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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Based on the feedback in this thread, I decided to come up with the following graph that captures the gap of the top 8 finishers to the race leader on every lap in seconds. The race leader's gap obviously will be 0 seconds to himself for each lap. I did not consider all 24 drivers as the graph gets messy and difficult to read and their lines are usually much farther off the leader.

If you think this graph is useful, please leave a comment so that I may prepare and include it from next race onwards along with my other graph that I have been preparing so far.

If you have any other feedback and suggestions, please let me know so that I may consider working on it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Thanks Chinki!

I really like it!

Can we please have 8 different colours - to identify drivers by colour rather than doubling up? that would be even greater!

cheers
pear-shaped pete


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:38 pm 
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pear-shaped pete wrote:
Thanks Chinki!

I really like it!

Can we please have 8 different colours - to identify drivers by colour rather than doubling up? that would be even greater!

cheers
pear-shaped pete


Will do from the next race onwards - for sure :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:43 pm 
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I like this idea, much better than my old idea. Very clear and informative graph.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:45 pm 
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Yes I like it

I never fully understood the other graph but I like this one as it's easy to follow

Maybe regarding colours match them to cars/helmets? to use the key less?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:32 am 
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I actually love this chart. It gives a really good representation of how the race unfolded, and is certainly a lot easier to look at and immediately understand than the other chart. For instance, being able to see Webber holding the gap to the front pretty consistently for about ten laps after his first stop, right until Perez and Kimi slid back into him, at which point their slower pace (and his inability to get ahead/willingness to wait for them to stop) started losing him half a second a lap. Then once they had both pitted, he went back to holding a pretty consistent gap to the front. Obviously you get a sense of that from watching the race, but when you have it in this form, it's a lot clearer.

Looking forward to seeing these after each race :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:39 am 
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Great chart, but there needs to be some considerations. Nico was saving fuel at times? Etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:23 am 
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nice chart. i like it :thumbup:


any chance you could put some boobs on it anywhere?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:48 am 
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Thanks Chinki. That is a great graph and gives so much information. To be honest I didn't really like the other graph but this one is fantastic. You can very easily see even small nuances in drivers relative pace. And the effect of the tyres this year can be starkly seen. Looked forward to this after every race now.

Incredible to see how much time people lost behind Raikonnen.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:15 am 
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Makes you realise how fortunate Alonso was that the race wasn't a few laps longer.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:32 am 
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This is excellent. I would like to see how the backmarkers faired too out of curiousity. And maybe boobs as a background..... :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:45 am 
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Interesting to see what Perez was the fastest car one the last 3rd of the distance, if he had'nt been struck behind Rosberg for so long he should have caught Grosjean and even Hamilton probably.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:47 am 
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We've already seen one boob... Alonso staying out.

Great graph.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:53 am 
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Thanks. I think it further explains why Ferrari and RBR stayed out in the first place...

If you look at lap 50 onwards. Look at where Hamilton feeds out and look where Grosjean is. I would guess he is somewhere in the region of 2-3 seconds behind which incidentally, was near enough the time that Alonso was behind Hamilton. That meant that if Ferrari pitted they would have came out practically alongside Grosjean, and with the Lotus's top speed advantage over the Ferrari, it would have been difficult to pass even on fresher tires.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:26 am 
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I prefer this graph to the average faster lap one you produce, its easier to draw conclusions from. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:44 am 
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I like this..

It makes a lot of sense, and gives interesting insight.

good work.

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:51 am 
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Like everyone else, I like this.

Out of interest, was Hamilton easing it home at the very end or were his tires going off and GroJo catching him?

Either way, very interesting graph. I like Hamilton's massive drop back then resurgence when he went to the SuperSofts. Good work, thanks for compiling the data into this.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:34 pm 
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:thumbup: top graph

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:44 pm 
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mac_d wrote:
Like everyone else, I like this.

Out of interest, was Hamilton easing it home at the very end or were his tires going off and GroJo catching him?

Either way, very interesting graph. I like Hamilton's massive drop back then resurgence when he went to the SuperSofts. Good work, thanks for compiling the data into this.



Hamilton was definitely easing off in the last laps. He did a 1:17.9 on lap 66, after which Grosjean was within 4 seconds for the first time. So then he put in a quicker lap - 1:17.3 - to increase the gap again (4.2s). The last 3 laps he knew he could slow down to bring it home (1:17.7, 1:18.1, 1:19.2). He was on prime tyres at this point which were only 20 laps old. The previous set lasted him 33 laps with a heavier car.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Looking at the graph a few things stand out to me

The amazing amount of ups and downs - very few drivers had constant gaps (level lines) at any point in the race.

Grosjean virtually didnt pass one car that wasn't in the pits getting tyres! Alonso at the end and Webber on an outlap excepted. An enormous example of tyre management to have great pace after 50 laps on the same rubber.

Perez's pass on Rosberg lap 59? is critical. once released he soars like an eagle!

cheers
pear-shaped pete


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:50 pm 
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:thumbup:

Could you extend it to the whole grid for Valencia? :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
:thumbup:

Could you extend it to the whole grid for Valencia? :)



It'd get too complicated with so many traces to follow

It'd be better if you did lets say a front running graph. A midfield, and a backmarker

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:58 pm 
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The feedback is positive and encouraging and I will include this graph from next race onwards. Thanks folks 8)

Explorer1800 wrote:
This is excellent. I would like to see how the backmarkers faired too out of curiousity. And maybe boobs as a background..... :D


Here goes on your request. I have included 10 drivers here (P9 - P17 + Schumacher) and left out the rest. The main reason again is to make this graph as readable as possible.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Sorry Chinki,

but I think also just the two lines of "team mate battle" would be fascinating as a set. Perfect


(well JB wouldn't want to see the Canadian graph)


cheers
pear-shaped pete


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:12 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
I like this idea, much better than my old idea. Very clear and informative graph.

Thanks 8)

Rocket_Red wrote:
Maybe regarding colours match them to cars/helmets? to use the key less?

Hmm, many drivers can have the same helmet color and we know that 2 cars from the same team have the same color. It may not be easy but I will see what can be done.

zyphro wrote:
Great chart, but there needs to be some considerations. Nico was saving fuel at times? Etc.

Hmm, I not sure I follow what you mean :?

Wotto wrote:
any chance you could put some boobs on it anywhere?

Wott :o

Balibari wrote:
Makes you realise how fortunate Alonso was that the race wasn't a few laps longer.

One lap more would have been enough to lose 3 more places 8O

mac_d wrote:
Out of interest, was Hamilton easing it home at the very end or were his tires going off and GroJo catching him?

Hmm this graph by itself will not answer that question but then that is what we are here for.... to debate :idea:

RunningMan wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
:thumbup:

Could you extend it to the whole grid for Valencia? :)



It'd get too complicated with so many traces to follow

It'd be better if you did lets say a front running graph. A midfield, and a backmarker

I agree that 3 different graphs is likely a better answer even though it takes me 15 minutes more to prepare them. The problem with taking the entire field in one shot is that this graph will have much lesser readability.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Now that really is an excellent graph.

You can really see clearly the extent to which drivers are being held up, how quickly they can switch on tires, when they are conserving tires/fuel, how their pace varies over the course of a stint.

Makes me feel bad for all the flack you got for the previous graphs :) but you've really nailed it this time. I'd love to see one of these for each race.

Suggestions wise, maybe you could include all drivers by keeping the scale the same but extending the y axis?

It would then be just as clean as it is now but include all drivers.
This would make it a great big long image, but it wouldn't really matter as you don't need to see the whole graph to see a drivers relative pace to those around him.
It would be very interesting to see how drivers lower down the field are doing over the course of a race.

Also, I know it's pretty obvious from the graph, but marking the pit stops would be nice.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Very nice graph.
Much better than the average lap time graph.

Just one thing: I'm colorblind so it's hard for me to see some of the lines against the white background (Hamilton's line for example is very difficult for me to see)
The second graph you made with Hulkenberg in it is 10x easier for me to see because of the better contrast.
Just something to think about


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:20 pm 
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pear-shaped pete wrote:
Sorry Chinki,

but I think also just the two lines of "team mate battle" would be fascinating as a set. Perfect


(well JB wouldn't want to see the Canadian graph)


cheers
pear-shaped pete


Suggestion taken, I am actually finding it quite fascinating to work out these graphs 8)

Here is a sample of what I think you were asking for. So which of the two below do you prefer or did you have in mind when you made the request?

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:27 pm 
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The first one. That essentially has the gap to his teammate in it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:21 pm 
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I don't post terribly much anymore, but your graphs and stuff are one of the reasons I keep reading the forums here. Absolutely fantastic stuff! I really like how you seem to be coming up with newer and different ways of analyzing the lap times. You're very good at it and should absolutely keep it up!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Based on some requests for a single consolidated graph and a few other comments, here is the attempt. Things to note:
1. I have not included cars for the three GP2 teams.
2. I have trimmed off the graph at 80 seconds for better readability.
3. I have kind of followed a color scheme based on driver pairings, hope this is better.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:13 pm 
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chinki wrote:
1. I have not included cars for the three GP2 teams.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:15 pm 
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AWESOME CHINKI!
I've had a sleep and checked in and now I see these beautiful graphs! Awesome. Thanks.

I agree very much with your choices, absolutely agree with your refinements of total field-big picture graphs eg no gp2, 80 sec cutoff etc. I wouldn't even have tried it (thinking-expecting un-readability) but it is interesting to see the result.

And the teammate graphs with gap to leader - excellent.

I think your graphs should/will be the starting point for proper reflection and analysis of each race from here on in! I suppose some races will be harder to decipher than others, and I think a consistent colour coding is really the only tweak to work on! Eg We know each race Alonso is red dot for example, Vettel dark blue triangle ...... and that doesnt change!

Great work - Thanks so much

pear-shaped pete


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:25 pm 
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Not changing my post above , but I've noticed that the teammate graphs are on different time scales.

Whilst I respect understand your decision to go for the scale to show the differences relevant to each battle, part of me wants to see them on the same scale. Maybe a common 60 second Y axis for all battles? I know some individual graphs will be harder to see, but I think the "common scale" will better show the evenness/ size of whupping !

Wow I'm just ask ask ask!

pear-shaped pete


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:43 am 
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pear-shaped pete wrote:
Not changing my post above , but I've noticed that the teammate graphs are on different time scales.

Whilst I respect understand your decision to go for the scale to show the differences relevant to each battle, part of me wants to see them on the same scale. Maybe a common 60 second Y axis for all battles? I know some individual graphs will be harder to see, but I think the "common scale" will better show the evenness/ size of whupping !

Wow I'm just ask ask ask!

pear-shaped pete

So I guess you were suggesting something like this. I increased the scale to 100 seconds for all teams to get broader coverage. What do you think?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:56 am 
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When you look at the Lewis Vs Jenson chart, you can see why he looked so down and confused in the post race interviews.

I hope we don't see too many more like that..

great work chinki by the way. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
When you look at the Lewis Vs Jenson chart, you can see why he looked so down and confused in the post race interviews.

I hope we don't see too many more like that..

great work chinki by the way. :thumbup:


The strange thing is that even after his second pit stop, Jenson was dropping away from Lewis at an alarming rate on a fresh set with no car holding him up.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Chinki. Thanks!



Interesting looking at team mate comparisons and how the diverge. Some split early, some split after pitstops etc. Very cool. Enjoyed looking at all of these.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Agree with everyone else on the awesomeness of these graphs. Thanks!

My one suggestion regarding the colour coding would be instead of the key (or as well as), to have the drivers' initials at the end of their lines to make it easier to see who's who. Think that would make it a bit clearer. Still love them though!


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