perez should be included there too. I would also consider Norris to be a driver with a lot of potential, and therefore would not worry too much about competing with the rookie.

Hulkenberg vs Perez is a very interesting comparison and is deserving of its own thread. However I think Hulkenberg had more raw pace than Checo, while Checo was better at race management and tyre deg.

_________________
"Always believe you will become the best, but never believe you have done so"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16240
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Carlos Sainz always been best of the rest - change my mind.


Beaten by Hulkenberg

Matched for pace by a rookie.

Perez is the best of the rest in my opinion. Definitely compared better to Hulkenberg than Sainz.


That's only if you consider Hulk to be in the 'rest' ;) . Hulkenberg and Sainz are, in my opinion, the best outside of the top tier category, but I can understand why Perez should be included there too. I would also consider Norris to be a driver with a lot of potential, and therefore would not worry too much about competing with the rookie.

Hulkenberg vs Perez is a very interesting comparison and is deserving of its own thread. However I think Hulkenberg had more raw pace than Checo, while Checo was better at race management and tyre deg.


Checo usually had better race pace and was more consistent. Hulkenberg was better in qualifying.

The bottom line is Perez was both better at getting the big results and a more consistent point scorer. I agree Hulkenberg probably has a bit more flat out speed but doesn't make it count when he needs to.

IMO Perez is just about the most underrated driver I've seen in nearly 30 years of watching F1. If you think what Sainz is doing this year is good then look at what Perez did in 2016 and 2017. Alas it went pretty much unnoticed and uncredited.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33073
mikeyg123 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Carlos Sainz always been best of the rest - change my mind.


Beaten by Hulkenberg

Matched for pace by a rookie.

Perez is the best of the rest in my opinion. Definitely compared better to Hulkenberg than Sainz.

Indeed it's hard to really evaluate Sainz this year when he's in the 4th best car and has a rookie teammate, let's not forget that he basically got dropped by Renault last year after getting beat by the Hulk.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 1406
Mort Canard wrote:
You want to discredit the results you need some logical reason and evidence to do so.


Umm, no.

You made the claim, therefore it is incumbent on you to prove your claim. Anyone challenging your claim does not have the burden to disprove your claim.

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:00 am
Posts: 627
Location: Running wide at Bergwerk
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
You want to discredit the results you need some logical reason and evidence to do so.


Umm, no.

You made the claim, therefore it is incumbent on you to prove your claim. Anyone challenging your claim does not have the burden to disprove your claim.

The claim is that Sainz is best of the rest this year. This doesn't need proof as it is a fact. There seem to be some posters who disagree, and I think they should be providing reasoning as to why that is.

_________________
"Guys I'm coming in, I'm having too much grip"
- Chanoch Nissany


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 8055
Location: Mumbai, India
mikeyg123 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Carlos Sainz always been best of the rest - change my mind.


Beaten by Hulkenberg

Matched for pace by a rookie.

Perez is the best of the rest in my opinion. Definitely compared better to Hulkenberg than Sainz.


That's only if you consider Hulk to be in the 'rest' ;) . Hulkenberg and Sainz are, in my opinion, the best outside of the top tier category, but I can understand why Perez should be included there too. I would also consider Norris to be a driver with a lot of potential, and therefore would not worry too much about competing with the rookie.

Hulkenberg vs Perez is a very interesting comparison and is deserving of its own thread. However I think Hulkenberg had more raw pace than Checo, while Checo was better at race management and tyre deg.


Checo usually had better race pace and was more consistent. Hulkenberg was better in qualifying.

The bottom line is Perez was both better at getting the big results and a more consistent point scorer. I agree Hulkenberg probably has a bit more flat out speed but doesn't make it count when he needs to.

IMO Perez is just about the most underrated driver I've seen in nearly 30 years of watching F1. If you think what Sainz is doing this year is good then look at what Perez did in 2016 and 2017. Alas it went pretty much unnoticed and uncredited.


And Checo managed to get podiums in a car which was never known for having 1 of the best chassis' nor for having a good overall downforce package. Sainz is good but he's dominating the midfield only because McLaren (being the 4th best car) is some way ahead of the other midfield cars!

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
You want to discredit the results you need some logical reason and evidence to do so.


Umm, no.

You made the claim, therefore it is incumbent on you to prove your claim. Anyone challenging your claim does not have the burden to disprove your claim.


The stats show that Carlos has the highest point total of drivers that don't drive for Merc, Ferrari, or RBR. The burden is of proof is on anyone who wants to claim that Carlos is not "The Best of the Rest".

You need to provide evidence to show why the season point totals are not representative of what is going on in the races.

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 7402
Location: Michigan, USA
Mort Canard wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
You want to discredit the results you need some logical reason and evidence to do so.

Umm, no.

You made the claim, therefore it is incumbent on you to prove your claim. Anyone challenging your claim does not have the burden to disprove your claim.

The stats show that Carlos has the highest point total of drivers that don't drive for Merc, Ferrari, or RBR. The burden is of proof is on anyone who wants to claim that Carlos is not "The Best of the Rest".

You need to provide evidence to show why the season point totals are not representative of what is going on in the races.

Mostly playing Devil's Advocate, but I think there's a definite argument that McLaren has a clear gap between itself and the proper midfield. Right now I think we've got pretty much:

Mercedes / Ferrari
Red Bull
McLaren
The Rest, depending on track
Williams

With each line having a clear separation from the ones above and below. Sainz really ought to finish P7 or P8 (plus one for every car in front that has trouble) in every race if nothing goes wrong; the McLaren has a slight but noticeable edge on quali pace, and a very clear edge on race pace. He deserves a lot of credit for keeping himself out of trouble and getting the results he should be getting, but unless he beats a Red Bull he's not doing anything but finishing where the car should be.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
Exediron wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
The stats show that Carlos has the highest point total of drivers that don't drive for Merc, Ferrari, or RBR. The burden is of proof is on anyone who wants to claim that Carlos is not "The Best of the Rest".

You need to provide evidence to show why the season point totals are not representative of what is going on in the races.

Mostly playing Devil's Advocate, but I think there's a definite argument that McLaren has a clear gap between itself and the proper midfield. Right now I think we've got pretty much:

Mercedes / Ferrari
Red Bull
McLaren
The Rest, depending on track
Williams

With each line having a clear separation from the ones above and below. Sainz really ought to finish P7 or P8 (plus one for every car in front that has trouble) in every race if nothing goes wrong; the McLaren has a slight but noticeable edge on quali pace, and a very clear edge on race pace. He deserves a lot of credit for keeping himself out of trouble and getting the results he should be getting, but unless he beats a Red Bull he's not doing anything but finishing where the car should be.


The position of "Best of the Rest" has swung between Racing Point, Haas, Renault, and McLaren over the past several years. McLaren may be have a slight edge on the "Rest" right now but I can't see there beign a "clear separation" at the moment.

I have certainly seen no evidence that Sainz is underperforming the car. Carlos has finished within 10 seconds of Alex Albon in the last two races who has an obviously superior car.

I also can't see the criticism that some have made of Lando Norris as a "weak team mate". He certainly does not have the car that Alex Albon has. Lando still has been getting kudos from the pundits.

Carlos stepped up his game when he went to Renault from Toro Rosso and It looks to me like he stepped up again with his move to McLaren this year. There is a reason he keeps getting better rides.

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16240
Mort Canard wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
You want to discredit the results you need some logical reason and evidence to do so.


Umm, no.

You made the claim, therefore it is incumbent on you to prove your claim. Anyone challenging your claim does not have the burden to disprove your claim.


The stats show that Carlos has the highest point total of drivers that don't drive for Merc, Ferrari, or RBR. The burden is of proof is on anyone who wants to claim that Carlos is not "The Best of the Rest".

You need to provide evidence to show why the season point totals are not representative of what is going on in the races.


The Mclaren/Sainz package is best of rest. That's all the championship points tell you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 8055
Location: Mumbai, India
Could Sainz's awesome performance this year also down to the McLaren car? McLaren hasn't brought a big upgrade package but instead has brought small upgrades to every race which is why it kept improving ever so slightly to build such a cushion to the midfield.
https://f1i.com/news/358709-mclaren-midfield-edge-down-to-little-stuff-at-every-race-sainz.html

IMO Sainz in this year's McLaren would be more comfortable & competitive around most of the tracks when compared to Checo in '16 or '17 Force India. McLaren's chassis & downforce were always awesome whereas in '16 & '17 Force India was best of the rest mainly due to the (then best)Mercedes engine & because most of the midfield teams were struggling to improve.

Mod edit: URL fixed

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:04 pm
Posts: 805
UnlikeUday wrote:
Could Sainz's awesome performance this year also down to the McLaren car? McLaren hasn't brought a big upgrade package but instead has brought small upgrades to every race which is why it kept improving ever so slightly to build such a cushion to the midfield.
https://f1i.com/news/358709-mclaren-midfield-edge-down-to-little-stuff-at-every-race-sainz.html

IMO Sainz in this year's McLaren would be more comfortable & competitive around most of the tracks when compared to Checo in '16 or '17 Force India. McLaren's chassis & downforce were always awesome whereas in '16 & '17 Force India was best of the rest mainly due to the (then best)Mercedes engine & because most of the midfield teams were struggling to improve.

Mod edit: URL fixed


Like every driver.
The only way to make "more" points than what is possible is through luck.

I don't understand why you and others are trying very hard not to give any credit to Sainz Jr.

I remember a thread at the beginning of the year where people could vote on who would beat who between Norris vs Sainz and Norris was the clear winner in any poll I have read on the internet.

The reality is not what people were expecting and they don't like it, so there must be a reason. ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Kansas
Pullrod wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Could Sainz's awesome performance this year also down to the McLaren car? McLaren hasn't brought a big upgrade package but instead has brought small upgrades to every race which is why it kept improving ever so slightly to build such a cushion to the midfield.
https://f1i.com/news/358709-mclaren-midfield-edge-down-to-little-stuff-at-every-race-sainz.html

IMO Sainz in this year's McLaren would be more comfortable & competitive around most of the tracks when compared to Checo in '16 or '17 Force India. McLaren's chassis & downforce were always awesome whereas in '16 & '17 Force India was best of the rest mainly due to the (then best)Mercedes engine & because most of the midfield teams were struggling to improve.

Mod edit: URL fixed


Like every driver.
The only way to make "more" points than what is possible is through luck.

I don't understand why you and others are trying very hard not to give any credit to Sainz Jr.

I remember a thread at the beginning of the year where people could vote on who would beat who between Norris vs Sainz and Norris was the clear winner in any poll I have read on the internet.

The reality is not what people were expecting and they don't like it, so there must be a reason. ;)

:thumbup: :lol:

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 1306
Location: Stratford
Pullrod wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Could Sainz's awesome performance this year also down to the McLaren car? McLaren hasn't brought a big upgrade package but instead has brought small upgrades to every race which is why it kept improving ever so slightly to build such a cushion to the midfield.
https://f1i.com/news/358709-mclaren-midfield-edge-down-to-little-stuff-at-every-race-sainz.html

IMO Sainz in this year's McLaren would be more comfortable & competitive around most of the tracks when compared to Checo in '16 or '17 Force India. McLaren's chassis & downforce were always awesome whereas in '16 & '17 Force India was best of the rest mainly due to the (then best)Mercedes engine & because most of the midfield teams were struggling to improve.

Mod edit: URL fixed


Like every driver.
The only way to make "more" points than what is possible is through luck.

I don't understand why you and others are trying very hard not to give any credit to Sainz Jr.

I remember a thread at the beginning of the year where people could vote on who would beat who between Norris vs Sainz and Norris was the clear winner in any poll I have read on the internet.

The reality is not what people were expecting and they don't like it, so there must be a reason. ;)


I broadly agree with you about Sainz but that poll on this forum had Sainz winning fairly comfortably: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15370&p=776198#p776198

I'll reserve judgement on Norris until midway through next season as he has been unlucky at times but I think he's being a bit overhyped.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 8055
Location: Mumbai, India
Pullrod wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Could Sainz's awesome performance this year also down to the McLaren car? McLaren hasn't brought a big upgrade package but instead has brought small upgrades to every race which is why it kept improving ever so slightly to build such a cushion to the midfield.
https://f1i.com/news/358709-mclaren-midfield-edge-down-to-little-stuff-at-every-race-sainz.html

IMO Sainz in this year's McLaren would be more comfortable & competitive around most of the tracks when compared to Checo in '16 or '17 Force India. McLaren's chassis & downforce were always awesome whereas in '16 & '17 Force India was best of the rest mainly due to the (then best)Mercedes engine & because most of the midfield teams were struggling to improve.

Mod edit: URL fixed


Like every driver.
The only way to make "more" points than what is possible is through luck.

I don't understand why you and others are trying very hard not to give any credit to Sainz Jr.

I remember a thread at the beginning of the year where people could vote on who would beat who between Norris vs Sainz and Norris was the clear winner in any poll I have read on the internet.

The reality is not what people were expecting and they don't like it, so there must be a reason. ;)


Not against Sainz. I am happy for what he's achieving now. But just saying the big gap between Sainz's results when compared to others (in the midfield) is mainly due to the car. Sainz isn't best of the rest when compared to other midfield drivers.

This year's McLaren is a beast. It's literally good on every track. McLaren is arguably the only 4th best car on the grid. The Rest come in 'Rest of the Rest' category after McLaren.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:04 pm
Posts: 805
UnlikeUday wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Could Sainz's awesome performance this year also down to the McLaren car? McLaren hasn't brought a big upgrade package but instead has brought small upgrades to every race which is why it kept improving ever so slightly to build such a cushion to the midfield.
https://f1i.com/news/358709-mclaren-midfield-edge-down-to-little-stuff-at-every-race-sainz.html

IMO Sainz in this year's McLaren would be more comfortable & competitive around most of the tracks when compared to Checo in I '16 or '17 Force India. McLaren's chassis & downforce were always awesome whereas in '16 & '17 Force India was best of the rest mainly due to the (then best)Mercedes engine & because most of the midfield teams were struggling to improve.

Mod edit: URL fixed


Like every driver.
The only way to make "more" points than what is possible is through luck.

I don't understand why you and others are trying very hard not to give any credit to Sainz Jr.

I remember a thread at the beginning of the year where people could vote on who would beat who between Norris vs Sainz and Norris was the clear winner in any poll I have read on the internet.

The reality is not what people were expecting and they don't like it, so there must be a reason. ;)


Not against Sainz. I am happy for what he's achieving now. But just saying the big gap between Sainz's results when compared to others (in the midfield) is mainly due to the car. Sainz isn't best of the rest when compared to other midfield drivers.

This year's McLaren is a beast. It's literally good on every track. McLaren is arguably the only 4th best car on the grid. The Rest come in 'Rest of the Rest' category after McLaren.


That's your opinion(totally opposite of this year's drivers rating) .

And the fact that in the same post you call the McLaren "a beast" but Sainz Jr. "not the best of the rest"(who would that be by the way? Ricciardo? Hulkenberg?
Perez? Gasly? ) just prove the point I was trying to illustrate earlier.

I don't know many times I saw a heavy charger(Ricciardo, Gasly, Leclerc) later in the race with newer tyres and thought Sainz was toast only to see him keep his place.
If you have been watching races with live timing instead of FOM feed(which show nothing) , you would have noticed that Sainz is having a terrific season.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16240
Pullrod wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Could Sainz's awesome performance this year also down to the McLaren car? McLaren hasn't brought a big upgrade package but instead has brought small upgrades to every race which is why it kept improving ever so slightly to build such a cushion to the midfield.
https://f1i.com/news/358709-mclaren-midfield-edge-down-to-little-stuff-at-every-race-sainz.html

IMO Sainz in this year's McLaren would be more comfortable & competitive around most of the tracks when compared to Checo in I '16 or '17 Force India. McLaren's chassis & downforce were always awesome whereas in '16 & '17 Force India was best of the rest mainly due to the (then best)Mercedes engine & because most of the midfield teams were struggling to improve.

Mod edit: URL fixed


Like every driver.
The only way to make "more" points than what is possible is through luck.

I don't understand why you and others are trying very hard not to give any credit to Sainz Jr.

I remember a thread at the beginning of the year where people could vote on who would beat who between Norris vs Sainz and Norris was the clear winner in any poll I have read on the internet.

The reality is not what people were expecting and they don't like it, so there must be a reason. ;)


Not against Sainz. I am happy for what he's achieving now. But just saying the big gap between Sainz's results when compared to others (in the midfield) is mainly due to the car. Sainz isn't best of the rest when compared to other midfield drivers.

This year's McLaren is a beast. It's literally good on every track. McLaren is arguably the only 4th best car on the grid. The Rest come in 'Rest of the Rest' category after McLaren.


That's your opinion(totally opposite of this year's drivers rating) .

And the fact that in the same post you call the McLaren "a beast" but Sainz Jr. "not the best of the rest"(who would that be by the way? Ricciardo? Hulkenberg?
Perez? Gasly? ) just prove the point I was trying to illustrate earlier.

I don't know many times I saw a heavy charger(Ricciardo, Gasly, Leclerc) later in the race with newer tyres and thought Sainz was toast only to see him keep his place.
If you have been watching races with live timing instead of FOM feed(which show nothing) , you would have noticed that Sainz is having a terrific season.


Is it better than Perez's 2016 or 2017 seasons when he finished best of the rest?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33073
Pullrod wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Could Sainz's awesome performance this year also down to the McLaren car? McLaren hasn't brought a big upgrade package but instead has brought small upgrades to every race which is why it kept improving ever so slightly to build such a cushion to the midfield.
https://f1i.com/news/358709-mclaren-midfield-edge-down-to-little-stuff-at-every-race-sainz.html

IMO Sainz in this year's McLaren would be more comfortable & competitive around most of the tracks when compared to Checo in '16 or '17 Force India. McLaren's chassis & downforce were always awesome whereas in '16 & '17 Force India was best of the rest mainly due to the (then best)Mercedes engine & because most of the midfield teams were struggling to improve.

Mod edit: URL fixed


Like every driver.
The only way to make "more" points than what is possible is through luck.

I don't understand why you and others are trying very hard not to give any credit to Sainz Jr.

I remember a thread at the beginning of the year where people could vote on who would beat who between Norris vs Sainz and Norris was the clear winner in any poll I have read on the internet.

The reality is not what people were expecting and they don't like it, so there must be a reason. ;)

For what it's worth I had Sainz beating Norris and contrary to what you say I'm sure people were questioning if it was too soon for Norris to move up to F1, he only won 1 race in F2.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group