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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:27 pm 
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[quote]That williams is looking better here than at other tracks. Vettel was pretty slow to catch kubica and was behind him for a while. Bottas got by quicker, but kubica nearly got by him. Their speed is certainly good anyway. But maybe the corners is their weekness.[/quote]

Thing I notice with the Williams, certainly at the hairpin, is it's slowest to turn in. Aside from the Merc, the rest don't look that different to the naked eye. Both Mercedes really bite on the turn in at the slow corners anyway.

Red Bull and McLaren both look well planted on exit as does the Merc.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Still on your anti Albon stint then, becoming an obsession!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Still on your anti Albon stint then, becoming an obsession!


Correct, he has lost to Vettel now so he has yet to finish ahead of any of the top 5 in the WDC on merit in his 9 races at the Red Bull team.

Also he's about 50 seconds behind his teammate.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:58 pm 
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Not watched the race but Hulkenberg driver of the day for finishing out of the points and behind his team mate, just because it's his last race, for **** sake.

Put. It. In. The. Bin.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:59 pm 
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what an active race thread :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:02 pm 
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So, although I do have Ham as driver of the season, on my spreadsheets him and Verstappen ended up exactly equal with a 6.00 average (Ham had 6.05 in 2018).


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:04 pm 
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So from what I can gather, Sainz HAS confirmed 6th in the WDC. It's been a strong season from Carlos but he's one of the most divisive drivers on the grid it seems when it comes to this forum when deciding just how good he really is. I do believe him to be generally a very smart points hoover.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Invade wrote:
So from what I can gather, Sainz HAS confirmed 6th in the WDC. It's been a strong season from Carlos but he's one of the most divisive drivers on the grid it seems when it comes to this forum when deciding just how good he really is. I do believe him to be generally a very smart points hoover.


When he's been compared against known quantities he hasn't been that good.

He was beaten fair and square by Hulk last season for instance.

We don't know how good Norris is, but if Norris is slow then has it really been that good a season for Sainz?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:10 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Not watched the race but Hulkenberg driver of the day for finishing out of the points and behind his team mate, just because it's his last race, for **** sake.

Put. It. In. The. Bin.

Yes it's already been discussed just want a nonsense it is.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:10 pm 
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What a domination by Mercedes. Bottas would have got podium if DRS was working from start. It would have been easy 1-2 if Bottas had no penalty. Ferrari got exposed. Some how in Singapore they were good. But even Max finished more than 26secs ahead of them. They have lost lot of performance. It was decent race and nice battle in midfield.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Invade wrote:
So from what I can gather, Sainz HAS confirmed 6th in the WDC. It's been a strong season from Carlos but he's one of the most divisive drivers on the grid it seems when it comes to this forum when deciding just how good he really is. I do believe him to be generally a very smart points hoover.

Maybe because who has he beat, Kvyat and a rookie called Norris whilst he got beat by the Hulk.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:14 pm 
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Yes it's clear why the opinion on Sainz is divisive among keener F1 fans. We await plenty more evidence.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Shame if Leclerc loses the podium placing because of I presume a procedural error by Ferrari?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:19 pm 
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Hardly "procedural" - the rules are the rules (except for Ferrari, of course).

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:20 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
Fuel discrepancy on Leclercs car. To be investigated after the race

A DQ if found guilty.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:24 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
.

Hardly "procedural" - the rules are the rules (except for Ferrari, of course).

.

Well I was reasoning that it was simply a mistake, but yes rules are rules, just a shame for Leclerc himself.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:24 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Invade wrote:
So from what I can gather, Sainz HAS confirmed 6th in the WDC. It's been a strong season from Carlos but he's one of the most divisive drivers on the grid it seems when it comes to this forum when deciding just how good he really is. I do believe him to be generally a very smart points hoover.


When he's been compared against known quantities he hasn't been that good.

He was beaten fair and square by Hulk last season for instance.

We don't know how good Norris is, but if Norris is slow then has it really been that good a season for Sainz?


Next season will be really interesting Norris has finished in front of Sainz in 2 of the last 3 races with Sainz getting a podium in Brazil. You wonder where they would have ended up relative to each other without Noriss' bad luck earlier on. Looking good for McLaren!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Fuel discrepancy on Leclercs car. To be investigated after the race

A DQ if found guilty.

My understanding it's basically slam, dunk, that being the case he basically was allowed to race with an illegal car perhaps?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:40 pm 
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I hate this track with a passion and it has produced another pretty tedious race really. The minor placings changed hands later on I suppose, but not a classic.

The Mercedes dominance here was underlined by Hamilton being able to set the fastest lap on pretty old hard tyres, and Bottas being able to get past Vettel, Albon and even trouble Leclerc. All without a safety car or VSC. Ferrari were not a factor, Albon was disappointing too.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:48 pm 
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Tyre stats from the race:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:09 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
I hate this track with a passion and it has produced another pretty tedious race really. The minor placings changed hands later on I suppose, but not a classic.

The Mercedes dominance here was underlined by Hamilton being able to set the fastest lap on pretty old hard tyres, and Bottas being able to get past Vettel, Albon and even trouble Leclerc. All without a safety car or VSC. Ferrari were not a factor, Albon was disappointing too.


How was Albon disappointing? Wasn't he just his usual self today?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:16 pm 
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When you look at the points of the drivers who have been at Red Bull or Toro Rosso, Verstappen has over 50 more points than the other 3 put together. I know Red bull seems to work around max, but that is an absolutely massive difference given i am already making it an unrealistic comparison.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:19 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
When you look at the points of the drivers who have been at Red Bull or Toro Rosso, Verstappen has over 50 more points than the other 3 put together. I know Red bull seems to work around max, but that is an absolutely massive difference given i am already making it an unrealistic comparison.


I think Verstappen is just very good. It's what happens when you have an excellent driver alongside a mediocre one. We've seen it before. Looking at Kovalainen against Hamilton or Piquet against Alonso.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:32 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
When you look at the points of the drivers who have been at Red Bull or Toro Rosso, Verstappen has over 50 more points than the other 3 put together. I know Red bull seems to work around max, but that is an absolutely massive difference given i am already making it an unrealistic comparison.


I think Verstappen is just very good. It's what happens when you have an excellent driver alongside a mediocre one. We've seen it before. Looking at Kovalainen against Hamilton or Piquet against Alonso.


Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:34 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
When you look at the points of the drivers who have been at Red Bull or Toro Rosso, Verstappen has over 50 more points than the other 3 put together. I know Red bull seems to work around max, but that is an absolutely massive difference given i am already making it an unrealistic comparison.


I think Verstappen is just very good. It's what happens when you have an excellent driver alongside a mediocre one. We've seen it before. Looking at Kovalainen against Hamilton or Piquet against Alonso.


Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


It does amuse me that with each passing race, more and more posters are starting to come to the same realisation about Albon as I have; namely that he is a fairly poor driver.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:42 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
When you look at the points of the drivers who have been at Red Bull or Toro Rosso, Verstappen has over 50 more points than the other 3 put together. I know Red bull seems to work around max, but that is an absolutely massive difference given i am already making it an unrealistic comparison.


I think Verstappen is just very good. It's what happens when you have an excellent driver alongside a mediocre one. We've seen it before. Looking at Kovalainen against Hamilton or Piquet against Alonso.


Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


Oh come off it, whatever your opinion that's a ridiculous line of argument. We have no idea the difference between the Merc and Red Bull with the drivers factored out.

Kubica was out qualified 20-0. Sometimes Albon is close to Verstappen as well.

I don't find a half second gap difficult to believe between a top driver and a an unproven rookie coming in mid season. In light of no evidence to the contrary I will believe it is genuine. It would hardly be fair to Verstappen to effectively say he's doing too good a job. How well can a driver perform against his team mate while you to believe it? Where's the cut off if 0.5 seconds is too big a gap? 0.4, 0.3...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:12 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
When you look at the points of the drivers who have been at Red Bull or Toro Rosso, Verstappen has over 50 more points than the other 3 put together. I know Red bull seems to work around max, but that is an absolutely massive difference given i am already making it an unrealistic comparison.


I think Verstappen is just very good. It's what happens when you have an excellent driver alongside a mediocre one. We've seen it before. Looking at Kovalainen against Hamilton or Piquet against Alonso.


Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


Oh come off it, whatever your opinion that's a ridiculous line of argument. We have no idea the difference between the Merc and Red Bull with the drivers factored out.

Kubica was out qualified 20-0. Sometimes Albon is close to Verstappen as well.

I don't find a half second gap difficult to believe between a top driver and a an unproven rookie coming in mid season. In light of no evidence to the contrary I will believe it is genuine. It would hardly be fair to Verstappen to effectively say he's doing too good a job. How well can a driver perform against his team mate while you to believe it? Where's the cut off if 0.5 seconds is too big a gap? 0.4, 0.3...


The only ridiculous thing is you refusing to accept the fact that it is not an ordinary gap.
Please bring up a comparable driver pairing that shows a similar disparity. Kubica Russell doesn't count because there are a actually a few times kubica had been close and the consensus is that he is the worst driver on the grid anyway.
It's actually quite comical that you claim that albon has been close sometimes. He only matched max once and max had a technical issue in that session. Besides that it's like they're driving different cars.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Is there any deadline for FIA decision about Leclerc fuell? I have no time serriously.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:18 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:

Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


Oh come off it, whatever your opinion that's a ridiculous line of argument. We have no idea the difference between the Merc and Red Bull with the drivers factored out.

Kubica was out qualified 20-0. Sometimes Albon is close to Verstappen as well.

I don't find a half second gap difficult to believe between a top driver and a an unproven rookie coming in mid season. In light of no evidence to the contrary I will believe it is genuine. It would hardly be fair to Verstappen to effectively say he's doing too good a job. How well can a driver perform against his team mate while you to believe it? Where's the cut off if 0.5 seconds is too big a gap? 0.4, 0.3...


The only ridiculous thing is you refusing to accept the fact that it is not an ordinary gap.
Please bring up a comparable driver pairing that shows a similar disparity. Kubica Russell doesn't count because there are a actually a few times kubica had been close and the consensus is that he is the worst driver on the grid anyway.
It's actually quite comical that you claim that albon has been close sometimes. He only matched max once and max had a technical issue in that session. Besides that it's like they're driving different cars.


I'm loving your posts. It's good to know that someone else has actually seen what I've been witnessing here.

I didn't realise that Max had a technical issue in Japan Q3, but that explains what I suspected, and that was that Albon was not really on Max's pace on that weekend. If you look at the race, Albon only finished 10 seconds ahead of Sainz in the McLaren and was about 45 seconds or so off the lead group, so I don't think Albon was competitive at all in Japan.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:22 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
When you look at the points of the drivers who have been at Red Bull or Toro Rosso, Verstappen has over 50 more points than the other 3 put together. I know Red bull seems to work around max, but that is an absolutely massive difference given i am already making it an unrealistic comparison.


I think Verstappen is just very good. It's what happens when you have an excellent driver alongside a mediocre one. We've seen it before. Looking at Kovalainen against Hamilton or Piquet against Alonso.


Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


Oh come off it, whatever your opinion that's a ridiculous line of argument. We have no idea the difference between the Merc and Red Bull with the drivers factored out.

Kubica was out qualified 20-0. Sometimes Albon is close to Verstappen as well.

I don't find a half second gap difficult to believe between a top driver and a an unproven rookie coming in mid season. In light of no evidence to the contrary I will believe it is genuine. It would hardly be fair to Verstappen to effectively say he's doing too good a job. How well can a driver perform against his team mate while you to believe it? Where's the cut off if 0.5 seconds is too big a gap? 0.4, 0.3...


The only ridiculous thing is you refusing to accept the fact that it is not an ordinary gap.
Please bring up a comparable driver pairing that shows a similar disparity. Kubica Russell doesn't count because there are a actually a few times kubica had been close and the consensus is that he is the worst driver on the grid anyway.
It's actually quite comical that you claim that albon has been close sometimes. He only matched max once and max had a technical issue in that session. Besides that it's like they're driving different cars.


No it's totally ridiculous to say "if Verstappen's so good why can't he beat Bottas?" Why couldn't Hamilton beat lesser drivers between 2009 and 2013? Why couldn't Alonso beat lesser drivers after 2006? Perhaps they aren't that amazing either?

Honestly if that's your level of debate I'm not going to bother to waste my time puling apart a theory supported by zero evidence. Only to say that I find it baffling that someone thinks there is not a half second field spread between the drivers.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:25 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:

Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


Oh come off it, whatever your opinion that's a ridiculous line of argument. We have no idea the difference between the Merc and Red Bull with the drivers factored out.

Kubica was out qualified 20-0. Sometimes Albon is close to Verstappen as well.

I don't find a half second gap difficult to believe between a top driver and a an unproven rookie coming in mid season. In light of no evidence to the contrary I will believe it is genuine. It would hardly be fair to Verstappen to effectively say he's doing too good a job. How well can a driver perform against his team mate while you to believe it? Where's the cut off if 0.5 seconds is too big a gap? 0.4, 0.3...


The only ridiculous thing is you refusing to accept the fact that it is not an ordinary gap.
Please bring up a comparable driver pairing that shows a similar disparity. Kubica Russell doesn't count because there are a actually a few times kubica had been close and the consensus is that he is the worst driver on the grid anyway.
It's actually quite comical that you claim that albon has been close sometimes. He only matched max once and max had a technical issue in that session. Besides that it's like they're driving different cars.


I'm loving your posts. It's good to know that someone else has actually seen what I've been witnessing here.

I didn't realise that Max had a technical issue in Japan Q3, but that explains what I suspected, and that was that Albon was not really on Max's pace on that weekend. If you look at the race, Albon only finished 10 seconds ahead of Sainz in the McLaren and was about 45 seconds or so off the lead group, so I don't think Albon was competitive at all in Japan.


I don't think he's saying what you think he saying :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:31 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:

Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


Oh come off it, whatever your opinion that's a ridiculous line of argument. We have no idea the difference between the Merc and Red Bull with the drivers factored out.

Kubica was out qualified 20-0. Sometimes Albon is close to Verstappen as well.

I don't find a half second gap difficult to believe between a top driver and a an unproven rookie coming in mid season. In light of no evidence to the contrary I will believe it is genuine. It would hardly be fair to Verstappen to effectively say he's doing too good a job. How well can a driver perform against his team mate while you to believe it? Where's the cut off if 0.5 seconds is too big a gap? 0.4, 0.3...


The only ridiculous thing is you refusing to accept the fact that it is not an ordinary gap.
Please bring up a comparable driver pairing that shows a similar disparity. Kubica Russell doesn't count because there are a actually a few times kubica had been close and the consensus is that he is the worst driver on the grid anyway.
It's actually quite comical that you claim that albon has been close sometimes. He only matched max once and max had a technical issue in that session. Besides that it's like they're driving different cars.


I'm loving your posts. It's good to know that someone else has actually seen what I've been witnessing here.

I didn't realise that Max had a technical issue in Japan Q3, but that explains what I suspected, and that was that Albon was not really on Max's pace on that weekend. If you look at the race, Albon only finished 10 seconds ahead of Sainz in the McLaren and was about 45 seconds or so off the lead group, so I don't think Albon was competitive at all in Japan.


I don't think he's saying what you think he saying :lol:



No, he really is saying what I think, because he mentioned about the one time that Albon 'matched' Max, and so he has to be talking about Japan, and he said that MV had a technical issue in that session and so Albon did not really match up against MV's true pace. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:40 pm 
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According to the Gazzetta LeClerc keeps 3rd place Ferrari pays 50,000 euro fine.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:41 pm 
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K.F. wrote:
Is there any deadline for FIA decision about Leclerc fuell? I have no time serriously.


.

Having said that they found a "significant" amount of fuel their lack of action/response merely shows that "the fix is on" - typical FIA cop-out. ( It would seem to be a simple decision, was the fuel quantity against the regs, or not ?).

They will sneak the announcement out and somehow find a reason to forgive Ferrari - yet again bringing the sport into disrepute.

Pathetic.

.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:43 pm 
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f1guyus wrote:
According to the Gazzetta LeClerc keeps 3rd place Ferrari pays 50,000 euro fine.


How ?

The punishment is meant to be disqualification !

The FIA / Ferrari relationship is a joke.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:44 pm 
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Maximum Verstappenen is so fast that he's sprouting conspiracy theorists!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:02 pm 
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The 50k fine isn't the punishment, you only have to join up the dots to see the current Ferrari team in exactly the light they deserve.

The real punishment will be the knowledge amongst themselves that even by going over boundaries they still didn't even come close to winning the WCC or the WDC.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:39 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
K.F. wrote:
Is there any deadline for FIA decision about Leclerc fuell? I have no time serriously.


.

Having said that they found a "significant" amount of fuel their lack of action/response merely shows that "the fix is on" - typical FIA cop-out. ( It would seem to be a simple decision, was the fuel quantity against the regs, or not ?).

They will sneak the announcement out and somehow find a reason to forgive Ferrari - yet again bringing the sport into disrepute.

Pathetic.

.

I'm just wondering if these checks are done before each race or is it something new?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:54 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:

Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


Oh come off it, whatever your opinion that's a ridiculous line of argument. We have no idea the difference between the Merc and Red Bull with the drivers factored out.

Kubica was out qualified 20-0. Sometimes Albon is close to Verstappen as well.

I don't find a half second gap difficult to believe between a top driver and a an unproven rookie coming in mid season. In light of no evidence to the contrary I will believe it is genuine. It would hardly be fair to Verstappen to effectively say he's doing too good a job. How well can a driver perform against his team mate while you to believe it? Where's the cut off if 0.5 seconds is too big a gap? 0.4, 0.3...


The only ridiculous thing is you refusing to accept the fact that it is not an ordinary gap.
Please bring up a comparable driver pairing that shows a similar disparity. Kubica Russell doesn't count because there are a actually a few times kubica had been close and the consensus is that he is the worst driver on the grid anyway.
It's actually quite comical that you claim that albon has been close sometimes. He only matched max once and max had a technical issue in that session. Besides that it's like they're driving different cars.


I'm loving your posts. It's good to know that someone else has actually seen what I've been witnessing here.

I didn't realise that Max had a technical issue in Japan Q3, but that explains what I suspected, and that was that Albon was not really on Max's pace on that weekend. If you look at the race, Albon only finished 10 seconds ahead of Sainz in the McLaren and was about 45 seconds or so off the lead group, so I don't think Albon was competitive at all in Japan.


Yeah max mentioned on an interview that he had less power in q3 than he had in fp2.

But where you and I differ is that i think albon is compromised while you believe he is downright terrible. But my question to you is why didnt he look terrible at Toro rosso?

In any case I'm going to leave this here. I ask for one recent example of such one sided teammate pairing and the guy is going to bring up kovalainen and hamilton and alonso and piquet. Last I checked that was a decade ago and doesn't qualify as recent, and none of those looked as bad as verstappens teammates anyway. Kovi outqualified Lewis around Monaco ffs. I'm done here.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:17 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:

Really? I dont recall any top driver that far ahead of a so called mediocre driver. Actually when the gap is that big it usually suggests that the slower guy should not be on the grid. Even kubica can sometimes challenge Russell. Verstappen is making albon and gasly look like jolyon palmer clones basically. But he still cant touch lewis overall and loses out to bottas too. Isnt bottas a somewhat mediocre driver? i know the merc is thebetter car than the redbull but shouldnt verstappens ”amazing”talent make the difference there too? You want to believe its all down to talent then ok.


Oh come off it, whatever your opinion that's a ridiculous line of argument. We have no idea the difference between the Merc and Red Bull with the drivers factored out.

Kubica was out qualified 20-0. Sometimes Albon is close to Verstappen as well.

I don't find a half second gap difficult to believe between a top driver and a an unproven rookie coming in mid season. In light of no evidence to the contrary I will believe it is genuine. It would hardly be fair to Verstappen to effectively say he's doing too good a job. How well can a driver perform against his team mate while you to believe it? Where's the cut off if 0.5 seconds is too big a gap? 0.4, 0.3...


The only ridiculous thing is you refusing to accept the fact that it is not an ordinary gap.
Please bring up a comparable driver pairing that shows a similar disparity. Kubica Russell doesn't count because there are a actually a few times kubica had been close and the consensus is that he is the worst driver on the grid anyway.
It's actually quite comical that you claim that albon has been close sometimes. He only matched max once and max had a technical issue in that session. Besides that it's like they're driving different cars.


I'm loving your posts. It's good to know that someone else has actually seen what I've been witnessing here.

I didn't realise that Max had a technical issue in Japan Q3, but that explains what I suspected, and that was that Albon was not really on Max's pace on that weekend. If you look at the race, Albon only finished 10 seconds ahead of Sainz in the McLaren and was about 45 seconds or so off the lead group, so I don't think Albon was competitive at all in Japan.


Yeah max mentioned on an interview that he had less power in q3 than he had in fp2.

But where you and I differ is that i think albon is compromised while you believe he is downright terrible. But my question to you is why didnt he look terrible at Toro rosso?

In any case I'm going to leave this here. I ask for one recent example of such one sided teammate pairing and the guy is going to bring up kovalainen and hamilton and alonso and piquet. Last I checked that was a decade ago and doesn't qualify as recent, and none of those looked as bad as verstappens teammates anyway. Kovi outqualified Lewis around Monaco ffs. I'm done here.


Vandoorne vs Alonso was a clean sweep last year for a reference.

I would agree with you that Albon is compromised at Red Bull, and is not able to show his true pace currently. I don't think we can expect an inexperienced driver to jump into a car mid-season and be able to adjust to its new dynamics. I would argue however that Albon didn't look terrible at Toro Rosso because he didn't look terrible. And that the difference in pace between Verstappen and Albon is only slightly affected by Albon's inability to adjust to the new car.

Kvyat isn't the best candidate to measure a driver's worth against, and the fact that Albon was pretty much on par with him (IIRC) doesn't bode well for him. I don't think Albon has the potential to be a top car driver, but I understand Red Bull's decision to continue with him for next year. They've destroyed the confidence of a few too many drivers recently. I suspect he won't last for the 2021 season, unless Verstappen commands a position of choosing his teammates by then.

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