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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:37 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ruste13 wrote:
So if Chadwich is the best open wheel female racer aroubd where would she be finishing if she was in the Merc this year? Front or back of the feild?

She would probably be in full qualifying mode to get into Q2.

That would imply she's about 3 seconds slower than Lewis or Valtteri. I don't really believe that. Realistically, I think she'd be in the 1-1.5 seconds slower range. Calderon only averages about 1.5 seconds off the pace in F2, and while the leaders in F2 aren't as quick as the Merc drivers, I'm pretty confident Chadwick is better than Calderon.

No I was basing it on 1.5 seconds, at that she couldn't afford to run on the lower power modes that Hamilton and Bottas do in Q3, also let's not forget the tracks tend to ramp up a bit in speed when you get to Q3 if you're looking at that as being an ultimate time in Q1 which may not be the case?

Regarding Calderon in F2 I checked that because I'm sure her gap was bigger than 1.5 seconds, you found her most competitive qualifying, she averages more like 3 seconds slower, with Chadwick I did think that 1.5 seconds might be generous?


Why is Calderon the benchmark? Because she is also a woman? Does that make sense if they never raced in the same series? If you were to determine where, say, F3 driver Armstrong would compete in F1, would you refer to some male F2 backmarker ( like this Raghunathan guy, or Boschung) as a reference point ? Just wondering ...

Notwithstanding, I think Chadwick (with full pre-season preparation) could beat a 2019-Kubica as teammate - but no one else from the current grid.



Calderon and Chadwick have both done F3 and F2000 in some shape or form and Chadwick has the better record in both. You can extrapolate from there but it's tenuous. My gut feeling is that Chadwick is better - or at least has more potential, but how good I've no idea. And that's the point a win in W Series is great, but what next...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:32 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ruste13 wrote:
So if Chadwich is the best open wheel female racer aroubd where would she be finishing if she was in the Merc this year? Front or back of the feild?

She would probably be in full qualifying mode to get into Q2.

That would imply she's about 3 seconds slower than Lewis or Valtteri. I don't really believe that. Realistically, I think she'd be in the 1-1.5 seconds slower range. Calderon only averages about 1.5 seconds off the pace in F2, and while the leaders in F2 aren't as quick as the Merc drivers, I'm pretty confident Chadwick is better than Calderon.

No I was basing it on 1.5 seconds, at that she couldn't afford to run on the lower power modes that Hamilton and Bottas do in Q3, also let's not forget the tracks tend to ramp up a bit in speed when you get to Q3 if you're looking at that as being an ultimate time in Q1 which may not be the case?

Regarding Calderon in F2 I checked that because I'm sure her gap was bigger than 1.5 seconds, you found her most competitive qualifying, she averages more like 3 seconds slower, with Chadwick I did think that 1.5 seconds might be generous?


Why is Calderon the benchmark? Because she is also a woman? Does that make sense if they never raced in the same series? If you were to determine where, say, F3 driver Armstrong would compete in F1, would you refer to some male F2 backmarker ( like this Raghunathan guy, or Boschung) as a reference point ? Just wondering ...

Notwithstanding, I think Chadwick ( with full pre-season preparation) could beat a 2019-Kubica as teammate - but no one else from the current grid.

I would say Calderon is atypical of what we tend to see, which woman has done better in a top feeder series like F3, GP3 or F2?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:16 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
She would probably be in full qualifying mode to get into Q2.

That would imply she's about 3 seconds slower than Lewis or Valtteri. I don't really believe that. Realistically, I think she'd be in the 1-1.5 seconds slower range. Calderon only averages about 1.5 seconds off the pace in F2, and while the leaders in F2 aren't as quick as the Merc drivers, I'm pretty confident Chadwick is better than Calderon.

No I was basing it on 1.5 seconds, at that she couldn't afford to run on the lower power modes that Hamilton and Bottas do in Q3, also let's not forget the tracks tend to ramp up a bit in speed when you get to Q3 if you're looking at that as being an ultimate time in Q1 which may not be the case?

Regarding Calderon in F2 I checked that because I'm sure her gap was bigger than 1.5 seconds, you found her most competitive qualifying, she averages more like 3 seconds slower, with Chadwick I did think that 1.5 seconds might be generous?


Why is Calderon the benchmark? Because she is also a woman? Does that make sense if they never raced in the same series? If you were to determine where, say, F3 driver Armstrong would compete in F1, would you refer to some male F2 backmarker ( like this Raghunathan guy, or Boschung) as a reference point ? Just wondering ...

Notwithstanding, I think Chadwick (with full pre-season preparation) could beat a 2019-Kubica as teammate - but no one else from the current grid.



Calderon and Chadwick have both done F3 and F2000 in some shape or form and Chadwick has the better record in both. You can extrapolate from there but it's tenuous. My gut feeling is that Chadwick is better - or at least has more potential, but how good I've no idea. And that's the point a win in W Series is great, but what next...

F3 I see no proof of that the only name I recognise is Billy Monger whereas Calderon raced against Jordan King, Antonio Giovinazzi, Nicholas Latifi and she actually finished in front of Sean Geleal, she finished 7th in the series against the 8th and 9th of Chadwick, granted there was far more drivers that Chadwick raced against but seriously lacking in quality.

Chadwick won an Asian series the beginning of this year beating Max Defourny I name I recognised he was a front runner in FRenault 2.0 but did nothing after that, after defeat to Chadwick it seems his career is now over?

Calderon raced in the same series a few years before finished second but she took some scalps like Harrison Newey and Max Fewtrell who presently is running 7th in F3 and has won some minor titles like F4 and Renault 2.0.

I don't see proof of Chadwick being better than Calderon.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:16 am 
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pokerman wrote:
I don't see proof of Chadwick being better than Calderon.


I didn't offer proof or suggest there was any - just said "my gut feeling".

Calderon has been racing twice as long as Chadwick and when you compare results Chadwick has already achieved more. Calderons P2 in F2000 is an anomaly in her career tbh. The fact that she was P2 and her teammate was champ suggests a possible team/car advantage but I don't follow it well enough to know if that's true or even possible. Outside of that she has virtually nothing of notes, whereas Chadwick has 3 championship and wins in 3 series.

Calderon could be better, I don't know and its unlikely they will compete head to head now.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:21 pm 
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Sadly, many here seem to assume that Chadwick drove as fast as she could all the time which reflects on them not her.

There's no doubt in my mind that she drove only as fast as she needed to to win a championship and $0.5m, how refreshing that she knows this key skill at her level of experience, some F1 drivers never get there even after winning WDCs.

Her pole lap at Brands Hatch was indicative, 0.45s faster than 2nd place and 0.85s faster than third, I am certain she could have been faster in the race if that pot of gold had required her to be.

Good luck to her next season, I hope she gets a top team and can show her competitiveness in whatever series she races.

Meanwhile, we need to wait a couple of years at least until JuJu Noda is allowed to race at senior level.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:34 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
Sadly, many here seem to assume that Chadwick drove as fast as she could all the time which reflects on them not her.

There's no doubt in my mind that she drove only as fast as she needed to to win a championship and $0.5m, how refreshing that she knows this key skill at her level of experience, some F1 drivers never get there even after winning WDCs.

Her pole lap at Brands Hatch was indicative, 0.45s faster than 2nd place and 0.85s faster than third, I am certain she could have been faster in the race if that pot of gold had required her to be.

Good luck to her next season, I hope she gets a top team and can show her competitiveness in whatever series she races.

Meanwhile, we need to wait a couple of years at least until JuJu Noda is allowed to race at senior level.

You don't drive as fast that allows cars to pass you, it wasn't convincing at all by Chadwick, she got a great start to the season by virtue of racing similar cars just before the season started and then the other drivers started catching up to her to the point were she wasn't winning races.

If they started the season again tomorrow I think she would have big problems winning the series.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:45 pm 
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I think Kimiläinen would have been a serious title challenger without the injury.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
Sadly, many here seem to assume that Chadwick drove as fast as she could all the time which reflects on them not her.

There's no doubt in my mind that she drove only as fast as she needed to to win a championship and $0.5m, how refreshing that she knows this key skill at her level of experience, some F1 drivers never get there even after winning WDCs.

Her pole lap at Brands Hatch was indicative, 0.45s faster than 2nd place and 0.85s faster than third, I am certain she could have been faster in the race if that pot of gold had required her to be.

Good luck to her next season, I hope she gets a top team and can show her competitiveness in whatever series she races.

Meanwhile, we need to wait a couple of years at least until JuJu Noda is allowed to race at senior level.

You don't drive as fast that allows cars to pass you, it wasn't convincing at all by Chadwick, she got a great start to the season by virtue of racing similar cars just before the season started and then the other drivers started catching up to her to the point were she wasn't winning races.

If they started the season again tomorrow I think she would have big problems winning the series.

She has in fact won a race in British F3 against male drivers too. So the idea that she's slow is one that I struggle with. I think she felt the pressure in that last race of the W series and she didn't have a good last race but, other than that, she was on the podium in every other round. You seem to have a very strong and predetermined negative opinion of all female drivers and it's to a point where it has put blinders on you.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:41 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You don't drive as fast that allows cars to pass you, it wasn't convincing at all by Chadwick, she got a great start to the season by virtue of racing similar cars just before the season started and then the other drivers started catching up to her to the point were she wasn't winning races.

If they started the season again tomorrow I think she would have big problems winning the series.

She has in fact won a race in British F3 against male drivers too. So the idea that she's slow is one that I struggle with. I think she felt the pressure in that last race of the W series and she didn't have a good last race but, other than that, she was on the podium in every other round. You seem to have a very strong and predetermined negative opinion of all female drivers and it's to a point where it has put blinders on you.

She described it as the worst race of her life, and I'm inclined to believe her. A lot of drivers struggle under the pressure of winning their first title - that's precisely why proven drivers are considered to have an edge. They've been there before.

That said, I do agree with some of pokerman's post about Chadwick. Coming into the W series, she was the one with the most recent and relevant experience of an F3 car. Other drivers with far less experience may have more potential and a higher ceiling.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:53 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
Sadly, many here seem to assume that Chadwick drove as fast as she could all the time which reflects on them not her.

There's no doubt in my mind that she drove only as fast as she needed to to win a championship and $0.5m, how refreshing that she knows this key skill at her level of experience, some F1 drivers never get there even after winning WDCs.

Her pole lap at Brands Hatch was indicative, 0.45s faster than 2nd place and 0.85s faster than third, I am certain she could have been faster in the race if that pot of gold had required her to be.

Good luck to her next season, I hope she gets a top team and can show her competitiveness in whatever series she races.

Meanwhile, we need to wait a couple of years at least until JuJu Noda is allowed to race at senior level.

You don't drive as fast that allows cars to pass you, it wasn't convincing at all by Chadwick, she got a great start to the season by virtue of racing similar cars just before the season started and then the other drivers started catching up to her to the point were she wasn't winning races.

If they started the season again tomorrow I think she would have big problems winning the series.

She has in fact won a race in British F3 against male drivers too. So the idea that she's slow is one that I struggle with. I think she felt the pressure in that last race of the W series and she didn't have a good last race but, other than that, she was on the podium in every other round. You seem to have a very strong and predetermined negative opinion of all female drivers and it's to a point where it has put blinders on you.


Slow is a relative term. She clearly isn't slow but relative to the other drivers she wants to compete with... I have my doubts.

This is the only real yardstick we have to judge her by.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_BRDC ... ampionship

At a fairly low level, that isn't really all that exciting. Her win and only other podium both came in race 2, i.e. reverse grid. Her win at Brands Hatch came in between an 11th and a 12th.

I've also seen some daft comments, like 'put her in a Williams, she can't be worse than Kubica.' Yes she would be. She is slightly better than Powell, who was regularly 2 seconds off the pace in GP3.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
I think Kimiläinen would have been a serious title challenger without the injury.

I believe she got the fastest lap in the last 3 races she competed in?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:22 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
Sadly, many here seem to assume that Chadwick drove as fast as she could all the time which reflects on them not her.

There's no doubt in my mind that she drove only as fast as she needed to to win a championship and $0.5m, how refreshing that she knows this key skill at her level of experience, some F1 drivers never get there even after winning WDCs.

Her pole lap at Brands Hatch was indicative, 0.45s faster than 2nd place and 0.85s faster than third, I am certain she could have been faster in the race if that pot of gold had required her to be.

Good luck to her next season, I hope she gets a top team and can show her competitiveness in whatever series she races.

Meanwhile, we need to wait a couple of years at least until JuJu Noda is allowed to race at senior level.

You don't drive as fast that allows cars to pass you, it wasn't convincing at all by Chadwick, she got a great start to the season by virtue of racing similar cars just before the season started and then the other drivers started catching up to her to the point were she wasn't winning races.

If they started the season again tomorrow I think she would have big problems winning the series.

She has in fact won a race in British F3 against male drivers too. So the idea that she's slow is one that I struggle with. I think she felt the pressure in that last race of the W series and she didn't have a good last race but, other than that, she was on the podium in every other round. You seem to have a very strong and predetermined negative opinion of all female drivers and it's to a point where it has put blinders on you.

A reverse grid win against a field of drivers I have never heard of apart from Billy Monger, she finished 12th in the first race, this being her second season of British F3.

The general standard of women driving is presently not that high, if there is no outstanding woman in the series then it's very doubtful they will be successful in any main stream single seater series.

However I think the W series is a good idea in promoting female racing if it can encourage other women to take up the sport, you increase the numbers taking part in the sport then there's a much greater chance of finding the next Michele Mouton.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:03 am 
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So here's the driver criteria for season 2 of the W series:

* Top 12 drivers from season 1 automatically get offered a seat for next year
* Minimum 8 seats are up for grabs (9 if Chadwick can get a gig in another series).

Report is they have interest from 40 drivers for next year though no news on how many of the 40 are outside of those who didn't finish in the top 12 or who tried but failed to qualify for series 1.

https://motorsportweek.com/news/id/24100

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:19 am 
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40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:10 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.


At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:53 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.


At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.


Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:28 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.


At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.


Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."


She is entitled. Went to expensive private school, Cheltenham Ladies College, both parents multi-millionaires who are big in the City, property and farming.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:49 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.

I'm inclined to agree. Who's ever heard of a feeder series where the champion stays for a second year?

On the other hand, if she stays I'm sure that will energize all the drivers like Kimilainen who may have felt they deserved it more than she did.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.

I'm inclined to agree. Who's ever heard of a feeder series where the champion stays for a second year?

On the other hand, if she stays I'm sure that will energize all the drivers like Kimilainen who may have felt they deserved it more than she did.


She will look a right plank if she turns down a fairly decent F3 team to get more cash, then finishes behind the likes of Powell and Kimilainen, gets no money and everyone loses interest in her.

Strike now whilst your stock is high!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:50 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.


At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.


Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."

Yeah I'm kind of confused if she has the budget for a F3 team now or not, she claims that you need an extra half a million to drive for the top 3 teams without which you can't win but as I see it 5 teams, which encompass half the grid, have been able to position a driver onto a feature race podium.

Prema are a bit like the Mercedes of F3, is it Prema or no deal for her?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place


Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Posts: 1233
Banana Man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.


At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.


Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."


I can see what you're saying but to be fair she clarifies this later on

"It doesn’t matter who you are, you can ruin your career by doing that," she said.

"The drivers that progress into F1 have always been in the top teams, in the right environment, and I want to be the same. I don’t want to fast-track it for no reason."

Asked if she felt it was important for the W Series itself that she performs strongly in other championships in future, Chadwick replied:

"Definitely. The main thing for the championship is, not just me but the whole grid, whenever they go and do what they want to do [in other series], we’re better when we were before, and in a situation to race at the top level.

"We won’t be able to fully silence [all the doubters] until we do what we set out to achieve, which is to get a female to the top level, to F1, and on merit.
"

I think that's fair...but... A driver can do enough to showcase themselves even in a lesser car. Even in F1 - think about Alonso/Webber shining in a Minardi, Raikkonen showing up well against Heidfeld in a Sauber or even Albon in the Torro Rosso.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:17 pm 
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Posts: 2272
DOLOMITE wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.


At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.


Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."


I can see what you're saying but to be fair she clarifies this later on

"It doesn’t matter who you are, you can ruin your career by doing that," she said.

"The drivers that progress into F1 have always been in the top teams, in the right environment, and I want to be the same. I don’t want to fast-track it for no reason."

Asked if she felt it was important for the W Series itself that she performs strongly in other championships in future, Chadwick replied:

"Definitely. The main thing for the championship is, not just me but the whole grid, whenever they go and do what they want to do [in other series], we’re better when we were before, and in a situation to race at the top level.

"We won’t be able to fully silence [all the doubters] until we do what we set out to achieve, which is to get a female to the top level, to F1, and on merit.
"

I think that's fair...but... A driver can do enough to showcase themselves even in a lesser car. Even in F1 - think about Alonso/Webber shining in a Minardi, Raikkonen showing up well against Heidfeld in a Sauber or even Albon in the Torro Rosso.


I read all that in the article, perhaps I should clarify my point; she comes across as entitled and deluded.

Fast track to F1?! Please, you came 8th in British F3. To get the top drives in F3, you need to be winning series like that and leaving the likes of Powell for dust. Your last sentence shows the truth of it. If Alonso can drive a Minardi, Chadwick can put up with a midfield F3 team. No doubt she will completely blitz her team mate(s), attract the attention of a top F2 team with manufacturer backing and be in F1 in 3 years.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:46 pm 
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Posts: 6869
Banana Man wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.


At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.


Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."


I can see what you're saying but to be fair she clarifies this later on

"It doesn’t matter who you are, you can ruin your career by doing that," she said.

"The drivers that progress into F1 have always been in the top teams, in the right environment, and I want to be the same. I don’t want to fast-track it for no reason."

Asked if she felt it was important for the W Series itself that she performs strongly in other championships in future, Chadwick replied:

"Definitely. The main thing for the championship is, not just me but the whole grid, whenever they go and do what they want to do [in other series], we’re better when we were before, and in a situation to race at the top level.

"We won’t be able to fully silence [all the doubters] until we do what we set out to achieve, which is to get a female to the top level, to F1, and on merit.
"

I think that's fair...but... A driver can do enough to showcase themselves even in a lesser car. Even in F1 - think about Alonso/Webber shining in a Minardi, Raikkonen showing up well against Heidfeld in a Sauber or even Albon in the Torro Rosso.


I read all that in the article, perhaps I should clarify my point; she comes across as entitled and deluded.

Fast track to F1?! Please, you came 8th in British F3. To get the top drives in F3, you need to be winning series like that and leaving the likes of Powell for dust. Your last sentence shows the truth of it. If Alonso can drive a Minardi, Chadwick can put up with a midfield F3 team. No doubt she will completely blitz her team mate(s), attract the attention of a top F2 team with manufacturer backing and be in F1 in 3 years.

I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:22 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


So how did the drivers who are in the top teams now get there?

Did they buy their way in or was there some other factor that may have convinced the team owners to give them the drive?

_________________
Races since last non RB, Merc, Ferrari winner (After Japan- 19) - 135 & counting.( Last win, Lotus, 17/3/13)

Non RB, Merc, Ferrari podiums won in Hybrid era - 351 trophies available, 24 won

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32789
Banana Man wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
40 applicants? Really? That's pathetic. 40 applications for a fully funded drive ina f3 spec car? That seems low, unless they have more stringent criteria this year, I would expect more interest than that.


At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.


Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."


I can see what you're saying but to be fair she clarifies this later on

"It doesn’t matter who you are, you can ruin your career by doing that," she said.

"The drivers that progress into F1 have always been in the top teams, in the right environment, and I want to be the same. I don’t want to fast-track it for no reason."

Asked if she felt it was important for the W Series itself that she performs strongly in other championships in future, Chadwick replied:

"Definitely. The main thing for the championship is, not just me but the whole grid, whenever they go and do what they want to do [in other series], we’re better when we were before, and in a situation to race at the top level.

"We won’t be able to fully silence [all the doubters] until we do what we set out to achieve, which is to get a female to the top level, to F1, and on merit.
"

I think that's fair...but... A driver can do enough to showcase themselves even in a lesser car. Even in F1 - think about Alonso/Webber shining in a Minardi, Raikkonen showing up well against Heidfeld in a Sauber or even Albon in the Torro Rosso.


I read all that in the article, perhaps I should clarify my point; she comes across as entitled and deluded.

Fast track to F1?! Please, you came 8th in British F3. To get the top drives in F3, you need to be winning series like that and leaving the likes of Powell for dust. Your last sentence shows the truth of it. If Alonso can drive a Minardi, Chadwick can put up with a midfield F3 team. No doubt she will completely blitz her team mate(s), attract the attention of a top F2 team with manufacturer backing and be in F1 in 3 years.

Indeed but it never happens, they invariable can't even beat their male teammates but put me in a Prema F3 car and it will make all the difference?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place


Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32789
sandman1347 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
At a guess i'd wager 99% of those applicants were candidates in either the series proper or the trials for season 1.

Looks like Chadwick could be back as well as she believes 1/2 a mil might not be enough to buy her the F3 drive she wants.

"There are 30 seats in that series but maybe only six that you really want. To do it with the right team is another half a million or something. The prize money in W Series is fantastic, but sadly in motorsport it can be swallowed just like that"

https://au.motorsport.com/w-series/news/jamie-chadwick-budget-shortfall-f3/4512990/

I suppose instead of, i'll say indicating, the reasons why she can't buy her way straight into a top drive, she could always spend the 1/2 mill, plus any personal sponsorship she may have, to buy her way into a drive she can afford, prove herself by beating her team mate & work her way up from there like I guess most others do.

I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.


Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."


I can see what you're saying but to be fair she clarifies this later on

"It doesn’t matter who you are, you can ruin your career by doing that," she said.

"The drivers that progress into F1 have always been in the top teams, in the right environment, and I want to be the same. I don’t want to fast-track it for no reason."

Asked if she felt it was important for the W Series itself that she performs strongly in other championships in future, Chadwick replied:

"Definitely. The main thing for the championship is, not just me but the whole grid, whenever they go and do what they want to do [in other series], we’re better when we were before, and in a situation to race at the top level.

"We won’t be able to fully silence [all the doubters] until we do what we set out to achieve, which is to get a female to the top level, to F1, and on merit.
"

I think that's fair...but... A driver can do enough to showcase themselves even in a lesser car. Even in F1 - think about Alonso/Webber shining in a Minardi, Raikkonen showing up well against Heidfeld in a Sauber or even Albon in the Torro Rosso.


I read all that in the article, perhaps I should clarify my point; she comes across as entitled and deluded.

Fast track to F1?! Please, you came 8th in British F3. To get the top drives in F3, you need to be winning series like that and leaving the likes of Powell for dust. Your last sentence shows the truth of it. If Alonso can drive a Minardi, Chadwick can put up with a midfield F3 team. No doubt she will completely blitz her team mate(s), attract the attention of a top F2 team with manufacturer backing and be in F1 in 3 years.

I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.

The thing is though Hamilton did finish 5th and won a race and not a reverse grid race at that, when has a women come even close to emulating that?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place


Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16040
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Banana Man wrote:

Wow, if those quotes are true she doesn't half come across as entitled. It's like winning a national F3 series and saying, "yeah I want to be in F1 but you only really want a Ferrari, Merc or RB seat."


I can see what you're saying but to be fair she clarifies this later on

"It doesn’t matter who you are, you can ruin your career by doing that," she said.

"The drivers that progress into F1 have always been in the top teams, in the right environment, and I want to be the same. I don’t want to fast-track it for no reason."

Asked if she felt it was important for the W Series itself that she performs strongly in other championships in future, Chadwick replied:

"Definitely. The main thing for the championship is, not just me but the whole grid, whenever they go and do what they want to do [in other series], we’re better when we were before, and in a situation to race at the top level.

"We won’t be able to fully silence [all the doubters] until we do what we set out to achieve, which is to get a female to the top level, to F1, and on merit.
"

I think that's fair...but... A driver can do enough to showcase themselves even in a lesser car. Even in F1 - think about Alonso/Webber shining in a Minardi, Raikkonen showing up well against Heidfeld in a Sauber or even Albon in the Torro Rosso.


I read all that in the article, perhaps I should clarify my point; she comes across as entitled and deluded.

Fast track to F1?! Please, you came 8th in British F3. To get the top drives in F3, you need to be winning series like that and leaving the likes of Powell for dust. Your last sentence shows the truth of it. If Alonso can drive a Minardi, Chadwick can put up with a midfield F3 team. No doubt she will completely blitz her team mate(s), attract the attention of a top F2 team with manufacturer backing and be in F1 in 3 years.

I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.

The thing is though Hamilton did finish 5th and won a race and not a reverse grid race at that, when has a women come even close to emulating that?


Basically this. If she does a decent job in a bad team in F3 she'll definitely get picked up in an F1 junior team which will lead to a drive in a better team.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32789
Jezza13 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


So how did the drivers who are in the top teams now get there?

Did they buy their way in or was there some other factor that may have convinced the team owners to give them the drive?

Quite a few are F1 junior drivers, normally to get into the scheme you are spotted as a talent, here are the top 6 drivers:-

1. Robert Shartzman - Ferrari junior academy
2. Juri Vips - Red Bull junior
3. Jehan Daruvala - A product of Force India to find an Indian F1 driver
4. Marcus Armstrong - I thought he was part of the Ferrari academy but he's just shown as being managed by Nichola Todt who has close links with Ferrari.
5. Christian Lungaard - Renault academy
6. Max Fewtrell - Renault academy

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place


Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32789
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
I can see what you're saying but to be fair she clarifies this later on

"It doesn’t matter who you are, you can ruin your career by doing that," she said.

"The drivers that progress into F1 have always been in the top teams, in the right environment, and I want to be the same. I don’t want to fast-track it for no reason."

Asked if she felt it was important for the W Series itself that she performs strongly in other championships in future, Chadwick replied:

"Definitely. The main thing for the championship is, not just me but the whole grid, whenever they go and do what they want to do [in other series], we’re better when we were before, and in a situation to race at the top level.

"We won’t be able to fully silence [all the doubters] until we do what we set out to achieve, which is to get a female to the top level, to F1, and on merit.
"

I think that's fair...but... A driver can do enough to showcase themselves even in a lesser car. Even in F1 - think about Alonso/Webber shining in a Minardi, Raikkonen showing up well against Heidfeld in a Sauber or even Albon in the Torro Rosso.


I read all that in the article, perhaps I should clarify my point; she comes across as entitled and deluded.

Fast track to F1?! Please, you came 8th in British F3. To get the top drives in F3, you need to be winning series like that and leaving the likes of Powell for dust. Your last sentence shows the truth of it. If Alonso can drive a Minardi, Chadwick can put up with a midfield F3 team. No doubt she will completely blitz her team mate(s), attract the attention of a top F2 team with manufacturer backing and be in F1 in 3 years.

I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.

The thing is though Hamilton did finish 5th and won a race and not a reverse grid race at that, when has a women come even close to emulating that?


Basically this. If she does a decent job in a bad team in F3 she'll definitely get picked up in an F1 junior team which will lead to a drive in a better team.

Without a doubt, the sponsorship opportunities for a competitive female driver I would say far exceeds that of an equivalent talented male driver, Danica Patrick pays testament to that.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:41 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


So how did the drivers who are in the top teams now get there?

Did they buy their way in or was there some other factor that may have convinced the team owners to give them the drive?

Quite a few are F1 junior drivers, normally to get into the scheme you are spotted as a talent, here are the top 6 drivers:-

1. Robert Shartzman - Ferrari junior academy
2. Juri Vips - Red Bull junior
3. Jehan Daruvala - A product of Force India to find an Indian F1 driver
4. Marcus Armstrong - I thought he was part of the Ferrari academy but he's just shown as being managed by Nichola Todt who has close links with Ferrari.
5. Christian Lungaard - Renault academy
6. Max Fewtrell - Renault academy


Armstrong's still listed as an academy driver on the Ferrari driver academy site.

What I was fishing for poker was a concession that it'll actually take more than Chadwick's $$$ to get her a drive in the top teams as she seems to think that's all she'll need.

Considering her comment i'd not be surprised if she's done her dash getting an F3 drive. She's basically told 7 teams that they're no good & she's not interested in driving for them &, to her surprise, she might find the top F3 teams actually have no need or interest in employing her.

The W series was established to give women a path to F1, & if Chadwick, after winning the inaugural series, hangs around for a 2nd crack it won't be a good advertisement for her & it certainly won't be a good advertisement for the validity of the series.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:19 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:

I read all that in the article, perhaps I should clarify my point; she comes across as entitled and deluded.

Fast track to F1?! Please, you came 8th in British F3. To get the top drives in F3, you need to be winning series like that and leaving the likes of Powell for dust. Your last sentence shows the truth of it. If Alonso can drive a Minardi, Chadwick can put up with a midfield F3 team. No doubt she will completely blitz her team mate(s), attract the attention of a top F2 team with manufacturer backing and be in F1 in 3 years.

I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.

The thing is though Hamilton did finish 5th and won a race and not a reverse grid race at that, when has a women come even close to emulating that?


Basically this. If she does a decent job in a bad team in F3 she'll definitely get picked up in an F1 junior team which will lead to a drive in a better team.

Without a doubt, the sponsorship opportunities for a competitive female driver I would say far exceeds that of an equivalent talented male driver, Danica Patrick pays testament to that.


Danica Patrick is pretty much why I have doubts over this series as a tool to get girls racing karts. Patrick is possibly the most high profile racing driver in the states over the last 20 years. If having a viable role model is what was required then we would be getting female drivers starting to break through in America. And we aren't.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


So how did the drivers who are in the top teams now get there?

Did they buy their way in or was there some other factor that may have convinced the team owners to give them the drive?

Quite a few are F1 junior drivers, normally to get into the scheme you are spotted as a talent, here are the top 6 drivers:-

1. Robert Shartzman - Ferrari junior academy
2. Juri Vips - Red Bull junior
3. Jehan Daruvala - A product of Force India to find an Indian F1 driver
4. Marcus Armstrong - I thought he was part of the Ferrari academy but he's just shown as being managed by Nichola Todt who has close links with Ferrari.
5. Christian Lungaard - Renault academy
6. Max Fewtrell - Renault academy


Armstrong's still listed as an academy driver on the Ferrari driver academy site.

What I was fishing for poker was a concession that it'll actually take more than Chadwick's $$$ to get her a drive in the top teams as she seems to think that's all she'll need.

Considering her comment i'd not be surprised if she's done her dash getting an F3 drive. She's basically told 7 teams that they're no good & she's not interested in driving for them &, to her surprise, she might find the top F3 teams actually have no need or interest in employing her.

The W series was established to give women a path to F1, & if Chadwick, after winning the inaugural series, hangs around for a 2nd crack it won't be a good advertisement for her & it certainly won't be a good advertisement for the validity of the series.

Yeah the championship shouldn't allow champions to race again in the following year at least, like F2.

This could define what the series becomes:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:28 pm 
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Having read a few past interviews with her, this daughter of multi-millionaires has some issues with rich guys. 'When you're competing with guys who have bottomless pockets...' Stroll is mentioned elsewhere in a negative way.
Maybe the journey the likes of LeClerc, Vettel, Schumacher, Button, Hamilton,Alonso, etc. had to take isn't for the likes of her?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:35 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
Having read a few past interviews with her, this daughter of multi-millionaires has some issues with rich guys. 'When you're competing with guys who have bottomless pockets...' Stroll is mentioned elsewhere in a negative way.
Maybe the journey the likes of LeClerc, Vettel, Schumacher, Button, Hamilton,Alonso, etc. had to take isn't for the likes of her?


Well the issue is she isn't good enough for that. With Stroll or Latiffi money behind her then maybe but the truth is any girl who looks in any way like they might, maybe be able to make it won't find funding much of an issue.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:55 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


The point is though that Russel is there, he took the seat because it was the best available, just like Alonso, Webber, Vettel, Ricciardo, Schumacher, Senna, Hakkinen... basically almost everyone except Hamilton. They all trounced their team mates in uncompetitive cars and got a drive with a big team.

I'm not sure who she thinks she's kidding; thinking she should walk into a top F3 team because she won W Series and finished 8th in British F3. None of the drivers who beat her in the latter have an F3 drive as of yet and in reality she was probably the 10th best driver in that series.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:29 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
I think those that run the W series should be saying to the winner "Ok. You've won the series, you've got the exposure & publicity & you've won $1/2m. We've given you a leg up, now go out & get the best drive you can get".

I don't think it's right that the winner should be invited back for a 2nd bite of the Cherry. That just defeats the purpose of the series.

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Why should this be the feeder series where the winner is allowed to come back? That certainly makes it look a lot less like a stepping stone and a lot more like a separate championship for drivers deemed less worthy, which is where many (myself included) have had concerns that it's been headed all along. At best it makes it into almost an academy for female drivers, but if they want to do that, actually founding an academy would be a better route to go.

She really ought to be able to get a decent drive with the prize money plus sponsorship money, and if she can't, there's something else wrong there. I have my doubts that a top three team is actually necessary in F3 or F2. I'd think at least she could get a drive in one of the smaller teams, beat her team-mate and do well for that, and then move up to a bigger team next year. Unless of course she can't do that, in which case she is simply not good enough and all the money in the world won't help.

Regardless of how Chadwick ends up doing in F3, in order to define the series as a reasonable junior series, I think W Series needs to go back on the idea that the winner can return.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:38 pm 
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Remmirath wrote:
I have my doubts that a top three team is actually necessary in F3 or F2. I'd think at least she could get a drive in one of the smaller teams, beat her team-mate and do well for that, and then move up to a bigger team next year. Unless of course she can't do that, in which case she is simply not good enough and all the money in the world won't help.

I think the team doesn't matter much in F2, but in F3 it's a little different. Prema has won every single championship except for the one Lando Norris managed to steal. There is a very strong suggestion that driving for Prema really does increase your chances of winning the title, although Lando is proof that it's not an absolute must-have.

That said, I agree with the general consensus. She should get whatever drive she can get for $500,000 and impress with her driving. She may think she's suddenly Fernando Alonso and able to name her team in whatever series she joins... but the reality is that she's just won the equivalent of a regional F3 championship. She's still pretty low on the ladder.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:51 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


The point is though that Russel is there, he took the seat because it was the best available, just like Alonso, Webber, Vettel, Ricciardo, Schumacher, Senna, Hakkinen... basically almost everyone except Hamilton. They all trounced their team mates in uncompetitive cars and got a drive with a big team.

I'm not sure who she thinks she's kidding; thinking she should walk into a top F3 team because she won W Series and finished 8th in British F3. None of the drivers who beat her in the latter have an F3 drive as of yet and in reality she was probably the 10th best driver in that series.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way to be honest. Having already competed in F3, she knows first-hand how important it is to be with the top teams. She finished 8th in the series but, had she been with a top team, she would likely have finished higher up in the standings. She's simply saying that she is not looking to go back into F3 in the same exact position that she was in the last time around. Having won a championship this season; it's logical for her to try to pivot that into a top drive in whatever series she goes to next. You're looking at it as some kind of entitlement thing but it's just common sense.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:00 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I think you're looking at it the wrong way to be honest. Having already competed in F3, she knows first-hand how important it is to be with the top teams. She finished 8th in the series but, had she been with a top team, she would likely have finished higher up in the standings. She's simply saying that she is not looking to go back into F3 in the same exact position that she was in the last time around. Having won a championship this season; it's logical for her to try to pivot that into a top drive in whatever series she goes to next. You're looking at it as some kind of entitlement thing but it's just common sense.

To be honest, I don't think it's common sense -- or even correct. Her stock right now is as high as I can see it going; I don't think she's likely to win another W series title if she stays.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:13 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think you're looking at it the wrong way to be honest. Having already competed in F3, she knows first-hand how important it is to be with the top teams. She finished 8th in the series but, had she been with a top team, she would likely have finished higher up in the standings. She's simply saying that she is not looking to go back into F3 in the same exact position that she was in the last time around. Having won a championship this season; it's logical for her to try to pivot that into a top drive in whatever series she goes to next. You're looking at it as some kind of entitlement thing but it's just common sense.

To be honest, I don't think it's common sense -- or even correct. Her stock right now is as high as I can see it going; I don't think she's likely to win another W series title if she stays.

Which is why it makes sense for her to try to move up the ladder now. Perhaps you don't see her going anywhere but I'm sure she sees things differently. This is her trying to play her cards right.


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