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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:02 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I love how Button's always "mystified" when he doesn't have pace.


Wouldn't it be great to read "intrigued" instead ? :]

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:36 am 
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Jenson is not on the same level as lewis.
He is a good driver,but is overatted because lewis was so bad last season,and yet ppl talk like jenson beat lewis at his best.lewis anywhere near his best will beat jenson everytime,and jenson is lucky lewis has had 2 penalties this season and terrible pitstops,to be fair jenson had one too.but lewis has been far more unlucky,and yet he still has more points than jenson.and with qualy being so tight jenson will consistently start even more places behind lewis than we've seen in the past.
jenson needs the car to be perfectly balanced to do a good job.but any driver should be able to do a good job in a perfectly balanced car,its the ones who can still do a good job in a not so perfect car aswell which have more talent. i.e. Alonso, maldonado and grosjean
and he is not quick enough in qualy.
and jenson is supposed to be great at setup,and yet he keeps moaning about the balance of the car,after he makes changes.
Jenson is right up there with the likes of Fisichella, Ralf Schumacher, Trulli, Jacques Villenueve and Barrichello....

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:52 am 
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callMEcrazy wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I love how Button's always "mystified" when he doesn't have pace.


Wouldn't it be great to read "intrigued" instead ? :]


At least he didn't blame the wind!


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Not great, can't believe Caterham have better traction into the tunnel.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Another DNF.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:11 pm 
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King1982 wrote:
Jenson is not on the same level as lewis.
He is a good driver,but is overatted because lewis was so bad last season,and yet ppl talk like jenson beat lewis at his best.lewis anywhere near his best will beat jenson everytime,and jenson is lucky lewis has had 2 penalties this season and terrible pitstops,to be fair jenson had one too.but lewis has been far more unlucky,and yet he still has more points than jenson.and with qualy being so tight jenson will consistently start even more places behind lewis than we've seen in the past.
jenson needs the car to be perfectly balanced to do a good job.but any driver should be able to do a good job in a perfectly balanced car,its the ones who can still do a good job in a not so perfect car aswell which have more talent. i.e. Alonso, maldonado and grosjean
and he is not quick enough in qualy.
and jenson is supposed to be great at setup,and yet he keeps moaning about the balance of the car,after he makes changes.
Jenson is right up there with the likes of Fisichella, Ralf Schumacher, Trulli, Jacques Villenueve and Barrichello....



No He isn't, He is a WDC and beat some of which you have mentioned and beat lewis.
He wasn't lucky last season (or 2009 on that matter) he just was better than lewis
Ever considered that maybe Jenson is having a bad year so far and had a good year last year? both are very good drivers who have some good days and some bad ones and that is just it.


Given that, other than china and australia Jenson has been very frustrating this year


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:16 pm 
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You about to cry?

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
King1982 wrote:
Jenson is not on the same level as lewis.
He is a good driver,but is overatted because lewis was so bad last season,and yet ppl talk like jenson beat lewis at his best.lewis anywhere near his best will beat jenson everytime,and jenson is lucky lewis has had 2 penalties this season and terrible pitstops,to be fair jenson had one too.but lewis has been far more unlucky,and yet he still has more points than jenson.and with qualy being so tight jenson will consistently start even more places behind lewis than we've seen in the past.
jenson needs the car to be perfectly balanced to do a good job.but any driver should be able to do a good job in a perfectly balanced car,its the ones who can still do a good job in a not so perfect car aswell which have more talent. i.e. Alonso, maldonado and grosjean
and he is not quick enough in qualy.
and jenson is supposed to be great at setup,and yet he keeps moaning about the balance of the car,after he makes changes.
Jenson is right up there with the likes of Fisichella, Ralf Schumacher, Trulli, Jacques Villenueve and Barrichello....



No He isn't, He is a WDC and beat some of which you have mentioned and beat lewis.
He wasn't lucky last season (or 2009 on that matter) he just was better than lewis
Ever considered that maybe Jenson is having a bad year so far and had a good year last year? both are very good drivers who have some good days and some bad ones and that is just it.


Given that, other than china and australia Jenson has been very frustrating this year


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:31 pm 
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This is easily Jenson's worst season in a competitive car in his career.

This weekend he looked hell awful. I know McLaren messed up by pitting him when he did. But he just looks slow, clumsy and a bit lost really.

I guess the one saving grace is that is surely can't get any worse than this. It's interesting that last year we had Lewis fans claiming it was his worst season and Jenson's best. This year seems to be the opposite. Obviously Lewis is going to beat him, but by how much should be interesting.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:06 pm 
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Disappointment big time in Spain, Hamilton who started 24th went ahead of Button at the finish line. Monaco unable to pass a back marker car for like majority of the race. Then gets tiddled and hits kovi and ruins his race and his own in the process.

Has something changed in his life? Jessica isn't on the scene as much?

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:57 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I love how Button's always "mystified" when he doesn't have pace.


It does not stop there, he has been equally mystified when he has had pace after previously having none. Then again Alonso has made the same sort of comment so there should be no real shock It's all down to the tyres and getting them to work under the many conditions you find yourself in. The tyres are so much on a knife edge nowadays that you can get several aspects which significantly effect performance. Have you not noticed that we have had 6 different F1 winners this season and the decisive factor being getting the tyres to work. No one has this one solved, just a better spread bet than others. Generally if you can't get the heat into the tyres, Jenson suffers far more than Lewis. When the tyres are over heating the opposite generally applies.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:29 pm 
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anyone else think Mclaren screwed up the strategy on Jenson today?

Why didnt they leave him out longer? he was clearly faster than riccardo and could have kept going for another 10-15 laps like vettel did.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:44 pm 
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xenon wrote:
anyone else think Mclaren screwed up the strategy on Jenson today?

Why didnt they leave him out longer? he was clearly faster than riccardo and could have kept going for another 10-15 laps like vettel did.


I was thinking that too. Though ultimately, I think he just didn't have the pace to make such a strategy work.

Not being able to get past Heiki, even at Monaco, was atrocious. Here's hoping he sorts out whatever issues he's having.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:52 pm 
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i don't think his pace was bad at all, I was watching his lap times during the race and they weren't much different from the leaders.

As for passing Kova, apart from when Perez overtaking a couple of back markers, was there any genuine fair overtakes today? Perez vs Kova doesn't count as he cut the chicane. The renault engine was very good out of the corners, you saw that with Kimi holding everyone up.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:12 pm 
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Jenson needs to sort his quali out. He might be a little worse than Lewis in this department but not bad enough to start nearly 10 places adrift of his teammate like at Monaco!

Anyways, Jenson wasn't too far off Lewis in 2010 and beat him convincingly in 2011. To claim Jenson is on the level of Fisichella is too harsh.

He couldn't pass Kovalainen because the Caterham wasn't slow enough. Jenson was fast, but Kovalainen had good pace considering what he was driving. In 2010 Alonso had much trouble passing the backmarkers and they were even slower than Kovalainen was this year.

(On a side note: JV wasn't so bad either. Had trouble winning 1997 WDC in a vastly superior car, but also won Indy 500 and CART when that meant something. His main flaw, however, was thinking he was better than he was.)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:59 am 
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A friend of mine was partying with Jenson last night at the Grafton Lounge in Dublin :)
They also talked Montreal tactics :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:30 am 
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Jenson was very bad at Monaco...Low on pace...

4.(place) 4 L. HAMILTON GBR Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 1:18.806 lap 46 -fastest lap

18.(place) 3 J. BUTTON GBR Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 1:19.923 lap 51- fastest lap

More than a second a drift :thumbdown:
From here:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/timing.aspx

Also lap times:
Quote:
Button
50 1:20.871
51 1:19.923
52 1:20.351
53 1:20.048
54 1:21.745
55 1:21.759
56 1:20.454
57 1:20.543
58 1:20.474
59 1:20.139
60 1:20.206
61 1:20.257
62 1:20.298
63 1:20.566
64 1:22.038
65 1:20.457
66 1:21.293
67 1:21.689
68 1:32.430
69 1:24.838
70 1:26.341


Quote:
Hamilton
50 1:20.538
51 1:20.358
52 1:20.104
53 1:19.854
54 1:20.360
55 1:20.707
56 1:20.096
57 1:19.774
58 1:19.601
59 1:19.418
60 1:19.471
61 1:19.491
62 1:19.493
63 1:19.874
64 1:19.518
65 1:19.998
66 1:19.888
67 1:19.759
68 1:20.768
69 1:23.034
70 1:26.335


Check laps 57-67 it's almost 1s slower than Hamilton...Not sure when he was behind riccardo but anyway... if tou check link above you will see that all laps were off the pace of Hamilton.

And on these laps Button was on much fresh tires than Hamilton.
Hamilton pit in lap 29, Button on lap 38.

Button just seems to struggle with the car from 2-3 race.
Did Mclaren made some major changes to the car that not suit Button?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:19 pm 
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benmc wrote:
This is easily Jenson's worst season in a competitive car in his career.

This weekend he looked hell awful. I know McLaren messed up by pitting him when he did. But he just looks slow, clumsy and a bit lost really.

I guess the one saving grace is that is surely can't get any worse than this. It's interesting that last year we had Lewis fans claiming it was his worst season and Jenson's best. This year seems to be the opposite. Obviously Lewis is going to beat him, but by how much should be interesting.


I agree with the it can't get any worse part. No where to go but up now. I expect a resurgence from here on out.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:54 pm 
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As a Button fan I was very worried last year when I learnt they would be taking away downforce at the back of the car as he doesn't like it to slide around. When he won in Melbourne I thought it wasn't going to be that bad, but as it turns out it has been even worse! Although it seems to be more because of the tires than anything else.

I honestly believe, over the course of a season, that if Button has a car that is perfectly suited to what he wants, that he can beat anyone out there to the WDC, even other drivers that have a car that is perfect for them. I honestly believe he is that good. But that doesn't make him the best driver out there. I think its Alonso, as much as I hate to say it.

There is still a long way to go this season and he can certainly turn it around, lets just hope he does.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Lupin wrote:
As a Button fan I was very worried last year when I learnt they would be taking away downforce at the back of the car as he doesn't like it to slide around. When he won in Melbourne I thought it wasn't going to be that bad, but as it turns out it has been even worse! Although it seems to be more because of the tires than anything else.

I honestly believe, over the course of a season, that if Button has a car that is perfectly suited to what he wants, that he can beat anyone out there to the WDC, even other drivers that have a car that is perfect for them. I honestly believe he is that good. But that doesn't make him the best driver out there. I think its Alonso, as much as I hate to say it.

There is still a long way to go this season and he can certainly turn it around, lets just hope he does.


exactly what i think


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Jenson in front of Trinity College Dublin today

http://cache.tcm.ie/media/images/b/Bava ... _large.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... M4iOM9SmJU

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:19 am 
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Oh dear. I don't think I've ever seen anyone sesason deterioriate in such dramatic fashion. What the hell has gone wrong. Clearly Hamiltons lack of progress at Silverstone suggests it's the car as much as anything but still... Button fighting with Force India...
I hope they get it sorted, with such a quality field of drivers I want to see them all up front!
Pretty sure Button can strike '12 off the list of potential WDC years.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:33 am 
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I think people are over-reacting. Its pretty clear now that the car has fundamental problems, and its well known that Lewis is far better at handling a misbehaving car. When you add on the fact they took the setup in the wrong direction (which could well have been based on the fact the car is performing badly) and its not hard to see why he's struggled worse and for a few races longer than Lewis. I think the nature of the Silverstone track negated whatever Lewis does differently and hence they were a lot closer. They'll sort the car out, and when they do Button will be back on the pace.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:22 pm 
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he has got to do better.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Did better than expect after his Q1 comments was expecting him to miss out, think he will finish behind Hamilton, the Lotii and Vettel.

Hammo on it this weekend.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:09 pm 
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P4 was pretty solid in the end. I breathed a sigh of relief. :thumbup: Hammy was flying though. surely he`s on for the win :nod:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:14 pm 
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fuelscoops wrote:
P4 was pretty solid in the end. I breathed a sigh of relief. :thumbup: Hammy was flying though. surely he`s on for the win :nod:

Yeah, there are some tracks where Hamilton is unbeatable, Canada and Hunagry.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:06 pm 
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kingjamie wrote:
fuelscoops wrote:
P4 was pretty solid in the end. I breathed a sigh of relief. :thumbup: Hammy was flying though. surely he`s on for the win :nod:

Yeah, there are some tracks where Hamilton is unbeatable, Canada and Hunagry.


Both tracks where JB has produces solid wins before, i hear forecasts are expecting rain tomorrow!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:31 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
kingjamie wrote:
fuelscoops wrote:
P4 was pretty solid in the end. I breathed a sigh of relief. :thumbup: Hammy was flying though. surely he`s on for the win :nod:

Yeah, there are some tracks where Hamilton is unbeatable, Canada and Hunagry.


Both tracks where JB has produces solid wins before, i hear forecasts are expecting rain tomorrow!

I have started dancing already.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:43 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
kingjamie wrote:
fuelscoops wrote:
P4 was pretty solid in the end. I breathed a sigh of relief. :thumbup: Hammy was flying though. surely he`s on for the win :nod:

Yeah, there are some tracks where Hamilton is unbeatable, Canada and Hunagry.


Both tracks where JB has produces solid wins before, i hear forecasts are expecting rain tomorrow!

Button has never done well at a dry Hungaoring and Hamilton has either won or crashed at Canada.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:12 pm 
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The six tenths gap to Lewis is worrying. But considering Jenson has been complaining so much about understeer, fourth is not too bad at all. It's great to see Jenson back to something near his best.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:48 am 
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As a Kimi fan Button makes me nervous tomorrow. I really think Kimi needs to clear Button by corner one or he will be stuck behind Button forever. No fault at all of Button's, but I think the Macca's will not be kind on their tires in the dry and Button will slow field.

On the other hand if it rains Button will be in great shape to win as he has already done twice here in the rain.

Should be a great race...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:28 am 
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I think the most positive thing to take away from qualifying is the fact that his laptimes are very much 'in the mix' with the other front runners. The negative is then of course the fact that the anomaly to that front running pace is Lewis, half second up on everyones best. This suggests to me that the only front running driver to find the sweet spot with the set up was Lewis, with everyone else slightly off balance. I think that is encouraging for JB as he's obviously not the only one not quite dialled in perfectly. Everyone bar Lewis struggled with a touch of over/understeer.

Hopefully Jenson is on for a good race. Like I said, he's in the mix.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:33 am 
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Jenson (notwithstanding the bulk of races so far this season!) is generally stronger in the race than in quali. I do not think, however, that his gift for reading changeable conditions will be of much use if that Macca really is as hopeless on inters as Silverstone and Hockenheim quali suggested!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:05 am 
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Also, Button's car was damaged during qualifying.

http://en.espnf1.com/hungary/motorsport ... 85634.html

Might have cost him a tenth or two maybe? P3?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:28 am 
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Hakkattack wrote:
As a Kimi fan Button makes me nervous tomorrow. I really think Kimi needs to clear Button by corner one or he will be stuck behind Button forever. No fault at all of Button's, but I think the Macca's will not be kind on their tires in the dry and Button will slow field.

On the other hand if it rains Button will be in great shape to win as he has already done twice here in the rain.

Should be a great race...


I wouldn't be so concerned, Jenson said that the changes he/McLaren made to the car are working but are better suited for the race than for qualifying.

You're right though, the start is going to be crucial. All the front running cars seem so closely matched (except Hamilton, who should dominate) that a lot will be decided in the first stops. Even Alonso should be competitive in race trim. McLaren don't seem so kind on their tyres but their early stint pace should allow Hamilton to control the race.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:59 pm 
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What on earth was that strategy about.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:36 pm 
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wdc is over for him. needs to help with wcc.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Fair to say that came out of the blue!

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