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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:18 pm 
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The propensity some of you guys have to come up with some of the bollox you do really does boggle the mind.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:19 pm 
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chinki wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Johnston wrote:
What's he supposed to say. I hope he goes and wins 3 WDCs and WCCs. I'm sure his bosses would love their team principle saying they he hopes another team beats them.

Could you imagine Horner coming out and saying "Well yeah I hope Seb goes to Ferrari and beats us" ?

Odd no one has picked up onthis yet.

Quote:
We made Lewis an offer - an offer, which I believe is more money than any other driver at the moment is being paid. That leads us to suspect that our competitor and our partner Mercedes-Benz offered a bit more money. I don’t know that, but I think for Lewis made his decision. I am disappointed in one sense, but you have to focus on going forward.

I noticed that, and I think Martin's trying to figure out why Lewis made the move. It can't be the reliability / mistake issues, frustrating as they were, because Lewis has chosen to go to arguably the only team on the grid with a worse record than McLaren this year. It's possible that Lewis genuinely wants the challenge of taking a team from zero to hero, although what he thinks he can do when possibly the greatest example of a driver to have done so in modern history hasn't been able to do it with the same team is anybody's guess. That leaves money, and if McLaren offered the pot at the end of the rainbow as claimed then it would be hard for someone to walk away from that, leaving him to conclude that maybe Lewis wasn't walking away from that as Mercedes had upped the ante even more.

I have been saying it from nearly the beginning of this season but Lewis like any other top rated driver needs the #1 in the team - something he wasn't getting at McLaren. I find it surprising that not many think Lewis made the move because he is getting #1 at Merc. In fact I even know Ross Brawn publicly stated that Lewis wont be getting #1 at Merc but since we all are speculating and not everything everyone says is the truth, I would put my money on the guess that Lewis made the move coz he wanted #1, something he has likely been promised by Merc behind closed doors.

It's possible, but I find it hard to believe that was the sole motivator for going to a team that on the face of it is in a completely different league to McLaren, and not in a positive way. It may have been part of the reason but I suspect there is something more. Just a guess, mind you.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:20 pm 
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i can see melbourne 2013 qualifying,lewis hamilton in mercedes-benz drifting in last corner and crossing the finish line and taking pole position!

i cant wait to see mw face!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Saorsa wrote:
I'm not a Hamilton fan. But what Whitmarsh has said is shocking. If I was Hamilton I would do everything possible to McLaren's race in Texas to make it their worse race in Grand Prix history.

what an evil, spiteful thing to say. You wouldn't go and talk to him about it first to find out if the journalist got it right? No, you'd go straight into knee-jerk sabotage mode. Nice x(


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:23 pm 
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maxtnt wrote:
i can see melbourne 2013 qualifying,lewis hamilton in mercedes-benz drifting in last corner and crossing the finish line and taking pole position!

i cant wait to see mw face!



Thats alright by lap 20 he'll have no fresh tyres left :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:24 pm 
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So your telling me that this years bad strategy, bad pit stops and unreliable cars are an improvement? No the last years of ron weren't that great but the last 2 years of twitmarsh have been definately downhill.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Man Withmarsh just proves that he's made a bad call. Why would he be so bitter as too saying i hope he regrets it.
Any psychologist will tell you you reading this the guy has a grudge and a real issue with it. He would be better off
worrying about finishing two cars the next two races and making sure there's no more cockups or mechanical failures.

Anyone read the piece about checo? He's in for some brainwashing we wont recognize him in melbourne.

Here's the piece.

Q: But you yourself will also have to be prepared for the pressure, as it will also be the time to question your decision…
MW: Of course it will. I have the good fortune - or bad fortune - to be considerably older and I am used to such situations. (laughs) I have read my obituary a number of times and I can handle that, so I am not worried about me. I am also not worried about him. We have the winter to prepare him…

Q: What do you mean by prepare?
MW: He will spend a lot less time in Mexico than he realises at the moment. (laughs) That means he will be in the simulator, will be with the race engineers, he will be with the strategy people, he will be with the general engineering team, he will turn up considerably fitter and stronger than he is today.

Q: That sounds like a 24/7 job until Melbourne 2013…
MW: Yes, but he doesn’t realise that now! (laughs) My experience of him is that he is really talented, he is very young and he is very raw. He is intelligent and has a nice humility about him. But also you can also sense the belief that he will be a world champion one day.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:27 pm 
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thanks Emerson F for summarising the sensible points in this thread.

I like McLaren and Whitmarsh - but you can only look at this year and think it has been shambolic. I agree with the way they approached Lewis contract - it really pushed him I think. Lower pay - more media PR nonsense - it was a bit complacent. They let him consider other options - then were too late when they upped the offer.

The problem is - I dont think McLaren had that much money to offer him-at least initially.

Imagine how different it could have been for McLaren this year had it not been for the pit stops and reliability. Lewis would be fighting for the championship, they would be in the running for the constructors. Lewis could well have won this year - and if they had handled his contract well - they would have retained him. Their situation next year comparatively is a bit grim. I feel bad for them-its sad and Ron must be very unhappy. I feel bad for Whitmarsh - he seems like a decent guy - but his ship does not appear to be as super tight as it should be.


Last edited by SWAN on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:28 pm 
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spiritone wrote:
So your telling me that this years bad strategy, bad pit stops and unreliable cars are an improvement? No the last years of ron weren't that great but the last 2 years of twitmarsh have been definately downhill.



Go back further than 07 and you will see how bad McLaren could be under ron.

Some of us seen McLaren under ron go from being dominant to force india territory.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
It's possible, but I find it hard to believe that was the sole motivator for going to a team that on the face of it is in a completely different league to McLaren, and not in a positive way. It may have been part of the reason but I suspect there is something more. Just a guess, mind you.

Surely there is more but #1 I feel is what finally tilted the balance. We know based on speculation that money was about the same offered by both teams and Lewis perhaps had to decide between a stronger McLaren car (speculation for next year but generally agreed) versus a #1 in the team. Now McLaren is quite clear about not having #1 drivers but it is possible that the Merc can be a better car in a year or two.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
spiritone wrote:
So your telling me that this years bad strategy, bad pit stops and unreliable cars are an improvement? No the last years of ron weren't that great but the last 2 years of twitmarsh have been definately downhill.



Go back further than 07 and you will see how bad McLaren could be under ron.

Some of us seen McLaren under ron go from being dominant to force india territory.


They where fast and very unreliable. I can totally see Mclaren there next year minus the speed.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:45 pm 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
phyz wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Hamilton's just realised that:

(a) The car is all hail the mods slow.
(b) The team is German.
(c) His teammate is German.
(d) His teammate is fast.
(e) His race engineer is going to be Michael Schumacher.

Considering McLaren's reliability, this might be the best part for him ;)


Team Mercedes: 136 points
Lewis Hamilton: 165 points

While the other poster is indeed being silly (not in a bad way... nothing personal/ humorous), but you are losing sight of math. Just like gravity, math can be a cruel mistress.

I wasn't being serious mate :)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:49 pm 
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chinki wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Johnston wrote:
What's he supposed to say. I hope he goes and wins 3 WDCs and WCCs. I'm sure his bosses would love their team principle saying they he hopes another team beats them.

Could you imagine Horner coming out and saying "Well yeah I hope Seb goes to Ferrari and beats us" ?

Odd no one has picked up onthis yet.

Quote:
We made Lewis an offer - an offer, which I believe is more money than any other driver at the moment is being paid. That leads us to suspect that our competitor and our partner Mercedes-Benz offered a bit more money. I don’t know that, but I think for Lewis made his decision. I am disappointed in one sense, but you have to focus on going forward.

I noticed that, and I think Martin's trying to figure out why Lewis made the move. It can't be the reliability / mistake issues, frustrating as they were, because Lewis has chosen to go to arguably the only team on the grid with a worse record than McLaren this year. It's possible that Lewis genuinely wants the challenge of taking a team from zero to hero, although what he thinks he can do when possibly the greatest example of a driver to have done so in modern history hasn't been able to do it with the same team is anybody's guess. That leaves money, and if McLaren offered the pot at the end of the rainbow as claimed then it would be hard for someone to walk away from that, leaving him to conclude that maybe Lewis wasn't walking away from that as Mercedes had upped the ante even more.

I have been saying it from nearly the beginning of this season but Lewis like any other top rated driver needs the #1 in the team - something he wasn't getting at McLaren. I find it surprising that not many think Lewis made the move because he is getting #1 at Merc. In fact I even know Ross Brawn publicly stated that Lewis wont be getting #1 at Merc but since we all are speculating and not everything everyone says is the truth, I would put my money on the guess that Lewis made the move coz he wanted #1, something he has likely been promised by Merc behind closed doors.


:nod:
And a team needs a #1 driver IMO

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
I don't think Team Bosses should say what they think. Drivers are a different story, we want them to be honest about what they think goes on on track and about other drivers. If any driver came out and aid he hopes his former team struggles next year before he'd even left he'd be torn apart and rightly so.


So you want Drivers to say the truth but not team principles?

Isn't that having double standards?

No I think driver's have more flexiblity to speak their minds. They can do so about on track action and about other drivers. But certainly not their team boss or their mechanics. That's where I'd draw the line and IMO Whitmarsh crossed his.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Emerson.F wrote:

They where fast and very unreliable. I can totally see Mclaren there next year minus the speed.



Yeah they were really quick in '95 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Quote:
No I think driver's have more flexiblity to speak their minds. They can do so about on track action and about other drivers. But certainly not their team boss or their mechanics. That's where I'd draw the line and IMO Whitmarsh crossed his.


Oh so because they are on track they can speak more freely?

Nah to me if one can do it they all can. One rule for them and one for us just reeks of hypocrisy and two facedness in my mind.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:56 pm 
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Meh. Whitmarsh sounded unprofessional. He wished his driver bad luck in the future in other words and it wasn't nice to read. If Hamilton had said the same of McLaren you'd be tearing him apart Johnston and so would I.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:04 pm 
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yep i would too


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:12 pm 
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McLaren have made a MASSIVE mistake letting Lewis go.

They have gone from the fastest driver on the grid to two of the slowest. All they can hope for next year is a few races when Button picks the right tyres and the right time and Perez looks after his tyres well. Red Bull with run away with it next year now they have no one to contend with in qualifying.

OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH YEEEEEEEEAAHHH


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Meh. Whitmarsh sounded unprofessional. He wished his driver bad luck in the future in other words and it wasn't nice to read. If Hamilton had said the same of McLaren you'd be tearing him apart Johnston and so would I.



The way I look at it and have is, if it's okay for me to call my boss a nincompooper it's okay for him to call me one.

So if MW is in the wrong then any driver that does similar is in the wrong too. so all this "Less PR robot, speak what's on their mind" is BS and hypocrisy because the door doesn't swing both ways.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:19 pm 
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You clearly didn't read the part where I said that drivers shouldn't speak their minds about team bosses or mechanics then.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:22 pm 
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maxtnt wrote:
i can see melbourne 2013 qualifying,lewis hamilton in mercedes-benz drifting in last corner and crossing the finish line and taking pole position!

i cant wait to see mw face!


That will be nothing compared with the expression on Hamilton's face at the end of the race.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:27 pm 
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It's Whitmarsh who has regretts, to have lost Lewis due to his & teams incompetence!
He sounds bitter, when he says he hopes Lewis regrets his decission.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:29 pm 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
maxtnt wrote:
i can see melbourne 2013 qualifying,lewis hamilton in mercedes-benz drifting in last corner and crossing the finish line and taking pole position!

i cant wait to see mw face!


That will be nothing compared with the expression on Hamilton's face at the end of the race.

Could you two supply with this weeks lottery numbers please?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Quote:
It's Whitmarsh who has regretts, to have lost Lewis due to his & teams incompetence!
He sounds bitter, when he says he hopes Lewis regrets his decission.


Post of the day for Sabrina

OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH YEEEEEEEEAHH!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:36 pm 
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No more of this then ay
Image

As a Mclaren and Lewis fan im sad not being able too see that Mclaren with the yellow helmet next year.

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Last edited by Emerson.F on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:39 pm 
Nothing has changed since the day he signed for Mercedes (mainly the prospects for either team going into 2012 and 2013) to have made him regret the decision, everything remains the same.
So he surely can not regret the decision until something changes or he has turned a wheel in the 2012 Mercedes car, I think then he might begin to regret especially if the Mclaren is fast and reliable in 2012.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Emerson.F,

Thats brings a tear to my eye. Had to picture Lewis in another team

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH YEEEEEAH


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:52 pm 
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I don't see how Hamilton would, at this point regret changing teams. We don't know how good or bad Maccas or Mercs car will be next year, for all we know a bloody HRT could be dominant. Until we get to Melbourne and find out which team has produced the better car, Hamilton should not be regretting his decision IMO.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Macho Man wrote:
Emerson.F,

Thats brings a tear to my eye. Had to picture Lewis in another team

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH YEEEEEAH


Whats really funny about that gif is that Martin seemed happier than ever about that win.
I think he will regret it far more than Lewis will.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Emerson.F wrote:
Image


McLaren have finally found the source of Hamilton's mechanical woes. This is the result.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Emerson.F wrote:
I think he will regret it far more than Lewis will.


Somehow I doubt it. Whatever issues currently exist about reliability, Mclaren in the long run are more likely to win races than Mercedes in its present shape. By 'long run' I mean what's left of Hamilton's F1 career.

If only to prove a point - but more likely for their own prestige - McLaren will now go all out to address thos reliability issues. I do not think there is the slighest chance that they will fall behind Mercedes in either tally for another 7 to 8 years. After that, it won't matter.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Whichever way you spin it, the overall tone of the interview isnt exactly magnanimous.

Personally ive always felt him to be out of his depth as Team Principal.

Martins now had 4 years at Mclaren without a trophy. How many more do we think he'll get ?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:30 pm 
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There's every chance neither party could end up regretting the move. Hamilton may end up happy with Mercedes winning races and McLaren may end up happy and winning races with Button and Perez.

But then there would be no arguments and we can't have that.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Caravaggio wrote:
Whichever way you spin it, the overall tone of the interview isnt exactly magnanimous.

Personally ive always felt him to be out of his depth as Team Principal.

Martins now had 4 years at Mclaren without a trophy. How many more do we think he'll get ?



Well Ron went for 7 I think and touched near that same figure a few times so it's early days for Martin.

Heck ron went for a few years without a race win never mind a championship. He can hardly fire someone for doing better than he did.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:41 pm 
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True !

But then it was / is Rons team .

He just cant seem to hack it for me. Hes more Graham Taylor than Jose Mourinio :lol:

(Soccer reference for all you none Brits )


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Caravaggio wrote:
Whichever way you spin it, the overall tone of the interview isnt exactly magnanimous.

Personally ive always felt him to be out of his depth as Team Principal.

Martins now had 4 years at Mclaren without a trophy. How many more do we think he'll get ?



Well Ron went for 7 I think and touched near that same figure a few times so it's early days for Martin.

Heck ron went for a few years without a race win never mind a championship. He can hardly fire someone for doing better than he did.

he can fire him whenever he wants, but IMo MW should never have been TP, but after this disaterous season, and this revealing interview, he really should leave

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Thing is MW was basically "Groomed" for the job. He's been in line for it for years.

And prey tell who would you give the job too?

Oh and i love how it's been disastrous. Whats that mean for Mercs season :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Sabrina wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Caravaggio wrote:
Whichever way you spin it, the overall tone of the interview isnt exactly magnanimous.

Personally ive always felt him to be out of his depth as Team Principal.

Martins now had 4 years at Mclaren without a trophy. How many more do we think he'll get ?



Well Ron went for 7 I think and touched near that same figure a few times so it's early days for Martin.

Heck ron went for a few years without a race win never mind a championship. He can hardly fire someone for doing better than he did.

he can fire him whenever he wants, but IMo MW should never have been TP, but after this disaterous season, and this revealing interview, he really should leave


and give the job to who? They'd probably do a similar job to Whitmarsh, so I don't see the point.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Thing is MW was basically "Groomed" for the job. He's been in line for it for years.

And prey tell who would you give the job too?

Oh and i love how it's been disastrous. Whats that mean for Mercs season :lol: :lol:


Theres no need to turn this into a personal argument Johnston.

I was merely stating my opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:58 pm 
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phyz wrote:
garagetinkerer wrote:
phyz wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
Hamilton's just realised that:

(a) The car is all hail the mods slow.
(b) The team is German.
(c) His teammate is German.
(d) His teammate is fast.
(e) His race engineer is going to be Michael Schumacher.

Considering McLaren's reliability, this might be the best part for him ;)


Team Mercedes: 136 points
Lewis Hamilton: 165 points

While the other poster is indeed being silly (not in a bad way... nothing personal/ humorous), but you are losing sight of math. Just like gravity, math can be a cruel mistress.

I wasn't being serious mate :)

Not speaking about you mate, but it is getting harder to tell if someone is kidding here, or is plain off the rocker :P

anyhoo, all apologies!!!

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