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Which drivers would Red Bull sign?
Vettel and Other Driver 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Ricciardo and Other Driver 27%  27%  [ 8 ]
Alonso and Other Driver 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Vettel and Ricciardo 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Vettel and Alonso 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Ricciardo and Alonso 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Other Driver and Other Driver 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
This is a stupid question/poll and I refuse to select one of the above 20%  20%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 30
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:03 pm 
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With the likelihood of Hamilton switching to Ferrari in 2021 increasing more and more over the past few weeks, I thought it would be interesting to discuss how the dominoes would fall if this does indeed happen. In this hypothetical scenario, Verstappen joins Mercedes alongside Bottas or Russell, which seems a very likely outcome if Hamilton does go red. This leaves Red Bull without a top driver, but with quite a healthy number of top candidates to choose from.

My question then is, in the hypothetical case that Hamilton replaces Vettel, and Verstappen joins Mercedes alongside Bottas/Russell, where does this leave Red Bull's driver line-up?

In the poll, please answer which drivers you think Red Bull will sign, not which drivers you think Red Bull should sign.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:41 pm 
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Despite your nickname rubbing me up the wrong way ;-) , I refuse to say it is a stupid poll. I would be very surprised if Red Bull would not put a driver from its own programme in place should Verstappen indeed leave - which I am not at all convinced he would do. With a clean sheet of paper for 2021, and with Adrian Newey expected to stay (until further news, that is), I think Albon will get the nod, along with another Red Bullock.

My main item of curiosity is whether the Mercedes low rake experience would give them an advantage in the new "ground effect" era. Apart from that technical side of the problem (which I think is much more interesting than driver seletion anyway) I'm not convinced at all that Verstappen would expect Mercedes to simply continue to dominate, just as I'm not convinced Hamilton believes he could go to Ferrari and make up for its shortfalls on the technical side.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:44 pm 
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Ricciardo would return, I think. He has an out in his contract with Renault anyway, and without Max he could lead the team.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:17 pm 
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Vettel and Ricciardo, that would be a very strong line up for Red Bull.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Despite your nickname rubbing me up the wrong way ;-)


:lol:

Quote:
I refuse to say it is a stupid poll. I would be very surprised if Red Bull would not put a driver from its own programme in place should Verstappen indeed leave - which I am not at all convinced he would do. With a clean sheet of paper for 2021, and with Adrian Newey expected to stay (until further news, that is), I think Albon will get the nod, along with another Red Bullock.

My main item of curiosity is whether the Mercedes low rake experience would give them an advantage in the new "ground effect" era. Apart from that technical side of the problem (which I think is much more interesting than driver seletion anyway) I'm not convinced at all that Verstappen would expect Mercedes to simply continue to dominate, just as I'm not convinced Hamilton believes he could go to Ferrari and make up for its shortfalls on the technical side.


That is very true that Red Bull could indeed win the next formula, and Verstappen may be convinced to stay at Red Bull.

However, if Albon is still consistently slower than Verstappen next season, would you expect Red Bull not to hire someone from outside of their academy to step in? If Red Bull does become the top car in 2021, they could lose the championship by simply not having good enough drivers in their team.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Ricciardo and Alonso would be interesting and not too far fetched, although they usually promote own junior drivers.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Why can't I have Ricciardo and Albon?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Why can't I have Ricciardo and Albon?

Ricciardo and other driver, I believe that is - Albon isn't listed as an option. I voted for the same.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Vettel and Alonso would be awesome. Maybe more awesome 7 or so years ago.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:13 pm 
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Vettel going back to RBR. He has been spotted with RBR, CH couple of times as well this year.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:45 pm 
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Vettel.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Why can't I have Ricciardo and Albon?


Adding another driver I thought would create too many permutations, so I decided to leave it with three of the biggest names and anyone else goes under 'Other Driver'.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:09 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Ricciardo and Alonso would be interesting and not too far fetched, although they usually promote own junior drivers.

I heard that Alonso is a no, no for Honda, this coming from AmuS.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:06 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Why can't I have Ricciardo and Albon?


Adding another driver I thought would create too many permutations, so I decided to leave it with three of the biggest names and anyone else goes under 'Other Driver'.


OK thanks, job done.

P.S. Don't tell anyone how I vote though!........oh hang on. :blush:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:46 pm 
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For those saying Vettel and Alonso, might as well mention Hakkinen there as well then.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:59 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
For those saying Vettel and Alonso, might as well mention Hakkinen there as well then.

:lol: I voted Danny Ric and another driver. Danny is isn't living the dream right now but he can still deliver.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
With the likelihood of Hamilton switching to Ferrari in 2021 increasing more and more over the past few weeks, I thought it would be interesting to discuss how the dominoes would fall if this does indeed happen. In this hypothetical scenario, Verstappen joins Mercedes alongside Bottas or Russell, which seems a very likely outcome if Hamilton does go red. This leaves Red Bull without a top driver, but with quite a healthy number of top candidates to choose from.

My question then is, in the hypothetical case that Hamilton replaces Vettel, and Verstappen joins Mercedes alongside Bottas/Russell, where does this leave Red Bull's driver line-up?

In the poll, please answer which drivers you think Red Bull will sign, not which drivers you think Red Bull should sign.

I don't see the liklihood of Hamilton going to Ferrari in 2021 as increasing. The only thing I see increasing is the number of idle pundits with nothing else to rant about, gunching on about the possibility of Lewis switching teams.

The young lions of Formula One are getting older by the day and still haven't shown the ability to mount a credible challenge to the overall dominance of Lewis and the Silver Arrows. Sure Max can sneak in now and then for a win but that's all it is. Charles will be stronger next year but even then I don't see him as posing the kind of threat that will knock Hamilton of the top rung of the WDC.

There will be a chance for a reset in 2021 but I am betting that most teams and drivers will stay put to see who emerges from the new regs with the best package.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I refuse to say it is a stupid poll. I would be very surprised if Red Bull would not put a driver from its own programme in place should Verstappen indeed leave - which I am not at all convinced he would do. With a clean sheet of paper for 2021, and with Adrian Newey expected to stay (until further news, that is), I think Albon will get the nod, along with another Red Bullock.

My main item of curiosity is whether the Mercedes low rake experience would give them an advantage in the new "ground effect" era. Apart from that technical side of the problem (which I think is much more interesting than driver seletion anyway) I'm not convinced at all that Verstappen would expect Mercedes to simply continue to dominate, just as I'm not convinced Hamilton believes he could go to Ferrari and make up for its shortfalls on the technical side.


That is very true that Red Bull could indeed win the next formula, and Verstappen may be convinced to stay at Red Bull.

However, if Albon is still consistently slower than Verstappen next season, would you expect Red Bull not to hire someone from outside of their academy to step in? If Red Bull does become the top car in 2021, they could lose the championship by simply not having good enough drivers in their team.
That depends on a number of factors, not all of which are or will be clear to me; team focus being one, and driver/car compatibility another. The impression Albon gives me is that he is certainly not occupying a seat that "belongs" to someone else.

I feel I should separate team focus between the effort being deployed towards one or two drivers (look no further than McLaren bending over backwards to please Alonso, at the expense of Vandoorne), and the aims they set themselves; is it the drivers' title or the constructors' title that is more important? As Benetton showed us in 1996, expecting another driver to do as well with your car as the one you designed it for, but dumped you, is not without risk. Selecting the driver to suit your car is far from straightforward. So many top teams have failed to prolong their runs of success simply because they had to contend themselves with drivers who happened to be available, rather than having the particular, narrow skill set needed.

And finally, the importance Red Bull attach to their academy itself may be the hardest factor to read as an outsider. Money may not be a problem, but as always, the investment has to show a return. So yes, another driver may be brought in. But I think they will do whatever they need/can to keep Verstappen. Newey and Honda know what is required to do so.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:23 pm 
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If I was a team principal, and Hamilton and Verstappen were not available then Ricciardo is my next target. However the poll is not asking who I would pick, it's asking who I think Red Bull would pick, and the answer to that question is Vettel. Ricciardo burned his bridges and Red Bull seem to hold grudges. Honda wouldn't even supply Alonso with an engine for his lawnmower, let alone an F1 team employing him, but Vettel is their prodigal son, and he left on good terms. Also, of he failed to win with Ferrari but won again with red bull it would only elevate them higher.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:35 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ricciardo burned his bridges
I must have missed something; what was there to burn?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:37 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ricciardo burned his bridges
I must have missed something; what was there to burn?


Bridges?

:]


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:35 am 
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Fiki wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ricciardo burned his bridges
I must have missed something; what was there to burn?

Yeah I'm not sure that happened, if Verstappen were to leave then both Vettel and Ricciardo have to be in contention and why not 2014 revisited, Red Bull were quite happy with a Verstappen/Ricciardo line up.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:50 am 
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There's no way they would take back ricciardo now and Honda will not be supportive of them employing Alonso. Maybe poachd Sainz or Norris (however both resigned for mclaren and seem happy). So you're left with Vettel who I think they would take back instantly because they understand he needs a incredible rear end and Newey could probably give him something and Albon as a newbie through their system


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:52 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
There's no way they would take back ricciardo now and Honda will not be supportive of them employing Alonso. Maybe poachd Sainz or Norris (however both resigned for mclaren and seem happy). So you're left with Vettel who I think they would take back instantly because they understand he needs a incredible rear end and Newey could probably give him something and Albon as a newbie through their system


Why do you think they wouldn't have Ricciardo back? I don't recall any bad blood between Ricciardo and Red Bull. Red Bull and Sainz on the other hand....


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:58 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
There's no way they would take back ricciardo now and Honda will not be supportive of them employing Alonso. Maybe poachd Sainz or Norris (however both resigned for mclaren and seem happy). So you're left with Vettel who I think they would take back instantly because they understand he needs a incredible rear end and Newey could probably give him something and Albon as a newbie through their system


Why do you think they wouldn't have Ricciardo back? I don't recall any bad blood between Ricciardo and Red Bull. Red Bull and Sainz on the other hand....


Well he went off to Renault in the face of a bit Renault/Red Bull falling out which Horner in particular was salty about at the time, Red Bull then said it was because he was scared of max, which Dan wasnt too happy about and Ric has since been quite vocal about what he thinks of their team management particularly Baku. Red bull are quite a bitter team at least on the face of it and very ruthless with drivers under their employment let alone wuth drivers which have chosen to leave (vettel but different as he left on very good terms and Marko & christen love him)

Maybe I'm it wrong and I've seen some sensationalist media reporting but that's how it seems to me


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:07 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
There's no way they would take back ricciardo now and Honda will not be supportive of them employing Alonso. Maybe poachd Sainz or Norris (however both resigned for mclaren and seem happy). So you're left with Vettel who I think they would take back instantly because they understand he needs a incredible rear end and Newey could probably give him something and Albon as a newbie through their system


Why do you think they wouldn't have Ricciardo back? I don't recall any bad blood between Ricciardo and Red Bull. Red Bull and Sainz on the other hand....


Well he went off to Renault in the face of a bit Renault/Red Bull falling out which Horner in particular was salty about at the time, Red Bull then said it was because he was scared of max, which Dan wasnt too happy about and Ric has since been quite vocal about what he thinks of their team management particularly Baku. Red bull are quite a bitter team at least on the face of it and very ruthless with drivers under their employment let alone wuth drivers which have chosen to leave (vettel but different as he left on very good terms and Marko & christen love him)

Maybe I'm it wrong and I've seen some sensationalist media reporting but that's how it seems to me


Fair enough. I've never got the impression there are insurmountable differences there. Ricciardo did the latest F1 podcast and said he is on good terms and talks to both Horner and Markko.

I think of it mutually beneficial people usually find a way. Alonso went back to Renault after saying they were actively working against him in 2006 and went back to Mclaren after, well, we all know what after!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
There's no way they would take back ricciardo now and Honda will not be supportive of them employing Alonso. Maybe poachd Sainz or Norris (however both resigned for mclaren and seem happy). So you're left with Vettel who I think they would take back instantly because they understand he needs a incredible rear end and Newey could probably give him something and Albon as a newbie through their system


Why do you think they wouldn't have Ricciardo back? I don't recall any bad blood between Ricciardo and Red Bull. Red Bull and Sainz on the other hand....


Well he went off to Renault in the face of a bit Renault/Red Bull falling out which Horner in particular was salty about at the time, Red Bull then said it was because he was scared of max, which Dan wasnt too happy about and Ric has since been quite vocal about what he thinks of their team management particularly Baku. Red bull are quite a bitter team at least on the face of it and very ruthless with drivers under their employment let alone wuth drivers which have chosen to leave (vettel but different as he left on very good terms and Marko & christen love him)

Maybe I'm it wrong and I've seen some sensationalist media reporting but that's how it seems to me


Fair enough. I've never got the impression there are insurmountable differences there. Ricciardo did the latest F1 podcast and said he is on good terms and talks to both Horner and Markko.

I think of it mutually beneficial people usually find a way. Alonso went back to Renault after saying they were actively working against him in 2006 and went back to Mclaren after, well, we all know what after!


Fair enough I never saw that podcast so perhaps I'm off the mark here, true about Alonso, though there had been a lot of leadership changes there, can't remember we're Whitmarsh and Ron still in charge at that point? Christ, just remembered what a terrible team principal whitmrsh was... Maybe they would take back ricciardo then, but I actually get the impression that ricciardo is happy to sit at Renault and wait to see what they can produce in 2021, perhaps they are working on something there behind the scenes


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:39 pm 
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What have Red Bull always done since the days of 2009? They have drawn drivers from their own driver program, and trialed them first in Torro Rosso.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:40 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
What have Red Bull always done since the days of 2009? They have drawn drivers from their own driver program, and trialed them first in Torro Rosso.


That is correct, but other teams have seen their success and stepped up their own driver programs.
I would argue that Red Bull’s program is in the worst shape it has ever been in right now.
And Gasly and Kvyat did not cut it at the top level.
Albon looks promising, but I think he is below even Sainz’s level.
If Max does jump ship then they are looking pretty bad for 2021 if they rely on their current drivers to get by.

They partly are focusing on getting Max to be the youngest ever champion in 2020 (as mentioned by Marko). 2021 he will be too old to get that record.
If they fail, he won’t stay.

Ricciardo would be their best bet.
Vettel is past his best.
Of they might sell a lot of Red Bull if they pay 100 million to Hamilton!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:07 pm 
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Randine wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
What have Red Bull always done since the days of 2009? They have drawn drivers from their own driver program, and trialed them first in Torro Rosso.


That is correct, but other teams have seen their success and stepped up their own driver programs.
I would argue that Red Bull’s program is in the worst shape it has ever been in right now.
And Gasly and Kvyat did not cut it at the top level.
Albon looks promising, but I think he is below even Sainz’s level.
If Max does jump ship then they are looking pretty bad for 2021 if they rely on their current drivers to get by.

They partly are focusing on getting Max to be the youngest ever champion in 2020 (as mentioned by Marko). 2021 he will be too old to get that record.
If they fail, he won’t stay.

Ricciardo would be their best bet.
Vettel is past his best.
Of they might sell a lot of Red Bull if they pay 100 million to Hamilton!

Exactly if Verstappen was too jump ship then this sticking to the junior program would soon come to an end and top of their list I would say would be ex Red Bull drivers like Ricciardo and Vettel.

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