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 Post subject: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:09 pm 
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In the wake of the seemingly subjective article on the PF1 homepage, I decided to make a genuine F1 teammate wars thread based on actual results. I'm open to correction on the basis of any mistakes, and you're welcome to do the other teams.

Red Bull Racing

Quali: Vettel 11-9 Webber
Race: Vettel 13-7 Webber

Vettel 24-16 Webber

Scuderia Ferrari

Quali: Alonso 17-3 Massa
Race: Alonso 18-2 Massa

Alonso 35-5 Massa

Lotus F1 Team

Quali: Grosjean 10-10 Raikkonen
Race: Raikkonen 18-2 Grosjean

Raikkonen 28-12 Grosjean

McLaren Mercedes

Quali: Hamilton 16-4 Button
Race: Hamilton 11-9 Button

Hamilton 26-14 Button

Mercedes

Quali: Schumacher 10-10 Rosberg
Race: Rosberg 10-10 Schumacher

Schumacher 20-20 Rosberg

Sauber F1 Team

Quali: Perez 11-9 Kobayashi
Race: Kobayashi 11-9 Perez

Perez 20-20 Kobayashi

Williams F1 Team

Quali: Maldonado 18-2 Senna
Race: Senna 11-9 Maldonado

Maldonado 27-13 Senna

Force India

Quali: Hulkenberg 12-8 Di Resta
Race: Hulkenberg 11-9 Di Resta

Hulkenberg 23-17 Di Resta

Scuderia Torro Rosso

Quali: Ricciardo 16-4 Vergne
Race: Ricciardo 12-8 Vergne

Ricciardo 28-12 Vergne

HRT

Quali: De La Rosa 16-3 Karthikeyan
Race: De La Rosa 16-3 Karthikeyan

De La Rosa 32-6 Karthikeyan

HRT are 1 race short because DNQ at Australia.

Caterham

Quali: Kovalainen 13-7 Petrov
Race: Kovalainen 10-10 Petrov

Kovalainen 23-17 Petrov

Marussia

Quali: Glock 13-7 Pic
Race: Glock 13-7 Pic

Glock 26-14 Pic

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Last edited by Formula1Fan. on Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:01 am, edited 46 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
In the wake of the seemingly subjective article on the PF1 homepage, I decided to make a genuine F1 teammate wars thread based on actual results. I'm open to correction on the basis of any mistakes, and you're welcome to do the other teams (I think Ferrari is 9-0, 9-0 but didn't check).


Quali: Webber 5-4 Vettel
Race: Webber 5-4 Vettel

Quali: Alonso 9-0 Massa
Race: Alonso 9-0 Massa

Quali: Grosjean 6-3 Raikkonen
Race: Raikkonen 7-2 Grosjean

Quali: Hamilton 9-0 Button
Race: Hamilton 6-3 Button

Quali: Schumacher 5-4 Rosberg
Race: Rosberg 6-3 Schumacher

Quali: Kobayashi 6-3 Perez
Race: Perez 5-4 Kobayashi

Quali: Maldonado 7-2 Senna
Race: Senna 6-3 Maldonado


Interesting to note that the faster men at Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber and Williams haven't managed to convert it into race results (yes, yes I know Schumi was unlucky etc).



Define faster men. Quali?


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:27 pm 
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ManojHS wrote:
Define faster men. Quali?

ja man, those quick in quali tend to be quick in the race too but in those cases I mentioned poor strategy, poor overtaking and in some cases poor luck have all had an influence.

In short, it takes more than just speed to be a good driver.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:04 am 
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Torro Rosso

Quali: Ricciardo 8-1 Vergne
Race: Ricciardo 4-5 Vergne

Ricciardo 12-6 Vergne


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:11 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
In the wake of the seemingly subjective article on the PF1 homepage, I decided to make a genuine F1 teammate wars thread based on actual results. I'm open to correction on the basis of any mistakes, and you're welcome to do the other teams

As soon as you said that, I just read garbage. I have yet to disagree with PF1 team mate wars because they actually look at the whole race not just race result.

Technically MSC has had his butt handed to him but its not true because his results were affected by reliability more then any other driver this season.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:23 am 
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Sebastian and Webber score it's so surprising, who could have guessed in January.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:33 am 
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Dan's_the_man wrote:
Torro Rosso

Quali: Ricciardo 8-1 Vergne
Race: Ricciardo 4-5 Vergne

Ricciardo 12-6 Vergne

Thanks Dan, added.

lonix2011 wrote:
As soon as you said that, I just read garbage. I have yet to disagree with PF1 team mate wars because they actually look at the whole race not just race result.

They allow subjectivity and personal bias to creep in. Moreover, while they will sometimes give a driver the nod over his teammate even if he doesn't finish the race due to a problem, they don't take into account problems in qualifying when assessing a race meaning one teammate has to start from the back. Ultimately, we should stick to real results otherwise you're looking at someone's opinion.

Quote:
Technically MSC has had his butt handed to him but its not true because his results were affected by reliability more then any other driver this season.

He hasn't really, as you can see above it's close between him and Nico overall (10-8), he has out-qualified Rosberg but has had some poor luck during races. Incidentally PF1 only have the Mercedes race stat 1 different to the official stat above anyway. The season is long, plenty of time for Schumi to turn that race statistic around.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:34 am 
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Any Caterham, HRT and Marussia fans willing to do their stats? :)

Incidentally, I will update these after every race so everyone can have the reference if they feel like viewing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:54 am 
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HRT

Quali : Pedro 8 - 0 Narain
Race : Pedro 7 - 1 Narain


HRT are 1 race short because DNQ at Australia.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:58 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
HRT

Quali : Pedro 8 - 0 Narain
Race : Pedro 7 - 1 Narain

HRT are 1 race short because DNQ at Australia.

Jeez, Karthikeyan is a star :) Thanks funky, added.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:20 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
HRT

Quali : Pedro 8 - 0 Narain
Race : Pedro 7 - 1 Narain

HRT are 1 race short because DNQ at Australia.

Jeez, Karthikeyan is a star :) Thanks funky, added.

Sure is, he is better than Massa ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:41 am 
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Here:
Caterham

Quali :Heikki - Petrov 7-2
Race :Heikki - Petrov 6-3

Marussia

Quali : Glock - Pic 6-3
Race : Glock - Pic 7-2


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:54 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
McLaren Mercedes

Quali: Hamilton 9-0 Button
Race: Hamilton 6-3 Button

Hamilton 15-3 Button

If it wasnt for Maldonado, that would read:
Hamilton 16-2 Button

Thats almost on par with Massa being destroyed by Alonso.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:43 pm 
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GeonyWalker wrote:
Here:
Caterham

Quali :Heikki - Petrov 7-2
Race :Heikki - Petrov 6-3

Marussia

Quali : Glock - Pic 6-3
Race : Glock - Pic 7-2

Cheers Geony :thumbup: , added.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Jiggs wrote:
If it wasnt for Maldonado, that would read:
Hamilton 16-2 Button

Thats almost on par with Massa being destroyed by Alonso.

Hamilton is hugely dominant this season however Button has done the unthinkable for Massa: beat his teammate in a race in which his teammate finished. Ferrari still aren't keen to re-sign Felipe.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Significant movements after Germany Qualifying:

* Vettel draws level with Webber in Quali 5-5
* Hulkenberg draws level with Di Resta in Quali 5-5
* Schumacher draws level with Rosberg in Quali 5-5
* Button finally pulls one back against Hamilton in Quali 9-1

I will update the numbers after the weekend's race

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Last edited by Formula1Fan. on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Kimi pulls back 1 more against Grosjean.
4-6 now


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Significant movements after Germany Qualifying:

* Vettel draws level with Webber in Quali 5-5
* Hulkenberg draws level with Di Resta in Quali 5-5
* Button finally pulls one back against Hamilton in Quali 9-1

I will update the numbers after the weekend's race

another thing that stood out for me, while there was blatent inconsistency around the entire field Vettel and Webber were both there performing to a high standard.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Get Massa out of that car.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:17 pm 
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nice thread


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Significant movements after German GP Race & Hungary Qualifying

* Vettel moves ahead of Webber both in quali and overall head to head
* Hulkenberg moves ahead of Di Resta in quali - I believe he has beaten PDR now in 4 straight sessions
* Alonso has stretched his ascendance to a now ridiculous figure of twenty-one to nil against Massa
* Pic has taken three straight sessions over Glock in the Marussia battle after being dominated for most of the season

Red Bull, Sauber and Force India drivers are all very close at 11-10. I will update again after the Hungarian GP, and as ever I welcome any corrections to the stats. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Massa returns to be confident in the second half of the season will return to be the pilot was excellent. He can make 3 or 4 podiums and I think won a race (probably Brazil), he is much closer to Alonso of what people believe and Alonso will not always have good days. Ferrari need to these days Massa.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:00 pm 
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After the 'blocking' incident, Vettel might beat Webber in the quali from now on


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:13 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Significant movements after German GP Race & Hungary Qualifying


* Hulkenberg moves ahead of Di Resta in quali - I believe he has beaten PDR now in 4 straight sessions


8O

PdR's stock is decreasing as each race goes on. Let's see how the race pans out for the Hulk.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:14 am 
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Crislack wrote:
Massa returns to be confident in the second half of the season will return to be the pilot was excellent. He can make 3 or 4 podiums and I think won a race (probably Brazil), he is much closer to Alonso of what people believe and Alonso will not always have good days. Ferrari need to these days Massa.

:thumbup:

Massa has the speed - he doesn't have the luck. Once everything falls into place, many will be shell-shocked.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:11 am 
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zyphro wrote:
Formula1Fan. wrote:
Significant movements after German GP Race & Hungary Qualifying


* Hulkenberg moves ahead of Di Resta in quali - I believe he has beaten PDR now in 4 straight sessions


8O

PdR's stock is decreasing as each race goes on. Let's see how the race pans out for the Hulk.


What is noticeable is that Nico can also drive a good lap on a single run when compared to Paul. Paul seems unable to lap strongly in a single lap. However, it's impressive as their quali & race finishing results are so evenly matched.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Significant movements after Hungarian GP

Vettel has opened up a mini-gap on Webber for the first time this season
Raikkonen has gone 9-2 up in races despite losing out again to his teammate in quali
Perez has drawn level with Kobayashi, now matching him in the overall stakes
Hulkenberg has drawn level with Di Resta, he has pulled him in and now looks the stronger driver
Senna stretches his race lead over Maldonado, barely believable considering Pastor is 9-2 up in quali
Pic is maintaining his charge on Glock

So, at the one month break point things are still relatively tight between teammates at Red Bull, Lotus, Sauber, Mercedes, Williams, Force India and Marussia.

The drivers who are clearly second best this year to date are Felipe Massa, Jenson Button, Jean-Eric Vergne, Narain Karthikeyan and Vitali Petrov

As ever open to any corrections.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:08 pm 
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LOL 22-0 this is basket?


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Significant movements after Spa Qualifying

* Webber draws even with Vettel in qualifying

* Schumacher draws level with Rosberg in quali

* Kobayashi extends his lead over Perez in quali and inches ahead overall

* Di Resta draws level with Hulkenberg on qualifying and goes ahead overall ending a dominating run for Nico

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:28 am 
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Significant movements after Spa Grand Prix

* FELIPE! Massa has finally broken his duck against Fernando Alonso, it was kind of by default but he'll take it, 23-1
* Raikkonen extends his race performance advantage over Grosjean to a dominating 10-2
* Despite Jenson Button trailing 17-7 overall and 10-2 in qualifying, he is surprisingly almost level with Lewis Hamilton in race performance, it's now 6-5
* Kobayashi levels his race statistics with Perez after the latter's retirement, a good 2-0 weekend for Kamui against his teammate

* Senna has doubled his race advantage over Maldonado now to 8-4, a ridiculous development considering Maldonado's 10-2 qualifying advantage
* Hulkenberg levels things up once again at FI aided by Di Resta's loss of DRS pre-race, at 12-12 the Force India pair are most evenly matched
* Frenchman Vergne has also squared things up at Torro Rosso coming in just ahead of his teammate

There is a pattern in some teams of the dominant qualifier in some teams (for whatever reasons) not consistently beating their teammate in races - Hamilton, Maldonado, Ricciardo and Kovalainen fall into this bracket

As ever, open to any corrections if errors are spotted.

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Last edited by Formula1Fan. on Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:10 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Significant movements after Spa Grand Prix

* FELIPE! Massa has finally broken his duck against Fernando Alonso, it was kind of by default but he'll take it, 23-1

This is why numbers don't mean anything.
Another example, Schumacher is faster than Rosberg in most GP this year, but look at the tally.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:23 am 
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ferdinand wrote:
This is why numbers don't mean anything.
Another example, Schumacher is faster than Rosberg in most GP this year, but look at the tally.

A few things:

(1) Over the course of a season patterns emerge from the numbers and we see which sessions drivers are strong or weak in comparison to teammates (i.e. quali or race)
(2) In order to finish first, one must first finish. Given the season he's had, I'm sure Fernando would be the first to agree.
(3) I would say these numbers do Schumacher more justice in relation to his team-mate than the world drivers standings where Rosberg has double the number of points.
(4) In a couple of season's time all people will refer to are are the numbers and the hard-luck stories will count for nothing (trust me as a Webber fan, I know!)
(5) It's just a bit of fun and a reference thread for those interested, not to be taken too seriously.

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Last edited by Formula1Fan. on Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:30 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:25 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
ferdinand wrote:
This is why numbers don't mean anything.
Another example, Schumacher is faster than Rosberg in most GP this year, but look at the tally.

A few things:

(1) Over the course of a season patterns emerge.
(1) In order to finish first, one must first finish. Given the season he's had, I'm sure Fernando would be the first to agree.
(2) I would say these numbers do Schumacher more justice in relation to his team-mate than the world drivers standings where Rosberg has double the number of points.
(3) In a couple of season's time all people will refer to are are the numbers and the hard-luck stories will count for nothing (trust me as a Webber fan, I know!)
(4) It's just a bit of fun and a reference thread for those interested, not to be taken too seriously.

Fully understood


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:57 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Significant movements after Spa Grand Prix

* FELIPE! Massa has finally broken his duck against Fernando Alonso, it was kind of by default but he'll take it, 23-1
* Raikkonen extends his race performance advantage over Grosjean to a dominating 10-2
* Despite Jenson Button trailing 17-7 overall and 10-2 in qualifying, he is surprisingly almost level with Lewis Hamilton in race performance, it's now 6-5
* Kobayashi levels his race statistics with Perez after the latter's retirement, a good 2-0 weekend for Kamui against his teammate

* Senna has doubled his race advantage over Maldonado now to 8-4, a ridiculous development considering Maldonado's 10-2 qualifying advantage
* Hulkenberg levels things up once again at FI aided by Di Resta's loss of DRS pre-race, at 12-12 the Force India pair are most evenly matched
* Frenchman Vergne has also squared things up at Torro Rosso coming in just ahead of his teammate

There is a pattern in some teams of the dominant qualifier in some teams (for whatever reasons) not consistently beating their teammate in races - Hamilton, Maldonado, Ricciardo and Kovalainen fall into this bracket

As ever, open to any corrections if errors are spotted.

Race performance 6-5 at McLaren?

How?
It's 8/4
If you count Lewis ( non fault)DNF s for Button

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:27 am 
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I guess the figures show that being fast over one lap and having a better race pace are two totally different ball games. and at the end the team needs more points... A driver might be quicker than his team mate in all quali sessions but if he cant change it into a better race position, its useless.... Hard luck, car breaking down, part failures, accidents are all part of the game... Bottom line is what the team earns... points lost due to any reason are points lost... so i would always consider the team mate with more points and better race pace as a better driver...

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Felipe gets one finally! Yeah boy!

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:53 pm 
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force india.. holy smokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Sabrina wrote:
Race performance 6-5 at McLaren?

How?
It's 8/4
If you count Lewis ( non fault)DNF s for Button

My count has Button finishing ahead of Hamilton in five races: Australia, China, Europe, Germany and Belgium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Formula_One_season However, you are right in that there is an error as it should be 7-5 to Hamilton not 6-5.

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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Quali doesn't matter, only the Race does, you don't wind championships by qualifying well and not finishing races.

The real story is Vettel has put himself right in there to win again and Kimi has scored more puts in the past handful of races than any one else and has points himself in the running now too, just like 2007.


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 Post subject: Re: Teammate Wars!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Miffy wrote:
Quali doesn't matter, only the Race does, you don't wind championships by qualifying well and not finishing races.

Nearly all the races this year have been won from the front row (83%), quali matters all right, massively so. However, this thread is about direct head to head competition between team-mates and qualifying is a major part of that.

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