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Star of Quali today
Vettel 26%  26%  [ 42 ]
Hamilton 51%  51%  [ 82 ]
Webber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
GroJo 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
Kimi 6%  6%  [ 9 ]
Massa 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Schu 11%  11%  [ 17 ]
Alonso 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Someone else 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 161
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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:50 am 
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First off, I just love your name. For us in the colonies we are few and far in between. I think that Schumi is going to go out with a bang because he sure came in with a whimper. Not a win but a podium in Austin and Brazil


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:35 am 
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Hamilton, even Horner was impressed at TV, and said, Lewis was getting faster and faster, they were happy they got pole in the end

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:38 am 
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Bakerking31 wrote:
I guess people didnt watch the onboards

Hamilton missed many apex's and had 2 lockups, Vettel had almost a perfect lap (1 small lockup but nailed the apex's). Vettel had a much better and cleaner lap.

All the stuff about the Macca being slower than the RBR is BS, watch the onboard laps and see LH compared to SV.

Maybe because the Red Bull had better traction and more downforce. Hamilton was driving on the ragged edge , to put this performance out of the car, like Damon Hill said. It looked like mistakes , but he had to scratch the limit for doing such a lap.
Vettel had not to push the limit this far in his car.

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:50 am 
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Haribo wrote:
Bakerking31 wrote:
I guess people didnt watch the onboards

Hamilton missed many apex's and had 2 lockups, Vettel had almost a perfect lap (1 small lockup but nailed the apex's). Vettel had a much better and cleaner lap.

All the stuff about the Macca being slower than the RBR is BS, watch the onboard laps and see LH compared to SV.

Maybe because the Red Bull had better traction and more downforce. Hamilton was driving on the ragged edge , to put this performance out of the car, like Damon Hill said. It looked like mistakes , but he had to scratch the limit for doing such a lap.
Vettel had not to push the limit this far in his car.


damon hill...how credible the sources is when those sky pundits kept praising hamilton like there's no tomorrow all the while.

Vettel didn't push to the limit??

Watch the onboard again and look at how keen vettel was to activated DRS earlier after each corner to atk the time gained......some people cna be so blind...and dont forget mclaren was out of reach in abu dhabi.....some of you trying so hard to label that car as incompetent is beyond me.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:55 am 
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Vettel ate Hamilton!!


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:11 am 
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Haribo wrote:
Bakerking31 wrote:
I guess people didnt watch the onboards

Hamilton missed many apex's and had 2 lockups, Vettel had almost a perfect lap (1 small lockup but nailed the apex's). Vettel had a much better and cleaner lap.

All the stuff about the Macca being slower than the RBR is BS, watch the onboard laps and see LH compared to SV.

Maybe because the Red Bull had better traction and more downforce. Hamilton was driving on the ragged edge , to put this performance out of the car, like Damon Hill said. It looked like mistakes , but he had to scratch the limit for doing such a lap.
Vettel had not to push the limit this far in his car.


And you know this how? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd like for once to hear anything else but opinion and speculation on how McLaren and Ferrari are so bad and it's Hamilton and Alonso taking them to places they don't belong to while Red Bull is so great that it practically drives by itself and any driver can take pole, except for Webber obviously, but any other driver will do.

BTW, have you noticed how often it's mentioned or insinuated in this forum that McLaren's and Ferrari's true potential is shown by Button and Massa (whenever they are behind their teammates) but Red Bull's true potential is still unknown because the drivers have never taken the car to such limits?


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:25 am 
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Haribo wrote:
Bakerking31 wrote:
I guess people didnt watch the onboards

Hamilton missed many apex's and had 2 lockups, Vettel had almost a perfect lap (1 small lockup but nailed the apex's). Vettel had a much better and cleaner lap.

All the stuff about the Macca being slower than the RBR is BS, watch the onboard laps and see LH compared to SV.

Maybe because the Red Bull had better traction and more downforce. Hamilton was driving on the ragged edge , to put this performance out of the car, like Damon Hill said. It looked like mistakes , but he had to scratch the limit for doing such a lap.
Vettel had not to push the limit this far in his car.

Its irrelevant. FP is for discovering the limits of the car on any particular track.

When the driver misses apex's and has lockups, they have miscalculated, not driven a 'perfect' lap, and would have given a better quali timing if they had not made these mistakes.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:50 am 
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Canadian Stig wrote:
First off, I just love your name. For us in the colonies we are few and far in between. I think that Schumi is going to go out with a bang because he sure came in with a whimper. Not a win but a podium in Austin and Brazil

Thank you for those kind words! Hoping for Schuey to do well too! :nod:


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:50 am 
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From my eyes Lews put in a stirling effort to get anywhere near Sebastian and I would vote him as the quali star yesterday.

This forum seems to swing from one extreme to the other. When Lewis is not great, the fanboys come out to defend ,resolutely blaming everything except the idea that perhaps Lews is human after all and not the Second Coming. When Lewis pulls a blinder out of the hat others simply seem incapable of acknowledging that he can put a car places that not many others would.

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:00 am 
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Hamilton for mine. He made the session exciting. Seb just did what was expected of him, though by a margin less than expected given FP1, 2 and 3 form.

Schumacher very impressive too.

Disappointments: Maldonado after showing excellent pace early. Alonso of course, that Ferrari looks even more a handful around here compared with other recent venues. Dan Ricciardo, but I think he would have made it through if it weren't for the yellows at the end.

* Disclaimer: I am no fan of Lewis Hamilton or MSC

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:23 am 
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Greg92 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Bakerking31 wrote:
I guess people didnt watch the onboards

Hamilton missed many apex's and had 2 lockups, Vettel had almost a perfect lap (1 small lockup but nailed the apex's). Vettel had a much better and cleaner lap.

All the stuff about the Macca being slower than the RBR is BS, watch the onboard laps and see LH compared to SV.

Maybe because the Red Bull had better traction and more downforce. Hamilton was driving on the ragged edge , to put this performance out of the car, like Damon Hill said. It looked like mistakes , but he had to scratch the limit for doing such a lap.
Vettel had not to push the limit this far in his car.


And you know this how? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd like for once to hear anything else but opinion and speculation on how McLaren and Ferrari are so bad and it's Hamilton and Alonso taking them to places they don't belong to while Red Bull is so great that it practically drives by itself and any driver can take pole, except for Webber obviously, but any other driver will do.

BTW, have you noticed how often it's mentioned or insinuated in this forum that McLaren's and Ferrari's true potential is shown by Button and Massa (whenever they are behind their teammates) but Red Bull's true potential is still unknown because the drivers have never taken the car to such limits?
:thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:29 am 
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lunatic wrote:
sgt.hartman wrote:
Ergh, all this talk of Hamilton "putting the car where it wasn't supposed to be"... If the car qualified 2nd, then that's where it was capable of qualifying, enough with that "not supposed to be" nonsense.

He locked up and missed apexes, that's not "dragging it by the scruff of the neck" that's over driving it and losing time. He locked up and went wide on a few corners, if he'd have made the apex at those corners, he would have been on pole - locking up and missing an apex does not mean going faster. The subtleties are in the parts where he DIDN'T lock up, in the parts where he took good speed into and through corners etc.

If the McLaren wasn't, on an ideal lap from everyone, meant to be on the front row, it was because others failed, not because he "drove the car to where it wasn't supposed to be", ergh.
Yeah alright, fact is that he got that car so close to a car that was well over a second quicker than his throughout practice, it might not have been pretty but he got the best out of that car, pretty doesn't always mean faster.
I think that Hamilton drove a really good lap, but then so did Vettel and while it is a close call I would give it to Vettel because he got the pole and was sensational throughout the weekend.

And before you go "Yeah but it was all about the car", you say that the Red Bull was over a second faster in practise while I say it wasn't so then lets look at it with an open mind:

1. Vettel was quickest throughout
2. On average Hamilton was 0.052 sec faster than Webber
3. On average Hamilton was 0.462 sec faster than Button
4. On average Webber was 0.408 sec faster than Button
5. On average Webber was only 0.178 sec faster than the McLarens
6. On average Vettel was 1.139 sec faster than Webber
7. On average Vettel was 1.085 sec faster than Hamilton
8. On average Vettel was 1.547 sec faster than Button
9. On average Vettel was 1.316 sec faster than the McLarens

You talk of Vettel's fans being closed minded then you say that the Red Bull CAR "was well over a second quicker than his throughout practice" when it clearly was not, it was only well over a second quicker in practise in Vettels hand's and he was on average 1.139 sec faster throughout practise than his team mate. You don't think that maybe this had something to do with him being able to adapt to a new track quicker than others, I mean in first practise he was 1.4 sec quicker than anyone else and 2.4 sec faster than his team mate as others were battling to adapt to the new track and he just found the right line very early on; others did get closer in the 2nd and 3rd practise sessions once they had adapted to the new track.

The fact that Vettel adapted to this new track so quickly and went so much faster than everyone else is proof of how good he really is.

However in your "so called" open mind it was all about the car. Your statement in an earlier post that "Vettel fans are the most narrow minded I have ever come across" works exactly the opposite way, those that are against Vettel are clearly narrow minded all that you guys see is this Red Bull car in your heads you cannot allow yourselves in any way means or form to see that a lot of the reason that the Red Bull is so quick is down to the driver, yes it is a very good car but in Vettel's hands it becomes a great, almost unbeatable, car.

Here's some narrow mindedness for you. The world according to the people against Vettel:
Vettel wins in a TR - it's all about the car
Vettel comes from behind to win the 2010 WDC - it's all about the car
Vettel dominates the 2011 WDC while his team mate finishes 3rd - it's all about the car
Vettel goes from 11th to 5th in China 2012 - I think that was all about the team and their strategy and the car
Vettel comes from the pit lane to finish on the podium in Abu Dhabi 2012 - it's all about luck and the car
Vettel wins two WDC's in a row and is heading for his 3rd - it's all about Newey and the car
Etc, etc, etc and so forth and so on..............

It's never about Vettel with you guys is it, at least Vettel fans do concede that Hamilton and Alonso are both top class drivers it's just that they are not as good as Vettel.

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Last edited by gregwil on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:36 am 
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For me the one most 'out of place' qualifier was Schumi. He has been doing so well this season; wonder if Rosberg has slowed or become demoralised (by Michael being faster and /or Lewis being taken on as number one?).

Vettel and Hamilton have fast, good, well-balanced cars. This has always made drivers seem effortlessly superior, and the drive far easier.

Schumi has not had a good car all year. Just wish he'd stayed at Mercedes or joined Sauber for 2013.

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:43 am 
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biokimi wrote:
How can people vote for Hamilton over Vettel? How can people vote for 2nd place over 1st place? Wtf... I just don't get it, remember Hamilton finished ahead of Webber you cannot argue that the RedBull was quicker...


easy - one car is quicker , and one driver is quicker-simples init ....the whole paddock thinks this apart from you ,lol


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:52 am 
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POBRatings wrote:
For me the one most 'out of place' qualifier was Schumi. He has been doing so well this season; wonder if Rosberg has slowed or become demoralised (by Michael being faster and /or Lewis being taken on as number one?).

Vettel and Hamilton have fast, good, well-balanced cars. This has always made drivers seem effortlessly superior, and the drive far easier.

Schumi has not had a good car all year. Just wish he'd stayed at Mercedes or joined Sauber for 2013.

You've made a v good point.

I hadn't voted previously as I thought Seb, Lewis, RoGro, Schumi etc. had all performed well and it was hard to distinguishe the 'star'.

But you're right, Schumi is the only driver that is seriously 'out of place' compared to his team mate (Button's car broke down, but the McLaren was expected to be at/near the top of the grid) - so I've finally voted Schumi.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:18 am 
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I also think Schuey must have done a great job - though in fairness, I think some of the others didn't get the pace they were expecting (ALonso for example?) due to the tyres not switching on.
I watchedevery session and was particularly annoyed at the RB8 being specifically fast - I don't hink Macca were sandbagging at all - but I think RB were!
Webber was miles off his team mate - which I find strange - I know Vettel is faster, but by how much? RB/vettel have gone all out to get the pole/win - obviously(!) but I really dont believe vettel is 0.7 to 1 sec better than webber in the (supposedly) same car?
Good pole lap from SV - but I think he was pretty much at the limit of the car - whereas, by comparison, I think LH was over the limit of his car. We don't really know, cos JB missed Q3, so don't have a TM comparison.
if you actually look at the times - I'd say Grosjean is perhaps is a stand out performer and also NH!
and as regards the poster saying you can't vote for second place - thats a bit daft IMHO. LH was only a tenth of vettel - which, to close from previous session time differences - was bloody good!
I think Hamilton gets my vote (just) for being able to try and take the fight to RB and generate some excitement!


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:53 am 
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chinki wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Vettel, Hamilton, Grosjean, Massa all did a good job.

Mass was 4/10ths slower in Q3 compared to Q2. The only reason it looks as if he did a good job today was coz he was faster than Fred who for some reason was out of sorts and was also 2/10ths slower in Q3 compared to Q2.

You're right... but he was 4 tenths faster than Alonso which should normally mean that he did good!

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:56 am 
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To those of you wondering where Nico was:
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/11/14069.html wrote:
Nico Rosberg (17th, Q2 - 1m 38.501s)
“I ran our old exhaust system in qualifying today as part of our evaluation programme for next year. We had already used it yesterday and made the decision to continue for the rest of the weekend to help with the learning process. The car felt good this morning in the cool temperatures but the difference to Michael's car surprised me this afternoon. So I hope that the race pace is better tomorrow and the switch will be worth it. I will definitely push to score points.”

He was in the top 10 in all practice sessions and faster than Michael so it was a real surprise to see him qualify 17th...

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:14 am 
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gregwil wrote:
Here's some narrow mindedness for you. The world according to the people against Vettel:

Are you calling Alonso narrow minded :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:26 am 
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Impressive qualifying from Vettel and Hamilton IMO, for me the star is Vettel for handling the pressure the way he does.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:41 am 
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What Lewis did with that Mclaren had be glued to the screen wandering if he can beat Vettel. quite amazing.

Hulkenberg, Grosjean and Massa are other standouts for me


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:09 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Bakerking31 wrote:
I guess people didnt watch the onboards

Hamilton missed many apex's and had 2 lockups, Vettel had almost a perfect lap (1 small lockup but nailed the apex's). Vettel had a much better and cleaner lap.

All the stuff about the Macca being slower than the RBR is BS, watch the onboard laps and see LH compared to SV.

Maybe because the Red Bull had better traction and more downforce. Hamilton was driving on the ragged edge , to put this performance out of the car, like Damon Hill said. It looked like mistakes , but he had to scratch the limit for doing such a lap.
Vettel had not to push the limit this far in his car.

Its irrelevant. FP is for discovering the limits of the car on any particular track.

When the driver misses apex's and has lockups, they have miscalculated, not driven a 'perfect' lap, and would have given a better quali timing if they had not made these mistakes.

It is unbelievably worrying that you have to explain this to anyone on an F1 forum, it is that basics of our sport, this is not need for speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Vettel's lap was conservative, Hamilton's was on the edge. One driver had to put more effort in than the other and there was only a 10th or so in it...Hamilton

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:37 pm 
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lunatic wrote:
MM mature? i'm 38 years old


Then act your age. If you're really 38, you should have learned by now to discuss properly instead of foul-mouthing.

Quote:
let us know when you managed to drag yourself away from Vettels nuts and look and the whole picture.


What whole picture? For me, the top two qualifiers today were Vettel and Hamilton. And I'm giving Vettel the edge because he had to cope with the pressure, whereas Hamilton had nothing to lose. And that has nothing to do with me liking Vettel.

Now, should you reply, try to leave Vettel's nuts out of it and actually try to give some proper arguments as to why you feel I'm wrong. That a boy.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:41 pm 
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mds wrote:
lunatic wrote:
MM mature? i'm 38 years old


Then act your age. If you're really 38, you should have learned by now to discuss properly instead of foul-mouthing.

Quote:
let us know when you managed to drag yourself away from Vettels nuts and look and the whole picture.


What whole picture? For me, the top two qualifiers today were Vettel and Hamilton. And I'm giving Vettel the edge because he had to cope with the pressure, whereas Hamilton had nothing to lose. And that has nothing to do with me liking Vettel.

Now, should you reply, try to leave Vettel's nuts out of it and actually try to give some proper arguments as to why you feel I'm wrong. That a boy.

He really does seem to have a thing for vettels nuts doesn't he. Its all a bit awkward.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Iowa'sOnlyF1Viewer wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Vettel, Hamilton, Grosjean, Massa all did a good job.

They sure did, and my initial post shouldn't take anything away from Vettel. He beat Mark comfortably and delivered again. But no one seriously thought it would be this close!

Button did. Didn't he clearly state Macca should have the advantage ie. superior car this race? So I think Vettel did an amazing job to stay in front of the superior car.

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:54 pm 
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lunatic wrote:
mds wrote:
lunatic wrote:
mds wrote:
I'm going for Vettel, because he did what he had to do. Lewis had the better lap, but he's also free of any WDC-pressure. He has nothing to lose, making it 'easier' (if you will) to risk all in an all-or-nothing attempt. Vettel is, like Alonso, under extreme pressure and he's done a great job today.
Vettel was under no pressure, his car was over a second quicker than anyone during practice, i think he went into quali quite calm and confident.


How can you honestly say that? We're down to the last 2 races of the season, 2 title contenders split by 2/5th of a race win. OFCOURSE there is immense pressure. He might be calm and confident, but that doesn't take away any of the pressure. He wants to wrap the title up as soon as possible, and he has to place that RBR on the first row, or he'll be in trouble as the RBR is set up for leading, not for overtaking. Anything that's not the first row will expose him to a pack of drivers with far higher top speeds that will use DRS to get him.

So yes, he was under great pressure, and he delivered. That's why I give him my vote today.

By the way, free practice doesn't mean everything. Mclaren have been sandbagging before in FP, they did it again here.
His pressure is nothing compared to his competitor, he is leading by 10 points, he has seen his car become the outright best by a mile the last few races and has seen his main rival stuck in a car that is nowhere near as good as his, Vettel is under the least pressure to deliver, Adrian Newey has just won the brat another championship.

Now now, settle down snowflake...

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:29 pm 
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XRV750 wrote:
Iowa'sOnlyF1Viewer wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Vettel, Hamilton, Grosjean, Massa all did a good job.

They sure did, and my initial post shouldn't take anything away from Vettel. He beat Mark comfortably and delivered again. But no one seriously thought it would be this close!

Button did. Didn't he clearly state Macca should have the advantage ie. superior car this race? So I think Vettel did an amazing job to stay in front of the superior car.


Then are we to assume that had Button not had an issue, he would have qualified on pole? Surely that's what he believes would have happened if he felt the McLaren was superior to the Red Bull, i dont think he would have seen that though, i also doubt he would have been 3rd


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:32 pm 
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ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
Schuey & the Hulk.


Yeah good jobs by Schumacher and Hulkenberg. It will be interesting to see if they can hold Alonso behind in the race, probably not ultimately but they will hold him up for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Voted Hamilton. To be ahead of Webber and so close to Vettel was very impressive.

Even as a Kimi fan, it's a complete joke that he's got more votes than Grosjean.


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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:22 pm 
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chinki wrote:
gregwil wrote:
Here's some narrow mindedness for you. The world according to the people against Vettel:

Are you calling Alonso narrow minded :lol:
Not really, he could only be so if he had one ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Star of Quali
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:32 pm 
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mccormickja wrote:
Even as a Kimi fan, it's a complete joke that he's got more votes than Grosjean.


I was thinking the same.

:thumbup:


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