planetf1.com

So?

The reason no one could overtake yesterday was because the cars were all so close on pace. To overtake the car in front you need to be faster than it, the top six towards the end were pretty much equal on pace.

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1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Maybe there isn't a solution to these tyres in terms of the teams trying to work them out. Maybe the performance is random each week.

This was the worst case of drivers not being able to push.

I don't know if that is a fair assessment, since they were bunched up. Could be that Webber slowed them down, but no one wanted to risk overtaking that late in the race.

Too true. I am hoping that farce of a race will open a few eyes to the problem. There seem to be just enough people happy with things for the teams and drivers to keep, essentially, on message.

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Klaus Kinski: making me question my heroes since January 2013

He has...numerous times. I'm surprised he bothers to repost it. I would have lost patience weeks ago.

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Forza Fernando !

lmgtfy.com

It's all out there in public domain. Paul Hembry has talked about it even before the end of last season.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

If you followed F1 you would have heard all this last year

For a start though

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/01/25/p ... ours-2012/


http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/f1/tyre-range.html



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iipa5wu2iF8

No my name is not google. If you can't be arsed following these things as the happen and are being talked about It ain't my job to bring you up to speed 6 months later

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

I think the strategy's may have changed as much if not more than the tire. We supposedly have a weaker tire and yet teams are choosing to make fewer stops then they did in 2011. Maybe the tires are just as durable as the year before but the teams are trying to make them last longer?

If the tire is less durable then why have we seen fewer pitstops in every dry GP this year?

Can anyone explain how schumi lasted 36 laps on the supersofts. He was by far the longest driver to stay on supersofts in the first stint with competative times set throughout. With the exeption of the few Laps stuck behind Kimi.

And that quote relates to the compound not having changed, the shape of the tyre is different for all of them, even the supersoft. Some people don't want to think about it.

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Klaus Kinski: making me question my heroes since January 2013

Yes there is extra rubber at the edges making the tread wider.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

1. Perez set his fastest time on lap 49, after his drive through, when he had a big gap in front of him, a reasonably light car, and nothing to lose. He picked up his pace for about four laps, but then from lap 58 to the end was slower than the front runners.
The pace of the front runners was dictated by Webber, who was doing exactly what he was supposed to, which is drive within his limits and not make any silly mistakes - fastest laps are rarely set by the winning driver.

2. Renault/Lotus haven't been consistent since 05/06, and for all we know, this year could be a repeat performance of 2011, i.e. promising start to the season but then dropped down the order due to errors and not enough development/money. From 2007 onwards, even with Alonso and Kubica they couldn't find consistency, so why should this year be so different?

3. Free practice since the refuelling ban hasn't been a particularly good indicator of race performance, because we never know how much fuel they have in, or the specific details of their program. Qualifying isn't a great form guide either - not unless they start qualifying on full tanks.

4. Kubica @ Monaco
2010 - started 2nd, droped one place at the start and stayed there to finish 3rd - he didn't overtake anyone in the race.
2009 - started 17th, had a problem at the start which dropped him to the back, and eventually retired with brake problems - he didn't overtake anyone in the race.
2008 - (wet race) started 5th, made one place up at the start, finished 2nd but didn't make any on-track overtakes during the race.
2007 - started 8th, finished 5th, no on-track overtakes.

5. This year's GP was a perfectly normal race (for Monaco), and the outcome had very little, if anything, to do with tyres - it's just Monaco! Also, if you looked at the leader board after Spain, you'd realise that everything is so tight, none of the top drivers, not even Hamilton, dares take too many risks, because one or two DNF's might drop them out of contention - they've all got too much to lose.
After 5 races last year, Vettel's lead over Hamilton in 2nd was 41 points, whereas this year Perez was only 39 points off the lead (after 5), and he was in 10th! Out of the top 7 drivers, the only one prepared to take a risk in Monaco was Button, but then he was the only one out of the points, and look what happened.

Peter Windsor thinks we should stop whining about the tyres, we should in fact make them feel loved.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/81711.html

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-Ayrton Senna fan-

2013 follower of :

Fernando Alonso

And I completely agree. Remember 2 years ago Pirelli wasn't exactly chomping at the bit to get involved and it could well have been Kumho instead.

Also Pirelli I think has done more right than wrong, and much of the "problems" with the tyres aren't their fault in the first place. So they definitely don't deserve all the grief they're getting right now.

And of course yes yes, the tyres can be improved, a little more durable, not so heat limited blah blah blah... but let's all look at the big picture and be reasonable.

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Klaus Kinski: making me question my heroes since January 2013

It's an unfortunate reality of the situation. I have no problem with Pirelli as a company and I don't think they deserve grief, as I've said all along they're faced with a very difficult challenge. They worked hard to produce a component with specific characteristics. In the view of many people that component isn't up to scratch and needs to be improved. Their concept isn't quite right, that's all. Half the teams on the grid have a car concept that isn't quite right, doesn't mean they deserve mockery or grief, and this is no different. But none of that alters the fact it's ultimately up to Pirelli to improve their product. I think most of us who don't like the tyres simply want them to be better, I don't sense any desire to slate Pirelli as a company and I don't sense any doubt that they're capable of making them work. This situation has come about as a result of various factors and influences, it just happens that the solution lies with Pirelli.

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Klaus Kinski: making me question my heroes since January 2013

Teams will test a new experimental hard tire during Practice for the British Grand Prix:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/07/02/teams-test-hard-tyres-silverstone/

Basically Pirelli have gone for a Bridgestone-like tire, giving it more consistent wear and a wider operating window.

During the weekend, drivers will have their usual allocation of tires, plus one set of the aforementioned experimental hard tire. The new hard tire may or may not be introduced later this season.

Personally I think that this new tire should not be added this season, because if one team starts blowing the rest of the field away on the new tire (unlikely), then Pirelli will be accused of helping them win the championship. But, this is a good opportunity for Pirelli to test new tires with actual Formula 1 teams.

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Supporter of:

Fernando Alonso
Pastor Maldonado
Sergio Perez
Michael Schumacher
Lewis Hamilton

Bumpity bump bump.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

If you consider how things went during the recent testing, plus this article http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... -than-2013, it appears as if the new Pirelli softs will again scramble the frontline around in 2013.

I am still not convinced that it is good for F1. Yes it causes havoc with slow teams suddenly finding themselves in front which some spectators will enjoy, but are these spectators hard core petrol heads which the sport thrived on for most of its life?.

I forecast that tyres will rule the roost again for half of the season, causing drivers and teams to decide on a slower setup to ensure the tyres last, rather than a show of good speed and old school driving talent.

Even if the teams requested Pirelli to make these tyres, I still think it is wrong!

it will be much the same as last year, and i liked it !
there is still driver skill and engineers skill in being able to go fasted with these tyres

Yeah it's looking like Pirelli have tried to create the same conditions we had for the first half of last year. Very disappointed. At the halfway point of 2012 they were saying the opposite because they were getting so much grief from the teams. I guess the relative lack of attention the tyres got in the second half of the year woke them up to the marketing value of being the hot topic of discussion.

I was really hoping to see the focus shift back onto talent, whether that be how fast a driver can go or how well they can conserve their tyres. But it looks like another year of WWF-style driving to delta times.

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Klaus Kinski: making me question my heroes since January 2013

I used to hate the unpredictable monkey wrench that Pirelli tires were. But I've grown accustomed to them.

Now I just despise DRS.

I don't see an issues with the tyres. It's the same for everyone.

They are all complaining about the fact the tyres last for one lap and then degrade. Well that's what they do and they've been designed to do that but do it consistently. So the teams likely know what to expect on laps 2, 3, 4, etc...

Thing is, it's going to mean the driver might be more important than the car at times. Instead of who has the fastest car (which can be boring) it will instead be which driver can be quickest to identify how to get their tyres into peak condition for a lying lap without destroying them too early - and then following that the driver then needs to be able to drive as fast as possible without destroying the tyres any faster than anyone else.

Thing is, fans complain about the tyres being the show but instead I think it makes it more about the driver talent rather than car talent (although the car does have some input into what is possible).

Who wants to see a single fast team driving away with it and only stopping once for their mandatory pit-stop?

Not me...

and i think the tyre situation will be even worse (for the teams) than it was starting last year

The Barcelona tests were not a good indication of how the tyres will perform in Melbourne. The Circuit de Catalunya is known to be particularly hard on tyres and temperatures were about 10 degrees lower than what you'll get at the races. Cold temperatures and an abrasive track make Pirelli tyres look a lot worse than they really are.

I don't predict the 2013 season to start off as hectic as 2012 did. The teams were completely caught by surprise for '12 and they know what to expect going into this season. Teams failing to deliver because of their misunderstanding the tyres will be nobodies fault but their own.

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I also have one of these.

I also beleive that teams now have hired more tyre specific engineers to grasp the tyre situations quicker

I can't wait till 2014 where tyres+engines will be unknowns

I have no problem with the tyres that Pirelli make. What I do have an issue with is the 2 compound rule. I think it's stupid and ruins races. I think that the teams should be able to choose whichever compound they like, and run with them. Use the best tyre that suits the car.

Machine management has always been part of the F1. And that includes everything from engine to tyre to fuel.
There is so much hoopla around the tyres as that is the most visible thing to the spectator. Well that and engine when it blows up.
But it has always been part of F1. There was short period when reliability was non issue and tyres became non issue and we had processional races. I am glad that has changed.
There is no such thing as pure racing. This is not F1 on PS3 with tyre simulation set to off. This is real world. It is always racing within limitations of your machine and tyre is important part of that machine and it is thankfully same for everyone these days.
All the teams need is consistency which they got last year and most top teams managed to get grip on tyres over time.

I expect same thing from Pirelli. They can make whatever they want to make F1 more exciting, make them degrade faster if they want to. Just ensure consistency. i.e. one set of super soft should behave exactly same as other set of super soft and so on.
Other than that, bring on the tyre drama. I loved it last year.

My main question then is why they test in Barcelona. The teams have little testing time as it is, and 100% of the preseason testing is utterly useless to learn about the tyres. And because the tyres degrade that quickly, it's actually hurting the car testing plans too.

Rubbers have too much influence in F1 today.

You can develop and extra car, have some genuine smart parts and innovations, but all these will remain in the shadow of the tires and how they work.

You can also have some of the best drivers ever on the grid, hungry for battles and fight, but if the rubber does not allow it, they will be driving like some taxi drivers.

And all this power is in the hands of one single manufacturer that even doesn't have a clean record of fair play.

I strongly dislike this situation and current state of how the racing is done.

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The end is near

Hmmm, so clarify for me, who has more right to enjoy the sport and for what reasons? This should be good for a laugh.
Driver skill in maximizing the balance between speed and tyre preservation is as relevant as any other combination.

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Aprilia RSV Mille.

All of this and more! Well said that man. And even bringing it back to the tyre war BS. So macca are good on xy and z tracks. Ferrari are good on ab and c. So no in race battling. Its a race by race procession, with the run away leader changing based on whether brand x or brand y tyres are suited to the track.....F**k off.

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Aprilia RSV Mille.

I couldn't disagree more. Well I could but meh. The facts are as such: We are seeing lots of overtaking, we are seeing different winners in different cars, some of those winners have come from mid field teams. The basis of the tyre situation is drivers and engineers having to be extra special on the day to maximize the tyres life. A huge element of unpredictability. A new and exciting factor to the racing. An end to the processional BS racing of the past where you could only expect the top 1 or 2 team/s to win.

No way lad, you can keep your F1 of old, thank you very much. I'll stick with the improved article.

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Aprilia RSV Mille.

yeah totally with you on that one i used to hate that element of the tyre war situation !

The best drivers were still at the front, the big teams at top the of the standings. The winners were the fans for whom the racing was much more entertaining.

If you're telling me the start of 2013 is going to be like 2012, I say: bring it on!

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We want heroes, but there are few, mainly it's cars - Pedro De La Rosa

You call it "being extra special"... I see it as drivers that have to go against their gut instinct to go fast, instead driving carefully and nursing.

I like to see drivers go balls out. Out of all the races of last year, I probably preferred Austin the most. Yes, we had two runaway cars in the front, but we also had two supertalents going all out for an entire race. That was, for me, what F1 should be.

But I know there are other opinions

Agree with everything you say Lt.

I think after Bahrain when Schumacher mentioned that it feels like driving behind a safety car 80% of the time because they are driving so slow to preserve their tyres really highlighted the issues with Pirelli

I would like some tyres that go off but there is still the opportunity to push, this would also add a dynamic whereby drivers have to choose when to push on their tyres and when to preserve them, rather than just preserving them for the entire race

The idea of races being dominated by the vagaries of tyre degredation is nothing new. In fact it was the norm in the 1980s when we had multiple tyre manufacturers (Goodyear, Michelin and Pirelli) and wildly different compounds. Some drivers could make a set of Pirelli tyres last a whole race and not stop when other drivers on Goodyears had to stop three times (eg: Berger won from 4th on the grid in Mexico 1986). In fact at one race Minardi managed to qualify on the front row of the grid (US 1990). That'd be like Caterham qualifying on the front row today. The 80s and 90s are lauded as one of the most exciting and competitive periods of racing in F1 history and a lot of that was down to the tyres. I really does some very odd to me that people are criticial of what Pirelli have brought to the sport last year and potentially this year to mix up things. As a veteran F1 fan of some 32 years I applaud and welcome it.

Also in the 80's refuelling wasn't allowed. Drivers had to decide to either go flat out from the start and hope they didn't run out of fuel before the end of the race or conserve fuel at the start of the race so they can go flat out towards the end. Pretty much the same as the Pirelli tyres these days. Either go flat out from the start of your stint and hope your tyres last until you pit or conserve them so you can go flat you before you pit.

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1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

The people who are whining about these tyres are the same people that whined about the processions near the end of the Bridgestone era, as long as there isn't a tyre war you have no reason to complain, the compounds are same for everyone and they actually challenge the drivers and engineers to think and adapt strategically and their actual driving styles.

But, who am I kidding? F1 fans are never satisfied.

One day traction control is ruining F1 because it takes out driver skill, and the next day F1 is going backwards and becoming slower getting rid of technologies.

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Apparently religious people didn't like my signature, hah! Don't read it if you are so offended by it.

When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. - Robert Pirsig