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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:39 pm 
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If Pirelli were asked to produce a fast degrading tyre.

Then they have succeeded.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:51 pm 
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f1driverwanabe wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
If Pirelli were asked to produce a fast degrading tyre.

Then they have succeeded.


I thought trolls were bad enuff...but kind of response is this... if you cannot shed to light into this don't bother man....it ain't worth your time.


Well the the OP asked the question 'Did Pirelli get it right?'

I answered that question.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Another tyre thread? Really?

They produce what they were asked to produce.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Another tyre thread? Really?

They produce what they were asked to produce.


Laura you'll have to refrain from using commonsence when posting, the thread creator obviously doesn't want the real answer but to ignore all evidence because his favourite drive (whoever that is) can not win with these tyres lol

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:29 pm 
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http://www.formula1onlive.com/2012/05/f ... -with.html

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:32 pm 
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WelshWayne1978 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Another tyre thread? Really?

They produce what they were asked to produce.


Laura you'll have to refrain from using commonsence when posting, the thread creator obviously doesn't want the real answer but to ignore all evidence because his favourite drive (whoever that is) can not win with these tyres lol

:lol:

But it's the truth!

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Where getting 2-3 stops which in my opinion is bang on.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:54 pm 
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f1driverwanabe wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
If Pirelli were asked to produce a fast degrading tyre.

Then they have succeeded.


I thought trolls were bad enuff...but kind of response is this... if you cannot shed to light into this don't bother man....it ain't worth your time.


you can't seriously be annoyed with a simple, succinct response to your post such as this one! You started off this post stating you wanted a serious discussion but within a couple of sentences it just degenerated into a rant with phrases like 'drive like grandad' and describing the season so far as a 'farce'.

Personally I'm enjoying this season and I'm sure the teams will quickly get to grips with these tyres.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:55 pm 
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f1driverwanabe wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
If Pirelli were asked to produce a fast degrading tyre.

Then they have succeeded.


I thought trolls were bad enuff...but kind of response is this... if you cannot shed to light into this don't bother man....it ain't worth your time.


Whats wrong with the response? Am i missing something?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Yes, is my honest reply. for all the reasons others have stated plus the fact that with the rule changes that were enforced on the teams this year, i think quite honestly nobody really know where they were until Spain anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:06 pm 
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RunningMan wrote:
f1driverwanabe wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
If Pirelli were asked to produce a fast degrading tyre.

Then they have succeeded.


I thought trolls were bad enuff...but kind of response is this... if you cannot shed to light into this don't bother man....it ain't worth your time.


Well the the OP asked the question 'Did Pirelli get it right?'

I answered that question.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:30 pm 
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RunningMan wrote:
If Pirelli were asked to produce a fast degrading tyre.

Then they have succeeded.

Degrading is not the problem, the narrow window of performance is.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:13 am 
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Viva Pirelli! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:50 am 
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I like the exciting races but... I needed to change my car tyres a couple of weeks ago, and I got given some options, when I heard pirelli just for a very brief moment I thought no way they degrade too quick, before realizing that their road tyres have nothing to do with f1 (ultimately I went for good years because they were cheapest).

I think pirelli got it mostly right, although it would have been better if there were more trade offs, maybe options can go much much faster (maybe 1 second? make it so that 2 changes of options = 1 change of primes) but degrade at the rate they go now, while primes last longer. So teams have to decide between more pit stops but faster speed or less pit stops but more consistent speeds.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:20 am 
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Most people talk as if it is possible to perfect only 1 attribute without some secondary consequences.

Pirelli were clearly told to make the tyres that will not lost as long as say older Michelin or Bridgestones were lasting.
So they designed the tyres according to what was asked from them.

I see lot of people complaining and whining about the so called narrow operating/temperature window and criticise Pirelli for that. Do they think there is magic compound that will degrade faster but wont have narrow operating window? This effect is direct result of the primary design criteria and this is only second season for Pirelli. They might get that problem sorted (if you call it a problem, some teams clearly seem to get their setup right to avoid this issue at particular track ) over time. And time is important factor with limited in season and their own private testing.
The other argument is "Tyres falling of the cliff". Again looking at lap times of all drivers there is clear and steady degradation until that cliff is reached. Now its up to teams to learn when the tyres are going to go off and not be too greedy and keep their drivers out there for too long. With fast degrading tyre there has to be a point where the tyres become useless, otherwise it wont be a fast degrading tyre. The aim is to ensure teams are not able to do 1 stop races, so they are again doing what. That cliff is necessary to ensure that.

Watching people complain about the narrow temperature window is actually funny considering they dont try to understand why that might be happening or to even acknowledge that it can be direct by-product of designing the tyre the way they are asked to.

Frankly the only thing that they need to work on is getting more speed out of these tyres if possible. Otherwise the I like the current F1 the way it is. We are at the stage where large portion of mechanical uncertainty is taken away from the sport due to freeze on engine development and the need for critical parts to last for multiple races which has made them extremely reliable. So little bit uncertainty due to tyres is not bad at all.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:50 am 
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I hear what you're saying, f1driverwanabe. It is indeed possible for tyres to both fulfill the design criteria set by the teams and still be unsatisfactory. Anyone who has ever worked as a freelance designer knows that the client may be ask for the wrong things or even change their mind after receiving the deliverables. But I am under the impression that the teams signed off on these tyres and that releases Pirelli from any responsibility. Pirelli did a great job of delivering what was asked for them and they took a huge PR risk in the process. The teams may now feel unsatisfied with the tyres and that's completely fine. I'm sure Pirelli are more than happy to do whatever tweaks are needed for next season. They have always been very cooperative even when the teams strained the relationship by refusing to provide a decent test car. Blaming them for delivering a product according to spec is unfair and immature.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:42 am 
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why did the OP make this thread, there is so many pirelli threads including one barely a few days old.

He asked no argument so I wont take part simples.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:50 am 
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No, Pirelli didn't get it 100% right. The operating window could be wider and also I thought more could be done to make the harder compounds more useful in a race without having to make them degrade more.

HOWEVER, they did get it 95% right, and they have my full support. Unfortunately, this 5% they didn't get right was enough for a MASSIVE witch-hunt against them to be started here and still continues today.

I can't believe how much of a scapegoat they've been made, especially since a lot of the blame can also be attributed to the refueling ban as well as the EBD ban.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:04 am 
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f1driverwanabe wrote:
From the polls created many fans do like the Pirelli Tyres....but i haven't heard 1 good answer to address concerns of the other group of fans that do not like Pirelli.

you just get the same old.

Pirelli did what they were asked to.
it's more exciting
I like Pirelli
bla bla bla

I hope someone from the Pirelli camp can put a good case to address he concerns of the drivers and their fans who have voiced their opinions against pirelli.



Pirelli did address the comments from Schumacher; they were asked to provide a specific tyre, which they did.

What else do you want to know?

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:59 am 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17432510

You only have to look at that list of "Tyre" discussions to know it is an actual issue. No matter if its good or bad for the sport it is a hot topic for discussion.

Tyres are playing a bigger part in this years racing compared to anything put together. If we get another two race winners added to the 5 in the next 3 races - how can some one argue?

What if we get 10 winners at the end of the season and thats without Rain effected "crazy" races.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:53 am 
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Pirelli have got it right, to what they were asked to do..

The question should be, did the FIA ask for the right thing..

Personally I love these tyres, looking after your tyres has been and always will be part of motorsport, drivers just moan when things don't go their way, as it always has been


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:19 pm 
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lonix2011 wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17432510

You only have to look at that list of "Tyre" discussions to know it is an actual issue. No matter if its good or bad for the sport it is a hot topic for discussion.

Tyres are playing a bigger part in this years racing compared to anything put together. If we get another two race winners added to the 5 in the next 3 races - how can some one argue?

What if we get 10 winners at the end of the season and thats without Rain effected "crazy" races.

Depends on who they are. If Hamilton and Webber each win a race, no one will complain. Ditto for Raikkonen, Massa Schumacher. It's the new winners like Rosberg and Maldonado which appears to bother some people, as if they're not supposed to win or something must be wrong if they won, even if they drove a great race barely putting a wheel out of place. That is a disappointing reaction but thankfully it is only a minority.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
lonix2011 wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17432510

You only have to look at that list of "Tyre" discussions to know it is an actual issue. No matter if its good or bad for the sport it is a hot topic for discussion.

Tyres are playing a bigger part in this years racing compared to anything put together. If we get another two race winners added to the 5 in the next 3 races - how can some one argue?

What if we get 10 winners at the end of the season and thats without Rain effected "crazy" races.

Depends on who they are. If Hamilton and Webber each win a race, no one will complain. Ditto for Raikkonen, Massa Schumacher. It's the new winners like Rosberg and Maldonado which appears to bother some people, as if they're not supposed to win or something must be wrong if they won, even if they drove a great race barely putting a wheel out of place. That is a disappointing reaction but thankfully it is only a minority.

I seriously don't think some people understand those who are not happy with the tyres. I don't car who wins, I don't care if my favourite driver wins every remaining race this season. I'm first and foremost an F1 fan, may favourite driver was not around when I started watching F1 and will be long gone when I watch my final race. I do not like what F1 has become as a result of the tyres. It's not all about their favourite driver/team for some of us. I put the best interests, in my opinion, of F1 ahead of any team or driver I support or have supported. This is not about people being miffed because their favourite is not doing well.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:52 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
I seriously don't think some people understand those who are not happy with the tyres. I don't car who wins

My comments may not apply to your particular views, but I read things like 'what if Karthikeyan wins a race' from detractors which suggests many do have an issue with who wins. It is okay for them if a recognised name wins but if a midfielder wins then it's perceived to be a devalued race (by them) and proof of something being wrong.

Quote:
I don't care if my favourite driver wins every remaining race this season. I'm first and foremost an F1 fan, may favourite driver was not around when I started watching F1 and will be long gone when I watch my final race. I do not like what F1 has become as a result of the tyres.

As am I, for 20 years and I am loving this season, it is thoroughly entertaining for a change.

Quote:
It's not all about their favourite driver/team for some of us. I put the best interests, in my opinion, of F1 ahead of any team or driver I support or have supported. This is not about people being miffed because their favourite is not doing well.

It may not be for you but it certainly is for some, we have some major fanboys on here remember!

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
I seriously don't think some people understand those who are not happy with the tyres. I don't car who wins

My comments may not apply to your particular views, but I read things like 'what if Karthikeyan wins a race' from detractors which suggests many do have an issue with who wins. It is okay for them if a recognised name wins but if a midfielder wins then it's perceived to be a devalued race (by them) and proof of something being wrong.

Quote:
I don't care if my favourite driver wins every remaining race this season. I'm first and foremost an F1 fan, may favourite driver was not around when I started watching F1 and will be long gone when I watch my final race. I do not like what F1 has become as a result of the tyres.

As am I, for 20 years and I am loving this season, it is thoroughly entertaining for a change.

Quote:
It's not all about their favourite driver/team for some of us. I put the best interests, in my opinion, of F1 ahead of any team or driver I support or have supported. This is not about people being miffed because their favourite is not doing well.

It may not be for you but it certainly is for some, we have some major fanboys on here remember!

What you fail to realise is, the vast majority of people entering into a serious debate about the tyres do share my view. They are not complaining because their favourite is not doing well. And if you truly believed it was only some who were only saying it because of their favourite why did you say 'If Hamilton and Webber each win a race, no one will complain.' That implies you do think it's only people complaining because their favourite isn't doing well.

You also completely missed the posters point about Karthikeyan. The poster was suggesting that he has not shown he is good enough and is certainly not in a good enough car to win. Yet people seem to be happy that the tyres mean we get some unusual winners. The poster was taking it to the nth degree and asking if the most unlikely of winners, Karthikeyan, did win, what would that say about the tyres. Would they be great for throwing up such an unusual winner or would it be a farce because someone who has no chance of currently winning did win?

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:22 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
What you fail to realise is, the vast majority of people entering into a serious debate about the tyres do share my view. They are not complaining because their favourite is not doing well.

It is true of some, not of others.

Quote:
And if you truly believed it was only some who were only saying it because of their favourite why did you say 'If Hamilton and Webber each win a race, no one will complain.' That implies you do think it's only people complaining because their favourite isn't doing well.

I say no one will complain because if it is a 'regular' winner then they will not have grounds to complain on that line of argument. For them having new winners such as Rosberg and Maldonado is used as evidence that something is wrong. If Alonso or Hamilton wins the next race they will have less fuel for their argument on that basis.

Quote:
You also completely missed the posters point about Karthikeyan. The poster was suggesting that he has not shown he is good enough and is certainly not in a good enough car to win. Yet people seem to be happy that the tyres mean we get some unusual winners. The poster was taking it to the nth degree and asking if the most unlikely of winners, Karthikeyan, did win, what would that say about the tyres. Would they be great for throwing up such an unusual winner or would it be a farce because someone who has no chance of currently winning did win?

It hasn't just been said about Karthikeyan, but about other backmarkers too. The point is, they're taking things to the extreme and using those names to support their argument (referenced above). Karthikeyan isn't winning the next race, neither are the other backmarkers. There's an outside chance of a midfielder winning a race but more than likely it will be one of the drivers of the top teams who wins - as per usual.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Title edited: this is now the official tyre thread. Any others will be deleted and sanctions will follow for duplicate threads.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:57 pm 
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f1driverwanabe wrote:

Yes thanks for confirming you understand what i say, whether it's right or wrong at least your trying to get my point.

Now, the question is:

FIA/Constructors or whoever asked Pirelli to build them a tyre.....did they asked for this narrow temperature window and did they think or know that a 3 minute cloud in the sky can cause jenson button or whoever to go from the hero of Australia to the looser of Barcelona?



The tyres are pretty much the same as last year. The super Soft being the same. The tyres were tested and indeed the "New" soft even raced. Last year there was no sign of this critical temperature window.

So has pirelli put the tyre window in? Or have the cars changed in the off season that works the tyres different and never thought to tell Pirrelli this after testing in Abu dhabi or the race in Brazil last year?

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:15 pm 
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I stuck this up not long ago in one of the other threads. As they're soon to be no more I've c&p'd it here. Would still love to actually get some specific feedback from anyone who agrees with the statements in blue. It's not exactly about whether Pirelli got it right but if this is the official tyre thread it will have to diversify a little. Duped post follows, if you read it already there's nothing new:

We're going round in circles, I'd love to hear responses to these specific points, maybe we can get this debate moving somewhere interesting!

Sorry to shout but I can't bring myself to start a new thread on this! :lol:


I suggest:

1. The tyre sweet spot is so small and hard to identify that teams can only find it with a dose of luck. It’s so important that whoever finds it has a good chance of winning the race. Therefore there is significantly more luck involved in winning than there used to be.

2. The way the tyres degrade means that drivers are simply cruising around 4 seconds within the limit rather than adapting their style to reign in the limit and lap close to it.


I've taken some specific views, expressed repeatedly in these threads (the blue text), and responded in the way I think makes sense (the normal text underneath the blue). I'd love to get some specific responses countering my opinion.

(F1) Drivers haven't been going "flat out" all race for years.
No they haven’t. I’d argue they never have and in grand prix racing they shouldn’t. But preserving the tyres should be a skill, not a game of patience. See below.

If (legendary tyre destroyer) Hamilton can make them last then what's everyone else's excuse?
It's not just about making them last but making them work. But this demonstrates one of the key points: it doesn’t matter how you drive the tyres, it only matters how fast you drive them. All you can do to make them last is drive to a delta time. It’s about self control more than skill or style. Figuring out how to go fast whilst preserving the tyre has always been a key F1 skill, but with the current Pirelli’s it’s become comparatively redundant. Previously you were usually on the edge of adhesion given the temperatures you were trying to maintain and the style you were deploying etc. With these tyres you aren’t. They’ve also neutralised a key ‘weakness’: having a driving style that’s inherently hard on the tyres. Hamilton can make his tyres last as long as Button because the way you drive them doesn’t really matter, only how fast you go. And when you’re driving 4 seconds a lap within yourself, even the most wild style is smooth.

They all get the same tyres. If one team can make them work then the others just need to work harder/be cleverer/change their car.
Normally, yes. But if the sweet spot is so small that the best engineers in the world can only find it occasionally, or by accident, then it’s too small. There has to be a point where the sweet spot becomes impractically small, and if this isn’t it, where is it?

McLaren/Lotus are always quick, they must be making them work.
The pattern so far is McLaren and Lotus are vaguely up there with whatever team has managed to make the tyres work any given weekend. To me that suggests Macca and Lotus have cars good enough to be near the front without getting the best out of the tyres. Sauber, Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and Williams all seem to have slower cars, but all have been quicker than Macca/Lotus in one race or other. So if McLaren and Lotus really can make the tyres work, how have they been outpaced (not just beaten, but genuinely outpaced) by the likes of Williams, Sauber etc.?

It’s created competition/The more teams we see being competitive the better positioned we are to see who's the best or the most talented.
I think people define competition differently. To me it’s reduced competition (by introducing an effectively random differentiator), to others that random element is competition. The team that makes the tyres work will give their driver a potential showcase, but that's randomly diversifying competition, not improving it. (I can’t remember a season when the competitive order has been less clear at this stage, how can we be in a better positioned to judge anything? Except whether a random midfield driver has the racecraft skills to win when given a chance.)

I like all the unpredictability/seeing smaller teams get a chance/having different winners. Why do you want another walkover like last year?
Fair enough. I support Williams beyond any driver or team so I’m over the moon about their win (even though the circumstances devalue it in real terms, to me anyway). I can understand if this stuff doesn’t matter to you, obviously that’s fair enough, I’m not telling you not to like it like this. But it doesn’t alter the fact that it is like this, and if it avoids another walkover that will be a very small positive compared to the negative of devalued results.

At least it gives ‘lesser’ drivers a chance to shine and show what they can do.
This I agree with, though there will still be many that aren’t lucky enough to get that chance and I don't know if it gives much idea of their raw pace. Maldonado in particular had the opportunity to show us all he has talent, and that’s great.

EDIT
One I forgot:

Back in the turbo days drivers were often having to conserve fuel, which meant the cars weren't always as quick as they could be. Now that's seen as a classic era, what's the difference?
The difference is total. For arguments sake let's say lapping at full speed in a turbo car used two litres of fuel, and 1.5 when conserving it. The key is the drivers were still going as fast as they could, they had to keep the car on the edge of adhesion. It may have been going more slowly but we were still watching a driver in the same way, the difference in their skill was still a differentiator. They were not driving to a delta time but a delta quantity of fuel, if you like. This is the case with any number of imposed performance limitations, but it isn't the case with these tyres. A more accurate comparison would be if turbo era drivers saved fuel by driving 5% within the limit all the time, particularly when cornering. This is a difficult point to get across and maybe I'm not very good at it.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
f1driverwanabe wrote:

Yes thanks for confirming you understand what i say, whether it's right or wrong at least your trying to get my point.

Now, the question is:

FIA/Constructors or whoever asked Pirelli to build them a tyre.....did they asked for this narrow temperature window and did they think or know that a 3 minute cloud in the sky can cause jenson button or whoever to go from the hero of Australia to the looser of Barcelona?



The tyres are pretty much the same as last year. The super Soft being the same. The tyres were tested and indeed the "New" soft even raced. Last year there was no sign of this critical temperature window.

So has pirelli put the tyre window in? Or have the cars changed in the off season that works the tyres different and never thought to tell Pirrelli this after testing in Abu dhabi or the race in Brazil last year?


Yes, I would like to know exactly what the difference is in the tyres this time.

I think the compound may be the same but things like the contact patch have been changed.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Balibari wrote:

(F1) Drivers haven't been going "flat out" all race for years.
No they haven’t. I’d argue they never have and in grand prix racing they shouldn’t. But preserving the tyres should be a skill, not a game of patience. See below.


That seems pretty weak if you ask me.

They are no longer pushing at all. Before they were at least pushing somewhat.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
Balibari wrote:

(F1) Drivers haven't been going "flat out" all race for years.
No they haven’t. I’d argue they never have and in grand prix racing they shouldn’t. But preserving the tyres should be a skill, not a game of patience. See below.


That seems pretty weak if you ask me.

They are no longer pushing at all. Before they were at least pushing somewhat.

What like in 2005? When they had to preserve their tyres for the entire race to the point everyone was scared to overtake anyone.

Or the Turbo days when drivers had to conserve fuel?

Or the real old days when drivers had to conserve their cars because they were so fragile?

Conserving has always been a part of Formula One. You go flat out in bursts, like qualifying and just before pit stops etc. Instead of the cars and engines being unreliable like the 80's/90's we now have tyres that are possible "unreliable" and need care and attention.

I was watching the 1995 Oz Gp earlier and all it was was a race of attrition. It was whoever could drive around just quickly enough to keep up but slow enough that their car wouldn't break down would get the spoils. That was what F1 was like back then. It hasn't changed all that much now expect it's the tyres the driver has to preserve not the car itself.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
f1driverwanabe wrote:

Yes thanks for confirming you understand what i say, whether it's right or wrong at least your trying to get my point.

Now, the question is:

FIA/Constructors or whoever asked Pirelli to build them a tyre.....did they asked for this narrow temperature window and did they think or know that a 3 minute cloud in the sky can cause jenson button or whoever to go from the hero of Australia to the looser of Barcelona?



The tyres are pretty much the same as last year. The super Soft being the same. The tyres were tested and indeed the "New" soft even raced. Last year there was no sign of this critical temperature window.

So has pirelli put the tyre window in? Or have the cars changed in the off season that works the tyres different and never thought to tell Pirrelli this after testing in Abu dhabi or the race in Brazil last year?


Yes, I would like to know exactly what the difference is in the tyres this time.

I think the compound may be the same but things like the contact patch have been changed.



Made the "tread" wider and softened the compounds. the super soft remains the same so no compound is any softer than what was run last year.

tyres haven't changed from the Abu test and the Soft compound is still teh same one that ran without fault in Brazil.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Horner's thoughts about the tyres and how important they are this year:

http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/05/18/strat ... aF1.com%29

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
f1driverwanabe wrote:

Yes thanks for confirming you understand what i say, whether it's right or wrong at least your trying to get my point.

Now, the question is:

FIA/Constructors or whoever asked Pirelli to build them a tyre.....did they asked for this narrow temperature window and did they think or know that a 3 minute cloud in the sky can cause jenson button or whoever to go from the hero of Australia to the looser of Barcelona?



The tyres are pretty much the same as last year. The super Soft being the same. The tyres were tested and indeed the "New" soft even raced. Last year there was no sign of this critical temperature window.

So has pirelli put the tyre window in? Or have the cars changed in the off season that works the tyres different and never thought to tell Pirrelli this after testing in Abu dhabi or the race in Brazil last year?


Yes, I would like to know exactly what the difference is in the tyres this time.

I think the compound may be the same but things like the contact patch have been changed.



Made the "tread" wider and softened the compounds. the super soft remains the same so no compound is any softer than what was run last year.

tyres haven't changed from the Abu test and the Soft compound is still teh same one that ran without fault in Brazil.

The construction has changed too, not just the compound. Can't claim to remember how but if anyone really wants to know I'm sure google will help.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Balibari wrote:

(F1) Drivers haven't been going "flat out" all race for years.
No they haven’t. I’d argue they never have and in grand prix racing they shouldn’t. But preserving the tyres should be a skill, not a game of patience. See below.


That seems pretty weak if you ask me.

They are no longer pushing at all. Before they were at least pushing somewhat.

What like in 2005? When they had to preserve their tyres for the entire race to the point everyone was scared to overtake anyone.

Or the Turbo days when drivers had to conserve fuel?

Or the real old days when drivers had to conserve their cars because they were so fragile?

Conserving has always been a part of Formula One. You go flat out in bursts, like qualifying and just before pit stops etc. Instead of the cars and engines being unreliable like the 80's/90's we now have tyres that are possible "unreliable" and need care and attention.

I was watching the 1995 Oz Gp earlier and all it was was a race of attrition. It was whoever could drive around just quickly enough to keep up but slow enough that their car wouldn't break down would get the spoils. That was what F1 was like back then. It hasn't changed all that much now expect it's the tyres the driver has to preserve not the car itself.

I added your point about turbos to the 'mega-post' above. It's come up a few times but I forgot about it originally.

In relation to your other points, I can't say I completely agree with your assessment of 2005 and 1995 but, in any case, I refer back to my point about the skill of going fast whilst conserving (be it tyres, engines or whatever) versus the non-skill of simply lapping slowly.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:51 pm 
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f1driverwanabe wrote:
Horners wading into the debate now

stating it's all about the tires, descrbibing it as a "lottery" and claiming Williams have no idea whhy they won it.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... -in-new-f1

Horner would say that. Red Bull have only won one race this year and they don't like it.

He has a point about it being a lottery though, it's up to the teams to understand the tyres and make them work consistently for them though. Lotus seem to be getting there.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:53 pm 
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Balibari wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
f1driverwanabe wrote:

Yes thanks for confirming you understand what i say, whether it's right or wrong at least your trying to get my point.

Now, the question is:

FIA/Constructors or whoever asked Pirelli to build them a tyre.....did they asked for this narrow temperature window and did they think or know that a 3 minute cloud in the sky can cause jenson button or whoever to go from the hero of Australia to the looser of Barcelona?



The tyres are pretty much the same as last year. The super Soft being the same. The tyres were tested and indeed the "New" soft even raced. Last year there was no sign of this critical temperature window.

So has pirelli put the tyre window in? Or have the cars changed in the off season that works the tyres different and never thought to tell Pirrelli this after testing in Abu dhabi or the race in Brazil last year?


Yes, I would like to know exactly what the difference is in the tyres this time.

I think the compound may be the same but things like the contact patch have been changed.



Made the "tread" wider and softened the compounds. the super soft remains the same so no compound is any softer than what was run last year.

tyres haven't changed from the Abu test and the Soft compound is still teh same one that ran without fault in Brazil.

The construction has changed too, not just the compound. Can't claim to remember how but if anyone really wants to know I'm sure google will help.



The only constructional change I am aware of is the extra width of the "Tread" . This doesn't change any of the rest just a different mould. Side walls extra remain the same from everything I have read.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
f1driverwanabe wrote:
Horners wading into the debate now

stating it's all about the tires, descrbibing it as a "lottery" and claiming Williams have no idea whhy they won it.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... -in-new-f1

Horner would say that. Red Bull have only won one race this year and they don't like it.

He has a point about it being a lottery though, it's up to the teams to understand the tyres and make them work consistently for them though. Lotus seem to be getting there.


Come on, it's not only Horner, almost every day you have more and more drivers and team members coming forward and claiming pretty much the same thing

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Balibari wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
The tyres are pretty much the same as last year. The super Soft being the same. The tyres were tested and indeed the "New" soft even raced. Last year there was no sign of this critical temperature window.

So has pirelli put the tyre window in? Or have the cars changed in the off season that works the tyres different and never thought to tell Pirrelli this after testing in Abu dhabi or the race in Brazil last year?


Yes, I would like to know exactly what the difference is in the tyres this time.

I think the compound may be the same but things like the contact patch have been changed.



Made the "tread" wider and softened the compounds. the super soft remains the same so no compound is any softer than what was run last year.

tyres haven't changed from the Abu test and the Soft compound is still teh same one that ran without fault in Brazil.

The construction has changed too, not just the compound. Can't claim to remember how but if anyone really wants to know I'm sure google will help.


This should help:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/arti ... 012-tyres/


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