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Which driver won each intra-team battle in Australia?
Poll ended at Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:06 pm
Hamilton 11%  11%  [ 43 ]
Bottas 0%  0%  [ 2 ]
Vettel 3%  3%  [ 14 ]
Raikkonen 8%  8%  [ 33 ]
Ricciardo 11%  11%  [ 43 ]
Verstappen 0%  0%  [ 2 ]
Perez 9%  9%  [ 35 ]
Ocon 1%  1%  [ 3 ]
Stroll 9%  9%  [ 35 ]
Sirotkin 1%  1%  [ 3 ]
Sainz 3%  3%  [ 12 ]
Hulkenberg 7%  7%  [ 27 ]
Gasly 3%  3%  [ 11 ]
Hartley 6%  6%  [ 26 ]
Grosjean 1%  1%  [ 5 ]
Magnussen 9%  9%  [ 35 ]
Alonso 10%  10%  [ 40 ]
Vandoorne 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Ericsson 6%  6%  [ 24 ]
Leclerc 3%  3%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 408
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:06 pm 
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In 2018, I'm going to create a topic after each race to try and determine who we, the collective PF1 forum, consider won the intra-team battle at each race. I appreciate there will be some bias (or maybe even a lot of bias) when it comes to the more popular drivers, but hopefully there are enough objective opinions that we get fair(ish) results.

Pretty simple, really: all twenty drivers are included in the poll and you have ten votes. Place one vote for the driver within each team that you think did a better job in Australia. I know some people will have different methods of determining that and that's fine. All I ask is that you try and be consistent from team to team, and use something a little more complex than 'which driver do I prefer?' ;) The vote is open for a week and I'll post the results in the Bahrain thread (although they'll be visible here anyway for anyone who wants to discuss them prior to then). And if you want to post your selections and/or reasoning then go for it!

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Last edited by Jenson's Understeer on Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Nice idea,

Not too many difficult calls on this one.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:34 pm 
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I'm afraid you have missed Magnussen and Grosjean.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:31 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm afraid you have missed Magnussen and Grosjean.


Still, at least that's not the biggest cock-up involving a Haas this weekend :lol:

(I've edited them in now which apparently resets the votes, so if anyone who voted already sees this, that's why it's showing you as not having voted. Sorry about that!)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Nice idea, and I like it! :thumbup:

Aside from the obvious votes for drivers who beat their teammate in every way (Hamilton, Perez, Stroll, Alonso) the ones I voted for are:

Raikkonen over Vettel:
I feel that Kimi did a better job over the weekend, and only lost out in the race due to circumstances outside his control.
Ricciardo over Verstappen: Max threw away this race, so he obviously loses out on my vote.
Sainz over Hulkenberg: Sainz finished behind, but for a very justifiable reason. And up to that he looked the better of the two Renaults.
Hartley over Gasly: But nobody really won, because they're both driving a Honda engine! :twisted:
KMag over RoGro: Magnussen was ahead at the start and made that decisive move on Verstappen. His pace seemed weaker shortly before the double DNF, but I still gave it to him on the strength of what went before.
Ericsson over Leclerc: Since it was impossible to judge Ericsson in the race, I had to give this one to him on the basis of his qualifying.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:06 pm 
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I went for:

Hamilton - obvious one here.
Raikkonen - ahead in qualifying and ahead in the race until the VSC. Seb didn't do anything wrong in the race, and quite possibly was just sitting behind Kimi when he could've gone faster, but without the VSC he was only going to finish 3rd.
Ricciardo - he made a mistake in practice and was punished accordingly. Max had the better quali but made a bigger mistake which damaged his car and ultimately lead to a spin. Also Danny Ric's overtake on Hulkenberg was lovely. Both were a little below par, though.
Perez - both FI drivers were kind of anonymous but Sergio was ahead in quali and the race. Forgettable weekend for the team, anyway.
Stroll - Yes, Sirotkin had a DNF, but he was a way behind in quali and was behind Stroll when he retired. He was also lucky he didn't get taken out when he cut across a Sauber exiting the first corner of the race.
Hulkenberg - Faster in quali and didn't really do anything wrong in the race. Meanwhile Sainz had a trip through the gravel which cost him a position to one of the McLarens. Yes, he was struggling at the end of the race but Nico was ahead anyway.
Hartley - tough one to call as Gasly made a mistake in quali while Hartley made a mistake at turn one. Hartley was then lapping quicker, but that's no surprise as he was in clean air while Gasly was stuck behind Ericsson, I think it was. And then Gasly's engine let go. So as both had forgettable races, I've given the nod to Hartley because he got within three hundreths of getting a Toro Rosso into Q2.
Magnussen - Strong weekend for both drivers and neither really did anything wrong. Kmag gets my vote because he was ahead on Saturday, ahead in the race before the cock-ups, and his first corner move on Verstappen was perfectly judged.
Alonso - Probably the easiest choice outside of Hamilton/Bottas
Leclerc - Tough one. Leclerc within a tenth of Ericsson in quali, which given their respective experience in F1 (and in Melbourne) is no small feat. He then undid the good work by making an awful start, and then Ericsson retired. Gone with Charles as I think his qualifying performance was more impressive.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:22 pm 
Grosjean 1 K-mag 10. The Grosjean vote was me too.

Once Verstappen spun, Grosjean was 2.7 seconds behind K-mag. He closed him down and had DRS on him for about 7-8 laps. K-mag was slow, massively holding up Grosjean.

Once K-mag pitted, Grosjean's first lap was 0.8 quicker than K-mags and he was likely about to "overcut" him which is so hard to do in modern F1 unless you have a huge speed advantage. K-mag was slow. This is why Haas left Grosjean out for an additional lap, the only drivers faster than him at that point was Hamilton, Kimi and Vettel


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:08 am 
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lamo wrote:
Grosjean 1 K-mag 10. The Grosjean vote was me too.

Once Verstappen spun, Grosjean was 2.7 seconds behind K-mag. He closed him down and had DRS on him for about 7-8 laps. K-mag was slow, massively holding up Grosjean.

Once K-mag pitted, Grosjean's first lap was 0.8 quicker than K-mags and he was likely about to "overcut" him


Some corrections: I have it one single lap he was in DRS range on the S/F straight, and his first lap once Magnussen pitted was actually slower than the lap before. The lap after that was quicker, but then it remains to be seen what Magnussen was going to do on the fresher tyre vs what Grosjean was doing on the ultra's.

I gave this to Magnussen as well. He outqualified Grosjean, he took an opportunistic and excellent fourth place and what would have happened for the rest is unknown. I can't give Grosjean the point based solely on doing a few faster laps.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:10 am 
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I gave it to Hamilton, Raikkonen, Ricciardo, Hulkenberg, Alonso, Magnussen, Stroll, Hartley, Perez, Ericsson.

Gave the Sauber win to Ericsson, but Lerclerc's qualifying performance is really a thumbs up for him. First qualifying, almost as fast as Ericsson. We'll see how he develops further.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:48 am 
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Someone voted for Bottas.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:58 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Someone voted for Bottas.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Sirotkin, Ocon, Vandoorne and Verstappen also have one or two votes - Bottas was probably the worst with regards to his teammate but neither of these others should have a vote.

For all others you could make a reasoned case even if most wouldn't agree, but for these five it's pretty clear-cut.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:11 am 
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mds wrote:
lamo wrote:
Grosjean 1 K-mag 10. The Grosjean vote was me too.

Once Verstappen spun, Grosjean was 2.7 seconds behind K-mag. He closed him down and had DRS on him for about 7-8 laps. K-mag was slow, massively holding up Grosjean.

Once K-mag pitted, Grosjean's first lap was 0.8 quicker than K-mags and he was likely about to "overcut" him


Some corrections: I have it one single lap he was in DRS range on the S/F straight, and his first lap once Magnussen pitted was actually slower than the lap before. The lap after that was quicker, but then it remains to be seen what Magnussen was going to do on the fresher tyre vs what Grosjean was doing on the ultra's.

I gave this to Magnussen as well. He outqualified Grosjean, he took an opportunistic and excellent fourth place and what would have happened for the rest is unknown. I can't give Grosjean the point based solely on doing a few faster laps.

I'd agree with you regarding a few faster laps in isolation, but OTOH a significant pace difference just points to the slower driver not doing anything special, either. KM made an opportunistic move at the beginning, but with overtaking being so extremely difficult it could be argued that he did nothing of note after, so should that be enough to make him team mate victor (although KM did qualify better, to be fair)?

I'm sitting on the fence on this one, as I didn't pay much attention to Grosjean, but based on the stats above I can see why he might get a vote


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:21 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
lamo wrote:
Grosjean 1 K-mag 10. The Grosjean vote was me too.

Once Verstappen spun, Grosjean was 2.7 seconds behind K-mag. He closed him down and had DRS on him for about 7-8 laps. K-mag was slow, massively holding up Grosjean.

Once K-mag pitted, Grosjean's first lap was 0.8 quicker than K-mags and he was likely about to "overcut" him


Some corrections: I have it one single lap he was in DRS range on the S/F straight, and his first lap once Magnussen pitted was actually slower than the lap before. The lap after that was quicker, but then it remains to be seen what Magnussen was going to do on the fresher tyre vs what Grosjean was doing on the ultra's.

I gave this to Magnussen as well. He outqualified Grosjean, he took an opportunistic and excellent fourth place and what would have happened for the rest is unknown. I can't give Grosjean the point based solely on doing a few faster laps.

I'd agree with you regarding a few faster laps in isolation, but OTOH a significant pace difference just points to the slower driver not doing anything special, either. KM made an opportunistic move at the beginning, but with overtaking being so extremely difficult it could be argued that he did nothing of note after, so should that be enough to make him team mate victor (although KM did qualify better, to be fair)?


Well that last part - if you add in qualifying, then yes, for me that is enough. Qualified better, started better/more opportunistic, ran higher.

But as I said in previous post, this is one of the battles where you could make a case for either even if not everybody agrees.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:26 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
lamo wrote:
Grosjean 1 K-mag 10. The Grosjean vote was me too.

Once Verstappen spun, Grosjean was 2.7 seconds behind K-mag. He closed him down and had DRS on him for about 7-8 laps. K-mag was slow, massively holding up Grosjean.

Once K-mag pitted, Grosjean's first lap was 0.8 quicker than K-mags and he was likely about to "overcut" him


Some corrections: I have it one single lap he was in DRS range on the S/F straight, and his first lap once Magnussen pitted was actually slower than the lap before. The lap after that was quicker, but then it remains to be seen what Magnussen was going to do on the fresher tyre vs what Grosjean was doing on the ultra's.

I gave this to Magnussen as well. He outqualified Grosjean, he took an opportunistic and excellent fourth place and what would have happened for the rest is unknown. I can't give Grosjean the point based solely on doing a few faster laps.

I'd agree with you regarding a few faster laps in isolation, but OTOH a significant pace difference just points to the slower driver not doing anything special, either. KM made an opportunistic move at the beginning, but with overtaking being so extremely difficult it could be argued that he did nothing of note after, so should that be enough to make him team mate victor (although KM did qualify better, to be fair)?

I'm sitting on the fence on this one, as I didn't pay much attention to Grosjean, but based on the stats above I can see why he might get a vote


Just to add to this, Magnussen was in position to jump Verstappen into the first corner because he a) outqualified Grosjean and b) made a better start than Grosjean, who was forced to defend against Hulkenberg rather than think about gaining any positions. Meanwhile Magnussen got away well and took a small risk around the outside (from his onboard it's actually really close with Verstappen) to gain P4.

Obviously I'm not saying that the start is all that matters, but if Grosjean did have a better race pace then he put himself into a position where he wasn't able to show it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:36 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Someone voted for Bottas.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I take it that Lewis locked his wheels once, so damn him if he gets a vote!!!!

(I voted for Hamilton of course)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:48 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
In 2018, I'm going to create a topic after each race to try and determine who we, the collective PF1 forum, consider won the intra-team battle at each race. I appreciate there will be some bias (or maybe even a lot of bias) when it comes to the more popular drivers, but hopefully there are enough objective opinions that we get fair(ish) results.

Pretty simple, really: all twenty drivers are included in the poll and you have ten votes. Place one vote for the driver within each team that you think did a better job in Australia. I know some people will have different methods of determining that and that's fine. All I ask is that you try and be consistent from team to team, and use something a little more complex than 'which driver do I prefer?' ;) The vote is open for a week and I'll post the results in the Bahrain thread (although they'll be visible here anyway for anyone who wants to discuss them prior to then). And if you want to post your selections and/or reasoning then go for it!

You're probably going to store the data from each round by giving one point to the winning team mate, but it would be interesting to see also how the percentage of total votes builds up during the season. The results could actually tip in favor of the other driver if they are closely matched.

So if we take one team as an example you might have these results after 5 rounds:

Driver A: 3 wins (48% votes)
Driver B: 2 wins (52% votes)

Just a thought :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:31 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
In 2018, I'm going to create a topic after each race to try and determine who we, the collective PF1 forum, consider won the intra-team battle at each race. I appreciate there will be some bias (or maybe even a lot of bias) when it comes to the more popular drivers, but hopefully there are enough objective opinions that we get fair(ish) results.

Pretty simple, really: all twenty drivers are included in the poll and you have ten votes. Place one vote for the driver within each team that you think did a better job in Australia. I know some people will have different methods of determining that and that's fine. All I ask is that you try and be consistent from team to team, and use something a little more complex than 'which driver do I prefer?' ;) The vote is open for a week and I'll post the results in the Bahrain thread (although they'll be visible here anyway for anyone who wants to discuss them prior to then). And if you want to post your selections and/or reasoning then go for it!

You're probably going to store the data from each round by giving one point to the winning team mate, but it would be interesting to see also how the percentage of total votes builds up during the season. The results could actually tip in favor of the other driver if they are closely matched.

So if we take one team as an example you might have these results after 5 rounds:

Driver A: 3 wins (48% votes)
Driver B: 2 wins (52% votes)

Just a thought :)


Actually, I'd intended to do that as well. I'm sure there'll be a small margin of error (for instance, Bottas getting a vote) which means you've either got people voting for their favourite drivers or people mistakenly voting for a particular driver, but in general I think there will be enough votes to overcome that sort of thing.

I think the acid test will be a race weekend where, say, Vandoorne just shades Alonso. I'm sure there are more Alonso fans on here than Vandoorne fans, so in that situation does Alonso still come out on top by virtue of having a bigger fanbase?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:44 am 
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I seem to be in the majority apart from Vettel, I know he got lucky to get in front of Kimi but once he was in front Kimi seemed to have no pace.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:19 am 
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pokerman wrote:
I seem to be in the majority apart from Vettel, I know he got lucky to get in front of Kimi but once he was in front Kimi seemed to have no pace.


Looking at Kimi's lap times he looked to be just managing his tyres to ensure he wasn't left with nothing to defend with against Ricciardo at the end of the race.
He was able to speed up at the end once he knew his tyres were going to last.
Kimi would have been P2 without the VSC.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:16 am 
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Laz_T800 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I seem to be in the majority apart from Vettel, I know he got lucky to get in front of Kimi but once he was in front Kimi seemed to have no pace.


Looking at Kimi's lap times he looked to be just managing his tyres to ensure he wasn't left with nothing to defend with against Ricciardo at the end of the race.
He was able to speed up at the end once he knew his tyres were going to last.
Kimi would have been P2 without the VSC.

Yes he would have been P2 but it's sort of hard to judge when a driver stops trying for 50% of the race.

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2017: 9th Place
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:56 am 
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I think Ericsson was looking much faster before he retired - so gave the vote to him - not a bad drive by LeClerc but not great.

most of the rest reasonable - Raikonnen clearly the best Ferrari driver on the weekend - unlucky - although only Merc stuffing up the gap management and Bottas' accident gave Ferrari the win


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:37 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I seem to be in the majority apart from Vettel, I know he got lucky to get in front of Kimi but once he was in front Kimi seemed to have no pace.


Looking at Kimi's lap times he looked to be just managing his tyres to ensure he wasn't left with nothing to defend with against Ricciardo at the end of the race.
He was able to speed up at the end once he knew his tyres were going to last.
Kimi would have been P2 without the VSC.

Yes he would have been P2 but it's sort of hard to judge when a driver stops trying for 50% of the race.


Quit trying for 50% of the race? So he finishes third when only trying for half the race? WOW, perhaps that is why Ferrari keeps him!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I seem to be in the majority apart from Vettel, I know he got lucky to get in front of Kimi but once he was in front Kimi seemed to have no pace.


Looking at Kimi's lap times he looked to be just managing his tyres to ensure he wasn't left with nothing to defend with against Ricciardo at the end of the race.
He was able to speed up at the end once he knew his tyres were going to last.
Kimi would have been P2 without the VSC.

Yes he would have been P2 but it's sort of hard to judge when a driver stops trying for 50% of the race.


Quit trying for 50% of the race? So he finishes third when only trying for half the race? WOW, perhaps that is why Ferrari keeps him!

I think the point is that he stopped pressing the leader(s) after the stops and settled for 3rd. So it's quite hard to argue he did anything special


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I seem to be in the majority apart from Vettel, I know he got lucky to get in front of Kimi but once he was in front Kimi seemed to have no pace.


Looking at Kimi's lap times he looked to be just managing his tyres to ensure he wasn't left with nothing to defend with against Ricciardo at the end of the race.
He was able to speed up at the end once he knew his tyres were going to last.
Kimi would have been P2 without the VSC.

Yes he would have been P2 but it's sort of hard to judge when a driver stops trying for 50% of the race.


Quit trying for 50% of the race? So he finishes third when only trying for half the race? WOW, perhaps that is why Ferrari keeps him!

I think the point is that he stopped pressing the leader(s) after the stops and settled for 3rd. So it's quite hard to argue he did anything special

Cheers :thumbup:

The point here of the thread is to pick one driver over the other and perhaps give reasons, I also said that Kimi was unlucky, when did it become a bashing post?

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