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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:00 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
Lojik wrote:
healey wrote:
I actually have alot of sympathy for the situation Piquet Jnr found himself in. He was 23 and was railroaded into his actions by a thoroughly unscrupulous Briatore. Of course he should have known better, but I don't see why he should pay for it for the rest of his life.

He's now doing very well in Nascar trucks, plus he entered two Nationwide races this year and won one of them. The guy clearly has talent, it just a shame he had the misfortune to get involved with Briatore during his F1 stint.


I kind of agree. It's very easy to judge, but really nobody has the faintest idea the pressure he was under or even perhaps the full truth of the circumstances. We all like to think we do the right thing all the time, but honestly most people don't. He did a dumb thing and has been punished, but in the grand scheme of things he's hardly a terrible human being.

Pressure or no pressure. There are certain lines you dont cross. That was one of them. Not only he was not good enough to warrant the seat on merit, he had no business putting other people or himself in the position where he agrees to cause a major crash.
Blocking, pitting, letting team mate by, being aggressive on track are all fine. But to cause a crash on purpose regardless who ordered it is an ultimate sin in modern F1. How FIA agreed for plea and immunity against information is beyond me. And Singapore government not wanting a drama let him walk. He is lucky to be free in the world.
Spying, cheating, lying all can be forgiven, this cant. We are talking about possibility of immediate bodily harm to people. Not just for drivers but for spectators who are closest to the whole track action than anywhere else in the world at Singapore.
Not to mention he managed to come out of whole thing with fat pay cheque thanks to the lawsuit is disgusting. I have no sympathy for him.

Where to begin..?

Senna & Schumacher, both giants in the sport, both in the top 5, if not 3, of the majority of Formula One fans around the world. Few would dispute their right to be recognised as among the greats of F1 and the sport has been richer for having them in it. Yet both deliberately caused accidents by crashing into other cars during a race. Not just crashing into a wall on their own, risking damage to themselves only, but actually using their cars as guided missiles to take out another competitor. It's arguable that there is no greater example of trying to cause actual bodily harm to other people, and these guys did it for personal gain. They weren't under any pressure by their teams, there was no outside influence pushing them into a corner. No, they did it because they wanted to win at all costs.

Now I'm a fan of both drivers, although I find those actions hard to stomach. Yet I cannot for the life of me understand the hypocrisy of demanding Nelson's head on a plate for what he did when he was clearly a man under enormous psychological pressure, while allowing Senna and Schumacher a free pass for whatever reason.

NPJ was an idiot. He shouldn't have done what he did, no question. But he put nobody at risk other than himself and arguably committed a far lesser crime than the two I just mentioned. He deserved to be punished, as did they. But he doesn't deserve to be constantly vilified and put in the stocks. He paid for his actions. People need to get over it and off their high horses on this.

I think there's a world of difference between Senna/Schumi taking competitors out, and NP's actions.

Senna (IIRC) made it clear that he was so angry that he would take Prost out if Prost was ahead of him in the first corner? As far as I can recall, he wasn't penalised for this as it was more acceptable at the time.

Schumi made a spur of the moment decision(s), knowing that he needed to beat JV (Hill?) to win the WDC.

NP, on the other hand, agreed to crash (after '07 when the stewards had made it clear it was not acceptable under ANY circumstances) when asked by the team[i][/i]for no other reason than to improve his chances of being retained by Renault!

I'm sorry, I really do not understand your logic at all. It was OK for Senna because he was angry but not for Nelson because he wanted to keep his seat? How on earth is that a basis to judge anyone?

Both were wrong. I mentioned Senna and Schumacher not to drag them down but to show how hypocritical it is to constantly bash Nelson while making allowances for them because, if we're honest, they were exceptionally talented.

Nelson has paid for what he did and doesn't really deserve the constant bitching and derogatory remarks that he gets, often for things unrelated to his actions. He threw away a promising career and should be allowed to try to rebuild it if he can. The others did.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:13 am 
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Regarding what Piquet "the cheat" jr said: I haven't read so much bs in a f1 article in my whole life. It utterly surpasses whatever Helmut Marko ever squealed in his life.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:18 am 
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Darkwing wrote:
Regarding what Piquet "the cheat" jr said: I haven't read so much bs in a f1 article in my whole life. It utterly surpasses whatever Helmut Marko ever squealed in his life.

Really? Then I suggest you don't read an awful lot? What did he say that was so controversial? Or was it simply the fact that he said it that put your back up?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:39 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Darkwing wrote:
Regarding what Piquet "the cheat" jr said: I haven't read so much bs in a f1 article in my whole life. It utterly surpasses whatever Helmut Marko ever squealed in his life.

Really? Then I suggest you don't read an awful lot? What did he say that was so controversial? Or was it simply the fact that he said it that put your back up?


For example the fact that an f1 driver(it doesn't matter whether it's Alonso or anyone else) could win this year's title in a Sauber. Marko had better jokes.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:07 am 
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His fondness of Alonso makes me think they were pals at Renault and together along with Flavio conspired the crash gate.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:34 am 
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Darkwing wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Darkwing wrote:
Regarding what Piquet "the cheat" jr said: I haven't read so much bs in a f1 article in my whole life. It utterly surpasses whatever Helmut Marko ever squealed in his life.

Really? Then I suggest you don't read an awful lot? What did he say that was so controversial? Or was it simply the fact that he said it that put your back up?


For example the fact that an f1 driver(it doesn't matter whether it's Alonso or anyone else) could win this year's title in a Sauber. Marko had better jokes.


That was a retarded statement i agree.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:36 am 
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F1yer wrote:
Bullshit. He is a cheater and should have been in jail


lol.

who's the cheater.. someone who crashed because he was asked by his team, or someone who 'didn't even know' that he's going to stop earlier than the rest.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:44 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Guccio wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Bullshit. He is a cheater and should have been in jail


:thumbup: Along with Alonso


:lol: get over it, seriously


Facts are facts

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:48 am 
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Guccio wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Guccio wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Bullshit. He is a cheater and should have been in jail


:thumbup: Along with Alonso


:lol: get over it, seriously


Facts are facts

It's hard to take you seriously with this anti-Alonso crusade you're on.
You're not the only one either.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:52 am 
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Toby. wrote:
The comments he made were pretty reasonable. I'm not sure why we're criticising the man and not analysing what he said.


:thumbup: Couldn't agree more. I guess there are some folk here who can only vent their anger through internet forums :? By their logic we shouldn't ever take Micheal Schumacher's words seriously because he remains the only WDC ever to be disqualified from an entire World Champoinship season for so called "cheating"...

I think Piquet's evaluation of the STR drivers is spot on.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:56 am 
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Love some sections of F1 fans.. They can have an opinion on anything F1 related but nobody that has actually competed in F1 can have one if A) they don't agree with it or B) it's someone they don't like!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:26 am 
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Last edited by F1yer on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:30 am 
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And since people are so insistent - I went to the link provided and lo and behold the first line gives it all away.

Alonso would win the title in Sauber !! - Can you get more ridiculous than that? Even when Ferrari was better than Sauber in Monza , Perez (almost a rookie) handed Alonso his as$.

Then the truck-driver goes on to say that Perez will struggle against Jenson. We will bookmark this thread and see Perez hand it to Jenson


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:36 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
Is anyone interested in what the spineless Piquet has to say these days?

yes,i'd rather hear him than alot of ill informed forumers....yes he cheated but what has that got to do with his opinion on drivers today?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:39 am 
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Toby. wrote:
The comments he made were pretty reasonable. I'm not sure why we're criticising the man and not analysing what he said.

because for some,analysing what was said would mean to actually read the article.....we know that won't happen.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:43 am 
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F1yer wrote:
And since people are so insistent - I went to the link provided and lo and behold the first line gives it all away.

Alonso would win the title in Sauber !! - Can you get more ridiculous than that? Even when Ferrari was better than Sauber in Monza , Perez (almost a rookie) handed Alonso his as$.

Then the truck-driver goes on to say that Perez will struggle against Jenson. We will bookmark this thread and see Perez hand it to Jenson

never knew he drove trucks....i thought he was a race car driver and not a trucker,some of you really need to not speak if you don't know anything you speak about.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:10 am 
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nike2die4 wrote:
F1yer wrote:
And since people are so insistent - I went to the link provided and lo and behold the first line gives it all away.

Alonso would win the title in Sauber !! - Can you get more ridiculous than that? Even when Ferrari was better than Sauber in Monza , Perez (almost a rookie) handed Alonso his as$.

Then the truck-driver goes on to say that Perez will struggle against Jenson. We will bookmark this thread and see Perez hand it to Jenson

never knew he drove trucks....i thought he was a race car driver and not a trucker,some of you really need to not speak if you don't know anything you speak about.


He is a truck racer - what else can one say abt that?

And teh article is simply blowing smoke up Alonso's rear - nothing more. Yes he has driven consistently but no way he is been better than Vettel or Hamilton this year.

Its all pure luck and manipulations from the team that he is still in the hunt .. if he does manage to win due to fortune cookie crumbling his way as is the pattern this season - it will be purely a "lucky " title for him.

Honestly - even if you beleive that his car is half a sec behind (which is debatable as it is), he finishes about 39 secs behind the leaders over 60 odd laps. Whats so great about that?

All his wins have come when faster cars have broken down in front- whats so special about that.

Actually - now I m inclined to agree with Piquet - that he might have won in a Sauber - provided all the guys in front met with DNFs and ran into each other and Alonso can slowly and steadily cross the line to step on the podium every race!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:20 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
F1yer wrote:
And since people are so insistent - I went to the link provided and lo and behold the first line gives it all away.

Alonso would win the title in Sauber !! - Can you get more ridiculous than that? Even when Ferrari was better than Sauber in Monza , Perez (almost a rookie) handed Alonso his as$.

Then the truck-driver goes on to say that Perez will struggle against Jenson. We will bookmark this thread and see Perez hand it to Jenson

never knew he drove trucks....i thought he was a race car driver and not a trucker,some of you really need to not speak if you don't know anything you speak about.


He is a truck racer - what else can one say abt that?

And teh article is simply blowing smoke up Alonso's rear - nothing more. Yes he has driven consistently but no way he is been better than Vettel or Hamilton this year.

Its all pure luck and manipulations from the team that he is still in the hunt .. if he does manage to win due to fortune cookie crumbling his way as is the pattern this season - it will be purely a "lucky " title for him.

Honestly - even if you beleive that his car is half a sec behind (which is debatable as it is), he finishes about 39 secs behind the leaders over 60 odd laps. Whats so great about that?

All his wins have come when faster cars have broken down in front- whats so special about that.

Actually - now I m inclined to agree with Piquet - that he might have won in a Sauber - provided all the guys in front met with DNFs and ran into each other and Alonso can slowly and steadily cross the line to step on the podium every race!

you use the term "truck racer" to diminish what he does,if you knew anything about that series you won't look down at it as you do,yes it's one of the lower series in NASCAR but the big names in NASCAR have all competed in that series...it's funny seeing how people get bent out of shape because a human being dare give his own opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
wow, some people do like the moral high ground.

To answer the OP, NPJ seems genuinely in awe of Alonso's speed and it's pretty honest of him to admit that he simply couldn't touch Alonso at all on track. So I can understand his observation that other cars would be quicker based on his assumption that Alonso is naturally faster than anybody else anyway.

Agreed. :thumbup:
Whilst I have zero respect for Piquet (or his Dad), there isn't much in the article to disagree with. I too believe that in a Sauber or a Renault Alonso would have performed better than any of their 4 drivers this season. Maybe not by enough to win the WDC though.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Last edited by F1yer on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:33 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
Actually I have high respect for truck racers - Kimi drove one and that showed us - how difficult that is. But it is still not comparable to F1.

In fact - my argument is why is he even allowed to do that? Clearly FIA dont control truck series and US authorities do not give 2 hoots if the person is proven guilty of crashing deliberate;y

i don't get why he shouldn't be allowed to race trucks...for one the NASCAR is not governed by the FIA,they have nothing to do with each other,it's not like he is a fugitive on the run or something.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:40 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Actually I have high respect for truck racers - Kimi drove one and that showed us - how difficult that is. But it is still not comparable to F1.

In fact - my argument is why is he even allowed to do that? Clearly FIA dont control truck series and US authorities do not give 2 hoots if the person is proven guilty of crashing deliberate;y

i don't get why he shouldn't be allowed to race trucks...for one the NASCAR is not governed by the FIA,they have nothing to do with each other,it's not like he is a fugitive on the run or something.


NASCAR is under ACCUS which is affiliated with the FIA. Americas version of the MSA.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:41 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
purchville wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The comments he made were pretty reasonable. I'm not sure why we're criticising the man and not analysing what he said.


:thumbup: Couldn't agree more. I guess there are some folk here who can only vent their anger through internet forums :? By their logic we shouldn't ever take Micheal Schumacher's words seriously because he remains the only WDC ever to be disqualified from an entire World Champoinship season for so called "cheating"...

I think Piquet's evaluation of the STR drivers is spot on.


I dont. MS is also guilty of the same crime as NP - putting lives at risk by deliberate crashing. I dont know if it was proven or not but NPs crime was proven.

Its staggering that he went scot free and is still following his original occupation - racing. And people blame fat cats and bankers.

He did a stupid thing but he's hardly got off scot free. He's pretty much had to start over again. And for the nth time he crashed his own car, putting only himself at risk, which is a world away from targeting other drivers like Senna and MSC did. They were allowed to continue and their transgressions were largely overlooked afterwards by most - why should Piquet merit more sanctions than they?

And as others have pointed out, what does any of that have to do with him voicing an opinion of Alonso this season? Irrespective of anything he may have done, you can't argue that he is far better placed than most to judge Alonso's talent having raced against him


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Actually I have high respect for truck racers - Kimi drove one and that showed us - how difficult that is. But it is still not comparable to F1.

In fact - my argument is why is he even allowed to do that? Clearly FIA dont control truck series and US authorities do not give 2 hoots if the person is proven guilty of crashing deliberate;y

i don't get why he shouldn't be allowed to race trucks...for one the NASCAR is not governed by the FIA,they have nothing to do with each other,it's not like he is a fugitive on the run or something.


NASCAR is under ACCUS which is affiliated with the FIA. Americas version of the MSA.

but FIA do not govern NASCAR and have no control whatsoever over NASCAR.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:47 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Actually I have high respect for truck racers - Kimi drove one and that showed us - how difficult that is. But it is still not comparable to F1.

In fact - my argument is why is he even allowed to do that? Clearly FIA dont control truck series and US authorities do not give 2 hoots if the person is proven guilty of crashing deliberate;y

i don't get why he shouldn't be allowed to race trucks...for one the NASCAR is not governed by the FIA,they have nothing to do with each other,it's not like he is a fugitive on the run or something.


NASCAR is under ACCUS which is affiliated with the FIA. Americas version of the MSA.

but FIA do not govern NASCAR and have no control whatsoever over NASCAR.



NASCAR runs under ACCUS ACCUS is the FIAs American Liaison.

Much the same way as the BTCC is under MSA which is the British Liaison of the FIA.

http://www.accusfia.us/member_clubs.html

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:44 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
And teh article is simply blowing smoke up Alonso's rear - nothing more. Yes he has driven consistently but no way he is been better than Vettel or Hamilton this year.

Its all pure luck and manipulations from the team that he is still in the hunt .. if he does manage to win due to fortune cookie crumbling his way as is the pattern this season - it will be purely a "lucky " title for him.

Honestly - even if you beleive that his car is half a sec behind (which is debatable as it is), he finishes about 39 secs behind the leaders over 60 odd laps. Whats so great about that?

All his wins have come when faster cars have broken down in front- whats so special about that.

Actually - now I m inclined to agree with Piquet - that he might have won in a Sauber - provided all the guys in front met with DNFs and ran into each other and Alonso can slowly and steadily cross the line to step on the podium every race!

The non-stop praise that Alonso has been getting from all quarters this season must really be hurting

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:09 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
F1yer wrote:
And teh article is simply blowing smoke up Alonso's rear - nothing more. Yes he has driven consistently but no way he is been better than Vettel or Hamilton this year.

Its all pure luck and manipulations from the team that he is still in the hunt .. if he does manage to win due to fortune cookie crumbling his way as is the pattern this season - it will be purely a "lucky " title for him.

Honestly - even if you beleive that his car is half a sec behind (which is debatable as it is), he finishes about 39 secs behind the leaders over 60 odd laps. Whats so great about that?

All his wins have come when faster cars have broken down in front- whats so special about that.

Actually - now I m inclined to agree with Piquet - that he might have won in a Sauber - provided all the guys in front met with DNFs and ran into each other and Alonso can slowly and steadily cross the line to step on the podium every race!

The non-stop praise that Alonso has been getting from all quarters this season must really be hurting


The problem is non-stop baseless praise which is irritatting. Wont say hurting though coz the title is going to the deserving candidate anyway .


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Chunky wrote:
Zoue wrote:
wow, some people do like the moral high ground.

To answer the OP, NPJ seems genuinely in awe of Alonso's speed and it's pretty honest of him to admit that he simply couldn't touch Alonso at all on track. So I can understand his observation that other cars would be quicker based on his assumption that Alonso is naturally faster than anybody else anyway.

Agreed. :thumbup:
Whilst I have zero respect for Piquet (or his Dad), there isn't much in the article to disagree with. I too believe that in a Sauber or a Renault Alonso would have performed better than any of their 4 drivers this season. Maybe not by enough to win the WDC though.


believe must be back with facts.

with the way lotus run their pit stop and awful decision in calls for pit couple with wrong tyre compound chosen, i doubt he can do any better. As massa showed us, the F2012 is really good and massa even outperform alonso in austin with much better pace that matching leader despite nt having the same updates as alonso.

give credit where it was due. Eric revealed before the team he took over was very focus on Alonso, and he eager to change that hence the enstone team is very equal nowadays. Something that Alonso wont like...the way Eric willing to lose a win in bahrain than asking romain to move away quickly showed that. Ferrari wouldn't hesitate to do it unlike eric when the driver he manage is driving his car.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:29 pm 
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So if couple of drivers have been assholes in past it is ok to do so again? That is the logic the kids in kindergarten and primary school use.
And that is why I specifically used the term "Modern F1" in my previous post.
This may have been tolerated in past, but when the ultimate focus of F1 has been on safety, that behavior is unacceptable.
This is open wheel, open cockpit racing. Things like that have no place here anymore. No team would have ever signed him after the scandal and the way him and his father handled it and the money they managed to dig out of this mess.
I have more respect for Yuji Ide than NP Jr. At least Yuji Ide was incompetent.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm not sure if that's tongue in cheek or not. It was Alonso's (self) incriminating emails which pretty much put the noose around McLaren's neck. It showed that he was actively involved in the cheating but he wasn't convicted because the drivers were granted immunity for reasons which escape me

Fairly sure the reasons were that Max wanted to sink Ron.
with the amount of smoke Nelson has just blown up Alonsos pickle he must be chasing Massas seat :-P

Indeed, My thoughts entirely. Ron was never going to keep hold of that (his) team when farreri were running scared of Hamilton the designers, the aero man, Mercedes Benz and the promise of a world beating F1 car, not to mention the world beating road car.....
It's probably a pity Mercedes bottled it from that point a view.
The reasons which escape you, would they be the ones about Alonso going to farreri and Hamilton not winning the following year?
There was also the favour which they negotiated with the FIA and Renault where Renault would owe them this favour because of the Nelson Piquet jr crash and they called the favour in for their only win last season......Oh no, i'm getting confused now We weren't talking about the extra help for the "beast* team as such were we.....
Nelson Piquet jr ? good possibly he will get Massas seat in 2014


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Sorry, but how can he say "the car is not very good, but Alonso makes the difference" when Alonso qualifies so poorly, in comparison to his finishing position?! The delta is just too great - his car drives like the fastest on race day.

Clearly there's a marked difference between the car on Saturday, with no fuel, and on Sunday with a full tank of fuel.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:25 pm 
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veemax wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm not sure if that's tongue in cheek or not. It was Alonso's (self) incriminating emails which pretty much put the noose around McLaren's neck. It showed that he was actively involved in the cheating but he wasn't convicted because the drivers were granted immunity for reasons which escape me

Fairly sure the reasons were that Max wanted to sink Ron.
with the amount of smoke Nelson has just blown up Alonsos pickle he must be chasing Massas seat :-P

Indeed, My thoughts entirely. Ron was never going to keep hold of that (his) team when farreri were running scared of Hamilton the designers, the aero man, Mercedes Benz and the promise of a world beating F1 car, not to mention the world beating road car.....
It's probably a pity Mercedes bottled it from that point a view.
The reasons which escape you, would they be the ones about Alonso going to farreri and Hamilton not winning the following year?
There was also the favour which they negotiated with the FIA and Renault where Renault would owe them this favour because of the Nelson Piquet jr crash and they called the favour in for their only win last season......Oh no, i'm getting confused now We weren't talking about the extra help for the "beast* team as such were we.....
Nelson Piquet jr ? good possibly he will get Massas seat in 2014

I don't mean to be rude but I've re-read your post a few times and I can't understand what you're trying to say. I can't make head or tail of it, sorry :?

just to answer the bit referring to my post I did mention earlier that I was being tongue in cheek. I do know why but it effectively shows it was politically motivated more than anything else


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:38 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
So if couple of drivers have been assholes in past it is ok to do so again? That is the logic the kids in kindergarten and primary school use.And that is why I specifically used the term "Modern F1" in my previous post.
This may have been tolerated in past, but when the ultimate focus of F1 has been on safety, that behavior is unacceptable.
This is open wheel, open cockpit racing. Things like that have no place here anymore. No team would have ever signed him after the scandal and the way him and his father handled it and the money they managed to dig out of this mess.
I have more respect for Yuji Ide than NP Jr. At least Yuji Ide was incompetent.

Actually, I could say the same in reverse. No-one ever said it was ok do do it - I defy you to find any comment in support of Piquet's actions. However in the adult world it's not uncommon to expect a certain consistency of approach. And while Piquet should be rightly condemned for his actions I find the sanctimonious tub thumping a little excessive when people like Senna and Schumacher, among the most respected drivers in the sport, committed arguably an even worse offence as they deliberately involved other cars, yet no-one is calling for them to be hanged from the nearest yardarm. Piquet did his crime and has been punished. There's no need to continue to bash the guy, and if he wants to voice an opinion he should be able to without people getting all holier-than-thou on him


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
So if couple of drivers have been assholes in past it is ok to do so again? That is the logic the kids in kindergarten and primary school use.And that is why I specifically used the term "Modern F1" in my previous post.
This may have been tolerated in past, but when the ultimate focus of F1 has been on safety, that behavior is unacceptable.
This is open wheel, open cockpit racing. Things like that have no place here anymore. No team would have ever signed him after the scandal and the way him and his father handled it and the money they managed to dig out of this mess.
I have more respect for Yuji Ide than NP Jr. At least Yuji Ide was incompetent.

Actually, I could say the same in reverse. No-one ever said it was ok do do it - I defy you to find any comment in support of Piquet's actions. However in the adult world it's not uncommon to expect a certain consistency of approach. And while Piquet should be rightly condemned for his actions I find the sanctimonious tub thumping a little excessive when people like Senna and Schumacher, among the most respected drivers in the sport, committed arguably an even worse offence as they deliberately involved other cars, yet no-one is calling for them to be hanged from the nearest yardarm. Piquet did his crime and has been punished. There's no need to continue to bash the guy, and if he wants to voice an opinion he should be able to without people getting all holier-than-thou on him

I have no problem with his opinion. I dont care about it and in fact I actually do believe that Alonso is the best driver out there right now. My original post was in response to the post which stated we dont understand the pressure he was under to justify his actions. That has no excuse. No reason, no explanation will justify what he did. And he will never get any sympathy, respect or kind words regarding any matter because of that from me. Not to mention he never showed any glimpse of an exceptional talent like the Senna or Schumacher who showed their talent well before they committed their sins. Even their talent did not excuse them from the criticism from public, press and fans. Who is Piquet Jr then? Why should people refrain from bashing or criticizing him?
Usually I dont like to say any bad words towards any driver, not even drivers who are beating the team I support, but Piquet Jr. boils my blood. That man has no place in F1.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
veemax wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm not sure if that's tongue in cheek or not. It was Alonso's (self) incriminating emails which pretty much put the noose around McLaren's neck. It showed that he was actively involved in the cheating but he wasn't convicted because the drivers were granted immunity for reasons which escape me

Fairly sure the reasons were that Max wanted to sink Ron.
with the amount of smoke Nelson has just blown up Alonsos pickle he must be chasing Massas seat :-P

Indeed, My thoughts entirely. Ron was never going to keep hold of that (his) team when farreri were running scared of Hamilton the designers, the aero man, Mercedes Benz and the promise of a world beating F1 car, not to mention the world beating road car.....
It's probably a pity Mercedes bottled it from that point a view.
The reasons which escape you, would they be the ones about Alonso going to farreri and Hamilton not winning the following year?
There was also the favour which they negotiated with the FIA and Renault where Renault would owe them this favour because of the Nelson Piquet jr crash and they called the favour in for their only win last season......Oh no, i'm getting confused now We weren't talking about the extra help for the "beast* team as such were we.....
Nelson Piquet jr ? good possibly he will get Massas seat in 2014

I don't mean to be rude but I've re-read your post a few times and I can't understand what you're trying to say. I can't make head or tail of it, sorry :?

just to answer the bit referring to my post I did mention earlier that I was being tongue in cheek. I do know why but it effectively shows it was politically motivated more than anything else

Sorry, I was called out, I was also joking.....Tongue in cheek etc I was looking for an :incheek: icon when the phone rang!
I'm going to leave it there, it looks a whole mess...sorry!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:12 pm 
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sgt.hartman wrote:
Sorry, but how can he say "the car is not very good, but Alonso makes the difference" when Alonso qualifies so poorly, in comparison to his finishing position?! The delta is just too great - his car drives like the fastest on race day.

Clearly there's a marked difference between the car on Saturday, with no fuel, and on Sunday with a full tank of fuel.

Also in comparison to his teammate as of late.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:30 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
The problem is non-stop baseless praise which is irritatting. Wont say hurting though coz the title is going to the deserving candidate anyway .

Ya that's not really true though.

I mean nearly every expert out there has signalled Alonso out as the man of the season. Need to clear that red mist from your eyes and start seeing the truth.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:41 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
So if couple of drivers have been assholes in past it is ok to do so again? That is the logic the kids in kindergarten and primary school use.And that is why I specifically used the term "Modern F1" in my previous post.
This may have been tolerated in past, but when the ultimate focus of F1 has been on safety, that behavior is unacceptable.
This is open wheel, open cockpit racing. Things like that have no place here anymore. No team would have ever signed him after the scandal and the way him and his father handled it and the money they managed to dig out of this mess.
I have more respect for Yuji Ide than NP Jr. At least Yuji Ide was incompetent.

Actually, I could say the same in reverse. No-one ever said it was ok do do it - I defy you to find any comment in support of Piquet's actions. However in the adult world it's not uncommon to expect a certain consistency of approach. And while Piquet should be rightly condemned for his actions I find the sanctimonious tub thumping a little excessive when people like Senna and Schumacher, among the most respected drivers in the sport, committed arguably an even worse offence as they deliberately involved other cars, yet no-one is calling for them to be hanged from the nearest yardarm. Piquet did his crime and has been punished. There's no need to continue to bash the guy, and if he wants to voice an opinion he should be able to without people getting all holier-than-thou on him

I have no problem with his opinion. I dont care about it and in fact I actually do believe that Alonso is the best driver out there right now. My original post was in response to the post which stated we dont understand the pressure he was under to justify his actions. That has no excuse. No reason, no explanation will justify what he did. And he will never get any sympathy, respect or kind words regarding any matter because of that from me. Not to mention he never showed any glimpse of an exceptional talent like the Senna or Schumacher who showed their talent well before they committed their sins. Even their talent did not excuse them from the criticism from public, press and fans. Who is Piquet Jr then? Why should people refrain from bashing or criticizing him?
Usually I dont like to say any bad words towards any driver, not even drivers who are beating the team I support, but Piquet Jr. boils my blood. That man has no place in F1.

So despite what you claim what you really mean is that it's OK for the others but not for Piquet because in your opinion he's not talented enough to get away with it.

He should be criticised, but any more than the others are is hypocritical :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:47 am 
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No, my point is there is no excuse for what he did irrespective of past actions of any driver. And others have paid price for their actions. To an extent of losing championships. Schumacher got himself disqualified for something that Senna got away with in past. That is called change with time. And in modern F1 there is no place for crashing on purpose endangering anyone's life. Just because someone did it in past and still managed to make impressive career following the incident does not justify doing something similar again.
There is absolutely no defence for his actions. If we start defending or justifying that, the things will take turn for worse in F1.
The reason people are very critical of him is the fact that he did not think things through. We have had Marshall deaths and injuries in F1 and GP2 not that long ago. Have lost young drivers to freak accidents due to loose wheels and parts. Things like that can't be predicted. That alone should deter anyone from crashing on purpose.
What he did was stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, reckless and incredibly selfish and has no place in the sport.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:33 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
NP, on the other hand, agreed to crash (after '07 when the stewards had made it clear it was not acceptable under ANY circumstances) when asked by the team[i][/i]for no other reason than to improve his chances of being retained by Renault!

There is indeed a world of difference between what Senna and Schumacher did, and what Nelson Jr. did. But Piquet, to my mind at least, had by far the best reason to do what he thought he had to do. Desperation can be a very cruel advisor.

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