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 Post subject: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:26 pm 
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Is there another pair of drivers who dislike each other so obviously?

Drivers get angry in the heat of the moment, but these two seem to hold a genuine grudge.

Silverstone 2014: constant whining and bickering about who is exceeding track limits, Vettel complains about how Alonso is running him off the circuit. I don’t ever remember more complaining in any race between two drivers.

Abu Dhabi 2015: Alonso holds up Vettel when he is being lapped. Vettel says on the team radio: “I mean he must really hate me, I don’t know what’s wrong with him. I’m losing a second just because of that.”

Brazil 2016: Vettel overtakes Alonso and shoves him off the circuit. Alonso responds with an angry team radio.

Malaysia 2017: Vettel is chasing Ricciardo, then Alonso holds up Vettel massively when being lapped. Vettel says on the team radio “come on Fernando, you’re better than that”.

China 2018: Alonso overtakes Vettel and runs him off the circuit completely, Vettel responds with an angry radio message.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:49 am 
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Not a fan of fireworks or bad blood between drivers but I really wish Fernando was more in a place to cause Sebastian to have to deal with him.

OTOH I am glad that Sebastian and Lewis seem to genuinely enjoy racing each other. The Baku 2017 incident is the only time any serious off track acrimony was evidenced between the two champions that I can remember.

Would be great if all the Merc, Ferrari, and RBR drivers had to come to terms with Fernando.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:22 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Would be great if all the Merc, Ferrari, and RBR drivers had to come to terms with Fernando.

I don’t see anything to suggest that they don’t get along with Fernando.

Alonso seems to have a problem with specifically Vettel and only Vettel.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:51 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Is there another pair of drivers who dislike each other so obviously?

Drivers get angry in the heat of the moment, but these two seem to hold a genuine grudge.

Silverstone 2014: constant whining and bickering about who is exceeding track limits, Vettel complains about how Alonso is running him off the circuit. I don’t ever remember more complaining in any race between two drivers.

Abu Dhabi 2015: Alonso holds up Vettel when he is being lapped. Vettel says on the team radio: “I mean he must really hate me, I don’t know what’s wrong with him. I’m losing a second just because of that.”

Brazil 2016: Vettel overtakes Alonso and shoves him off the circuit. Alonso responds with an angry team radio.

Malaysia 2017: Vettel is chasing Ricciardo, then Alonso holds up Vettel massively when being lapped. Vettel says on the team radio “come on Fernando, you’re better than that”.

China 2018: Alonso overtakes Vettel and runs him off the circuit completely, Vettel responds with an angry radio message.

Lewis cried about the same kind of move put on him by Max. I'm no fan of these moves, but Lewis and Seb crying about them is pretty rich considering it's an accepted move that happens multiple times in every GP and they themselves have pulled it on people more times than I could count.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:53 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Not a fan of fireworks or bad blood between drivers but I really wish Fernando was more in a place to cause Sebastian to have to deal with him.

OTOH I am glad that Sebastian and Lewis seem to genuinely enjoy racing each other. The Baku 2017 incident is the only time any serious off track acrimony was evidenced between the two champions that I can remember.

Would be great if all the Merc, Ferrari, and RBR drivers had to come to terms with Fernando.

Agree completely.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:50 am 
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Magnusson and Hulkenberg are also not best buds. Did you see them on lap 1 in Bahrain. Both had pushed the other off the track by turn 4.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:11 am 
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Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:44 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.

Add to this that I think Alonso believes Vettel is an unworthy 4-time champion. He's made a number of comments to that effect, from saying he was racing against Newey back when Vettel was winning titles to more recently saying it was odd for Vettel to have more titles than Lewis. He's bothered much more by the fact that Vettel has more titles than that Lewis does.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:48 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Would be great if all the Merc, Ferrari, and RBR drivers had to come to terms with Fernando.

I don’t see anything to suggest that they don’t get along with Fernando.

Alonso seems to have a problem with specifically Vettel and only Vettel.


Only now that Jolyon Palmer has left :lol:

Why would Alonso hate Vettel? I can’t remember a specific incident or moment where they had a big issue in the past.

Maybe Alonso just holds a grudge from being soundly beaten during the Vettel/Red Bull sweep?

Maybe it’s not Vettel at all, but Ferrari ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:50 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.


I'm not so sure. Vettel isn't the reason Alonso isn't a four-time WDC - Alonso is the reason. If he hadn't burnt his bridges with McLaren after one season, wasted two years with Renault, and joined the only (at the time) remaining top-team with a free seat just as the Red Bull period of dominance was beginning he might have more than two titles to his name. That being said, Alonso in my opinion deserved the 2012 title so I could imagine him being a bit jilted at having lost out to Vettel on that one.

I'm not so sure his lack of success at McLaren is a reason for him to dislike Vettel specifically, though I can understand the frustration at leaving a struggling Ferrari just as they take a step up.

In my view Alonso is and always has been a driver who likes to be the dominant figure on a racetrack. I think he likes to push the limits especially when he's up against a driver he knows is world class as well, because he knows there's respect and they would give it back to him given the opportunity. I wouldn't be surprised if the frustration of the last couple of years at McLaren have turned him to taking a slightly more elbows-out approach to close racing, but I think any top driver would get the same treatment if they came up against him.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.


Alonso may also feel that he dragged that Ferrari to places it wasn't supposed to be at times during his stint, only for Vettel to come in and get a really good car by all standards.

I seriously don't want to think that a mature driver like Alonso thinks like that, or at least lets it out like that, it feels very petty. He has Mediterranean temperament, which is fiery I know, but he has shown to be bigger than this, what with his reconciliation with Hamilton and McLaren. He is not a kid, maybe this move was a genuine misjudgement after all?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:05 am 
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Alonso lost two championships to Vettel in the last round of a season. But I'm pretty sure something snapped within Alonso in Brazil '12. He was very close to that elusive third title, and there it went away from him (and maybe after T4 Alonso expected the title to be up for grabbing).

His thousand-yard stare after the race (which he held for seconds) was telling.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:29 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.
I would have thought that Spygate was at least as important in keeping Alonso out of title number 3 as anything that came later. He is far from my favourite driver, but you can't honestly point to Alonso and say he didn't drive his heart out while with Ferrari. And that is coming from someone who holds Räikkönen in far higher regard than Alonso - including while being treated as a number 2 driver by them.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:48 pm 
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No one has come out and said it in this thread yet so I'll say it. I think Alonso (and some other drivers) thinks that Seb is a very good but not a great talent. Alonso sees Seb as a guy who has great timing and has been in the right places at the right times in his career. He feels that Vettel has posted bigger career stats than him despite being a lesser driver than him and that Vettel's name will loom larger in the record books than his own in the future despite the "fact" that he's not as good of a driver.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:19 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
No one has come out and said it in this thread yet so I'll say it. I think Alonso (and some other drivers) thinks that Seb is a very good but not a great talent. Alonso sees Seb as a guy who has great timing and has been in the right places at the right times in his career. He feels that Vettel has posted bigger career stats than him despite being a lesser driver than him and that Vettel's name will loom larger in the record books than his own in the future despite the "fact" that he's not as good of a driver.
I think you may be right, but it still doesn't say much in Alonso's favour that he'd take such a schoolboy grudge against someone just for the fact that he's (in his eyes) not as talented as him


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
No one has come out and said it in this thread yet so I'll say it. I think Alonso (and some other drivers) thinks that Seb is a very good but not a great talent. Alonso sees Seb as a guy who has great timing and has been in the right places at the right times in his career. He feels that Vettel has posted bigger career stats than him despite being a lesser driver than him and that Vettel's name will loom larger in the record books than his own in the future despite the "fact" that he's not as good of a driver.
I think you may be right, but it still doesn't say much in Alonso's favour that he'd take such a schoolboy grudge against someone just for the fact that he's (in his eyes) not as talented as him

Yeah, racing drivers tend to be pretty self-obsessed people. Vettel is a bit of an outlier in that regard. I always got the impression that he was really more of a normal guy in terms of his mentality.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:47 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.

Maybe Alonso just thinks Vettel's a d!ck? Sometimes people clash and just dont get on.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:12 pm 
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angrypirate wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.

Maybe Alonso just thinks Vettel's a d!ck? Sometimes people clash and just dont get on.

Yeah, I was thinking the same. Maybe they are genuinely not getting on. Not that they have to be hostile to each other...


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
No one has come out and said it in this thread yet so I'll say it. I think Alonso (and some other drivers) thinks that Seb is a very good but not a great talent. Alonso sees Seb as a guy who has great timing and has been in the right places at the right times in his career. He feels that Vettel has posted bigger career stats than him despite being a lesser driver than him and that Vettel's name will loom larger in the record books than his own in the future despite the "fact" that he's not as good of a driver.
I think you may be right, but it still doesn't say much in Alonso's favour that he'd take such a schoolboy grudge against someone just for the fact that he's (in his eyes) not as talented as him

Oh come on. There are schoolboy grudges up and down the paddock, in the car and out. F1 was built on fairy cakes like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:02 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.

I think Alonso's head might well explode. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
No one has come out and said it in this thread yet so I'll say it. I think Alonso (and some other drivers) thinks that Seb is a very good but not a great talent. Alonso sees Seb as a guy who has great timing and has been in the right places at the right times in his career. He feels that Vettel has posted bigger career stats than him despite being a lesser driver than him and that Vettel's name will loom larger in the record books than his own in the future despite the "fact" that he's not as good of a driver.
I think you may be right, but it still doesn't say much in Alonso's favour that he'd take such a schoolboy grudge against someone just for the fact that he's (in his eyes) not as talented as him


Ever work with someone who gets promoted over you despite, in your own eyes, being inferior at the job? Certainly winds me up a treat. Similar thing at play here I imagine, hard to knock him for it, it's a very human trait.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:31 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
No one has come out and said it in this thread yet so I'll say it. I think Alonso (and some other drivers) thinks that Seb is a very good but not a great talent. Alonso sees Seb as a guy who has great timing and has been in the right places at the right times in his career. He feels that Vettel has posted bigger career stats than him despite being a lesser driver than him and that Vettel's name will loom larger in the record books than his own in the future despite the "fact" that he's not as good of a driver.

I said that already. I do think it's true.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:45 pm 
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I think it's a bit of everything mentioned above tbh. It's been going on since at least the mid point of 2010 any time they are near each other on track you can see they both want to make a statement.

I do think if Alonso had won 2012 it would've calmed it down, they'd have come out of it 1 a piece and both been 3x winners so what followed with Alonso leaving Ferrari wouldn't have stung as much and I think Alonso would be a bit fairer in his assessment of Seb's skills.

As it was it just made it worse in Alonso's eyes clearly. It's a bit easier for Seb to be more pragmatic when's he's the one that got '10 +'12 and who got a competitive Ferrari and was lapping Alonso every race for 3 or 4 seasons.

That's going to sting a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:08 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
angrypirate wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Two reasons why I think Alonso probably dislikes Vettel:

1. Vettel is the reason why Alonso is not a 4 time world champion.

2. Vettel’s move to Ferrari has been a bigger success than Alonso’s move to McLaren.

If Vettel wins a WDC with Ferrari, Alonso might just lose the plot.

Maybe Alonso just thinks Vettel's a d!ck? Sometimes people clash and just dont get on.

Yeah, I was thinking the same. Maybe they are genuinely not getting on. Not that they have to be hostile to each other...


Seems like they get on fine in the press conferences.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso and Vettel
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:17 am 
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I wonder would this go some way to explaining Nando's attitude to & apparent dislike of Seb especially under blue flag conditions.

It might also shine some light on Seb's 2014 season.


https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ver-alonso

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