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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Herb wrote:
Jamie Chadwick wins F3 race:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/45075665

I don't follow F3, so not sure on how big this is, but first F3 race won by a woman must count for something!

She seems genuinely competitive in British F3, so we'll see. It's not a very high level of motorsport, but everyone starts somewhere.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Herb wrote:
Jamie Chadwick wins F3 race:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/45075665

I don't follow F3, so not sure on how big this is, but first F3 race won by a woman must count for something!

She seems genuinely competitive in British F3, so we'll see. It's not a very high level of motorsport, but everyone starts somewhere.

Reverse grid race were instead of starting 12th she started 4th, anyway good luck to her.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:58 am 
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Big news:

https://wseries.com/introducing-w-series/


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:34 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:


I'm curious about their definition of "woman" and "female", and if a person who is biologically male but identifies as female can enter.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:54 am 
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I thought most women who are in motorsport wanted to compete against men not just other women so I'm not really sure how this helps them if I am honest, and the prize money seems a very small amount which won't go very far at all to furthering their motorsport career which is what the prize money is meant to be used for.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:05 am 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
I thought most women who are in motorsport wanted to compete against men not just other women so I'm not really sure how this helps them if I am honest, and the prize money seems a very small amount which won't go very far at all to furthering their motorsport career which is what the prize money is meant to be used for.


I can see its merits if it becomes a single championship. It's a great opportunity to get women into higher level racing. It's undeniable that while racing series aren't segregated, in a practical sense they are - the number of women in formula racing must be well below one percent. If this is an opportunity for talented women racers who don't have the funding to get into a formula car, do well and secure sponsorship before moving onto something else that'd be great to see. In this sense, at this very moment, I support it for what it stands for. I reserve my right to change my opinion should the series become not what I hope it will be.

I would oppose it if it was an entire multi-series championship alongside F3, F2, F1 etc. That would be terrible. As a standalone competition, one that might just give some talented women the chance to move onto a different competition after a season, I'm all for it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:02 am 
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I'm not sure what to think about it, but I hope it at least does one thing: make the sport more popular for young girls.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:31 am 
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My concern with women only championships are that it risks splitting women from men in racing when there's no real need to IMO.

So it's good that the series organisers see this as nothing more than a stepping stone onto other series but I think there's still a risk of teams in the other series not wanting to take on a female driver from the series because they can't judge their performance relative to drivers in the current established feeder series.

How much does it cost to run an F3/F4 team? Perhaps rather than the 1.5m prize fund they should use that money to set up one of those teams and the top 2 from the 'w' series become the driver lineup for a season.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:35 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Llotyhy wrote:


I'm curious about their definition of "woman" and "female", and if a person who is biologically male but identifies as female can enter.

:-|

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:49 am 
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Quote from David Coulthard:

“At the moment, however, women racing drivers tend to reach a ‘glass ceiling’ at around the GP3/Formula 3 level on their learning curve, often as a result of a lack of funding rather than a lack of talent.”

If the issue is mainly lack of funding and not gender, then instead of starting a championship which to me comes across as condescending and patronising to women and just plain gymicky, why not just identify talented young female drivers at the Karting level & sponsor them which will allow them to compete on equal terms against the men?

Oh and by the way, this is the story for a lot of male drivers too.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:00 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
If the issue is mainly lack of funding and not gender, then instead of starting a championship which to me comes across as condescending and patronising to women and just plain gymicky, why not just identify talented young female drivers at the Karting level & sponsor them which will allow them to compete on equal terms against the men?


If it's condescending and patronising then we shouldn't expect to see women who want to enter into it. The market will decide whether this claim is true, I expect.

Sponsoring drivers at a karting level might be a nice idea, but this competition will need to make money to survive. I imagine this model is more profitable than hand picking a few kids and hoping they make it to the top.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:21 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
If the issue is mainly lack of funding and not gender, then instead of starting a championship which to me comes across as condescending and patronising to women and just plain gymicky, why not just identify talented young female drivers at the Karting level & sponsor them which will allow them to compete on equal terms against the men?


If it's condescending and patronising then we shouldn't expect to see women who want to enter into it. The market will decide whether this claim is true, I expect.

Sponsoring drivers at a karting level might be a nice idea, but this competition will need to make money to survive. I imagine this model is more profitable than hand picking a few kids and hoping they make it to the top.


Well why bother with the competition in the first place? If they're serious about getting a female into F1, which I assume is the ultimate goal, surely the best way would be to identify talented young females at the karting level and give them all the support this championship purports to offer whilst allowing them to compete against the males in the same series. This would then allow team owners to assess the female drivers performances objectively against male drivers when considering who to employ to drive their cars.

Surely if the main aim is to get more females into the sport this has to be a better way to get a female into F1 than this series.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 am 
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The fact that no established female racers have come out in support of this category (along with Carmen Jorda - guessing FIA told her to stay out of it) tells me all that I need to know about this category.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:48 am 
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cm97 wrote:
The fact that no established female racers have come out in support of this category (along with Carmen Jorda - guessing FIA told her to stay out of it) tells me all that I need to know about this category.


Not yet anyway - the news is pretty new.

However, Suzie Wolff and Jamie Chadwick are both in support of it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/45802348

It's worth trying something different IMO, I don't see how it can hurt. As long as it is seen as a stepping stone, and not the final destination.


PS - I see no mention of the FIA on their website...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:03 am 
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I like DC a lot and I can see the thinking... but I'm surprised and disappointed this has gone ahead.

It's so contradictory. It's widely acknowledged that motorposrt is one of the rare opportunities for men and women to compete on even terms so to then go and create a female only series misses that point entirely.

Nearly all of the successful female racers make this point first and foremost - get me on the track, drop the flag and we're all equal. They want to prove themselves by beating good drivers, not good #female# drivers.

The argument for , is that it creates an "opportunity". The opportunity to go racing is the same for everyone, - the ony barrier for the vast majority is money.

This will fail - as it has before.

The Wolffs:
Toto:
"An all-women championship is giving up on the mission of eventually making girls compete on a high level and against the boys in Formula One, it is undermining what girls are able to achieve"

Susie
"Why would I ever look for a race where I was only competing against women? I can hand on heart say it would not interest me at all to win such a race. I would rather not be in the race because what am I winning? A race where they've just looked for any girl to make a grid up."

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:37 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:

Interesting concept, I guess the champion would then give something like F3 a go?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:57 am 
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Herb wrote:
However, Suzie Wolff and Jamie Chadwick are both in support of it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/45802348


Suzie not so much:

"My view on this, and I know that this is the shared position of the organisations I work with, is that we should continue to encourage and create opportunities for women to compete on the same level as men. We fundamentally believe that the best opportunity to identify top female talent is by facilitating a dynamic where more women can compete and rise to the top in a mixed competition on equal terms"

So I'm guessing because she's buddies with DC, a polite way of saying she doesn't actually agree.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:49 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Herb wrote:
However, Suzie Wolff and Jamie Chadwick are both in support of it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/45802348


Suzie not so much:

"My view on this, and I know that this is the shared position of the organisations I work with, is that we should continue to encourage and create opportunities for women to compete on the same level as men. We fundamentally believe that the best opportunity to identify top female talent is by facilitating a dynamic where more women can compete and rise to the top in a mixed competition on equal terms"

So I'm guessing because she's buddies with DC, a polite way of saying she doesn't actually agree.


Yeh, I went back and read the quote again after I posted. Guess I was expecting an outright dismissal, so read it in a more positive way!

I still think its worth a shot, if it fails we won't have lost anything. I would like to hear more from female racers though.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Herb wrote:
I would like to hear more from female racers though.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/45808413

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:31 pm 
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i'm waiting for ferrari to sponsor a series for "old guys who can't drive a race car worth a darn, but want to embarrass themselves anyway" i'm all in on that!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:13 pm 
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I'm not sure about this. Is there actually anything stopping women getting into F1? And if they are doing a women only racing series, then are some people going to get picky soon into it and suggest that some should strictly be a sport for only men too? As Formula 1 doesn't have any rules against women. I just don't see why they should separate it totally. If they make a women only racing series then to me it only makes sense to do the same for men. But I would rather neither of these happened and it just stayed as it is.

But then I can't disagree that this will likely get more women into racing.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:41 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
I like DC a lot and I can see the thinking... but I'm surprised and disappointed this has gone ahead.

It's so contradictory. It's widely acknowledged that motorposrt is one of the rare opportunities for men and women to compete on even terms so to then go and create a female only series misses that point entirely.

Nearly all of the successful female racers make this point first and foremost - get me on the track, drop the flag and we're all equal. They want to prove themselves by beating good drivers, not good #female# drivers.

The argument for , is that it creates an "opportunity". The opportunity to go racing is the same for everyone, - the ony barrier for the vast majority is money.

This will fail - as it has before.

The Wolffs:
Toto:
"An all-women championship is giving up on the mission of eventually making girls compete on a high level and against the boys in Formula One, it is undermining what girls are able to achieve"

Susie
"Why would I ever look for a race where I was only competing against women? I can hand on heart say it would not interest me at all to win such a race. I would rather not be in the race because what am I winning? A race where they've just looked for any girl to make a grid up."

I agree totally. There is no reason to segregate female racers like this and I think it is a backward step. Watching female racers compete with and beat the male racers, as they are quite capable of doing, is what is going to entice more women into motorsport and progress is gradually being made in this regard (see Ana Carrasco). It's always going to be a slow process and this series feels more like a half-baked attempt at a quick fix that is ultimately going to prove counter-productive.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:48 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
i'm waiting for ferrari to sponsor a series for "old guys who can't drive a race car worth a darn, but want to embarrass themselves anyway" i'm all in on that!

I’m fairly certain their current driver line up has achieved this objective.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:11 am 
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Doesn't Coulthard own a media production company?

While I dearly hope I'm wrong, the cynic in me tells me it looks more like a promo to a new reality TV series than a proper female motor racing competition.

We'll be able to follow each girl on their "journey" through the selection process to emerge as one of the chosen 20, then through the media, technical and fitness training sessions and then the the races until one emerges as the W Series victor where they then rapidly disappear into oblivion never to be heard from again.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:57 am 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
I thought most women who are in motorsport wanted to compete against men not just other women so I'm not really sure how this helps them if I am honest, and the prize money seems a very small amount which won't go very far at all to furthering their motorsport career which is what the prize money is meant to be used for.

They can.... this is what people are not thinking about.

Get more women interested in motorsport... which means funding.. support... and more importantly... young girls.

Problem is.. some young girls/women feel intimidated by the 'boys club'.. I know a woman that refused engineering for that very reason.

This isn't about being perfect. It is about moving forward and this is the right way. Get more women involved in the sport and see how they compete. Those at the top like any sport can be given chances at better formulas... like.. Formula 1.

This isn't about segregation like some have claimed on Twitter. This is about opportunity and interest. Getting more women in to a sport where the majority are men is never easy. It is why like most sports it is women V women and men V men.

This sport like football struggles to get more young girls interested. Getting more women involved in motorsport is the key. This allows sponsors, engineers and more importantly.. teams to see more women involved...

What people don't think about.. or like to admit.. is that generally this has been a mans sport.. what are the odds even in 2018? of men V women that enjoy go karting on a weekly basis? what is the odds of men V women in most motorsports? I Googled stats about a year ago and it was a small %. Embarrassing for 2018.

I have a daughter on the way and I will take her Go Karting but if she shows no interest in it.. because she sees mainly men in motor sports.. and most of her friends don't care for it.. what hope do I have to share the same interest. A women Formula is exactly what we need right now and a step in the right direction. This needs support, advertisement and frankly to be shown live on freeview TV.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:06 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
I thought most women who are in motorsport wanted to compete against men not just other women so I'm not really sure how this helps them if I am honest, and the prize money seems a very small amount which won't go very far at all to furthering their motorsport career which is what the prize money is meant to be used for.

They can.... this is what people are not thinking about.

Get more women interested in motorsport... which means funding.. support... and more importantly... young girls.

Problem is.. some young girls/women feel intimidated by the 'boys club'.. I know a woman that refused engineering for that very reason.

This isn't about being perfect. It is about moving forward and this is the right way. Get more women involved in the sport and see how they compete. Those at the top like any sport can be given chances at better formulas... like.. Formula 1.

This isn't about segregation like some have claimed on Twitter. This is about opportunity and interest. Getting more women in to a sport where the majority are men is never easy. It is why like most sports it is women V women and men V men.

This sport like football struggles to get more young girls interested. Getting more women involved in motorsport is the key. This allows sponsors, engineers and more importantly.. teams to see more women involved...

What people don't think about.. or like to admit.. is that generally this has been a mans sport.. what are the odds even in 2018? of men V women that enjoy go karting on a weekly basis? what is the odds of men V women in most motorsports? I Googled stats about a year ago and it was a small %. Embarrassing for 2018.

I have a daughter on the way and I will take her Go Karting but if she shows no interest in it.. because she sees mainly men in motor sports.. and most of her friends don't care for it.. what hope do I have to share the same interest. A women Formula is exactly what we need right now and a step in the right direction. This needs support, advertisement and frankly to be shown live on freeview TV.


Nothing is embarrassing. Embarrassing would be if women were excluded from motorsport when they clearly are not. Just because the numbers taking part are massively disproportionate, that doesn’t mean women are being discriminated again.

Some people just won’t admit that the reason for all of this is that the majority of young girls are just not interested motor sports. If I had gone up to 99% of the teenage girls in my year, when I was at school, and started talking about differentials, 2 stroke and lift off oversteer they would have stared blankly into space. You can’t compensate for the fact that most teenage girls would prefer to watch Love Island than F1.

Nobody will watch it, even if it’s on freeview. BTCC already gets a Luke-warm TV audience on its Sunday afternoon slot on ITV4. W-Series will be of a much lower standard and the idea that women will watch just because it’s other women is silly and patronising. If you dont believe me, ask any of the women you know to name 5 footballers in the England women’s team.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:08 am 
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Had this conversation so many times but the only way to really address this at right down at grass roots level. If there's money available spend it on encouraging kart tracks to have more women only sessions in order to get girls on-track. The only barriers are mental and cost. So subsidise the sessions, make them staff by women if it helps, help promote them etc. This is just to introduce them to the sport - get a feel for it, get a taste for it in a "safe" environment. But IF that introduction generates genuine interest they need to enter competitive events with both sexes racing from day one - anything else would be creating a false impression. They need to know what it's like, what they're up against, how to learn from others and improve etc. They won't get that against a field that is not representative of the sport once you start to progress.

It's no different to a kid thrashing their mates at their birthday party then entering an open race meet and finding themselves getting battered. At that point you either think it's not for you, you enjoy but accept you have a limit, or you knuckle down and accept the challenges facing any athlete does in terms of time, training, sponsorship. commitment and compromise.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:20 am 
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For those of you unaware, this HAS been attempted before and it was pitiful - Google "Formula Woman". or if you're lazy

http://speedqueens.blogspot.com/2010/09 ... woman.html

Basically the same - anyone can apply> selection process >ability assessment etc My guess is that the new series will go the same way.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:35 pm 
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cm97 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i'm waiting for ferrari to sponsor a series for "old guys who can't drive a race car worth a darn, but want to embarrass themselves anyway" i'm all in on that!

I’m fairly certain their current driver line up has achieved this objective.


lol but i'm talking about guys way older than even kr


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:35 pm 
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F****** **** drivers.




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:43 pm 
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^ that's funny


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:37 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
F****** **** drivers.



Toto grinning like a Cheshire cat whilst Suzie was wetting herself. :lol:

Arnie might have "I'll be back", but Toto has "Now for pay back". :lol:

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