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 Post subject: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:32 am 
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I've just read a letter in F1 Racing which suggested F1 wing mirrors be replaced with a rear-facing camera, maybe mounted on the rollover hoop, and a screen infront of the drivers. The camera would have a 180 degree wide-angle so drivers could see everything behind. Presumably losing the mirrors would help tidy up the messy airflow coming off the cars too.

Sounds a good idea to me. After all cameras are getting much more common in road cars. Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Certainly an interesting idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:10 pm 
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I've been saying this for years - two small cameras, one either side.

Small TFT for each for the driver.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Totally agree, this would eliminate the I couldn't see him excuse. For road cars I would like to see them installed on front window door pillars with a shaped screen inside the car on the pillar to eliminate that blind spot.


Last edited by Option or Prime on Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:45 pm 
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I wish they would do this on road vehicles. No more squeezing between wing mirrors in car parks.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Totally agree, this would eliminate the I couldn't see him excuse. For road cars I would like to see them installed on front window door pillars with a shaped screen inside the car on the pillar to eliminate that blind spot.

Not necessarily. Just because you have a little screen doesn't mean drivers can look at them while wrestling their car and paying attention to everyone and everything around them. If anything for "certain drivers" this could further the lengths to which they'll make risky maneuvers to stay in front of others.

I like the idea of mirrors because we can better gauge if and when drivers actually look at them and other drivers, but I'm a fan of technology, so I'm torn on this.
My wife's Oddyssey has a superb camera that offers an excellent and clear view of the passenger's side of the vehicle and the lanes to the right as well, but it does
have a slight fish-eye effect so I'm not so sure it's good idea for F1. The distance lines on the view is dead nuts accurate though, but again, things happen so fast in F1 I don't think drivers would have time to look at distance lines before committing to a move.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
I wish they would do this on road vehicles. No more squeezing between wing mirrors in car parks.

At least the Audi e-tron has the cameras, although they're in the same place as the mirrors would be so doesn't really help much in this sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:51 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
I wish they would do this on road vehicles. No more squeezing between wing mirrors in car parks.
:thumbup:

And it would have a bigger effect on fossil fuel usage than all the BEV & Hybrid cars sold thus far put together :-P


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:01 pm 
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the problem i see with this is that given the number of technical glitches we see with electronic equipment, it will be hilarious if you can't see behind your car because of a "fault"

I certainly think F1 and all vehicles should keep the mirrors, but just make them stronger if needed. In F1, they look really flimsy indeed. That could easily be improved.

A mirror is an incredibly simple and reliable way of seeing behind you. I don't seen the need to invest in a screen when that can introduce other problems. For example, when the f1 cars have an electronic failure and everything goes off, you would not be able to see behid you when you need be more observent than normal. Imo, this screen would have been in use by now if it was better than mirrors, but i certainly don't think it is better.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:03 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Not necessarily. Just because you have a little screen doesn't mean drivers can look at them while wrestling their car and paying attention to everyone and everything around them. If anything for "certain drivers" this could further the lengths to which they'll make risky maneuvers to stay in front of others.


If the screen was ahead of the driver - even part of the dashboard, he wouldn't have to 'look' at it. He'd just see it. The problem with mirrors is they're well wide of the driver's line of sight, so unless he makes a point of looking he misses what's going on. And they vibrate too, making it even harder to see in them. Surely this is what causes problems - like Raikonnen/Verstappen at Spa this year. Had Raikonnen noticed Verstappen slipping up his inside on his screen he (hopefully) wouldn't have driven into him. In tight situations like that he has no time to glance across at the mirror, certainly not to check 2 mirrors..


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:06 pm 
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might be hard to see in the rain


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:17 pm 
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It would be a good idea. The screen could go in the middle of the steering wheel and they could then dispense with the stupid amount of controls they have that I believe are unnecessary. Get in and drive as fast as possible. None of this engine mode, brake balance rubbish.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:49 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
It would be a good idea. The screen could go in the middle of the steering wheel and they could then dispense with the stupid amount of controls they have that I believe are unnecessary. Get in and drive as fast as possible. None of this engine mode, brake balance rubbish.


Can't upvote this enough - I want to watch racing, not see my favourite drivers operating a computer.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:13 pm 
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tim3003 wrote:
I've just read a letter in F1 Racing which suggested F1 wing mirrors be replaced with a rear-facing camera, maybe mounted on the rollover hoop, and a screen infront of the drivers. The camera would have a 180 degree wide-angle so drivers could see everything behind. Presumably losing the mirrors would help tidy up the messy airflow coming off the cars too.

Sounds a good idea to me. After all cameras are getting much more common in road cars. Any thoughts?

Sounds like a modification that would be good to run in winter testing. It sounds like a step forward but will need a lot of testing in multi-car sessions to see what kind of displays work the best and how much better the camera setups work than mirrors.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:19 pm 
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tim3003 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Not necessarily. Just because you have a little screen doesn't mean drivers can look at them while wrestling their car and paying attention to everyone and everything around them. If anything for "certain drivers" this could further the lengths to which they'll make risky maneuvers to stay in front of others.


If the screen was ahead of the driver - even part of the dashboard, he wouldn't have to 'look' at it. He'd just see it. The problem with mirrors is they're well wide of the driver's line of sight, so unless he makes a point of looking he misses what's going on. And they vibrate too, making it even harder to see in them. Surely this is what causes problems - like Raikonnen/Verstappen at Spa this year. Had Raikonnen noticed Verstappen slipping up his inside on his screen he (hopefully) wouldn't have driven into him. In tight situations like that he has no time to glance across at the mirror, certainly not to check 2 mirrors..

Sorry but that's simply not a fair assessment on your part. If you're in the middle of a corner and you have guys all around you I can say with ALL certainty that there is NO WAY you're going to be able to look at a screen even if it's on the dash as your eyes are completely occupied paying attention to everything going on, and all you'd be able to catch from such a screen is a slight peripheral view at best. A camera would be good once the field spreads out a bit, but even then they'd be most useful and practical at the end of long straight, just as mirrors are.

I drive and ride motorcycles with my mirrors, as I constantly look all around me at all times to be aware of everything around me and I like to gauge distance so I don't misjudge space around me. I couldn't do that with a singular screen and I don't think F1 drivers could do much better.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Got a rear facing camera on my truck at work, as useful as it is, the screen is only a distraction when i'm not actually using it. Interesting idea though.

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:46 pm 
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How about as a test they add the screens and leave the mirrors for a season to see how it goes. I think this is a good idea, but until you use it in real life how would you know exactly how good it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:27 pm 
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HUD in the helmet?

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 Post subject: Re: Scrap wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:27 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Totally agree, this would eliminate the I couldn't see him excuse. For road cars I would like to see them installed on front window door pillars with a shaped screen inside the car on the pillar to eliminate that blind spot.


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