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 Post subject: Kvyat out...again maybe?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:15 pm 
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You couldn't make this stuff up !

http://www.planetf1.com/news/kvyat-faci ... xe-report/

I really hope it's not true, I'd like him to at least see the season out - he's been messed around so much this year.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
You couldn't make this stuff up !

http://www.planetf1.com/news/kvyat-faci ... xe-report/

I really hope it's not true, I'd like him to at least see the season out - he's been messed around so much this year.

That sort of makes sense with Tost saying they would like to evaluate another driver, giving Hartley just 1 F1 outing wouldn't be a fair evaluation.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Kyvat is their booty call. They will fit him in between other choices they prefer to stick with.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:29 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

That's actually not true it's just that the Red Bull scouting system of the past few years has been somewhat deficient, it perhaps doesn't take a scouting genius to realise that a driver that has just won 6 F3 races in a row in his rookie season might be a bit special and not ended up in a bidding war with Mercedes over his services if they had signed him up earlier.

They clearly missed out on the likes of Leclerc and Norris.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:54 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

That's actually not true it's just that the Red Bull scouting system of the past few years has been somewhat deficient, it perhaps doesn't take a scouting genius to realise that a driver that has just won 6 F3 races in a row in his rookie season might be a bit special and not ended up in a bidding war with Mercedes over his services if they had signed him up earlier.

They clearly missed out on the likes of Leclerc and Norris.

It's a big picture issue with large teams like Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes following Red Bull's example and investing in young drivers. Much cheaper to nurture a young driver in the feeder series and give them their break in F1 than to pay top dollar for a proven star (the way McLaren and Ferrari have been for years). It's sort of like the difference between a smaller club that develops young players and the Real Madrids and Manchester Uniteds of the world that buy them once they are the finished product.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:59 pm 
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This is just stupid in my opinion. This really isn't good for Kvyat's confidence if he may possibly return next year. The team said he has taken Sainz's seat. Surely should remain the same until the season is over. The amount they are switching around at the moment is more costly than keeping Kvyat there. Having him fill in some gaps when he's been the one of the main drivers this year is just unfair. If he's not good enough, get rid of him rather than doing so many unpredictable things. In my opinion though, he should remain for the rest of this season and be Gasly's team mate next year. He has shown that he sometimes does have decent pace this year and has been very similar to Sainz during qualifying. Gasly may get better than him over time, But to begin with, I think it is likely that Kvyat will be the better of the 2. I just don't know why the team is taking so many risks at the moment.

I will also add that getting 2 new drivers is very unlikely to work out as well as Verstappen and Sainz did in 2015. So they really should keep hold of Kvyat next year because of his experience. Out of the drivers they are considering, I very much doubt the team will be stronger without Kvyat as one of the drivers. In some areas, he has looked pretty much as good as Sainz.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:27 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


I know it seems like the team don't think much of him, but you have to admit he has missed out on a fair few points down to bad luck. He would have about 15 more quite easily if it wasn't for this.

Australia - He was far faster than Sainz that day. He soon got let past and pulled away, then had a problem with his tyres and had to pit on lap 50. Even after this, he set the fastest lap and then finished pretty close behind Sainz. That cost him 2 points. In China, Sainz had a dreadful start and nearly crashed and then in attempt to get going, hit the barriers. Kvyat had a far better start but soon ran into problems and had to retire. I doubt he'll have finished ahead of Sainz but I think he'll have managed 8th. 4 points. In Monaco, he got knocked out by Perez and this cost him another 2. In Baku, Kvyat looked quite a lot stronger in qualifying than Sainz. He also had a better start. I think he'll have managed 7th here, so 6 points.

Even in Canada, although it was his own fault that he did something against the rules that gave him a penalty, he wouldn’t have done this if he didn't have his reliability problems. I think it is is quite likely he'll have managed 9th or 10th.

This does add up to roughly 15, so it even though it is all guess work, I am certain he would have around 18 points in total. And if Sainz had Kvyat's level of bad luck, in the races where he got points, he wouldn't actually have significantly more.

Something that I've noticed since Kvyat has gone is that both Sainz and Gasly have had 1 very bad weekend. So that probably wouldn't have been any better than keeping Kvyat there anyway. I think that with a fresh start and a full season, Kvyat will be capable of being pretty strong again. He has shown us that he can be strong at times even this year.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:42 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


I know it seems like the team don't think much of him, but you have to admit he has missed out on a fair few points down to bad luck. He would have about 15 more quite easily if it wasn't for this.

Australia - He was far faster than Sainz that day. He soon got let past and pulled away, then had a problem with his tyres and had to pit on lap 50. Even after this, he set the fastest lap and then finished pretty close behind Sainz. That cost him 2 points. In China, Sainz had a dreadful start and nearly crashed and then in attempt to get going, hit the barriers. Kvyat had a far better start but soon ran into problems and had to retire. I doubt he'll have finished ahead of Sainz but I think he'll have managed 8th. 4 points. In Monaco, he got knocked out by Perez and this cost him another 2. In Baku, Kvyat looked quite a lot stronger in qualifying than Sainz. He also had a better start. I think he'll have managed 7th here, so 6 points.

Even in Canada, although it was his own fault that he did something against the rules that gave him a penalty, he wouldn’t have done this if he didn't have his reliability problems. I think it is is quite likely he'll have managed 9th or 10th.

This does add up to roughly 15, so it even though it is all guess work, I am certain he would have around 18 points in total. And if Sainz had Kvyat's level of bad luck, in the races where he got points, he wouldn't actually have significantly more.

Something that I've noticed since Kvyat has gone is that both Sainz and Gasly have had 1 very bad weekend. So that probably wouldn't have been any better than keeping Kvyat there anyway. I think that with a fresh start and a full season, Kvyat will be capable of being pretty strong again. He has shown us that he can be strong at times even this year.


But the point is the team clearly don't fancy him. If they don't fancy him then I can't see what harm trying out different options does too them. It just makes sense.

And you can see their point. Even if Kvyat did have 18 points that's still miles off Sainz's 48 points. He simply has not done well enough.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:25 pm 
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To be honest Kvyat has brought it upon himself. He has been atrocious and hasn't worked on improving his mental fortitude at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:32 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

That's actually not true it's just that the Red Bull scouting system of the past few years has been somewhat deficient, it perhaps doesn't take a scouting genius to realise that a driver that has just won 6 F3 races in a row in his rookie season might be a bit special and not ended up in a bidding war with Mercedes over his services if they had signed him up earlier.

They clearly missed out on the likes of Leclerc and Norris.

It's a big picture issue with large teams like Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes following Red Bull's example and investing in young drivers. Much cheaper to nurture a young driver in the feeder series and give them their break in F1 than to pay top dollar for a proven star (the way McLaren and Ferrari have been for years). It's sort of like the difference between a smaller club that develops young players and the Real Madrids and Manchester Uniteds of the world that buy them once they are the finished product.

Still it doesn't change the fact that Red Bull have been deficient in recent years.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:38 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
This is just stupid in my opinion. This really isn't good for Kvyat's confidence if he may possibly return next year. The team said he has taken Sainz's seat. Surely should remain the same until the season is over. The amount they are switching around at the moment is more costly than keeping Kvyat there. Having him fill in some gaps when he's been the one of the main drivers this year is just unfair. If he's not good enough, get rid of him rather than doing so many unpredictable things. In my opinion though, he should remain for the rest of this season and be Gasly's team mate next year. He has shown that he sometimes does have decent pace this year and has been very similar to Sainz during qualifying. Gasly may get better than him over time, But to begin with, I think it is likely that Kvyat will be the better of the 2. I just don't know why the team is taking so many risks at the moment.

I will also add that getting 2 new drivers is very unlikely to work out as well as Verstappen and Sainz did in 2015. So they really should keep hold of Kvyat next year because of his experience. Out of the drivers they are considering, I very much doubt the team will be stronger without Kvyat as one of the drivers. In some areas, he has looked pretty much as good as Sainz.

They had 2 new drivers with Ricciardo and Vergne as well, I do think it's best to keep one driver for continuity but Kvyat should really have been dropped after last year and replaced by the GP2 Champion, why that didn't happen is the bigger puzzle to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
This is just stupid in my opinion. This really isn't good for Kvyat's confidence if he may possibly return next year. The team said he has taken Sainz's seat. Surely should remain the same until the season is over. The amount they are switching around at the moment is more costly than keeping Kvyat there. Having him fill in some gaps when he's been the one of the main drivers this year is just unfair. If he's not good enough, get rid of him rather than doing so many unpredictable things. In my opinion though, he should remain for the rest of this season and be Gasly's team mate next year. He has shown that he sometimes does have decent pace this year and has been very similar to Sainz during qualifying. Gasly may get better than him over time, But to begin with, I think it is likely that Kvyat will be the better of the 2. I just don't know why the team is taking so many risks at the moment.

I will also add that getting 2 new drivers is very unlikely to work out as well as Verstappen and Sainz did in 2015. So they really should keep hold of Kvyat next year because of his experience. Out of the drivers they are considering, I very much doubt the team will be stronger without Kvyat as one of the drivers. In some areas, he has looked pretty much as good as Sainz.

They had 2 new drivers with Ricciardo and Vergne as well, I do think it's best to keep one driver for continuity but Kvyat should really have been dropped after last year and replaced by the GP2 Champion, why that didn't happen is the bigger puzzle to me.


They very clearly don't have any faith in Gasly at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:55 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
This is just stupid in my opinion. This really isn't good for Kvyat's confidence if he may possibly return next year. The team said he has taken Sainz's seat. Surely should remain the same until the season is over. The amount they are switching around at the moment is more costly than keeping Kvyat there. Having him fill in some gaps when he's been the one of the main drivers this year is just unfair. If he's not good enough, get rid of him rather than doing so many unpredictable things. In my opinion though, he should remain for the rest of this season and be Gasly's team mate next year. He has shown that he sometimes does have decent pace this year and has been very similar to Sainz during qualifying. Gasly may get better than him over time, But to begin with, I think it is likely that Kvyat will be the better of the 2. I just don't know why the team is taking so many risks at the moment.

I will also add that getting 2 new drivers is very unlikely to work out as well as Verstappen and Sainz did in 2015. So they really should keep hold of Kvyat next year because of his experience. Out of the drivers they are considering, I very much doubt the team will be stronger without Kvyat as one of the drivers. In some areas, he has looked pretty much as good as Sainz.

They had 2 new drivers with Ricciardo and Vergne as well, I do think it's best to keep one driver for continuity but Kvyat should really have been dropped after last year and replaced by the GP2 Champion, why that didn't happen is the bigger puzzle to me.


They very clearly don't have any faith in Gasly at all.

I actually don't think they have a clue, Ricciardo only got his promotion because Webber decided to retire, and then a couple of years ago Tost claimed that Kvyat was the second best driver he's had only behind Vettel.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:04 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
This is just stupid in my opinion. This really isn't good for Kvyat's confidence if he may possibly return next year. The team said he has taken Sainz's seat. Surely should remain the same until the season is over. The amount they are switching around at the moment is more costly than keeping Kvyat there. Having him fill in some gaps when he's been the one of the main drivers this year is just unfair. If he's not good enough, get rid of him rather than doing so many unpredictable things. In my opinion though, he should remain for the rest of this season and be Gasly's team mate next year. He has shown that he sometimes does have decent pace this year and has been very similar to Sainz during qualifying. Gasly may get better than him over time, But to begin with, I think it is likely that Kvyat will be the better of the 2. I just don't know why the team is taking so many risks at the moment.

I will also add that getting 2 new drivers is very unlikely to work out as well as Verstappen and Sainz did in 2015. So they really should keep hold of Kvyat next year because of his experience. Out of the drivers they are considering, I very much doubt the team will be stronger without Kvyat as one of the drivers. In some areas, he has looked pretty much as good as Sainz.

They had 2 new drivers with Ricciardo and Vergne as well, I do think it's best to keep one driver for continuity but Kvyat should really have been dropped after last year and replaced by the GP2 Champion, why that didn't happen is the bigger puzzle to me.


They very clearly don't have any faith in Gasly at all.

I actually don't think they have a clue, Ricciardo only got his promotion because Webber decided to retire, and then a couple of years ago Tost claimed that Kvyat was the second best driver he's had only behind Vettel.


TBF that could well have been right at the time.

I still don't see how that contradicts them not fancying Gasly.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:12 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
This is just stupid in my opinion. This really isn't good for Kvyat's confidence if he may possibly return next year. The team said he has taken Sainz's seat. Surely should remain the same until the season is over. The amount they are switching around at the moment is more costly than keeping Kvyat there. Having him fill in some gaps when he's been the one of the main drivers this year is just unfair. If he's not good enough, get rid of him rather than doing so many unpredictable things. In my opinion though, he should remain for the rest of this season and be Gasly's team mate next year. He has shown that he sometimes does have decent pace this year and has been very similar to Sainz during qualifying. Gasly may get better than him over time, But to begin with, I think it is likely that Kvyat will be the better of the 2. I just don't know why the team is taking so many risks at the moment.

I will also add that getting 2 new drivers is very unlikely to work out as well as Verstappen and Sainz did in 2015. So they really should keep hold of Kvyat next year because of his experience. Out of the drivers they are considering, I very much doubt the team will be stronger without Kvyat as one of the drivers. In some areas, he has looked pretty much as good as Sainz.

They had 2 new drivers with Ricciardo and Vergne as well, I do think it's best to keep one driver for continuity but Kvyat should really have been dropped after last year and replaced by the GP2 Champion, why that didn't happen is the bigger puzzle to me.


They very clearly don't have any faith in Gasly at all.

I actually don't think they have a clue, Ricciardo only got his promotion because Webber decided to retire, and then a couple of years ago Tost claimed that Kvyat was the second best driver he's had only behind Vettel.


TBF that could well have been right at the time.

I still don't see how that contradicts them not fancying Gasly.

No but I wouldn't have 100% faith in their judgement.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Neither would I but it's neither yours, or my judgement that is relevant when discussing why Gasly didn't replace Kvyat at the start of this season.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:04 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
This is just stupid in my opinion. This really isn't good for Kvyat's confidence if he may possibly return next year. The team said he has taken Sainz's seat. Surely should remain the same until the season is over. The amount they are switching around at the moment is more costly than keeping Kvyat there. Having him fill in some gaps when he's been the one of the main drivers this year is just unfair. If he's not good enough, get rid of him rather than doing so many unpredictable things. In my opinion though, he should remain for the rest of this season and be Gasly's team mate next year. He has shown that he sometimes does have decent pace this year and has been very similar to Sainz during qualifying. Gasly may get better than him over time, But to begin with, I think it is likely that Kvyat will be the better of the 2. I just don't know why the team is taking so many risks at the moment.

I will also add that getting 2 new drivers is very unlikely to work out as well as Verstappen and Sainz did in 2015. So they really should keep hold of Kvyat next year because of his experience. Out of the drivers they are considering, I very much doubt the team will be stronger without Kvyat as one of the drivers. In some areas, he has looked pretty much as good as Sainz.

They had 2 new drivers with Ricciardo and Vergne as well, I do think it's best to keep one driver for continuity but Kvyat should really have been dropped after last year and replaced by the GP2 Champion, why that didn't happen is the bigger puzzle to me.


They very clearly don't have any faith in Gasly at all.

I actually don't think they have a clue, Ricciardo only got his promotion because Webber decided to retire, and then a couple of years ago Tost claimed that Kvyat was the second best driver he's had only behind Vettel.

I still believe Kvyat has the potential to turn around and perform like he did at red bull in 2015. He was at least decent then. I think it is just the pressure of not knowing if you will be in for the rest of the season, being swapped around all the time and coping with the amount of penalty points he has that has affected his performance. In the first half of the season, he didn't look much worse than Sainz on the whole. Once he gets himself together, I am sure he will be decent again. I'm hoping they'll keep him next year. If he doesn't improve, then they should kick him out, just not in the middle of the season as I think that is unfair.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:29 pm 
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This is the second year in a row he's been really poor. Nobody gets away with that.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:30 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
This is the second year in a row he's been really poor. Nobody gets away with that.

But he hasn't been really poor every race has he. He was very good in China last year although it seems his team thought he was in the wrong with that clash with Vettel. He was also pretty much matching Sainz towards the end of last year too. And then as I said, Sainz hardly looked any better than Kvyat on the whole right near the start of this year. And a weekend as recent as Italy, he looked stronger than Sainz the whole time. His better performances just unfortuantly tend to be when the car isn't really capable of points. But I'd say he has more decent races than poor ones, just very few good ones. I don't think I could say he's been "really poor" on the whole over the last 2 years. He's just been up and down and a bit inconsistent.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:46 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
This is the second year in a row he's been really poor. Nobody gets away with that.

But he hasn't been really poor every race has he. He was very good in China last year although it seems his team thought he was in the wrong with that clash with Vettel. He was also pretty much matching Sainz towards the end of last year too. And then as I said, Sainz hardly looked any better than Kvyat on the whole right near the start of this year. And a weekend as recent as Italy, he looked stronger than Sainz the whole time. His better performances just unfortuantly tend to be when the car isn't really capable of points. But I'd say he has more decent races than poor ones, just very few good ones. I don't think I could say he's been "really poor" on the whole over the last 2 years. He's just been up and down and a bit inconsistent.


No he's too good to be poor every race but isn't anything like consistent enough. He has had misfortune but has scored 8 points to Sainz 90 since his return. Even without the bad luck he wouldn't have scored more than half of Sainz points. That's a long way from good enough. And since STR exists as a proving ground for young drivers I see little point in them continuing with Kvyat. What will they find out about him they don't know already.

He's not awful but the likes of Kobayshi, Di Resta, and Maldanado lost their seats after much better seasons than Sainz has put in for the past 2 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:00 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
This is the second year in a row he's been really poor. Nobody gets away with that.

But he hasn't been really poor every race has he. He was very good in China last year although it seems his team thought he was in the wrong with that clash with Vettel. He was also pretty much matching Sainz towards the end of last year too. And then as I said, Sainz hardly looked any better than Kvyat on the whole right near the start of this year. And a weekend as recent as Italy, he looked stronger than Sainz the whole time. His better performances just unfortuantly tend to be when the car isn't really capable of points. But I'd say he has more decent races than poor ones, just very few good ones. I don't think I could say he's been "really poor" on the whole over the last 2 years. He's just been up and down and a bit inconsistent.


No he's too good to be poor every race but isn't anything like consistent enough. He has had misfortune but has scored 8 points to Sainz 90 since his return. Even without the bad luck he wouldn't have scored more than half of Sainz points. That's a long way from good enough. And since STR exists as a proving ground for young drivers I see little point in them continuing with Kvyat. What will they find out about him they don't know already.

He's not awful but the likes of Kobayshi, Di Resta, and Maldanado lost their seats after much better seasons than Sainz has put in for the past 2 years.


I guess you meant Kvyat on your last sentence. I'll be honest though, although he has been up and down, I think Kvyat has overall looked better the last 2 years than Kobyashi did in 2014. I also think he has looked better than Maldonado did in 2014 too. Kobyashi and Maldonado had several crashes but then I guess the cars they had really did limit what they could do. They were both terrible.

I think Kvyat is just if not more likely to improve and turn out better than a new driver will be strait away. So I still think Kvyat should remain. I just think it is incredibly unlikely that 2 new drivers will work out better for the team than keeping one who has 4 years experience, is still young and at one point, was certainly good. At his age, there is no reason why things won't turn around. Perhaps he just felt under pressure with Sainz. To me, it always has seemed that these to dislike each other more than any other driver pairing at the moment.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:28 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
This is the second year in a row he's been really poor. Nobody gets away with that.

But he hasn't been really poor every race has he. He was very good in China last year although it seems his team thought he was in the wrong with that clash with Vettel. He was also pretty much matching Sainz towards the end of last year too. And then as I said, Sainz hardly looked any better than Kvyat on the whole right near the start of this year. And a weekend as recent as Italy, he looked stronger than Sainz the whole time. His better performances just unfortuantly tend to be when the car isn't really capable of points. But I'd say he has more decent races than poor ones, just very few good ones. I don't think I could say he's been "really poor" on the whole over the last 2 years. He's just been up and down and a bit inconsistent.


No he's too good to be poor every race but isn't anything like consistent enough. He has had misfortune but has scored 8 points to Sainz 90 since his return. Even without the bad luck he wouldn't have scored more than half of Sainz points. That's a long way from good enough. And since STR exists as a proving ground for young drivers I see little point in them continuing with Kvyat. What will they find out about him they don't know already.

He's not awful but the likes of Kobayshi, Di Resta, and Maldanado lost their seats after much better seasons than Sainz has put in for the past 2 years.


I guess you meant Kvyat on your last sentence. I'll be honest though, although he has been up and down, I think Kvyat has overall looked better the last 2 years than Kobyashi did in 2014. I also think he has looked better than Maldonado did in 2014 too. Kobyashi and Maldonado had several crashes but then I guess the cars they had really did limit what they could do. They were both terrible.

I think Kvyat is just if not more likely to improve and turn out better than a new driver will be strait away. So I still think Kvyat should remain. I just think it is incredibly unlikely that 2 new drivers will work out better for the team than keeping one who has 4 years experience, is still young and at one point, was certainly good. At his age, there is no reason why things won't turn around. Perhaps he just felt under pressure with Sainz. To me, it always has seemed that these to dislike each other more than any other driver pairing at the moment.


I was really meaning 2012 as Kobayashi's last real season. He couldn't get a driver for 2013. Maldanado's last season was 2015 when other drivers sued him as a brake. He did actual drive well though and was certainly more competitive than Kvyat has been this year.

Kvyat has scored 8 points in two seasons at STR. It's pretty much impossible for a new driver to have a much lower yield! Besides, STR don't exist to do as well as they can, they exist to feed drivers (and staff) to the senior team. Kvyat has been looked at and discounted. I see little value for them in keeping him.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:56 am 
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Alex53 wrote:
Kyvat is their booty call. They will fit him in between other choices they prefer to stick with.

Exactly. He should tell them to stuff it but, dang!, it's an F1 Car!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:07 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

That's actually not true it's just that the Red Bull scouting system of the past few years has been somewhat deficient, it perhaps doesn't take a scouting genius to realise that a driver that has just won 6 F3 races in a row in his rookie season might be a bit special and not ended up in a bidding war with Mercedes over his services if they had signed him up earlier.

They clearly missed out on the likes of Leclerc and Norris.


I didn't phrase this very well..

Slim pickings for RBJT - I agree that Leclerc looks like he could be top notch.

Other than Seb, and now Max (who may get poached before he wins a title for RB) I can't see the benefit in a junior team.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:53 am 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

That's actually not true it's just that the Red Bull scouting system of the past few years has been somewhat deficient, it perhaps doesn't take a scouting genius to realise that a driver that has just won 6 F3 races in a row in his rookie season might be a bit special and not ended up in a bidding war with Mercedes over his services if they had signed him up earlier.

They clearly missed out on the likes of Leclerc and Norris.


I didn't phrase this very well..

Slim pickings for RBJT - I agree that Leclerc looks like he could be top notch.

Other than Seb, and now Max (who may get poached before he wins a title for RB) I can't see the benefit in a junior team.


But how many WDC winning drivers do you think that a junior team can produce anyway? It's a very very small pool, plus other teams have their own academies like Ferrari for example.

It is similar to any other sport that has young athletes tried in their academies, not all of them become international superstars.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

That's actually not true it's just that the Red Bull scouting system of the past few years has been somewhat deficient, it perhaps doesn't take a scouting genius to realise that a driver that has just won 6 F3 races in a row in his rookie season might be a bit special and not ended up in a bidding war with Mercedes over his services if they had signed him up earlier.

They clearly missed out on the likes of Leclerc and Norris.


I didn't phrase this very well..

Slim pickings for RBJT - I agree that Leclerc looks like he could be top notch.

Other than Seb, and now Max (who may get poached before he wins a title for RB) I can't see the benefit in a junior team.


But how many WDC winning drivers do you think that a junior team can produce anyway? It's a very very small pool, plus other teams have their own academies like Ferrari for example.

It is similar to any other sport that has young athletes tried in their academies, not all of them become international superstars.


If it was me I'd ditch the junior team, and with the money saved you could finance a top driver in the main team.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seems to be sensible. Red Bull are clearly not sold on Gasly or Kvyat so it stands to reason they would use the rest of the season to test out various options. They no exactly what Kvyat can do by now and he;s not scoring points to contribute to the WCC anyway so no need to run him.


Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

That's actually not true it's just that the Red Bull scouting system of the past few years has been somewhat deficient, it perhaps doesn't take a scouting genius to realise that a driver that has just won 6 F3 races in a row in his rookie season might be a bit special and not ended up in a bidding war with Mercedes over his services if they had signed him up earlier.

They clearly missed out on the likes of Leclerc and Norris.


I didn't phrase this very well..

Slim pickings for RBJT - I agree that Leclerc looks like he could be top notch.

Other than Seb, and now Max (who may get poached before he wins a title for RB) I can't see the benefit in a junior team.

It seems that neither do Red Bull, apparently they've been trying to sell it off these past few years.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:

Slim pickings... maybe the days of a "junior team" are coming to the end as there appears not to be any superstars on the horizon currently.

That's actually not true it's just that the Red Bull scouting system of the past few years has been somewhat deficient, it perhaps doesn't take a scouting genius to realise that a driver that has just won 6 F3 races in a row in his rookie season might be a bit special and not ended up in a bidding war with Mercedes over his services if they had signed him up earlier.

They clearly missed out on the likes of Leclerc and Norris.


I didn't phrase this very well..

Slim pickings for RBJT - I agree that Leclerc looks like he could be top notch.

Other than Seb, and now Max (who may get poached before he wins a title for RB) I can't see the benefit in a junior team.


But how many WDC winning drivers do you think that a junior team can produce anyway? It's a very very small pool, plus other teams have their own academies like Ferrari for example.

It is similar to any other sport that has young athletes tried in their academies, not all of them become international superstars.


If it was me I'd ditch the junior team, and with the money saved you could finance a top driver in the main team.

Yes, that's one idea. It's probably worth it for them as they keep the RBJT, so without knowing their business model it's difficult to say.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:57 pm 
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I don't think they can change kvyat with another driver anyway. don't the rules only allow for a maximum of 4 drivers in a team for the season. sure there is a rule somewhere that states this.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:59 pm 
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wire2004 wrote:
I don't think they can change kvyat with another driver anyway. don't the rules only allow for a maximum of 4 drivers in a team for the season. sure there is a rule somewhere that states this.


I think that isn't hard and fast.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
I don't think they can change kvyat with another driver anyway. don't the rules only allow for a maximum of 4 drivers in a team for the season. sure there is a rule somewhere that states this.


I think that isn't hard and fast.



it's definently in the regulations. I've found it. but have no idea how to put a image on my phone onto here. I can't copy and paste.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:03 pm 
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wire2004 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
I don't think they can change kvyat with another driver anyway. don't the rules only allow for a maximum of 4 drivers in a team for the season. sure there is a rule somewhere that states this.


I think that isn't hard and fast.



it's definently in the regulations. I've found it. but have no idea how to put a image on my phone onto here. I can't copy and paste.

But what's preventing replacing Kvyat with Gasly from Mexico onwards. That's within 4 drivers per team right?
We had Ferrari with 4 drivers in 2009, and HRT too ran 4 somewhere 2011 or 12.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:09 pm 
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wire2004 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
I don't think they can change kvyat with another driver anyway. don't the rules only allow for a maximum of 4 drivers in a team for the season. sure there is a rule somewhere that states this.


I think that isn't hard and fast.



it's definently in the regulations. I've found it. but have no idea how to put a image on my phone onto here. I can't copy and paste.


=>
Quote:
6.1 a) During a season each team will be permitted to use four drivers. Changes may be made
at any time before the start of the qualifying practice session provided any change
proposed after 16.00 on the day of scrutineering receives the consent of the stewards.
Additional changes for reasons of force majeure will be considered separately.


More drivers can be permitted through force majeure, but "we don't like Kvyat anymore and we want to test out more drivers than just Gasly and Hartley" doesn't exactly seem to qualify as force majeure ;)

But anyway, they can perfectly run Gasly-Hartley for the remainder of the season.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:29 am 
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Maybe this is a ruse to help Max win this weekend


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:59 am 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Maybe this is a ruse to help Max win this weekend

No it only actually works after Kvyat gets dropped. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:21 am 
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I remember back in Austria, Horner seemed very defensive on Kvyat's incident. He didn't seem to think it was that bad and he thought Verstappen and Alonso would soon forget about it. He may have had an incident the following race and in Singapore too, but at the time in Austria, Horner did say that Kvyat would be in Toro Rosso in 2018. Does he know things we don't? I know this was a while ago, but you could somehow tell he was hiding something. I still actually think it is most likely that Kvyat will be one of the 2 drivers in the team next year and I think that will be the best option available unless a driver with a decent amount of experience moves to this team. But I think that is unlikely. I just don't see how Kvyat's next season could possibly be worse than a new drivers season. He may have had 2 off seasons, but they were not worse then the average drivers first season I'd say. And the fact he did have at leased 2 very decent seasons and he's still very young, there is no reason why he may not turn around, especially when pared with a new team mate. He probably won't feel under pressure like he did with Sainz. I know it was largely luck that made him beat Ricciardo, but at times, he clearly looked stronger than him which shows he had potential. Because of his age, I doubt that ability has totally gone and I think it is just unfair to kick him out of the sport entirely. He should at least have a chance with another team. He has had a several decent races this year. They have just mainly been when the car isn't really strong enough for a points finish. Both these last 2 seasons for Kvyat have been totally messed up with bad luck, reliability problems and the team kicking him from one team to another and replacing him with other drivers. In my view, next year he should have a full season without being messed around, if his form continues how it has been on the whole, then I think he should be out of the sport. But I think he is capable of more than he has managed to show just recently.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:37 pm 
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Gasly & Hartley confirmed for Mexico:
https://www.pitpass.com/60498/Hartley-to-partner-Gasly-in-Mexico

Yet another (re)boot for Kvyat!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:20 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Gasly & Hartley confirmed for Mexico:
https://www.pitpass.com/60498/Hartley-to-partner-Gasly-in-Mexico

Yet another (re)boot for Kvyat!


Due to starting at the back Hartley didn't really get a fair go in Austin to show how good he can be so I think it's fair that he's being given another go in Mexico.


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