planetf1.com

I'm certainly not sorry to see the back of HRT.

I'm completely on board with those who say that F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport is an expensive endeavour. I had some sympathy for the new teams who made their bid to go into the sport on Mosley's premise of a two-tiered F1 where the second tier was cheaper. But once that changed they had the opportunity to withdraw from the sport and they didn't at which point as far as I'm concerned they made a commitment to pursuing their place in the sport under the existing costly circumstances.

I'd rather see ten or even nine more competitive teams than have more teams just making up the numbers. It was totally different in the era of pre-qualifying: all the small outfits trying to get a place on the grid added an element of excitement in and of itself AND it was genuinely possible for a small-time racing outfit to turn up a couple of times and have a go. HRT have shown no genuine signs of improvement over the time they've participated. If the 107% rule was applied to the pole time or if the frontrunners were running the softer tyre in Q1 HRT would have missed out on more occasions than they have. I've personally grown tired of how much the backmarker teams generally interfere with the frontrunners and I'd rather a processional race than one where the only excitement is getting nervous when the frontrunners come up to lap the backmarkers.

I still don't understand their decision to be based in Spain and a 'Spanish' team. Granted Santander have poured a LOT of money into the sport, but surely after the GFC and with the troubles in Spain that was clearly an anomaly and the detrimental side of doing that - lack of appeal to other investors, difficulty in leasing, finding and even selling assets to other entites, problems convincing potential employees to move - outweighed any benefits. It sounds to me as though not being able to find an investor to buy the team they'll look to sell the assets.

I do feel sorry for the employees and I think it's particularly dreadful if HRT were offering positions and encouraging people to move when this was already on the cards. It makes me wonder if they looked at investing in people to make the team seem more attractive to a potential investor, without any thought for the consequences for those who took up the positions in good faith. It reminds me a bit - not quite on the same scale - of USF1.

@ashley313 - loved reading your comments in this thread.

_________________
Formerly kai_

_________________

+1 They're just embarrassing themselves and everyone they represent.

Sorry about your friend, hope that he manages to get back into F1 and financially on his feet.

As for HRT, I will find it hard to miss them...at least Minardi had a chance of points if the car was reliable but HRT were always so far behind they didn't have that, even with points down to 10th position. Minardi could get cars into the top 6 sometimes.

The goalposts were moved after HRT joined with the budget cap not being implemented, that much is true but Lotus/Caterham and Marussia are still here.

Good luck to all the HRT employees in finding employment elsewhere, even though the team was a few seconds off the pace all the time, it doesn't mean those people weren't working very hard and all when spending a lot of time a long distance away from their families on low pay.

Good riddance.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Rosberg - Bottas

To be more precise: they were sold a 40mn budget cap, and planned their operation accordingly, before any such thing was agreed with any of the other teams, and during which the other teams threatened to break away and set their own series up unless (among other demands) the budget cap was eliminated in favour of more incremental cost cutting measures.

In this way, the FIA (and more specifically Max Mosley, who presided over this nonsense) acted irresponsibly. The aim was to create a Cosworth -powered bloc within the sport that could dilute the power of the manufacturers. Well, most of the manufacturers have buggered off anyway, the new teams were financially cash strapped and have never reached Q2 in normal dry conditions so much as once. Furthermore, the whole application process simply alienated more established organisations.

The sport remains as financially perilous as ever - not because those nasty teams won't agree to a budget cap but because the FIA sold the rights to F1 for peanuts to a man who has since managed to contrive to allow venture capitalists to suck half of the sport's proceeds up, whereas in other sports such as football the teams receive around 80% of the revenues. Meanwhile more and more fly away races simply add to costs. This is why small teams like HRT can't survive.

So, 11 teams

They did have the choice to leave, how ever once they signed up I believe that choice also came with a hefty bill from the FIA.

So the choices were give it a go and give the investors some sort of exposure and hope the hell it works out.

Bail out, all the money already invested is for nowt plus have to spend more money to give to the FIA but get absolutely nothing back in return.

The second option I can't see the investors being too happy with for all we know there were contractual obligations to the investors that couldn't be backed out of.

Considering this is the FIRST YEAR they have been last in the WCC. They haven't exactly been the worst of the three new teams.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

The view I've taken is that legally they should always have had an out. If they signed any sort of MoU regarding the two-tiered system and budget cap then they would have had an easy get-out clause that would have required the FIA and FOM to refund any monies paid for entry and, potentially, left those two entities open to a lawsuit about any money spent developing the team on that premise. If they didn't have any sort of written confirmation about that two-tiered system then they were daft; in business you don't commit until you have the paperwork in order first and at such a high level anybody involved should be business-minded enough to know that. The same goes for any investors who put their money forward to support the entity.

_________________
Formerly kai_

We asked the same question but he'd been impressed by their HQ and people and fancied an adventure. Still cant get over the fact they were actively hiring at a time when the senior people must have seen the writing on the wall.

Very disappointed with some of the comments here. For me, HRT going bust is a sign that much more needs to be done in the cost cutting department to safeguard the sport's long term future and make it sustainable financially. Some people here seem to believe that the millions required to run an F1 team can just materialise out of nowhere, or that there is an endless queue of people willing to pump substantial amounts of cash into a team for little financial return. Well HRT have just proved that that is not the case. A number of other teams are rumoured to be in trouble as well and that is very worrying. I worry about Mercedes' long term commitment; signing Hamilton will have bought some time but I'd be willing to bet that if 2014 is a disappointment then they'll pull the plug on the whole operation. Where would Williams and Sauber be without PDVSA and Telmex respectively? A lot of the teams seem to be running at a loss and that is a ticking time bomb.

I think Bernie could ease this situation considerably by distributing the commercial revenue more fairly. I'm not aware of any other sport where a holding company takes half the TV money for themselves. It's a ridiculous arrangement quite frankly and does the sport no good at all.

As for HRT I'm certainly sorry to see them go. With their resources they did well to stay on the grid with a respectable level of performance for three years, but have ultimately fallen foul of poor management from the owners. Clearly they thought they could make a profit from running an F1 team, but unfortunately that is simply not the case. I feel that if they'd stuck with Colin Kolles they might have succeeded, but it's hard to criticise them for that decision when we don't know the precise reasons behind it.

Unless more is done to make the sport more financially suatainable, I think HRT will be the first of several and it'll be 2009 all over again where we don't know if we'll have enough cars on the grid for the following year. And no, 3 car teams is NOT the answer

Bloody hell I remember that. Used to watch F1 around my grandparents house. Must have only been about 12 years old when JB joined. I recall being all hyped up about another british driver, and wanted him to win...and he didnt and I could't understand why, despite my grandparents trying to explain that he was in a poor car and a new driver

I feel old

_________________

was reading on a forum that McLaren may buy them as a sister team

Goodnight sweet (HRT) prince.

If there is any resemblance of truth in that claim, things won't bode well for Marussia.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

And help them block championship contenders. Cool.

Hello, you must be new. Welcome to the history of politics in F1.

_________________

I can imagine Vettel being the happiest man in the world if HRT are not on the grid next year.

_________________
Olê, olê, olê olêêêê Senna, Senna

We talk this and what happens when they show up on the grid next season?
Factory closing is not a surprise to me to be honest. The season is done. They might has well be closing early and save the cost as much as possible and start working after holidays again.
Now they know for the fact that they can have pretty much same car as their current one with little more work and have no problem for next season. Free DRS in Quali, DDRS are banned. So they will actually have easier time to qualify next season. So it will actually make sense for even a new outfit to buy this team and directly start working on 2014 car.
I dont know if that will happen or not, but losing team no matter which team is never a good sign for F1. And as far as F1 teams are concerned, I have more respect for HRT than Torro Rosso.

Isn't DRS banned for qualifying next season?

_________________

If people on this board have friends who have been let go from the team it sounds pretty real to me.

_________________

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. With DRS and DDRS gone, they wont have too many issues qualifying within 107% and in theory should have it more easy. Their DRS was least efficient of the pack, in fact their entire aero package was too basic.

@ashley313, I will believe it when I see FIA entry list for next season or official statement from HRT that they are done. Forum is a last place to get the source of a news.

I call bollocks on that.

_________________

I second that bollocks.

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

Third! If someone McLaren-related buys HRT, I suspect it would be Carlos. Spanish...Mexican...close enough?

_________________

McLaren have a technical partnership with Marussia. They won't be buying HRT.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

I will be sad to see them go. They qualified within 107% for all but a couple races and this will be the first year they finish last in the standings. With a shoestring budget and the front end of the grid constantly improving, to qualify in almost every race, and finish well enough to not be last the first two years, those are feats to be proud of. It is too bad they couldn't have been better led or find a buyer.

+1 I'm sad to see them go, they're really passionate about their racing.

_________________
Lewis Hamilton - 2008 World Drivers Champion! Mercedes - 10 Grand Prix Victories.

Completely disagree, and I think F1 would've disappeared already if they did what you want. There would be like two or three teams left, spending trillions, and no one would care about a 6 car procession, so it would all be over and dead. Nice thinking there

More teams = more drivers = more fans = more popularity.

_________________

No clue at all

Actually HRT were doing a GOOD job considering the ridiculously low budget they had. They were close to Marussia for a lot of races. In some of them they were a bit faster. And Marussia, having a low budget for F1, has still a much higher budget than HRT.

Maybe DRB-HICOM will buy them and bring back the Team Lotus name

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

I didn't say they should spend trillions, I said F1 should be expensive. What makes the formula special if they aren't spending the kind of cash necessary to innovate at the highest level? Nothing. There will always be a couple of big teams outspending the rest. Capping them all at an IndyCar budget dumbs down all of the design and technology development, which dumbs down the racing, and stifles the teams' ability to create things that crossover into other racing formats and road cars. Most of the manufacturers involved in the sport need that crossover to be relevant. They can't sell the investment to their boards without a tangible value to their main business beyond mere advertising.

The only reason teams like Ferrari are calling for cost cutting measures right now is because they are worried their engine buyers won't be able to afford the new and more expensive 2014 power plants, and with Cosworth not supplying teams, are probably hoping to pick up a few more customers.

Further, if you make it impossible for teams to gain an advantage through spending on development, you lose the incentive for the current generation of talent to stay involved. Why should the Adrian Newey's and Paddy Lowe's and Pat Fry's hang around to go backward? We've seen proof that newer generations don't have that talent yet to produce the best cars - if you take away THEIR ability to try new things with development they will never get a chance to learn to be as good or better.

_________________

The people that work at HRT are clearly hugely talented. In 2010 they didn't have any updates on their car at all yet the gap to the next team came down considerably throughout the season with Virgin and Lotus bringing regular updates. Again, 2011 didn't see too many updates yet Liuzzi and Ricciardo outqualified Virgins regularly. This year they took it Marussia early in the season, although Marussia seem to have gotten their act together now it was still a respectable job.

With a half decent designer and the budget for regular they could have at least beaten Caterham who don't seem to have achieved much at all considering where they started. I was also looking forward to their driver line up next year, Super Pedro and Ma Qing Hua to fly the flag for the Chinese. Then when Ma proved to be crap a rotating door for drivers 2010 style; always enjoy fresh faces!

I will miss them.

_________________
Official Kamui Kobayashi Fanboy

quick, someone buy it!

He is more like a Lebanese Mexican. I can never see Carlos buying an f1 team. He just can't do bad investments.

GOODBYE KARTHIKEYAN!! What a waste of time and effort.

They didnt build that...thats a rented place...caja magica madrid

_________________

Then put a budget cap of £1m on next year and get 40 teams to race. By your maths it'll be twice as popular as it was this year

That's such a ridiculous fallacy. There is no possible way that you could get three teams spending trillions on a 6-car race that no-one watches thus has no prize/sponsorship money.