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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:24 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
There are sports where women can compete equally with men physically such as aerobatics, fixed wing glider (not hang gliders) racing, show jumping, etc. F1 isn't one of them, Noda is 100% correct, women have to compensate for their physiological disadvantages with MORE training to compete with men.



Saying it's harder to get there isn't the same thing as it can't be done.

That being the case you would then have to ask just how serious some of these women are, Calderon apparently gave up on F2 because she found it physically too hard I believe?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:28 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
There are sports where women can compete equally with men physically such as aerobatics, fixed wing glider (not hang gliders) racing, show jumping, etc. F1 isn't one of them, Noda is 100% correct, women have to compensate for their physiological disadvantages with MORE training to compete with men.



Saying it's harder to get there isn't the same thing as it can't be done.

That being the case you would then have to ask just how serious some of these women are, Calderon apparently gave up on F2 because she found it physically too hard I believe?


I think it's well known F2 is more physical than F1.

Also, I was under the impression that not much was expected of Calderon in F2? I don't think her performances were out of the realms of what you would expect given her career up to that point.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:39 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tia lifts more than most guys who have been lifting for years. Now there's noway you have to be that strong to drive an F1 car so a women should be OK. Even if they have to train a little harder to get there. F2 is much more physical than F1. It's been said by numerous people.

Well she's probably one of these 1 in a thousand women, we seem to be going down this route that any woman can be as strong as a man and therefore can compete on an equal footing to a man which clearly is not true.

We've seen in the past the likes of Danica Patrick struggle to drive an Indycar on street and road courses because the cars didn't have power steering, why wasn't it a simple matter of her bulking up and getting stronger so it wouldn't be a problem for her, nominally as a professionally sportsman that's what you would do if it was possible.

It's true to say this might not be a problem in F1 but of course it's not to say such things have never been a problem for women like with Calderon in F2, and who's to say they might not make the F1 cars harder to drive in the future, Hamilton already complained last season that the cars were too easy to drive.

It's just one aspect to consider on the back of recent statements by Calderon and JuJu Noda and perhaps it's more poignant with the likes of Calderon who is reasonable big and not small like Patrick and Noda, if it's so easy for a woman to get in shape like Tia then why couldn't Calderon do it?


It's not clearly untrue.

Any healthy young women could train up to be as strong as an average man. I've seen it done. Many, many times over.

You're 1/1000 may apply to the average population walking about. Maybe 1/1000 women would be naturally stronger than the average man without either under going any strength training. That, I agree, would be very rare.

But we aren't talking about that. The question that's important is do women have the potential to train up to being as strong as a male formula 1 driver. The answer to that to me is pretty clearly a yes.

You don't need to be as strong as Tia either. Nothing like that strong I would have thought. I just used her as an example to show what was possible.

Don't forget F2 and Indycar is a hell of a lot more physical than F1.

I think there's two things that you are confusing so I have to say no then yes, can a woman train to be as strong as a male F1 driver, a woman maybe, just any woman I would say no.

I would say that F1 drivers probably train just as hard as let's say tennis players, in that sport the women probably train just as hard as the men so then why are the women weaker?

However to the other part then maybe a yes that women in general can be strong enough to drive a F1 car competitively although we've yet to see one that's good enough to make it to that level, but like I say it's a fine line to draw given the likes of Patrick, Noda and Calderon have struggled physically in other single seater racing cars were their male competitors have not had a problem.


Oh, they would have to train differently that's for sure. Remember Rosberg talking about how he stopped cycling in order to lose muscle in his legs? A woman probably couldn't afford to do something like that.

It's one thing to say they can achieve certain physical levels and another thing for them to do it, lack of power steering seems to be something of a general handicap.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:51 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well she's probably one of these 1 in a thousand women, we seem to be going down this route that any woman can be as strong as a man and therefore can compete on an equal footing to a man which clearly is not true.

We've seen in the past the likes of Danica Patrick struggle to drive an Indycar on street and road courses because the cars didn't have power steering, why wasn't it a simple matter of her bulking up and getting stronger so it wouldn't be a problem for her, nominally as a professionally sportsman that's what you would do if it was possible.

It's true to say this might not be a problem in F1 but of course it's not to say such things have never been a problem for women like with Calderon in F2, and who's to say they might not make the F1 cars harder to drive in the future, Hamilton already complained last season that the cars were too easy to drive.

It's just one aspect to consider on the back of recent statements by Calderon and JuJu Noda and perhaps it's more poignant with the likes of Calderon who is reasonable big and not small like Patrick and Noda, if it's so easy for a woman to get in shape like Tia then why couldn't Calderon do it?


It's not clearly untrue.

Any healthy young women could train up to be as strong as an average man. I've seen it done. Many, many times over.

You're 1/1000 may apply to the average population walking about. Maybe 1/1000 women would be naturally stronger than the average man without either under going any strength training. That, I agree, would be very rare.

But we aren't talking about that. The question that's important is do women have the potential to train up to being as strong as a male formula 1 driver. The answer to that to me is pretty clearly a yes.

You don't need to be as strong as Tia either. Nothing like that strong I would have thought. I just used her as an example to show what was possible.

Don't forget F2 and Indycar is a hell of a lot more physical than F1.

I think there's two things that you are confusing so I have to say no then yes, can a woman train to be as strong as a male F1 driver, a woman maybe, just any woman I would say no.

I would say that F1 drivers probably train just as hard as let's say tennis players, in that sport the women probably train just as hard as the men so then why are the women weaker?

However to the other part then maybe a yes that women in general can be strong enough to drive a F1 car competitively although we've yet to see one that's good enough to make it to that level, but like I say it's a fine line to draw given the likes of Patrick, Noda and Calderon have struggled physically in other single seater racing cars were their male competitors have not had a problem.


Oh, they would have to train differently that's for sure. Remember Rosberg talking about how he stopped cycling in order to lose muscle in his legs? A woman probably couldn't afford to do something like that.

It's one thing to say they can achieve certain physical levels and another thing for them to do it, lack of power steering seems to be something of a general handicap.


Yes in F2. We haven't been talking about F2... I agree that is tougher.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:09 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
There are sports where women can compete equally with men physically such as aerobatics, fixed wing glider (not hang gliders) racing, show jumping, etc. F1 isn't one of them, Noda is 100% correct, women have to compensate for their physiological disadvantages with MORE training to compete with men.



Saying it's harder to get there isn't the same thing as it can't be done.

That being the case you would then have to ask just how serious some of these women are, Calderon apparently gave up on F2 because she found it physically too hard I believe?


I think it's well known F2 is more physical than F1.

Also, I was under the impression that not much was expected of Calderon in F2? I don't think her performances were out of the realms of what you would expect given her career up to that point.

Unfortunately that might be said of any of the female drivers presently competing, physicality is just one area to discuss which might be a limiting factor for them among other things like lack of numbers.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:15 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's not clearly untrue.

Any healthy young women could train up to be as strong as an average man. I've seen it done. Many, many times over.

You're 1/1000 may apply to the average population walking about. Maybe 1/1000 women would be naturally stronger than the average man without either under going any strength training. That, I agree, would be very rare.

But we aren't talking about that. The question that's important is do women have the potential to train up to being as strong as a male formula 1 driver. The answer to that to me is pretty clearly a yes.

You don't need to be as strong as Tia either. Nothing like that strong I would have thought. I just used her as an example to show what was possible.

Don't forget F2 and Indycar is a hell of a lot more physical than F1.

I think there's two things that you are confusing so I have to say no then yes, can a woman train to be as strong as a male F1 driver, a woman maybe, just any woman I would say no.

I would say that F1 drivers probably train just as hard as let's say tennis players, in that sport the women probably train just as hard as the men so then why are the women weaker?

However to the other part then maybe a yes that women in general can be strong enough to drive a F1 car competitively although we've yet to see one that's good enough to make it to that level, but like I say it's a fine line to draw given the likes of Patrick, Noda and Calderon have struggled physically in other single seater racing cars were their male competitors have not had a problem.


Oh, they would have to train differently that's for sure. Remember Rosberg talking about how he stopped cycling in order to lose muscle in his legs? A woman probably couldn't afford to do something like that.

It's one thing to say they can achieve certain physical levels and another thing for them to do it, lack of power steering seems to be something of a general handicap.


Yes in F2. We haven't been talking about F2... I agree that is tougher.

That's to highlight you can't ignore possible physical limitations, it's easy to say there will not being any of those kind of problems in F1.

The argument that a woman can simply train harder might not always be true as we see when they have to deal with cars with no power steering.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:20 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think there's two things that you are confusing so I have to say no then yes, can a woman train to be as strong as a male F1 driver, a woman maybe, just any woman I would say no.

I would say that F1 drivers probably train just as hard as let's say tennis players, in that sport the women probably train just as hard as the men so then why are the women weaker?

However to the other part then maybe a yes that women in general can be strong enough to drive a F1 car competitively although we've yet to see one that's good enough to make it to that level, but like I say it's a fine line to draw given the likes of Patrick, Noda and Calderon have struggled physically in other single seater racing cars were their male competitors have not had a problem.


Oh, they would have to train differently that's for sure. Remember Rosberg talking about how he stopped cycling in order to lose muscle in his legs? A woman probably couldn't afford to do something like that.

It's one thing to say they can achieve certain physical levels and another thing for them to do it, lack of power steering seems to be something of a general handicap.


Yes in F2. We haven't been talking about F2... I agree that is tougher.

That's to highlight you can't ignore possible physical limitations, it's easy to say there will not being any of those kind of problems in F1.

The argument that a woman can simply train harder might not always be true as we see when they have to deal with cars with no power steering.


OK to state the obvious -

I am saying they can overcome a physical disadvantage to be capable in F1.

That does not mean they can overcome any possible physical disadvantage. The more strength becomes a factor the harder it becomes.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:27 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Oh, they would have to train differently that's for sure. Remember Rosberg talking about how he stopped cycling in order to lose muscle in his legs? A woman probably couldn't afford to do something like that.

It's one thing to say they can achieve certain physical levels and another thing for them to do it, lack of power steering seems to be something of a general handicap.


Yes in F2. We haven't been talking about F2... I agree that is tougher.

That's to highlight you can't ignore possible physical limitations, it's easy to say there will not being any of those kind of problems in F1.

The argument that a woman can simply train harder might not always be true as we see when they have to deal with cars with no power steering.


OK to state the obvious -

I am saying they can overcome a physical disadvantage to be capable in F1.

That does not mean they can overcome any possible physical disadvantage. The more strength becomes a factor the harder it becomes.

I'm saying you don't know that until you have actual proof, I would say that Noda is the first female to actually highlight the issue and she's only driving a low powered single seater.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's one thing to say they can achieve certain physical levels and another thing for them to do it, lack of power steering seems to be something of a general handicap.


Yes in F2. We haven't been talking about F2... I agree that is tougher.

That's to highlight you can't ignore possible physical limitations, it's easy to say there will not being any of those kind of problems in F1.

The argument that a woman can simply train harder might not always be true as we see when they have to deal with cars with no power steering.


OK to state the obvious -

I am saying they can overcome a physical disadvantage to be capable in F1.

That does not mean they can overcome any possible physical disadvantage. The more strength becomes a factor the harder it becomes.

I'm saying you don't know that until you have actual proof, I would say that Noda is the first female to actually highlight the issue and she's only driving a low powered single seater.


Ok, we don't know for certain in the way that almost nothing can be known for absolute certain. What we do know for certain though is that young women who under going strength training can gain strength to a level that far exceeds the usual strength of a man in his late teens of F1 build.

That's only the level they need to get to. They don't need super strength.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:59 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
...Calderon apparently gave up on F2 because she found it physically too hard I believe?


No, not at all:

"We don’t have any defined plans yet, I’m still staying out for testing to see if something comes up but to be honest it’s looking very difficult to stay in F2. The budget is a big issue at the moment as well. So we are looking at other opportunities at the moment, still [keeping in] mind that I want to reach F1"

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Having had her race 8 win taken away for what appeared to me to be an innocuous jump start, Chadwick secured her first official podium in race 10 of the F3 Asia series at Sepang this weekend.

Image

The race video is available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY4V9j0vkGM

In a wet race with a slowly drying track she was slower than Doohan (1st) and Alders (2nd) but passed Mazepin on the track and looked pretty competitive


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:12 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm saying you don't know that until you have actual proof, I would say that Noda is the first female to actually highlight the issue and she's only driving a low powered single seater.
Not true, she extensively tested/raced an F3 car over the past two years and has tested sports cars. She may be just 14 and a girl but give her some credit, she's actually done what most of us dream about.


Last edited by Battle Far on Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:19 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I 100% disagree on just about every point by I respect your opinion. Apart from calling me misogynistic. I don't respect that. Given the context of my posts is just weird. I'm saying women can do these things. I feel to see how that can possibly show any prejudice against women.

Edit- Hang on your last sentence is exactly what I have been saying! They would have to do more strength training to get to the required strength to drive an F1 car quickly.
Misogynistic = A tongue in cheek reference to your "chunky" quote.

Exactly, if they have to do more training to compete they are at a disadvantage :nod:

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but a friendly piece of advice, if a girl ever asks you "Does my bum look big in this?", no response with with "chunky" in it is acceptable ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:40 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm saying you don't know that until you have actual proof, I would say that Noda is the first female to actually highlight the issue and she's only driving a low powered single seater.
Not true, she extensively tested/raced an F3 car over the past two years and has tested sports cars. She may be just 14 and a girl but give her some credit, she's actually done what most of us dream about.


This isn't my quote.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:41 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I 100% disagree on just about every point by I respect your opinion. Apart from calling me misogynistic. I don't respect that. Given the context of my posts is just weird. I'm saying women can do these things. I feel to see how that can possibly show any prejudice against women.

Edit- Hang on your last sentence is exactly what I have been saying! They would have to do more strength training to get to the required strength to drive an F1 car quickly.
Misogynistic = A tongue in cheek reference to your "chunky" quote.

Exactly, if they have to do more training to compete they are at a disadvantage :nod:

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but a friendly piece of advice, if a girl ever asks you "Does my bum look big in this?", no response with with "chunky" in it is acceptable ;)


I'm not so sure about that anymore... The current trend is toward a chunkier, more muscular look.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:40 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Yes in F2. We haven't been talking about F2... I agree that is tougher.

That's to highlight you can't ignore possible physical limitations, it's easy to say there will not being any of those kind of problems in F1.

The argument that a woman can simply train harder might not always be true as we see when they have to deal with cars with no power steering.


OK to state the obvious -

I am saying they can overcome a physical disadvantage to be capable in F1.

That does not mean they can overcome any possible physical disadvantage. The more strength becomes a factor the harder it becomes.

I'm saying you don't know that until you have actual proof, I would say that Noda is the first female to actually highlight the issue and she's only driving a low powered single seater.


Ok, we don't know for certain in the way that almost nothing can be known for absolute certain. What we do know for certain though is that young women who under going strength training can gain strength to a level that far exceeds the usual strength of a man in his late teens of F1 build.

That's only the level they need to get to. They don't need super strength.

So why then would cars without power steering be a problem?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:46 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
...Calderon apparently gave up on F2 because she found it physically too hard I believe?


No, not at all:

"We don’t have any defined plans yet, I’m still staying out for testing to see if something comes up but to be honest it’s looking very difficult to stay in F2. The budget is a big issue at the moment as well. So we are looking at other opportunities at the moment, still [keeping in] mind that I want to reach F1"

Yeah I also came across that when looking for the actual quote but I definitely heard that the physicality of the F2 car was a problem for her in particular the absence of power steering which wouldn't be a problem with the car in the Japanese Super Formula.

Now I don't know if these cars have power steering or not but I've just checked and yes they have power steering on the Japanese Super Formula cars.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:05 am 
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Battle Far wrote:
Having had her race 8 win taken away for what appeared to me to be an innocuous jump start, Chadwick secured her first official podium in race 10 of the F3 Asia series at Sepang this weekend.

Image

The race video is available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY4V9j0vkGM

In a wet race with a slowly drying track she was slower than Doohan (1st) and Alders (2nd) but passed Mazepin on the track and looked pretty competitive

Yeah I recently watched the race, I'm glad I didn't come on here first because it would have spoiled the race for me.

Chadwick qualified 5th in the dry I believe, the race was wet on a drying track, all the drivers competed on wet tyres, in these conditions I thought she would have fallen backwards like she did before when it was wet but this time she was competitive so a very credible performance.

It's nice to see a woman being competitive unlike what we tend to see with them running near the back, one thing to consider though that one or two stronger drivers have dropped out of the series and this is not mainstream F3, the driver who's leading the series I would be surprised if anyone has heard of him before that being Joey Alders.

However I'm still quite impressed and her racecraft was very good, something that I thought was maybe a bit sketchy when I watched her in the 'W' series, she had no problems toughing it out with the male drivers.

Another good thing for her is that she's only 21 so she's time to gain any relative experience, she needs to be driving next season in the mainstream F3 series and placed in a good team and let's see what she can do.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:09 am 
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Battle Far wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm saying you don't know that until you have actual proof, I would say that Noda is the first female to actually highlight the issue and she's only driving a low powered single seater.
Not true, she extensively tested/raced an F3 car over the past two years and has tested sports cars. She may be just 14 and a girl but give her some credit, she's actually done what most of us dream about.

That's my post and I'm a bit confused by the reply. :?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:38 am 
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I've just watched the second race live, Chadwick was quick enough to finish 2nd but finished 4th, Mazepin in 2nd was basically being protected by his teammate who is not eligible for points but I think is just there to help him.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:08 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I've just watched the second race live, Chadwick was quick enough to finish 2nd but finished 4th, Mazepin in 2nd was basically being protected by his teammate who is not eligible for points but I think is just there to help him.


Finished 4th but classified 3rd as Sasahara not eligible for points. Just watching race 12.

Hadn't noticed that Koyama had also joined the series.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:23 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I've just watched the second race live, Chadwick was quick enough to finish 2nd but finished 4th, Mazepin in 2nd was basically being protected by his teammate who is not eligible for points but I think is just there to help him.


Finished 4th but classified 3rd as Sasahara not eligible for points. Just watching race 12.

Hadn't noticed that Koyama had also joined the series.

Would Koyama be any good?

Chadwick a bit off the pace in race 3.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:29 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I've just watched the second race live, Chadwick was quick enough to finish 2nd but finished 4th, Mazepin in 2nd was basically being protected by his teammate who is not eligible for points but I think is just there to help him.


Finished 4th but classified 3rd as Sasahara not eligible for points. Just watching race 12.

Hadn't noticed that Koyama had also joined the series.

Would Koyama be any good?

Chadwick a bit off the pace in race 3.


Koyama wasn't bad but didn't really shine.

Looks like Chadwick wasn't classified 3 but stayed 4th? for the 2nd race?

Spoiler (click to show)


Calderon not racing this weekend.

Doohan could nick the title if he keeps that form up.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:04 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I've just watched the second race live, Chadwick was quick enough to finish 2nd but finished 4th, Mazepin in 2nd was basically being protected by his teammate who is not eligible for points but I think is just there to help him.


Finished 4th but classified 3rd as Sasahara not eligible for points. Just watching race 12.

Hadn't noticed that Koyama had also joined the series.

Would Koyama be any good?

Chadwick a bit off the pace in race 3.


Koyama wasn't bad but didn't really shine.

Looks like Chadwick wasn't classified 3 but stayed 4th? for the 2nd race?

Spoiler (click to show)


Calderon not racing this weekend.

Doohan could nick the title if he keeps that form up.

No with Koyama you made it sound like he was a known driver, yes Chadwick is classified 4th but she scored points for 3rd place, I've just seen that Koyoma is actually another female driver.

6th in race 12 after some good passes sort of overlooks that there was basically only 8 cars in the race, one of which stalled at the start from grid 2.

Yes it's now a 2 horse race between Doohan and Alders, Alders could probably hope for some wet races.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I've just watched the second race live, Chadwick was quick enough to finish 2nd but finished 4th, Mazepin in 2nd was basically being protected by his teammate who is not eligible for points but I think is just there to help him.
Finished 4th but classified 3rd as Sasahara not eligible for points. Just watching race 12.

Hadn't noticed that Koyama had also joined the series.
Would Koyama be any good?

Chadwick a bit off the pace in race 3.
Koyama was 7th in the 2019 W series with some competitive races where she ran 3rd/4th for a while but never finished on the podium.

The variation in lap times is surprising, Chadwick recorded the 5th fastest lap in race 10 (wet), 2nd fastest in race 11 (dry) but only 7th fastest in race 12 (dry) more than 1.5s off the pace. It seems to me that there must be something peculiar with the tyres, perhaps there are 'good' sets and 'bad' sets or perhaps they can't have a new set for every race.

I note that Chadwick's relative performance was much stronger at Sepang for races 10-12 than it was at the same track in races 1-3. Her fastest laps were 2s off the pace of the mean of the podiums the first weekend, now well under a second off in the 4th weekend where she was comfortably the fastest of the 4 drivers in her team. I'm encouraged that she appears to be learning!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:21 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I've just watched the second race live, Chadwick was quick enough to finish 2nd but finished 4th, Mazepin in 2nd was basically being protected by his teammate who is not eligible for points but I think is just there to help him.
Finished 4th but classified 3rd as Sasahara not eligible for points. Just watching race 12.

Hadn't noticed that Koyama had also joined the series.
Would Koyama be any good?

Chadwick a bit off the pace in race 3.
Koyama was 7th in the 2019 W series with some competitive races where she ran 3rd/4th for a while but never finished on the podium.

The variation in lap times is surprising, Chadwick recorded the 5th fastest lap in race 10 (wet), 2nd fastest in race 11 (dry) but only 7th fastest in race 12 (dry) more than 1.5s off the pace. It seems to me that there must be something peculiar with the tyres, perhaps there are 'good' sets and 'bad' sets or perhaps they can't have a new set for every race.

I note that Chadwick's relative performance was much stronger at Sepang for races 10-12 than it was at the same track in races 1-3. Her fastest laps were 2s off the pace of the mean of the podiums the first weekend, now well under a second off in the 4th weekend where she was comfortably the fastest of the 4 drivers in her team. I'm encouraged that she appears to be learning!

Right I remember Koyama from the 'W' Series, in respect to the tyres I think they must be poor quality, after the last race Alders said he changed one set of tyres for another and there was a second difference in lap time. I would be guessing that might affect the durability of the tyres as well with them sometimes dropping off a cliff in the races.

In the third race Alders was able to run at the same pace as the winner Doohan, but in the second race Alders was running in second place and he said the rear tyres were destoyed and he ended up finishing 8th.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:55 pm 
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Race 13 of the series, held in Thailand saw Doohan dominate before a last lap puncture relegated him down the field, Alders inheriting the win with Chadwick, 3rd on the road promoted to second after Mazepin was, penalised for his antics during their last lap battle. Chadwick's fastest lap was within a few hundredths of Alders.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:22 pm 
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Races 14 & 15 saw Chadwick place 2nd both times and climb to 4th overall in the championship.

Given her slow start her improvement was impressive scoring 5 podiums in the last 6 races. She also lost a race win after the jump start penalty, I really didn't expect her to be that competitive!

Maybe the W series isn't that bad after all...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:54 am 
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Battle - you need to use Spoilers!

Good new about Chadwick, that's pretty strong results. The question as always though is how good is the opposition? None of the drivers she is behind have really proven top-flight records in other series. Joey Alders hasn't raced any other single seaters (karting to Asian F3) , Doohan has done a bit of F4 with unremakable results, Mazepin has raced a fair bit with a high of 2nd in GP2.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:31 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
Races 14 & 15 saw Chadwick place 2nd both times and climb to 4th overall in the championship.

Given her slow start her improvement was impressive scoring 5 podiums in the last 6 races. She also lost a race win after the jump start penalty, I really didn't expect her to be that competitive!

Maybe the W series isn't that bad after all...


Depends what you're comparing it too. None of the drivers are anywhere near good enough for F3 or F2. Looking at the Asian F3 results, it seems Chadwick only achieved podiums and pushed up the order then a number of better drivers dropped out, halfway through the season. Looking at the drivers she did beat, Pietro Fittipaldi achieved very little in Europe and the rest of the grid is all a bit 'meh... who?'

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:27 pm 
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Turns out I was wrong, Chadwick actually finished on top of the podium in race 14 as the guy ahead of her was not eligible for points having won the series last year. She gained 10 super license points for finishing 4th in the series, that won't do her any harm in the future.
Banana Man wrote:
Depends what you're comparing it too. None of the drivers are anywhere near good enough for F3 or F2. Looking at the Asian F3 results, it seems Chadwick only achieved podiums and pushed up the order then a number of better drivers dropped out, halfway through the season. Looking at the drivers she did beat, Pietro Fittipaldi achieved very little in Europe and the rest of the grid is all a bit 'meh... who?'
We'll see whether your assessment is correct as the fastest guy in this series, Jack Doohan, is racing in the FIA F3 championship this year with HWA. I reckon he could win a race or two. As for her benefitting from faster drivers dropping out, it's clear that you haven't analysed the results, the fastest drivers in the series have been there all the time, for me, the key observation is that at the first weekend (races 1-3) Chadwick was 2s off the pace, by the last weekend she was 0.2s off the pace. That's a promising learning curve in anybody's book


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:12 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
Race 13 of the series, held in Thailand saw Doohan dominate before a last lap puncture relegated him down the field, Alders inheriting the win with Chadwick, 3rd on the road promoted to second after Mazepin was, penalised for his antics during their last lap battle. Chadwick's fastest lap was within a few hundredths of Alders.

It's noticeable how a few drivers have been penalised for questionable driving in the series, it seems the stewards are able to administer penalties to the letter of the law while that seemingly was often not the case in F1 last year.

Th difference perhaps being that none of these drivers are able to apply the political pressure we see in F1?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:21 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
Race 13 of the series, held in Thailand saw Doohan dominate before a last lap puncture relegated him down the field, Alders inheriting the win with Chadwick, 3rd on the road promoted to second after Mazepin was, penalised for his antics during their last lap battle. Chadwick's fastest lap was within a few hundredths of Alders.

Chadwick's done well in the series, it makes a change not seeing a woman running around near the back, however she's wasn't exactly racing against the creme de la creme.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:33 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
Turns out I was wrong, Chadwick actually finished on top of the podium in race 14 as the guy ahead of her was not eligible for points having won the series last year. She gained 10 super license points for finishing 4th in the series, that won't do her any harm in the future.
Banana Man wrote:
Depends what you're comparing it too. None of the drivers are anywhere near good enough for F3 or F2. Looking at the Asian F3 results, it seems Chadwick only achieved podiums and pushed up the order then a number of better drivers dropped out, halfway through the season. Looking at the drivers she did beat, Pietro Fittipaldi achieved very little in Europe and the rest of the grid is all a bit 'meh... who?'
We'll see whether your assessment is correct as the fastest guy in this series, Jack Doohan, is racing in the FIA F3 championship this year with HWA. I reckon he could win a race or two. As for her benefitting from faster drivers dropping out, it's clear that you haven't analysed the results, the fastest drivers in the series have been there all the time, for me, the key observation is that at the first weekend (races 1-3) Chadwick was 2s off the pace, by the last weekend she was 0.2s off the pace. That's a promising learning curve in anybody's book

I think it's 8 F1 super license points for finishing 4th?

Drivers like Jake Hughes and Sasha Fernandez have dropped out of the series while last year's champion is ineligible for points and often finishes in front of Chadwick, not always though.

There's basically only 9 cars competing at the end, it's a far cry from the 30, mostly competitive drivers, we are going to be seeing competing in F3 this season, the F1 super license points that are being given out are a bit of a gift.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:30 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Joey Alders hasn't raced any other single seaters (karting to Asian F3) , Doohan has done a bit of F4 with unremakable results, Mazepin has raced a fair bit with a high of 2nd in GP2.


Alders was in single seaters in 2018 as well - German F4, mediocre results.
Mazepin was 2nd in the last year of GP3, otherwise very mediocre results.
Doohan also did the Euroformula Open last year, again mediocre despite not a greatly talented driver field.

And Sasahara also did a few years in Europe in which he wasn't really convincing.

A lot of people are wanting this to happen for Chadwick, but I still cannot see it. She is basically getting some OK results in mediocre series. Real F1 hopefuls would pretty much dominate in fields like the W Series or Asian F3, or a second year in British F3 (if not the first).

I've said it a number of times, she is decent, but a man with those results wouldn't be talked about as being a future contender for an F1 seat.

Now get her in F3 and let her really prove herself. But the fact that she isn't being offered a seat isn't "unfair", it's just that sponsors and teams look beyond the emotions and look at the results. And if you assess those, like I did above, then it's far from a convincing story. If Williams really did believe in her, she would have been in an F3 seat this year.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:45 am 
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mds wrote:
A lot of people are wanting this to happen for Chadwick, but I still cannot see it. She is basically getting some OK results in mediocre series. Real F1 hopefuls would pretty much dominate in fields like the W Series or Asian F3, or a second year in British F3 (if not the first).

I've said it a number of times, she is decent, but a man with those results wouldn't be talked about as being a future contender for an F1 seat.
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote...

Doesn't alter the fact that she improved dramatically during the 15 race series, from circulating with Calderon to racing at the front and demonstrating far more speed & race craft than I gave her credit for before the series.

I'm now looking forward to seeing what she can do in a competitive series rather than anticipating her being embarrassed!
pokerman wrote:
I think it's 8 F1 super license points for finishing 4th?
According to Reuters and the F3 Asia site, it's 10 - Alders got 18 for winning.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:16 pm 
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mds wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Joey Alders hasn't raced any other single seaters (karting to Asian F3) , Doohan has done a bit of F4 with unremakable results, Mazepin has raced a fair bit with a high of 2nd in GP2.


Alders was in single seaters in 2018 as well - German F4, mediocre results.
Mazepin was 2nd in the last year of GP3, otherwise very mediocre results.
Doohan also did the Euroformula Open last year, again mediocre despite not a greatly talented driver field.

And Sasahara also did a few years in Europe in which he wasn't really convincing.

A lot of people are wanting this to happen for Chadwick, but I still cannot see it. She is basically getting some OK results in mediocre series. Real F1 hopefuls would pretty much dominate in fields like the W Series or Asian F3, or a second year in British F3 (if not the first).

I've said it a number of times, she is decent, but a man with those results wouldn't be talked about as being a future contender for an F1 seat.

Now get her in F3 and let her really prove herself. But the fact that she isn't being offered a seat isn't "unfair", it's just that sponsors and teams look beyond the emotions and look at the results. And if you assess those, like I did above, then it's far from a convincing story. If Williams really did believe in her, she would have been in an F3 seat this year.

I would just disagree with your last sentence I think it makes good sense for her to compete in the 'W' series because of the F1 super license points on offer, last season really was little more than a demo year with only the prize money on offer.

If she wins the title again because of the F1 super license grading she then has to leave the series but she will have won $1M in prize money enough to buy a top drive in F3, although she may have spent some of that racing in F3 Asia.

She then finds herself with 25 F1 super license points over halfway to a F1 super license, she could compete again next year in F3 Asia getting some more F1 super license points and then take part in F1 FP1 sessions with Williams gaining up to 10 F1 super license points.

It's possible she could get her F1 super license without even competing in F3 and could find herself with a F1 seat if there's a big enough will to see a woman in F1, but without proving herself in the hotbed of F3 she surely would crash and burn in F1.

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Last edited by pokerman on Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:17 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
mds wrote:
A lot of people are wanting this to happen for Chadwick, but I still cannot see it. She is basically getting some OK results in mediocre series. Real F1 hopefuls would pretty much dominate in fields like the W Series or Asian F3, or a second year in British F3 (if not the first).

I've said it a number of times, she is decent, but a man with those results wouldn't be talked about as being a future contender for an F1 seat.
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote...

Doesn't alter the fact that she improved dramatically during the 15 race series, from circulating with Calderon to racing at the front and demonstrating far more speed & race craft than I gave her credit for before the series.

I'm now looking forward to seeing what she can do in a competitive series rather than anticipating her being embarrassed!
pokerman wrote:
I think it's 8 F1 super license points for finishing 4th?
According to Reuters and the F3 Asia site, it's 10 - Alders got 18 for winning.

Fair enough I probably was thinking of the 'W' series.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:28 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote...

Doesn't alter the fact that she improved dramatically during the 15 race series, from circulating with Calderon to racing at the front and demonstrating far more speed & race craft than I gave her credit for before the series.

I'm now looking forward to seeing what she can do in a competitive series rather than anticipating her being embarrassed!


Well yes, she's not being embarassed, hasn't been in any series she's driven in so that does account for something. And she did improve a lot during the F3 Asia season.

She's not doing badly at all, it's just that people are attributing way way waaaaaaaaaaaay too much importance to her feats.

I hope she gets to F3 and can mix it, but I'm not really expecting her to be at the very front. Much less in F2, if and when she gets there.

But I'll let her prove me wrong and I'll be glad if she does :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:32 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I would just disagree with your last sentence I think it makes good sense for her to compete in the 'W' series because of the F1 super license points on offer, last season really was little more than a demo year with only the prize money on offer.

If she wins the title again because of the F1 super license grading she then has to leave the series but she will have won $1M in prize money enough to buy a top drive in F3, although she may have spent some of that racing in F3 Asia.

She then finds herself with 25 F1 super license points over halfway to a F1 super license, she could compete again next year in F3 Asia getting some more F1 super license points and then take part in F1 FP1 sessions with Williams gaining up to 10 F1 super license points.

It's possible she could get her F1 super license without even competing in F3 and could find herself with a F1 seat if there's a big enough will to see a woman in F1, but without proving herself in the hotbed of F3 she surely would crash and burn in F1.


Your last sentence is the key here. Your entire post makes a lot of sense if the goal is to get to F1 at all costs and it doesn't matter what happens when she gets there.

On the other hand if she is to be a valuable addition to F1, then W Series is just a side step and not a necessary step on the way to F1. Because in that case it doesn't really add anything. She would still have to prove herself in F3 and/or F2. If she cannot get the necessary SL points in those categories, she surely won't be a good candidate for F1.

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