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How long until Vettel is ahead of Räikkönen?
Poll ended at Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:05 pm
Start/first lap 44%  44%  [ 15 ]
first pit stop 26%  26%  [ 9 ]
second pit stop 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
final lap 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
KR stays ahead 24%  24%  [ 8 ]
else (please specify) 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 34
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Räikkönen beat Vettel in qualifying. Did *he* ever manage to stay ahead?

So, how long will it take tomorrow until Vettel is ahead?

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:16 pm 
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I think he'll get him at the start or through a DRS pass early.

I do think Kimi is better around here than Seb so it'll be tricky even if he gets ahead at the start as Kimi could be all over him. It'll be interesting to see what happens, not a big points difference between 2/3 so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't bother to engineer getting Seb ahead if Kimi was clearly quicker but it's a tight fight so who knows.

Wouldn't bother me if they did to be clear, I get it that in a tight fight every point matters and especially if you don't hold a car advantage to bank on which isn't looking the case for the time being at least.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:23 pm 
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I think Max will pass Kimi, let alone Seb! First corner probably


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:29 pm 
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If it doesn't happen on the first lap, it'll happen when Kimi gets switched to a dodgy strategy to let Seb past.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Räikkönen beat Vettel in qualifying. Did *he* ever manage to stay ahead?

So, how long will it take tomorrow until Vettel is ahead?

:lol:

You find your own question funny?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Räikkönen beat Vettel in qualifying. Did *he* ever manage to stay ahead?

So, how long will it take tomorrow until Vettel is ahead?

:lol:

You find your own question funny?


Yes!
Any problem with that?

Have fun! :lol: 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Nah, whatever works for you man!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Räikkönen beat Vettel in qualifying. Did *he* ever manage to stay ahead?

So, how long will it take tomorrow until Vettel is ahead?

:lol:


Hilarious post. I'm going to enjoy this thread. No way in the world Ferrari lets Kimi stay ahead of Vettel. He's a patsy at this point.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Räikkönen beat Vettel in qualifying. Did *he* ever manage to stay ahead?

So, how long will it take tomorrow until Vettel is ahead?

:lol:

Maybe like Lewis asked the team to move Bottas out of the way or slow down for him Vettel will do the same


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
If it doesn't happen on the first lap, it'll happen when Kimi gets switched to a dodgy strategy to let Seb past.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Early on I'd imagine, if not on lap 1 then before or during the first stops.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:10 am 
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Kimi won't have the pace to stay ahead of Vettel. Ferrari intervention or not.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:11 am 
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Ferrari will give it 2-3 laps if Vettel is not ahead on his own by then. If Kimi cant keep up with Hamilton and ends up slowing down Vettel in first 2-3 laps itself, then I can see team order coming through to let Vettel pass. And that will be right call. Too often this season Kimi simply fades in the race and cant keep up with the car he is chasing from top 3 teams. Cant afford to let Hamilton run away with it. So has to happen quick.

I also dont think Kimi will resist. He knows he is out of championship and all he can do is help Vettel and Ferrari. So whether people like it or not, unless Vettel has any issue with the car, he is finishing ahead of Kimi.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:55 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Kimi won't have the pace to stay ahead of Vettel. Ferrari intervention or not.


I dunno about that,he's been quicker here the past two years and all weekend so far. Not one of Seb's best tracks around here. He could mess it up if it's changeable conditions or wet though.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:12 am 
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Kimi will take the lead then crash taking out Hamilton gifting Vettel the win.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:23 am 
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I think Kimi might have the pace to keep in front of Vettel but Vettel will be given the undercut.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:52 am 
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Raikkonen will try to get a start similar to Bottas' in Austria. He'll get alongside Hamilton & bang wheels with him, paving the way for Vettel.

If Raikkonen gets a race ban or time penalty, it will be no issue for Ferrari as Vettel is fighting for the title.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:10 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Raikkonen will try to get a start similar to Bottas' in Austria. He'll get alongside Hamilton & bang wheels with him, paving the way for Vettel.

If Raikkonen gets a race ban or time penalty, it will be no issue for Ferrari as Vettel is fighting for the title.

The only thing, Kimi won't do that. Perhaps rather the opposite, he will be the one to shy away from such a challenging riskfull duel with Hamilton.
What may happen is that Vettel bangs wheels with Kimi.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:25 am 
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They'll give Vettel the optimum strategy, same as in Monaco, while potentially trying to force Hamilton's hand with Kimi if he can stay close enough to Hamilton/ahead of him in the opening stint.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:44 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
They'll give Vettel the optimum strategy, same as in Monaco, while potentially trying to force Hamilton's hand with Kimi if he can stay close enough to Hamilton/ahead of him in the opening stint.


Nobody knew ahead of time that running long (overcut) was the optimum strategy at Monaco. This hasn't been the case for a long time. Perhaps someone can recall when was the last time when an overcut actually succeeded prior to Monaco this year, I don't. Not since the refueling days. The only issue that I had with Ferrari strategy was that they didn't inform Kimi that Vettel would be running several more laps before pitting and that he was setting very good lap times. If Raikkonen had turned up his engine for those few crucial laps, he may have been able to stay ahead.

It's strange that everyone is assuming that Ferrari will use blatant team orders in the upcoming race when it's been the Mercedes that has used them consistently this season, whereas Ferrari has not.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:02 am 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Nobody knew ahead of time that running long (overcut) was the optimum strategy at Monaco. This hasn't been the case for a long time. Perhaps someone can recall when was the last time when an overcut actually succeeded prior to Monaco this year, I don't. Not since the refueling days. The only issue that I had with Ferrari strategy was that they didn't inform Kimi that Vettel would be running several more laps before pitting and that he was setting very good lap times. If Raikkonen had turned up his engine for those few crucial laps, he may have been able to stay ahead.

Australia, also this year. ;)

SmoothRide wrote:
It's strange that everyone is assuming that Ferrari will use blatant team orders in the upcoming race when it's been the Mercedes that has used them consistently this season, whereas Ferrari has not.

Because they should use them. Kimi is so far behind he's not in the championship fight, even if he does have Vettel's pace at this one weekend. From a team perspective, it would be purely foolish to let him get in the way if Vettel has any chance at attacking Hamilton.

Equally, because everybody assumes he won't be faster than Vettel in the race. If - and it's a big 'if' - if he is, then I expect he might very well get to stay in front.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:35 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Australia, also this year. ;)


True, but it was not a team order (don't mean to move the goalposts here, but I was talking about teammate battles). Vettel was clearly faster than Hamilton in AUS and once Mercedes blinked first, it was a matter of looking at the data to see that fresh tires did not provide a sufficient boost in pace.

Exediron wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
It's strange that everyone is assuming that Ferrari will use blatant team orders in the upcoming race when it's been the Mercedes that has used them consistently this season, whereas Ferrari has not.

Because they should use them. Kimi is so far behind he's not in the championship fight, even if he does have Vettel's pace at this one weekend. From a team perspective, it would be purely foolish to let him get in the way if Vettel has any chance at attacking Hamilton.

Equally, because everybody assumes he won't be faster than Vettel in the race. If - and it's a big 'if' - if he is, then I expect he might very well get to stay in front.


So, basically, what you are saying is that if Kimi is faster than Vettel, he will stay in front. If he is slower, then he will not. I agree with that. No team orders are needed here.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:51 am 
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this one could be interesting because i suspect the undercut will work. so if kimi is ahead and they bring sv in first then its a more blatant tactic then leaving sv out longer to see if he has more pace.

wonder how upset arrivabene is that the other driver is ahead making things awkward. how dare he. maybe they should just detune kimis engine in quali to make sure he's behind.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:53 am 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Vettel was clearly faster than Hamilton in AUS and once Mercedes blinked first, it was a matter of looking at the data to see that fresh tires did not provide a sufficient boost in pace.

Nope, Max held Lewis up. The Merc strategists saw an opportunity for Max to jump Kimi giving Lewis clear air after he pit. When Max instead chose to stay out, it handed Vettel the lead on a silver platter.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:07 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Vettel was clearly faster than Hamilton in AUS and once Mercedes blinked first, it was a matter of looking at the data to see that fresh tires did not provide a sufficient boost in pace.

Nope, Max held Lewis up. The Merc strategists saw an opportunity for Max to jump Kimi giving Lewis clear air after he pit. When Max instead chose to stay out, it handed Vettel the lead on a silver platter.


Vettel was running low 1:28 laps prior to pit stops and high 1:27s afterwards. It was clear that Vettel was faster than Hamilton in the first stint because he could stay very close to him in turbulent air. Hamilton ran high 1:27s (at best) after his pitstop so there was no meaningful pace difference.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:26 am 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
this one could be interesting because i suspect the undercut will work. so if kimi is ahead and they bring sv in first then its a more blatant tactic then leaving sv out longer to see if he has more pace.

wonder how upset arrivabene is that the other driver is ahead making things awkward. how dare he. maybe they should just detune kimis engine in quali to make sure he's behind.


A pretty much a put down of Kimi (a hopeless loser), Vettel (in want of his teammate be sabotaged) and Ferrari (a nasty team) . For no apparent reason.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:40 am 
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Kimi will does as he is commanded, but the issue is when, I can see him complying 2 laps after being told to make a point!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:09 am 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
They'll give Vettel the optimum strategy, same as in Monaco, while potentially trying to force Hamilton's hand with Kimi if he can stay close enough to Hamilton/ahead of him in the opening stint.


Nobody knew ahead of time that running long (overcut) was the optimum strategy at Monaco. This hasn't been the case for a long time. Perhaps someone can recall when was the last time when an overcut actually succeeded prior to Monaco this year, I don't. Not since the refueling days. The only issue that I had with Ferrari strategy was that they didn't inform Kimi that Vettel would be running several more laps before pitting and that he was setting very good lap times. If Raikkonen had turned up his engine for those few crucial laps, he may have been able to stay ahead.

It's strange that everyone is assuming that Ferrari will use blatant team orders in the upcoming race when it's been the Mercedes that has used them consistently this season, whereas Ferrari has not.


Well, if you pit your leading driver into slower traffic at Monaco ....

;) :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:46 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
They'll give Vettel the optimum strategy, same as in Monaco, while potentially trying to force Hamilton's hand with Kimi if he can stay close enough to Hamilton/ahead of him in the opening stint.


Nobody knew ahead of time that running long (overcut) was the optimum strategy at Monaco. This hasn't been the case for a long time. Perhaps someone can recall when was the last time when an overcut actually succeeded prior to Monaco this year, I don't. Not since the refueling days. The only issue that I had with Ferrari strategy was that they didn't inform Kimi that Vettel would be running several more laps before pitting and that he was setting very good lap times. If Raikkonen had turned up his engine for those few crucial laps, he may have been able to stay ahead.

It's strange that everyone is assuming that Ferrari will use blatant team orders in the upcoming race when it's been the Mercedes that has used them consistently this season, whereas Ferrari has not.


Well, if you pit your leading driver into slower traffic at Monaco ....

;) :lol:


I don't think traffic was predictable in that race, although if you look back to the comments, I was dubious in regards to Ferrari tactics in that race. My point was not about traffic though, but the fact that they let Vettel put in several fast laps and Kimi wasn't informed so that he could to react accordingly (at least as far as we know).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:01 pm 
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So, right before the start:
63 per cent start/first lap
the rest first pit stop (33 per cent)
... and one forumer belives in KR ....


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
So, right before the start:
63 per cent start/first lap
the rest first pit stop (33 per cent)
... and one forumer belives in KR ....
Make that two, but I don't believe in Ferrari...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
So, right before the start:
63 per cent start/first lap
the rest first pit stop (33 per cent)
... and one forumer belives in KR ....


How does that crow taste? Is it a bit bitter?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Congratulations Räikkönen! Faster all weekend - and he finally made it stick!

8)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Congratulations Räikkönen! Faster all weekend - and he finally made it stick!

8)
I was wondering how the temperature impacted Vettel and Räikkönen differently. A question for Gary Anderson perhaps.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:09 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Congratulations Räikkönen! Faster all weekend - and he finally made it stick!

8)


proper f1 circuit. high speed. challenging. kimi is quick. full stop. like spa. no suprise.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Quite happy to eat my words today; I think they would have been strong armed by Bottas into not doing it at the end even without the tyre issues. Great race from Kimi, was good to see him up there with Lewis for most of the race.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Congratulations Räikkönen! Faster all weekend - and he finally made it stick!

8)


proper f1 circuit. high speed. challenging. kimi is quick. full stop. like spa. no suprise.


Absolutely. Even though Kimi has a bad year so far and been unlucky he is fast in this track and he beat Vettel in the past as well. He deserved to finish ahead of Vettel like Monaco. It was a blessing in disguise that Max held him so Ferrari could not change positions on pits. I thought he came to pits rather late but still alteast he got ahead of Vettel and podium this time 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Yes, quite pleased my prediction was totally wrong! Funny how the 'Kimi stays ahead' votes have jumped up recently!! Thoroughly deserved result.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Voted else. Vettel passes him because of Kimis tyre going of near the end of the race.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:04 pm 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
So, right before the start:
63 per cent start/first lap
the rest first pit stop (33 per cent)
... and one forumer belives in KR ....


How does that crow taste? Is it a bit bitter?


I must admit, I do not understand this comment all. Bitter, why bitter? Räikkönen beat Vettel quite often in qualifying over the last 25-30 races or so. But almost never he made it stick, managed to stay ahead in the race. Now he did. That is absolutely great for him! Why bitter?
:?:


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