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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:29 pm 
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Blake wrote:
What a totally asinine and irresponsible point of view. That is the kind of thinking that will make this continue to spread unchecked with more and more cases and a frightening number of fatalities world-wide. Just because the fatality rate for young adults is low by comparison, it doesn't mean that they are not carriers.

Yeah, and also...

If everyone who is under 30 catches the virus, that 0.2% is going to be a lot of people before this is all over. As in potentially millions.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:19 pm 
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Even if it was impossible for a young person to die from this, the fact they can carry it to others makes their role in battling this as big as ever.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:27 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Herb wrote:
And yet we've already had a 21 year old girl, with no underlying conditions, die in the UK after contracting the virus.

Not to put too hard a point on it, but 0.2% isn't 0.0%. Two out of a thousand still means two healthy young people will die out of every thousand who die. Just because a few young people die doesn't mean it's even remotely as dangerous to the young as it is to the old.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
It's not about young people dying, it's about them being the unwitting killers of others.

This is exactly the case. If the virus is alive and jumping from young person to young person it won't kill all that many, but it means the virus is still alive and transmitting -- and sooner or later it will find its way to someone it is far, far more likely to kill.

Additionally, while COVID doesn't kill very many young people, it does hospitalize plenty of them. In the USA they say something like 20% of hospitalizations are young people, and those are ICU beds that could be filled by someone in more need if those young people had been a little smarter.

That hospitalisation part is key, that is a pretty good indication that the person's life is in danger without emergency treatment. How many of the young people who have been infected would've died if not for hospital treatment? And if this infection spreads too quickly and hospitals are overwhelmed, those that would/should have been counted as hospitalised and recovered get added to the death toll instead.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:49 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI

This video is an interesting take on things. It’s Bill Gates doing a TED Talk in April 2015 about virus outbreaks, and he uses the Ebola Virus as context.

Makes some really pertinent points about a variety of measures that in theory could help the globe in dealing with pandemics like Coronavirus. I was particularly intrigued by the idea of a specialised pandemic-fighting international medical corps.

Obvious question is who funds it and when it can be used but considering the estimated financial cost for the entire world in the event of a global pandemic (quoted in the video at $3 trillion), maybe the Coronavirus ‘might’ push countries into more collective action to preparing for and preventing future outbreaks, once it has passed.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Herb wrote:
And yet we've already had a 21 year old girl, with no underlying conditions, die in the UK after contracting the virus.

I've also seen a guy in his 70s get the virus, he was unwell for 3 to 4 days and now he is fine, he never went to hospital.

I'm of the opinion that it's the elderly and sick that are the most vulnerable and likely to die but you're always going to get outliers, it's being said that 80% of people that catch the virus will only have mild symptoms but of course 20% is still hell of a lot of seriously ill people.

Having said that doctors in their 30s/40s have died from the virus, it's a puzzler, you'd like to think that if you're healthy you're going to be alright but there is perhaps no guarantees?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:39 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Herb wrote:
And yet we've already had a 21 year old girl, with no underlying conditions, die in the UK after contracting the virus.

Not to put too hard a point on it, but 0.2% isn't 0.0%. Two out of a thousand still means two healthy young people will die out of every thousand who die. Just because a few young people die doesn't mean it's even remotely as dangerous to the young as it is to the old.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
It's not about young people dying, it's about them being the unwitting killers of others.

This is exactly the case. If the virus is alive and jumping from young person to young person it won't kill all that many, but it means the virus is still alive and transmitting -- and sooner or later it will find its way to someone it is far, far more likely to kill.

Additionally, while COVID doesn't kill very many young people, it does hospitalize plenty of them. In the USA they say something like 20% of hospitalizations are young people, and those are ICU beds that could be filled by someone in more need if those young people had been a little smarter.

Also I heard that in Italy young people are being prioritised for saving as they are more likely to be saved.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:44 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Herb wrote:
And yet we've already had a 21 year old girl, with no underlying conditions, die in the UK after contracting the virus.

I've also seen a guy in his 70s get the virus, he was unwell for 3 to 4 days and now he is fine, he never went to hospital.

I'm of the opinion that it's the elderly and sick that are the most vulnerable and likely to die but you're always going to get outliers, it's being said that 80% of people that catch the virus will only have mild symptoms but of course 20% is still hell of a lot of seriously ill people.

Having said that doctors in their 30s/40s have died from the virus, it's a puzzler, you'd like to think that if you're healthy you're going to be alright but there is perhaps no guarantees?


Which is exactly why we need to follow the advice and stay at home.

Yes - the example I pointed out was an outlier. But it is close to an absolute certainty that there will be further outliers - I don't want myself or any of my family & friends to be one.


Enough people have already made the point that young and healthy people can infect the not-so-young and not-so-healthy.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:08 pm 
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Sir Chris Whitty, Chief Medical Officer has said in one of the press conferences that people in the high-risk category (ie over 70 and under 70 with underlying health conditions) are at a higher risk of suffering from a more serious infection of COVID-19, but that doesn't mean they will and some of these high risk people may even be asymptomatic.

On the flip side, he also stated that people that are considered low risk, do not assume that you won't suffer from a serious infection and die. Just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it won't happen.

Not that the kids seem to be taking any notice in the UK sadly over the last couple of days, there's still a number of them sat together drinking, probably sharing joints too!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Herb wrote:
And yet we've already had a 21 year old girl, with no underlying conditions, die in the UK after contracting the virus.

I've also seen a guy in his 70s get the virus, he was unwell for 3 to 4 days and now he is fine, he never went to hospital.

I'm of the opinion that it's the elderly and sick that are the most vulnerable and likely to die but you're always going to get outliers, it's being said that 80% of people that catch the virus will only have mild symptoms but of course 20% is still hell of a lot of seriously ill people.

Having said that doctors in their 30s/40s have died from the virus, it's a puzzler, you'd like to think that if you're healthy you're going to be alright but there is perhaps no guarantees?

Yes but the hospital workers are being constantly exposed to the virus so more and more of it is entering their bodies. Most people just get exposed to it once, it's the difference between having an X-ray or visiting a nuclear reactor core.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:09 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Herb wrote:
And yet we've already had a 21 year old girl, with no underlying conditions, die in the UK after contracting the virus.

I've also seen a guy in his 70s get the virus, he was unwell for 3 to 4 days and now he is fine, he never went to hospital.

I'm of the opinion that it's the elderly and sick that are the most vulnerable and likely to die but you're always going to get outliers, it's being said that 80% of people that catch the virus will only have mild symptoms but of course 20% is still hell of a lot of seriously ill people.

Having said that doctors in their 30s/40s have died from the virus, it's a puzzler, you'd like to think that if you're healthy you're going to be alright but there is perhaps no guarantees?

Yes but the hospital workers are being constantly exposed to the virus so more and more of it is entering their bodies. Most people just get exposed to it once, it's the difference between having an X-ray or visiting a nuclear reactor core.

Yeah my girlfriend works in the NHS, she told me today that length of exposure makes a difference as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:53 am 
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UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:36 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:


I guess it highlights the level of risk the doctors and nurses are taking?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:45 pm 
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COVID-19 now has huge momentum and, as far as I can tell, shows no signs of slowing down. It's scary to say that we might only just be getting started with this saga, and I'm no longer optimistic for the sports world to get going this year, which may see write-offs for the NBA and Formula 1, to name but two sports. Perhaps this is an overreaction, but checking the graphs and statistics everyday only brings pessimism.

My only question is whether or not more damage can be done by being in a prolonged state of global lockdown then riding out the virus in a tempered capacity which is still somewhat cautious but involves far less lockdown...? Here I'm thinking of jobs and economic impact which might have damaging effects which are less obvious to the health nonetheless of the general population.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:07 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:


I guess it highlights the level of risk the doctors and nurses are taking?

An article I read from Italy yesterday mentioned that more than 40 doctors have passed away so far there. They truly do risk their lives on a daily basis


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:


I guess it highlights the level of risk the doctors and nurses are taking?

An article I read from Italy yesterday mentioned that more than 40 doctors have passed away so far there. They truly do risk their lives on a daily basis


Yeah, and they are subject to high viral load.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:28 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:


I guess it highlights the level of risk the doctors and nurses are taking?

And that's exactly the point missed by the sensationalism. Assuming he got it at a hospital visit - and that's most likely - if he shook "everyone's hand" then he potentially and unnecessarily passed it along. His "blitz spirit I'm not going to stop handshaking, that's defeat" mentality just further endangered the health of the hospital workers.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:02 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:


I guess it highlights the level of risk the doctors and nurses are taking?

And that's exactly the point missed by the sensationalism. Assuming he got it at a hospital visit - and that's most likely - if he shook "everyone's hand" then he potentially and unnecessarily passed it along. His "blitz spirit I'm not going to stop handshaking, that's defeat" mentality just further endangered the health of the hospital workers.


The shaking hands thing was way back on the 3rd of March. If he has only just started showing symptoms it won't be from that.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:33 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:


I guess it highlights the level of risk the doctors and nurses are taking?

And that's exactly the point missed by the sensationalism. Assuming he got it at a hospital visit - and that's most likely - if he shook "everyone's hand" then he potentially and unnecessarily passed it along. His "blitz spirit I'm not going to stop handshaking, that's defeat" mentality just further endangered the health of the hospital workers.


The shaking hands thing was way back on the 3rd of March. If he has only just started showing symptoms it won't be from that.

Whether he actually caught it then or not isn't the point. It's that by insisting to carry on with handshaking - despite the fact it was strongly advised not to shake hands - around the health workers for whom there is an increased probability of being a carrier was irresponsible both for his health and others


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:51 pm 
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Invade wrote:
COVID-19 now has huge momentum and, as far as I can tell, shows no signs of slowing down. It's scary to say that we might only just be getting started with this saga, and I'm no longer optimistic for the sports world to get going this year, which may see write-offs for the NBA and Formula 1, to name but two sports. Perhaps this is an overreaction, but checking the graphs and statistics everyday only brings pessimism.

My only question is whether or not more damage can be done by being in a prolonged state of global lockdown then riding out the virus in a tempered capacity which is still somewhat cautious but involves far less lockdown...? Here I'm thinking of jobs and economic impact which might have damaging effects which are less obvious to the health nonetheless of the general population.

I think you are balancing global recession against mortality rates.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:53 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:


I guess it highlights the level of risk the doctors and nurses are taking?

An article I read from Italy yesterday mentioned that more than 40 doctors have passed away so far there. They truly do risk their lives on a daily basis

Yeah the impression I'm getting is that the longer the exposure to the virus then the greater the fatality risk.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:55 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in a press briefing a few days ago:

"I went to a coronavirus ward in a hospital earlier today and I made sure to shake everyone's hand"

30 minutes ago:


I guess it highlights the level of risk the doctors and nurses are taking?

And that's exactly the point missed by the sensationalism. Assuming he got it at a hospital visit - and that's most likely - if he shook "everyone's hand" then he potentially and unnecessarily passed it along. His "blitz spirit I'm not going to stop handshaking, that's defeat" mentality just further endangered the health of the hospital workers.

Yeah that was quite dumb really.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:47 pm 
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Invade wrote:
My only question is whether or not more damage can be done by being in a prolonged state of global lockdown then riding out the virus in a tempered capacity which is still somewhat cautious but involves far less lockdown...? Here I'm thinking of jobs and economic impact which might have damaging effects which are less obvious to the health nonetheless of the general population.

It is a fair question, and one that I have been pondering myself. I don't know the answer, but my concern is that this question has not even been asked among those who are responsible for the current policy for fighting the pandemic. As I alluded to previously, in a democratic system short term thinking will invariably be favoured, as the long term strategy is rarely a vote winner.


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