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Ferrari - Would you sign Hamilton
Yes, the potential to maximise points every weekend would outweigh the potential conflict and WDC is priority 44%  44%  [ 18 ]
Yes, better to have him in our car than someone else's 37%  37%  [ 15 ]
No, wouldn't need him. 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
No, just not worth the management 15%  15%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 41
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:30 pm 
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If yo uwere the Ferrari boss and got to make the call on the following assumptions:

Leclerc is staying
Leclerc beat again Vettel in '20
Vettel is retiring
Hamilton is interested in driving for you and you're happy with the commercials
Verstappen is not available

Would you sign Hamilton?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:40 pm 
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Dolo, if I were the Ferrari boss, surely we would already have the best car? ;)
On a more serious note, I'm only convinced the WDC is a priority if the WCC is out of reach, as it presently is.

With Leclerc staying, and with him being a Ferrari man, I believe I would put some weight on not importing another star, who might just not care about the potential fall-out of having another rivalry as he had with Rosberg.

Still, I voted yes, for the potential to collect points at every race, forgetting his clash with Albon for a moment. Luckily, his true mistakes a few and far between. (Provided there is no rivalry.)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:45 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Dolo, if I were the Ferrari boss, surely we would already have the best car? ;)
On a more serious note, I'm only convinced the WDC is a priority if the WCC is out of reach, as it presently is.

With Leclerc staying, and with him being a Ferrari man, I believe I would put some weight on not importing another star, who might just not care about the potential fall-out of having another rivalry as he had with Rosberg.

Still, I voted yes, for the potential to collect points at every race, forgetting his clash with Albon for a moment. Luckily, his true mistakes a few and far between. (Provided there is no rivalry.)

I thought that if he goes there he'll be 36 and possibly just over his prime. So it would be good to bring him in and get the most out of him. They do have a future WDC champion in Leclerc, maybe he can learn a bit of racecraft from Lewis.

Plus it would be awesome to watch!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Dolo, if I were the Ferrari boss, surely we would already have the best car? ;)
On a more serious note, I'm only convinced the WDC is a priority if the WCC is out of reach, as it presently is.

With Leclerc staying, and with him being a Ferrari man, I believe I would put some weight on not importing another star, who might just not care about the potential fall-out of having another rivalry as he had with Rosberg.

Still, I voted yes, for the potential to collect points at every race, forgetting his clash with Albon for a moment. Luckily, his true mistakes a few and far between. (Provided there is no rivalry.)

I thought that if he goes there he'll be 36 and possibly just over his prime. So it would be good to bring him in and get the most out of him. They do have a future WDC champion in Leclerc, maybe he can learn a bit of racecraft from Lewis.

Plus it would be awesome to watch!

I'd love to know where people get this whole "in his prime" deal. Alonso walked away last year older than that and most still feel he was driving better than ever, so why could one driver do so and others not? Why must we tag anyone with such a tag needlessly? Just like Alonso, Hamilton has been the model of consistency in far more often than not, FINDING that added little bit of speed needed to pip the time sheets in qualy and races while managing to sometimes outperform what was thought possible of the equipment through sheer brilliance and management of the shoddy tires the sport still features.

With previous generations we saw the top guys drive and remain quite competitive well into their 50's and those guys for the most part didn't take fitness seriously. Today however, the drivers keep themselves in peek condition year round and they constantly work on maintaining and even improving reflexes and in the off season and downtime truckloads of cash, but he realizes it all stemmed from racing and he's well aware that the longer he stays on top, the more lucrative opportunities present themselves.

I'd put money down on Hamilton over Leclerc should they end up together at Ferrari and I'd bet the same against Verstappen, because Lewis is that cerebral in figuring out how to consistently squeeze the most speed out of a package over a season than anyone since Schumacher and Alonso and rather than crumble, he thrives under pressure.

Would I sign Hamilton?… Heck YESSSS! in a heartbeat and I'd sign him to a multi-year deal.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:25 pm 
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Depends on the car they're able to produce, if Leclerc can win the title they really wouldn't need Hamilton (and the presumably vast dent in their budget his salary would make). OTOH if the situation is something like this year performance wise, it might be the difference between winning and not winning the title.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:27 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Dolo, if I were the Ferrari boss, surely we would already have the best car? ;)
On a more serious note, I'm only convinced the WDC is a priority if the WCC is out of reach, as it presently is.

With Leclerc staying, and with him being a Ferrari man, I believe I would put some weight on not importing another star, who might just not care about the potential fall-out of having another rivalry as he had with Rosberg.

Still, I voted yes, for the potential to collect points at every race, forgetting his clash with Albon for a moment. Luckily, his true mistakes a few and far between. (Provided there is no rivalry.)

I thought that if he goes there he'll be 36 and possibly just over his prime. So it would be good to bring him in and get the most out of him. They do have a future WDC champion in Leclerc, maybe he can learn a bit of racecraft from Lewis.

Plus it would be awesome to watch!

I'd love to know where people get this whole "in his prime" deal. Alonso walked away last year older than that and most still feel he was driving better than ever, so why could one driver do so and others not? Why must we tag anyone with such a tag needlessly? Just like Alonso, Hamilton has been the model of consistency in far more often than not, FINDING that added little bit of speed needed to pip the time sheets in qualy and races while managing to sometimes outperform what was thought possible of the equipment through sheer brilliance and management of the shoddy tires the sport still features.

With previous generations we saw the top guys drive and remain quite competitive well into their 50's and those guys for the most part didn't take fitness seriously. Today however, the drivers keep themselves in peek condition year round and they constantly work on maintaining and even improving reflexes and in the off season and downtime truckloads of cash, but he realizes it all stemmed from racing and he's well aware that the longer he stays on top, the more lucrative opportunities present themselves.

I'd put money down on Hamilton over Leclerc should they end up together at Ferrari and I'd bet the same against Verstappen, because Lewis is that cerebral in figuring out how to consistently squeeze the most speed out of a package over a season than anyone since Schumacher and Alonso and rather than crumble, he thrives under pressure.

Would I sign Hamilton?… Heck YESSSS! in a heartbeat and I'd sign him to a multi-year deal.

Maybe I didn't word that part so well and I certainly meant no disrespect to Hamilton. He has shown no signs of "getting too old for this sh*t" nor making any mistakes, so don't take this as me having a dig at him. What I meant is that his career is closer to the end than the beginning, does this make sense? How many top-notch years has a 36-37 year old left in today's F1 (and not the 50's)? Not that many I would bet. I'd be happy if he is competitive into his 40's or 50's


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:58 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:


With previous generations we saw the top guys drive and remain quite competitive well into their 50's and those guys for the most part didn't take fitness seriously. Today however, the drivers keep themselves in peek condition year round and they constantly work on maintaining and even improving reflexes and in the off season and downtime truckloads of cash, but he realizes it all stemmed from racing and he's well aware that the longer he stays on top, the more lucrative opportunities present themselves.


Maybe all the drivers not caring about fitness back in the day is what helped the drivers in their 50's remain competitive.

For example if the difference in fitness between an unfit 30 year old and an unfit 50 year old is smaller than the difference between a fit 30 year old and a fit 50 year old, this would explain now why drivers can't continue to compete at such older ages.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:46 pm 
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Even if Vettel wasn't retiring, if Hamilton is ready, I'd throw out Vettel without a second thought.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Too many factors to be considered to make such a call at this date.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:41 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:


With previous generations we saw the top guys drive and remain quite competitive well into their 50's and those guys for the most part didn't take fitness seriously. Today however, the drivers keep themselves in peek condition year round and they constantly work on maintaining and even improving reflexes and in the off season and downtime truckloads of cash, but he realizes it all stemmed from racing and he's well aware that the longer he stays on top, the more lucrative opportunities present themselves.


Maybe all the drivers not caring about fitness back in the day is what helped the drivers in their 50's remain competitive.

For example if the difference in fitness between an unfit 30 year old and an unfit 50 year old is smaller than the difference between a fit 30 year old and a fit 50 year old, this would explain now why drivers can't continue to compete at such older ages.


I think physical fitness is a small part of it, its mental fitness that is key and more specifically family is the reason many driver retire, you need to be really focused so wife and 2/3 kids will really change all that!

P.S. Any basis for the 30-50 year comparison or just opinion, seems a bit wooly to me.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:49 pm 
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If you can sign the best driver in the sport available and chose not to you probably don't deserve to be winning championships.

It would be a no brainer to sign Hamilton in these circumstances. Even if it just means no other top team can use him.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:51 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
If you can sign the best driver in the sport available and chose not to you probably don't deserve to be winning championships.

It would be a no brainer to sign Hamilton in these circumstances. Even if it just means no other top team can use him.


Ding ding. They already have 2 roosters in the hen house, why not have the biggest rooster of them all?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:12 pm 
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There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:24 pm 
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DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Surely the opposite ?

Having Hamilton in the car would make the car look better than it was.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:02 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
If you can sign the best driver in the sport available and chose not to you probably don't deserve to be winning championships.

It would be a no brainer to sign Hamilton in these circumstances. Even if it just means no other top team can use him.

Precisely this.

If Mercedes had two Bottases then Ferrari would have won in both '17 and '18.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Surely the opposite ?

Having Hamilton in the car would make the car look better than it was.


Actually no.

Witness Danny Riciardo driving the current Renault. According to the EOY Rankings poll, (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15788) he's a much better driver (ranked #4 in the poll, vs his actual #9 WDC rank) than his car would indicate (Renault ranked a far distant 5th in WCC). If we accept this, then the car is pulling Ricciardo down, despite his driving abililties.

I.E., putting a top flite driver in a turkey of a car will not pull the turkey to the head of the flock.

Put Hamilton in the current Ferrari, and even he would not be able to achieve the 11 wins he achieved this year in the Mercedes. The Ferrari is no Renault, but it's no Mercedes either, must be said.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:41 pm 
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DFWdude wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Surely the opposite ?

Having Hamilton in the car would make the car look better than it was.


Actually no.

Witness Danny Riciardo driving the current Renault. According to the EOY Rankings poll, (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15788) he's a much better driver (ranked #4 in the poll, vs his actual #9 WDC rank) than his car would indicate (Renault ranked a far distant 5th in WCC). If we accept this, then the car is pulling Ricciardo down, despite his driving abililties.

I.E., putting a top flite driver in a turkey of a car will not pull the turkey to the head of the flock.

Put Hamilton in the current Ferrari, and even he would not be able to achieve the 11 wins he achieved this year in the Mercedes. The Ferrari is no Renault, but it's no Mercedes either, must be said.



Nobody is saying the Ferrari was better than the Mercedes overall in 2019.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:01 pm 
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DFWdude wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Surely the opposite ?

Having Hamilton in the car would make the car look better than it was.


Actually no.

Witness Danny Riciardo driving the current Renault. According to the EOY Rankings poll, (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15788) he's a much better driver (ranked #4 in the poll, vs his actual #9 WDC rank) than his car would indicate (Renault ranked a far distant 5th in WCC). If we accept this, then the car is pulling Ricciardo down, despite his driving abililties.

I.E., putting a top flite driver in a turkey of a car will not pull the turkey to the head of the flock.

Put Hamilton in the current Ferrari, and even he would not be able to achieve the 11 wins he achieved this year in the Mercedes. The Ferrari is no Renault, but it's no Mercedes either, must be said.


A driver as good as Ricciardo still makes the Renault appear better than it would otherwise. It perhaps just puts them under the microscope a bit more.

The Ferrari case is not like that. They've been building good cars. All their last 3 cars would have looked better if you swapped Vettel and Hamilton. I think two may have won championships even.

Think of it like this. If you took Verstappen out of the Red Bull we would think the car was much poorer than we do now.


Last edited by mikeyg123 on Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:02 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Surely the opposite ?

Having Hamilton in the car would make the car look better than it was.
I would say that the Alonso years rather showed the opposite of making the car look better than it was.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:45 pm 
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I think I you were actually in charge at Ferrari and the opportunity was there to sign Hamilton it would be very risky and difficult to justify turning it down.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:51 am 
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This thread is about Tifosi wishful thinking, as usual.

You heard it here first... Hamilton will finish his career at Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:20 am 
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DFWdude wrote:
This thread is about Tifosi wishful thinking, as usual.

You heard it here first... Hamilton will finish his career at Mercedes.


"Tifosi wishful thinking, As usual"???
There are very few Tifosi comments (maybe Siao & definitely me), the OP is not a Tifosi either. Sorry to disillusion you, DFW.
;)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:00 am 
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DFWdude wrote:
This thread is about Tifosi wishful thinking, as usual.

You heard it here first... Hamilton will finish his career at Mercedes.

The two parties are saying far too many nice things about each other for it to be Tifosi wishful thinking. I have no doubt discussions have been held. To say anything more definitive than that is foolish.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:10 am 
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Absolutely, unless Leclerc had just won the 2020 WDC. Then I wouldn't, since I would have the reigning champion in my car and it would be massively undermining him to bring in his main rival.

But if my car isn't winning, nothing is more likely to make it win than putting Hamilton in it.

EDIT: And just to be clear to DFWdude -- I'm not a Tifosi, and I don't actually want either Hamilton or Ferrari to win the championship! 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:35 am 
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Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Surely the opposite ?

Having Hamilton in the car would make the car look better than it was.
I would say that the Alonso years rather showed the opposite of making the car look better than it was.


How so? The Ferrari looked way better with him in it than it would have looked with a lesser driver. No way is it a championship contneder in 2012 without him.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:46 am 
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DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Well that's what happened when they brought Schumacher in. They were exposed. And learned. And grew to become a powerhouse. It is not bad to be exposed and find out your weaknesses, a driver with Hamilton's calibre will help them sort out a few things.

I wonder if Hamilton will be genuinely willing to do that, or the Ferrari rumours are there just for him to help with his Mercedes salary negotiations for 2021.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:38 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Well that's what happened when they brought Schumacher in. They were exposed. And learned. And grew to become a powerhouse. It is not bad to be exposed and find out your weaknesses, a driver with Hamilton's calibre will help them sort out a few things.
You're right. I forgot about the Schumacher example. A better example than Ricciardo.

Siao7 wrote:
I wonder if Hamilton will be genuinely willing to do that, or the Ferrari rumours are there just for him to help with his Mercedes salary negotiations for 2021.
Right, again. The top drivers have more money than they can ever spend, so you would hope money is not the issue. But many drivers and teams will leaak discussions like this, in this case just to keep Mercedes on its toes.

Mercedes knows what they have in Hamilton. Time will tell if Wolf (or other) will get offended by these shenanigans, or dismiss it as business as usual to be tolerated.

An element not yet discussed... I haven't read in detail the portions of the 2021 Regs that limit what a team can spend each year, and whether driver salaries are included in the cap. If so, that will have some role to play in how much HAM and others can soak their teams, making this bidding war buildup a moot point.


Last edited by DFWdude on Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:42 pm 
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I'd sign him like a shot.
But I don't run the Ferrari F1 team. I don't think that Hamilton would find a 12-year old Octavia estate to be very competitive, to be fair.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:49 pm 
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DFWdude wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I wonder if Hamilton will be genuinely willing to do that, or the Ferrari rumours are there just for him to help with his Mercedes salary negotiations for 2021.
Right, again. The top drivers have more money than they can ever spend, so you would hope money is not the issue. But many drivers and teams will leaak discussions like this, in this case just to keep Mercedes on its toes.

Mercedes knows what they have in Hamilton. Time will tell if Wolf (or other) will get offended by these shenanigans, or dismiss it as business as usual to be tolerated.

An element not yet discussed... I haven't read in detail the portions of the 2021 Regs that limit what a team can spend each year, and whether driver salaries are included in the cap. If so, that will have some role to play in how much HAM and others can soak their teams, making this bidding war buildup a moot point.

It seems that Mercedes called this "bluff" (for lack of better word), Toto said they were open with Hamilton negotiating with Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:23 pm 
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i would guess it is pretty much a done deal already.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:51 pm 
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DFWdude wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
There's the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for..."

If Ferrari were to entice Hamilton to join them, there would be no more excuses concerning the car. Putting Hamilton in the car will expose every weakness in the Ferrari for the world to see.

Better to develop Ferrari drivers organically. That way, Ferrari can do what they have always done for decades... blame lack of performance on the driver (among many other excuses).


Well that's what happened when they brought Schumacher in. They were exposed. And learned. And grew to become a powerhouse. It is not bad to be exposed and find out your weaknesses, a driver with Hamilton's calibre will help them sort out a few things.
You're right. I forgot about the Schumacher example. A better example than Ricciardo.

Siao7 wrote:
I wonder if Hamilton will be genuinely willing to do that, or the Ferrari rumours are there just for him to help with his Mercedes salary negotiations for 2021.
Right, again. The top drivers have more money than they can ever spend, so you would hope money is not the issue. But many drivers and teams will leaak discussions like this, in this case just to keep Mercedes on its toes.

Mercedes knows what they have in Hamilton. Time will tell if Wolf (or other) will get offended by these shenanigans, or dismiss it as business as usual to be tolerated.

An element not yet discussed... I haven't read in detail the portions of the 2021 Regs that limit what a team can spend each year, and whether driver salaries are included in the cap. If so, that will have some role to play in how much HAM and others can soak their teams, making this bidding war buildup a moot point.


Driver and senior salaries are not included. And obviously Ham brings in money by attracting sponsors who want the association with Ham more than Mercedes; Pilot for example. Not forgetting that he was the one who initiated the Hilfiger connection. That's reportedly worth $50 million to Mercedes alone as a primary sponsor. Obviously the brand Ham is also worth money. His social media commercial posts are valued at $40,000 each. So he is obvious worth employing by Mercedes not just for his driving skills.
I'm sure the Mercedes boss spoke of this a short while ago saying with the money coming into the team from non Mercedes sources people would be shocked about how little it costs to run the team.
Although from the little information we get I don't think money has ever been a big stumbling block in contract negotiations. It's been more about his freedoms and trophies, etc. Think he has already asked to keep this years car.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:01 pm 
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The age debate being discussed regardng Hamilton being 36 is pure nonsense. Roger Federer is 38 years old and is still number 3 in the world at Tennis. Tennis is a sport that relies purely on the athlete's physical fitness and individual judgement. Formula 1 is physically demanding, but given that physical fitness is just one component of the package, it's not as vital as in Tennis where a 38 year old can still dominate all but two of the players in the sport.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:04 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
i would guess it is pretty much a done deal already.

With whom - Merc or Ferrari?

_________________
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
The age debate being discussed regardng Hamilton being 36 is pure nonsense. Roger Federer is 38 years old and is still number 3 in the world at Tennis. Tennis is a sport that relies purely on the athlete's physical fitness and individual judgement. Formula 1 is physically demanding, but given that physical fitness is just one component of the package, it's not as vital as in Tennis where a 38 year old can still dominate all but two of the players in the sport.

This is a good example.

But not everybody turns out to be Federer


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:14 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
The age debate being discussed regardng Hamilton being 36 is pure nonsense. Roger Federer is 38 years old and is still number 3 in the world at Tennis. Tennis is a sport that relies purely on the athlete's physical fitness and individual judgement. Formula 1 is physically demanding, but given that physical fitness is just one component of the package, it's not as vital as in Tennis where a 38 year old can still dominate all but two of the players in the sport.

This is a good example.

But not everybody turns out to be Federer

Not every 38 year old turns out to be Federer, not every 34 year old turns out to be Lewis Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:17 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
The age debate being discussed regardng Hamilton being 36 is pure nonsense. Roger Federer is 38 years old and is still number 3 in the world at Tennis. Tennis is a sport that relies purely on the athlete's physical fitness and individual judgement. Formula 1 is physically demanding, but given that physical fitness is just one component of the package, it's not as vital as in Tennis where a 38 year old can still dominate all but two of the players in the sport.

This is a good example.

But not everybody turns out to be Federer

Not every 38 year old turns out to be Federer, not every 34 year old turns out to be Lewis Hamilton.

So we agree, thanks!

It doesn't mean that he will not be a good driver past 36 years of age (who would claim this with any kind of certainty?), nor that his skills will start diminishing instantly the moment he will reach a certain age. Read what I said carefully and you'll see that I wrote that he is closer to the end of his career than the beginning. Translate it as you wish, but it was not meant as a negative comment.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:27 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
i would guess it is pretty much a done deal already.


Assuming you mean with Ferrari, bold claim!

I wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton signing a new contract with Mercedes is a done deal already.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:32 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
The age debate being discussed regardng Hamilton being 36 is pure nonsense. Roger Federer is 38 years old and is still number 3 in the world at Tennis. Tennis is a sport that relies purely on the athlete's physical fitness and individual judgement. Formula 1 is physically demanding, but given that physical fitness is just one component of the package, it's not as vital as in Tennis where a 38 year old can still dominate all but two of the players in the sport.

This is a good example.

But not everybody turns out to be Federer

Not every 38 year old turns out to be Federer, not every 34 year old turns out to be Lewis Hamilton.

So we agree, thanks!

It doesn't mean that he will not be a good driver past 36 years of age (who would claim this with any kind of certainty?), nor that his skills will start diminishing instantly the moment he will reach a certain age. Read what I said carefully and you'll see that I wrote that he is closer to the end of his career than the beginning. Translate it as you wish, but it was not meant as a negative comment.

Would Lewis Hamilton of 2021 be able to beat the Lewis Hamilton of 2012, if the Lewis Hamilton of 2012 was able to do a software update of his brain to have all the updates that 2021 version has? Of course not, the 2012 version will have all the benefits of age of the 2021 version and the benefits of youth. Would the 2021 Lewis Hamilton be able to beat the 2012 Lewis Hamilton without those updates? That's a very interesting question. He'd definitely beat the 2011 Lewis Hamilton though. That guy was fast but had a terrible work/life harmony and made terrible on track decisions.

The Lewis Hamilton of 2021 won't be fighting that driver though. He'll be fighting a 4th season Charles Leclerc (who will be in the second seat), a 7th season Max Verstappen (who is unavailable in this question) - a bunch of mid career drivers we know he is faster than (with the possible exception of Ricciardo), a 3rd season Russell / Norris and any other challengers will be rookies.

A 40 year old Michael Schumacher with 3 years out of the sport was not too shabby against a 25 year old Nico Rosberg, even if Rosberg did have an edge on him (and I think it was the 3 years out of the sport that contributed more to Schumacher's drop off than his age)

Hamilton at 36, who is still competing will still be an absolute top driver in the market for at least 3 more seasons.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:01 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i would guess it is pretty much a done deal already.

With whom - Merc or Ferrari?



ferrari

and answering the op. of course i would sign him if i was ferrari. ham to ferrari and max to merc


Last edited by pc27b on Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:02 pm 
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I'm not quite sure why you are getting your undergarments twisted here Alien, but I'd dare say that you are reading this wrong. I did not say categorically that Hamilton will be sh*te at age 36+. Nor can anyone say with a 100% certainty that he will be the same driver that he is today. We did not expect a WDC to retire at age 31 either, but it happened.

All I am saying is that it depends on Ferrari's plan. If they want to go for a driver that has another 3 years left at least (as you said) or will they chase someone younger like Verstappen to invest in the future. Neither scenario is far fetched, they kept Kimi until he was 39 or so. Equally they do have a young gun, do why not taking the biggest opposition out of the picture?


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