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Rank the supporting drivers
Poll runs till Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:20 am
Rank the number twos 6%  6%  [ 31 ]
Coulthard 4%  4%  [ 20 ]
Coulthard_1 3%  3%  [ 17 ]
Coulthard_2 2%  2%  [ 11 ]
Coulthard_3 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Coulthard_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Irvine 2%  2%  [ 12 ]
Irvine_1 2%  2%  [ 12 ]
Irvine_2 3%  3%  [ 14 ]
Irvine_3 3%  3%  [ 14 ]
Irvine_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Barrichello 4%  4%  [ 20 ]
Barrichello_1 2%  2%  [ 11 ]
Barrichello_2 2%  2%  [ 11 ]
Barrichello_3 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Barrichello_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Trulli 3%  3%  [ 13 ]
Trulli_1 2%  2%  [ 11 ]
Trulli_2 3%  3%  [ 16 ]
Trulli_3 2%  2%  [ 12 ]
Trulli_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Fisichella 4%  4%  [ 20 ]
Fisichella_1 4%  4%  [ 19 ]
Fisichella_2 4%  4%  [ 20 ]
Fisichella_3 1%  1%  [ 7 ]
Fisichella_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Massa 3%  3%  [ 14 ]
Massa_1 4%  4%  [ 18 ]
Massa_2 3%  3%  [ 16 ]
Massa_3 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Massa_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Kovalainen 5%  5%  [ 25 ]
Kovalainen_1 1%  1%  [ 6 ]
Kovalainen_2 1%  1%  [ 5 ]
Kovalainen_3 5%  5%  [ 25 ]
Kovalainen_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Webber 3%  3%  [ 16 ]
Webber_1 3%  3%  [ 15 ]
Webber_2 3%  3%  [ 17 ]
Webber_3 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Webber_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Bottas 3%  3%  [ 15 ]
Bottas_1 3%  3%  [ 15 ]
Bottas_2 3%  3%  [ 14 ]
Bottas_3 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Bottas_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 496
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Rank the number twos
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:37 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7955
Fiki wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Jarno had already made arrangements with Toyota as early as June or something as I mentioned before, everyone knew he was leaving and he had said it himself publicly.
I can't find that in the Autosport news archive. In fact, the initial impression in June is the contrary. Not that I doubt Jarno had been speaking with Toyota; he would have been unwise not to.
Can you indicate where you found news to explain what you remember?

I found these:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/23835 ... nault.html

https://www.grandprix.com/news/trulli-t ... nault.html

He was sacked in September, this is from July (not June that I remembered), although the paddock was buzzing since before that. But it is semantics at this point I guess


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 Post subject: Re: Rank the number twos
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:47 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16533
Siao7 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Jarno had already made arrangements with Toyota as early as June or something as I mentioned before, everyone knew he was leaving and he had said it himself publicly.
I can't find that in the Autosport news archive. In fact, the initial impression in June is the contrary. Not that I doubt Jarno had been speaking with Toyota; he would have been unwise not to.
Can you indicate where you found news to explain what you remember?

I found these:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/23835 ... nault.html

https://www.grandprix.com/news/trulli-t ... nault.html

He was sacked in September, this is from July (not June that I remembered), although the paddock was buzzing since before that. But it is semantics at this point I guess


Yes, that article suggests Fisichella is about to be announced but I remember before that it was known for sometime Trulli would be leaving and the choice was between Fisichella and Webber for the Renault drive. Webber famously turned it down in favour of Williams. So by the time of that article talk had been ongoing for some time.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank the number twos
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:23 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7955
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Jarno had already made arrangements with Toyota as early as June or something as I mentioned before, everyone knew he was leaving and he had said it himself publicly.
I can't find that in the Autosport news archive. In fact, the initial impression in June is the contrary. Not that I doubt Jarno had been speaking with Toyota; he would have been unwise not to.
Can you indicate where you found news to explain what you remember?

I found these:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/23835 ... nault.html

https://www.grandprix.com/news/trulli-t ... nault.html

He was sacked in September, this is from July (not June that I remembered), although the paddock was buzzing since before that. But it is semantics at this point I guess


Yes, that article suggests Fisichella is about to be announced but I remember before that it was known for sometime Trulli would be leaving and the choice was between Fisichella and Webber for the Renault drive. Webber famously turned it down in favour of Williams. So by the time of that article talk had been ongoing for some time.

Correct, that's why I mentioned that the paddock was buzzing with this. It was well knows, just waiting to be confirmed. Trulli turned down Williams for the Toyota money, it was quite the move back then


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 Post subject: Re: Rank the number twos
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:13 am 
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Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 10:54 am
Posts: 900
Location: Melbourne Australia
Webber is sitting 5th in the poll.
Personally I think he is the best on this list.

He was 33 when he finally got into a championship contender. And partnered with a team mate that was from the Red Bull driver program that at the time was totally unproven. Marko needed Vettel to win to show the investment in the program was worthwhile to the boss.

In 2010 Webber was leading the championship after the summer break and asked the team to get VEttel to support him. They refused.

Webber was mighty at high speed corners and showed Vettel where he could gain time.
Unfortunately for Webber, Vettel was better at slow speed corners where more time is lost than with high speed ones.

A lot of people say, well Webber was in the best car but never got 2nd in the championship.
To that you need to look at how Red Bull was set up for most of 2009-2013. They sacrificed top speed for cornering performance giving them overall better lap times. So if you got pole and got out in front, you were pulling away from the pack.
If you had McLaren or Ferrari in front, you were compromised because you were down on top speed to pass.
How many of Vettel’s wins came from pole? And I believe he has never won from below 4th on the grid.

Webber will be remembered as pretty average, but with team backing and the confidence of a WDC in 2010, it might have ended up 2 - 2 Vettel v Webber.
Sadly it was 4 - 0.
At least he spent over 10 years in F1 on merit, was never a pay driver in a highly competitive business!

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 Post subject: Re: Rank the number twos
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 33519
Randine wrote:
Webber is sitting 5th in the poll.
Personally I think he is the best on this list.

He was 33 when he finally got into a championship contender. And partnered with a team mate that was from the Red Bull driver program that at the time was totally unproven. Marko needed Vettel to win to show the investment in the program was worthwhile to the boss.

In 2010 Webber was leading the championship after the summer break and asked the team to get VEttel to support him. They refused.

Webber was mighty at high speed corners and showed Vettel where he could gain time.
Unfortunately for Webber, Vettel was better at slow speed corners where more time is lost than with high speed ones.

A lot of people say, well Webber was in the best car but never got 2nd in the championship.
To that you need to look at how Red Bull was set up for most of 2009-2013. They sacrificed top speed for cornering performance giving them overall better lap times. So if you got pole and got out in front, you were pulling away from the pack.
If you had McLaren or Ferrari in front, you were compromised because you were down on top speed to pass.
How many of Vettel’s wins came from pole? And I believe he has never won from below 4th on the grid.

Webber will be remembered as pretty average, but with team backing and the confidence of a WDC in 2010, it might have ended up 2 - 2 Vettel v Webber.
Sadly it was 4 - 0.
At least he spent over 10 years in F1 on merit, was never a pay driver in a highly competitive business!

Webber only got close to Vettel in 2010 due to better mechanical reliability, Webber only really looked competitive against Vettel in 2009 but unfortunately that year it was him that suffered with mechanical unreliability.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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