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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:03 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Pipa Mann out-qualified Fernando in the Day 1 trials at Indy. :lol:

It seems both Alonso and McLaren seriously underestimated the task at hand, they may be spec cars but it's obviously a bit more complicated than that?

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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:06 am 
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Looking at the W series Visser was backed by Red Bull but got dropped because she wasn't good enough, if she's up there at the front then basically at present we are not seeing any diamonds in the field.

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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 7:02 pm 
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Jamie Chadwick joins William's in development role:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48333331

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:34 pm 
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Another win for Chadwick keeps her top of the standings with 3 of the 6 rounds remaining.

Jamie Chadwick: 68
Beitske Visser: 55
Marta Garcia: 35

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:58 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Another win for Chadwick keeps her top of the standings with 3 of the 6 rounds remaining.

Jamie Chadwick: 68
Beitske Visser: 55
Marta Garcia: 35

It's a nice concept but Visser was in the Red Bull program and was simply not good enough so by association none of these women are good enough for F1 presently.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:42 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Looking at the W series Visser was backed by Red Bull but got dropped because she wasn't good enough, if she's up there at the front then basically at present we are not seeing any diamonds in the field.


pokerman wrote:
It's a nice concept but Visser was in the Red Bull program and was simply not good enough so by association none of these women are good enough for F1 presently.


I wouldn't argue that , but it may be missing the point. Firstly I don't think anyone was suggesting any of the W Series drivers are currently good enough for F1
Secondly, having someone like Visser on the grid is a useful benchmark for those who are relatively unknown quantities.

And as I've said before this I think is W Series main problem - it's not clear exactly what it's purpose is. After the first 3 races it seems to me there a couple of drivers that have shown they have potential to compete at a higher level than maybe they otherwise would have been able to, namely Garcia and Koyama. Equally some of those (and I won't name them) have in all honestly been shown that the reality is they didn't progress because they really weren't good enough. Just as the series might allow some to show their potential, it also means dealing with the harsh reality 99% of drivers do i.e that you may be good, but when you go beyond national level you've got to be a lot better than just good.

Have to say, it's won me over a bit. The cars are fast and look good, there's been some tasty racing on decent circuits, coverage is good, and they've made an effort to think about some small details like having the driver names more visible on the cars, re-allocating the cars/race engineers etc.

What it leads to I don't know, we'll have to see, but personally I like it and am enjoying my slice of humble pie.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:29 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Looking at the W series Visser was backed by Red Bull but got dropped because she wasn't good enough, if she's up there at the front then basically at present we are not seeing any diamonds in the field.


pokerman wrote:
It's a nice concept but Visser was in the Red Bull program and was simply not good enough so by association none of these women are good enough for F1 presently.


I wouldn't argue that , but it may be missing the point. Firstly I don't think anyone was suggesting any of the W Series drivers are currently good enough for F1
Secondly, having someone like Visser on the grid is a useful benchmark for those who are relatively unknown quantities.

And as I've said before this I think is W Series main problem - it's not clear exactly what it's purpose is. After the first 3 races it seems to me there a couple of drivers that have shown they have potential to compete at a higher level than maybe they otherwise would have been able to, namely Garcia and Koyama. Equally some of those (and I won't name them) have in all honestly been shown that the reality is they didn't progress because they really weren't good enough. Just as the series might allow some to show their potential, it also means dealing with the harsh reality 99% of drivers do i.e that you may be good, but when you go beyond national level you've got to be a lot better than just good.

Have to say, it's won me over a bit. The cars are fast and look good, there's been some tasty racing on decent circuits, coverage is good, and they've made an effort to think about some small details like having the driver names more visible on the cars, re-allocating the cars/race engineers etc.

What it leads to I don't know, we'll have to see, but personally I like it and am enjoying my slice of humble pie.

I think it's purpose is to find a F1 driver and it is a good platform for trying to do that, the more women you can cycle through the system then the better chance of achieving that goal.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:37 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I think it's purpose is to find a F1 driver and it is a good platform for trying to do that, the more women you can cycle through the system then the better chance of achieving that goal.

I'd say finding an F1 driver is only about half of its purpose. The other half is to highlight to more young girls than high level motorsport is an achievable ambition for them, hopefully getting more interested at a younger age.

In terms of the actual drivers, Garcia is the main one who seems promising to me. Chadwick is the best right now, but Garcia is a good deal less experienced and younger.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's purpose is to find a F1 driver and it is a good platform for trying to do that, the more women you can cycle through the system then the better chance of achieving that goal.

I'd say finding an F1 driver is only about half of its purpose. The other half is to highlight to more young girls than high level motorsport is an achievable ambition for them, hopefully getting more interested at a younger age.

In terms of the actual drivers, Garcia is the main one who seems promising to me. Chadwick is the best right now, but Garcia is a good deal less experienced and younger.

Well the more girls that get interested then the better chance you have of finding someone of F1 quality.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:53 am 
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Im a father of three girls and I will be the first person to admit the only way a female will be competative in F1 is if a guy transitions...lets get real.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:43 am 
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Ruste13 wrote:
Im a father of three girls and I will be the first person to admit the only way a female will be competative in F1 is if a guy transitions...lets get real.

Well I would say the odds don't look good.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Ruste13 wrote:
Im a father of three girls and I will be the first person to admit the only way a female will be competitive in F1 is if a guy transitions...lets get real.



Well we have the opposite direction, Google "Charlie Christina Martin"

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:14 pm 
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The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:46 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.

I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:51 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.

I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.

I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

There in itself though is part of the problem, there are no financial restrictions around darts or snooker really but no desire.

However that's different when you look at sports like Athletics and Tennis but that's segregated, women can only be successful when they don't have to compete against men?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:05 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.

I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

There in itself though is part of the problem, there are no financial restrictions around darts or snooker really but no desire.

However that's different when you look at sports like Athletics and Tennis but that's segregated, women can only be successful when they don't have to compete against men?


You'd probably find there are far fewer girls trying to be tennis players or track and field athletes as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:13 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.

I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

There in itself though is part of the problem, there are no financial restrictions around darts or snooker really but no desire.

However that's different when you look at sports like Athletics and Tennis but that's segregated, women can only be successful when they don't have to compete against men?


You'd probably find there are far fewer girls trying to be tennis players or track and field athletes as well.

In comparison to men but many more then are looking to get into the likes of motorsport, darts and snooker.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:37 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.

I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

I think there is a lot of validity to your post here. For sports where you primarily use your own body to compete; I believe it generally makes sense to separate men from women (due to different levels of performance). It's not always that the men are "better" either. Men are generally bigger, stronger and faster. Women generally are more graceful, have better balance and more flexibility. So men will be superior in sports like football, basketball, fighting, etc. Most people would prefer to watch the women, however, in sports like gymnastics, figure skating, etc.

With regards to sports like motor racing and horse racing; the human body is not the primary instrument used to compete. We have seen women succeed in both of those sports against men and at some of the highest professional levels. Considering the MUCH lower representation at the youth level for women; it's not unreasonable to suggest that higher participation would yield larger numbers of pros. Certainly Danica Patrick was every bit as quick as her male competitors for the most part and in some pretty high level series as well. Over a single lap she could match anyone in NASCAR or Indycar so the idea that it's not physically possible for some reason, doesn't hold much water. And Danica isn't even the greatest female racing driver of all time. Michèle Mouton was arguably the best rally driver in the world at one point in the early 80s (male or female).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

There in itself though is part of the problem, there are no financial restrictions around darts or snooker really but no desire.

However that's different when you look at sports like Athletics and Tennis but that's segregated, women can only be successful when they don't have to compete against men?


You'd probably find there are far fewer girls trying to be tennis players or track and field athletes as well.

In comparison to men but many more then are looking to get into the likes of motorsport, darts and snooker.


Well sure but the Tennis and Athletics are way more globally popular than darts or snooker and far easier to actually get into than F1.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:53 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

There in itself though is part of the problem, there are no financial restrictions around darts or snooker really but no desire.

However that's different when you look at sports like Athletics and Tennis but that's segregated, women can only be successful when they don't have to compete against men?


You'd probably find there are far fewer girls trying to be tennis players or track and field athletes as well.

In comparison to men but many more then are looking to get into the likes of motorsport, darts and snooker.


Well sure but the Tennis and Athletics are way more globally popular than darts or snooker and far easier to actually get into than F1.

So basically then they are never going to get the numbers?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:59 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.

I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

I think there is a lot of validity to your post here. For sports where you primarily use your own body to compete; I believe it generally makes sense to separate men from women (due to different levels of performance). It's not always that the men are "better" either. Men are generally bigger, stronger and faster. Women generally are more graceful, have better balance and more flexibility. So men will be superior in sports like football, basketball, fighting, etc. Most people would prefer to watch the women, however, in sports like gymnastics, figure skating, etc.

With regards to sports like motor racing and horse racing; the human body is not the primary instrument used to compete. We have seen women succeed in both of those sports against men and at some of the highest professional levels. Considering the MUCH lower representation at the youth level for women; it's not unreasonable to suggest that higher participation would yield larger numbers of pros. Certainly Danica Patrick was every bit as quick as her male competitors for the most part and in some pretty high level series as well. Over a single lap she could match anyone in NASCAR or Indycar so the idea that it's not physically possible for some reason, doesn't hold much water. And Danica isn't even the greatest female racing driver of all time. Michèle Mouton was arguably the best rally driver in the world at one point in the early 80s (male or female).

Danica Patrick did alright on ovals but was nowhere on road courses the kind of tracks closer to what F1 races on, also I thought she washed out a bit in NASCAR?

Michele Mouton would be the one standout female for me so maybe there's some hope?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:44 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
There in itself though is part of the problem, there are no financial restrictions around darts or snooker really but no desire.

However that's different when you look at sports like Athletics and Tennis but that's segregated, women can only be successful when they don't have to compete against men?


You'd probably find there are far fewer girls trying to be tennis players or track and field athletes as well.

In comparison to men but many more then are looking to get into the likes of motorsport, darts and snooker.


Well sure but the Tennis and Athletics are way more globally popular than darts or snooker and far easier to actually get into than F1.

So basically then they are never going to get the numbers?


Perhaps not. And if not I don't really see it as a problem. They might just get lucky though. Stevenage don't have the numbers either but one came through. You only need one with enough talent.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:05 am 
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pokerman wrote:
I think it's purpose is to find a F1 driver and it is a good platform for trying to do that, the more women you can cycle through the system then the better chance of achieving that goal.


I just watched a women's football world cup match. Does it follow that the only purpose of that competition is to find world cup players?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:21 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
You'd probably find there are far fewer girls trying to be tennis players or track and field athletes as well.

In comparison to men but many more then are looking to get into the likes of motorsport, darts and snooker.


Well sure but the Tennis and Athletics are way more globally popular than darts or snooker and far easier to actually get into than F1.

So basically then they are never going to get the numbers?


Perhaps not. And if not I don't really see it as a problem. They might just get lucky though. Stevenage don't have the numbers either but one came through. You only need one with enough talent.

I think you are comparing apples with oranges there, the male population of the world don't all live in Stevenage.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:12 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
In comparison to men but many more then are looking to get into the likes of motorsport, darts and snooker.


Well sure but the Tennis and Athletics are way more globally popular than darts or snooker and far easier to actually get into than F1.

So basically then they are never going to get the numbers?


Perhaps not. And if not I don't really see it as a problem. They might just get lucky though. Stevenage don't have the numbers either but one came through. You only need one with enough talent.

I think you are comparing apples with oranges there, the male population of the world don't all live in Stevenage.


You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
The only thing stopping us from having a female F1 driver is the lack of teenage girls who want to go karting every weekend. Physically I see no reason why it should not be possible.

I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

I think there is a lot of validity to your post here. For sports where you primarily use your own body to compete; I believe it generally makes sense to separate men from women (due to different levels of performance). It's not always that the men are "better" either. Men are generally bigger, stronger and faster. Women generally are more graceful, have better balance and more flexibility. So men will be superior in sports like football, basketball, fighting, etc. Most people would prefer to watch the women, however, in sports like gymnastics, figure skating, etc.

With regards to sports like motor racing and horse racing; the human body is not the primary instrument used to compete. We have seen women succeed in both of those sports against men and at some of the highest professional levels. Considering the MUCH lower representation at the youth level for women; it's not unreasonable to suggest that higher participation would yield larger numbers of pros. Certainly Danica Patrick was every bit as quick as her male competitors for the most part and in some pretty high level series as well. Over a single lap she could match anyone in NASCAR or Indycar so the idea that it's not physically possible for some reason, doesn't hold much water. And Danica isn't even the greatest female racing driver of all time. Michèle Mouton was arguably the best rally driver in the world at one point in the early 80s (male or female).

Danica Patrick did alright on ovals but was nowhere on road courses the kind of tracks closer to what F1 races on, also I thought she washed out a bit in NASCAR?

Michele Mouton would be the one standout female for me so maybe there's some hope?


Yes, but that hope comes from 30+ years back. I wish we had more recent examples


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:14 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:

You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.


[SteveW goes off on a tangent]

What are the odds of one small village/town on the borders of Scotland/England being home to both a male AND female motorsport world champion?

Duns - Louise Aitken-Walker and Jim Clark :)

[/SteveW goes off on a tangent]


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:22 pm 
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SteveW wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.


[SteveW goes off on a tangent]

What are the odds of one small village/town on the borders of Scotland/England being home to both a male AND female motorsport world champion?

Duns - Louise Aitken-Walker and Jim Clark :)

[/SteveW goes off on a tangent]

Not the same though, Clark wasn't born there. It's like saying most WDC's are from Monaco, but only because they moved there


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:14 pm 
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iano wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's purpose is to find a F1 driver and it is a good platform for trying to do that, the more women you can cycle through the system then the better chance of achieving that goal.


I just watched a women's football world cup match. Does it follow that the only purpose of that competition is to find world cup players?

Well I thought that was the goal of the W series based on the belief that women aren't limited physically as opposed to some other sports like football?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:19 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Well sure but the Tennis and Athletics are way more globally popular than darts or snooker and far easier to actually get into than F1.

So basically then they are never going to get the numbers?


Perhaps not. And if not I don't really see it as a problem. They might just get lucky though. Stevenage don't have the numbers either but one came through. You only need one with enough talent.

I think you are comparing apples with oranges there, the male population of the world don't all live in Stevenage.


You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

You might be able to make the same statement about most drivers presently in F1, surely Hamilton is just one of many male drivers that try to make it into F1 and is not a single entity when we are making comparison with women drivers.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:21 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So basically then they are never going to get the numbers?


Perhaps not. And if not I don't really see it as a problem. They might just get lucky though. Stevenage don't have the numbers either but one came through. You only need one with enough talent.

I think you are comparing apples with oranges there, the male population of the world don't all live in Stevenage.


You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

You might be able to make the same statement about most drivers presently in F1, surely Hamilton is just one of many male drivers that try to make it into F1 and is not a single entity when we are making comparison with women drivers.


Yes you could and that is exactly the point.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:21 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure if it's a numbers game or just pure genetics?


Well we can't really know for sure unless we ever get the numbers. IMO it's down to numbers. Same reason we don't have loads of female pro Snooker or Darts players.

I think there is a lot of validity to your post here. For sports where you primarily use your own body to compete; I believe it generally makes sense to separate men from women (due to different levels of performance). It's not always that the men are "better" either. Men are generally bigger, stronger and faster. Women generally are more graceful, have better balance and more flexibility. So men will be superior in sports like football, basketball, fighting, etc. Most people would prefer to watch the women, however, in sports like gymnastics, figure skating, etc.

With regards to sports like motor racing and horse racing; the human body is not the primary instrument used to compete. We have seen women succeed in both of those sports against men and at some of the highest professional levels. Considering the MUCH lower representation at the youth level for women; it's not unreasonable to suggest that higher participation would yield larger numbers of pros. Certainly Danica Patrick was every bit as quick as her male competitors for the most part and in some pretty high level series as well. Over a single lap she could match anyone in NASCAR or Indycar so the idea that it's not physically possible for some reason, doesn't hold much water. And Danica isn't even the greatest female racing driver of all time. Michèle Mouton was arguably the best rally driver in the world at one point in the early 80s (male or female).

Danica Patrick did alright on ovals but was nowhere on road courses the kind of tracks closer to what F1 races on, also I thought she washed out a bit in NASCAR?

Michele Mouton would be the one standout female for me so maybe there's some hope?


Yes, but that hope comes from 30+ years back. I wish we had more recent examples

That's probably indicative of the kind of strike rate we are looking at?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:24 pm 
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Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire UK
Siao7 wrote:
SteveW wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.


[SteveW goes off on a tangent]

What are the odds of one small village/town on the borders of Scotland/England being home to both a male AND female motorsport world champion?

Duns - Louise Aitken-Walker and Jim Clark :)

[/SteveW goes off on a tangent]

Not the same though, Clark wasn't born there. It's like saying most WDC's are from Monaco, but only because they moved there
He grew up there though didn't he......? :lol:

Yeah, tenuous I know.... :blush:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:38 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Perhaps not. And if not I don't really see it as a problem. They might just get lucky though. Stevenage don't have the numbers either but one came through. You only need one with enough talent.

I think you are comparing apples with oranges there, the male population of the world don't all live in Stevenage.


You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

You might be able to make the same statement about most drivers presently in F1, surely Hamilton is just one of many male drivers that try to make it into F1 and is not a single entity when we are making comparison with women drivers.


Yes you could and that is exactly the point.

I'm getting confused with the logic, just because Hamilton is the only driver that made it from Stevenage doesn't increase the odds of a woman making it to F1.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7324
SteveW wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
SteveW wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.


[SteveW goes off on a tangent]

What are the odds of one small village/town on the borders of Scotland/England being home to both a male AND female motorsport world champion?

Duns - Louise Aitken-Walker and Jim Clark :)

[/SteveW goes off on a tangent]

Not the same though, Clark wasn't born there. It's like saying most WDC's are from Monaco, but only because they moved there
He grew up there though didn't he......? :lol:

Yeah, tenuous I know.... :blush:

Yeah, you are right I guess. I thought Clark moved there when he was older, but reading quickly on the source of all sources, they moved there when he was 6 or so.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:14 am
Posts: 166
Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire UK
Siao7 wrote:
SteveW wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
SteveW wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.


[SteveW goes off on a tangent]

What are the odds of one small village/town on the borders of Scotland/England being home to both a male AND female motorsport world champion?

Duns - Louise Aitken-Walker and Jim Clark :)

[/SteveW goes off on a tangent]

Not the same though, Clark wasn't born there. It's like saying most WDC's are from Monaco, but only because they moved there
He grew up there though didn't he......? :lol:

Yeah, tenuous I know.... :blush:

Yeah, you are right I guess. I thought Clark moved there when he was older, but reading quickly on the source of all sources, they moved there when he was 6 or so.
I look after the IT systems for a Salmon factory in Duns (i'm based down in Wiltshire at our head office but do have to visit sometimes), but every time I've been I've never had time to get to the Jim Clark museum they have in Duns. I'll get there one day! :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Posts: 7324
SteveW wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
SteveW wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
SteveW wrote:

[SteveW goes off on a tangent]

What are the odds of one small village/town on the borders of Scotland/England being home to both a male AND female motorsport world champion?

Duns - Louise Aitken-Walker and Jim Clark :)

[/SteveW goes off on a tangent]

Not the same though, Clark wasn't born there. It's like saying most WDC's are from Monaco, but only because they moved there
He grew up there though didn't he......? :lol:

Yeah, tenuous I know.... :blush:

Yeah, you are right I guess. I thought Clark moved there when he was older, but reading quickly on the source of all sources, they moved there when he was 6 or so.
I look after the IT systems for a Salmon factory in Duns (i'm based down in Wiltshire at our head office but do have to visit sometimes), but every time I've been I've never had time to get to the Jim Clark museum they have in Duns. I'll get there one day! :)

Sacrilege! You should have done this by now. I altered my cycling touring trip through Italy to go visit Imola a few years ago, couldn't be so close and not go there!

Going way off topic now


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:18 pm 
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Posts: 6318
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You might be able to make the same statement about most drivers presently in F1, surely Hamilton is just one of many male drivers that try to make it into F1 and is not a single entity when we are making comparison with women drivers.


Yes you could and that is exactly the point.

I'm getting confused with the logic, just because Hamilton is the only driver that made it from Stevenage doesn't increase the odds of a woman making it to F1.

I think the broader point he's making is that, for example, if you were to suggest that black drivers cannot compete on the same level simply because you don't see many black drivers in F1; you would be mixing correlation and causation. Essentially you don't see many black kids in karting and that is the root cause; not some innate difference between them and the other kids.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:42 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think you are comparing apples with oranges there, the male population of the world don't all live in Stevenage.


You've totally missed the point.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver from Stevenage because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make it comes from Stevenage.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

Odds would say you won't get a top level racing driver who is female because only a tiny % of everyone trying to make is female.

But you only need to produce one with enough talent who try's karting and they might make it.

You might be able to make the same statement about most drivers presently in F1, surely Hamilton is just one of many male drivers that try to make it into F1 and is not a single entity when we are making comparison with women drivers.


Yes you could and that is exactly the point.

I'm getting confused with the logic, just because Hamilton is the only driver that made it from Stevenage doesn't increase the odds of a woman making it to F1.


No you really don't get it.

I am saying that it is very unlikely that a women will make it to F1 because a very low % of those trying a women.

However you only need to find one extra special women and she can do it. But the odds of that are low.

Just like Stevenage. A very small % of those trying to make F1 come from Stevenage.


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