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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:43 pm 
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RebellionLola wrote:
sauber just lost thousands of japanese fans , they were the only team to hold this recognition of the only exciting japanese driver , just watch the crowd reaction after the podium in suzuka


Yeah, they should keep Kobayashi forever because of some nationalistic crap. Who cares they think Gutierrez has as good CV as Kobayashi, if not even better, before entering F1 AND delivers money? Nah, they should keep Kobayashi eventhough they have tons of data to know how fast he really is, just to please his fans and Japan.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:50 pm 
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I personally don't really rate Gutierrez, and while I can never say I was a huge fan of KK, I think he's shown decent enough speed in his time in F1 to warrant a place on the grid next season. Then again, so have other drivers who have found themselves without a seat in the past. Tell you what, though, Force India are going to have literally half a dozen decent options to partner di Resta next season. KK, Alguersuari, Sutil, possibly Kovalainen, Senna, Bianchi, and GP2 guys such as Valsecchi and Razia.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:51 pm 
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mastergee wrote:
So sad that Sauber is now owned by a drug lord!!


Kobayashi was brought to F1 thanks to Toyota, a company which was delivering trucks to Japanese army, which, as we know, was responsible for many massacres during WW2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Toyota
http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/28857- ... r-2-a.html

Ridiculous argument is ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Volantary wrote:
Maybe Vijay will take him? I don't know what his brands are like in Japan but the exposure can't hurt.


Mallya said Kobayashi is amongst available drivers on current grid who are not good enough to drive for Force India. He isn't talented enough and not quick enough:

Quote:
"We are thinking about it, but we are in no immediate hurry because there does not seem to be the kind of quality we need to replace Nico available, either in the current grid or in GP2. We have to think a little bit beyond that, which we are doing now.

"We need a driver who is clearly talented, a driver who is clearly quick. I am looking at options such as even bringing Adrian Sutil back. Adrian was always a very quick driver - yes, he was out of Formula One for one year, but I don't think that this would be a major handicap. So yes, I am looking and evaluating very carefully," he said.


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cashs ... a/1034651/


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:56 pm 
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sad for Kobyashi...was a nice character in F1 and exciting at the start....performance did seem to drop off a bit tho...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:59 pm 
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daytona81 wrote:
If this is true I have officially lost all support for Sauber. I personally hope this guys crashes out every race and if not runs with the likes of marussia and caterham. I hope FI pick him up.


Ladies and gentlemen, this is real sportsmanship.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:01 pm 
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F1Thomas wrote:
I guess you havenet watched this season. They have been very close this season, and actually Koba has lost more points due to being on the wrong end of incidents that had nothing to do with him. As someone else stated one 6th place is all that separated them and if Koba had a bit more like he would be ahead of Perez in the standings.

So overall pretty poor news for F1 unless Koba can go to another mid field team.


And you think F1 teams are full of morons, who don't know how to assess quality of the drivers.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:19 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Kobayashi has been better driver in the second half. More consistent than Perez. Bulk of Perez points came from those 3 podiums. And he has been awful in other races bar 1.
Kobayashi on the other hand has gathered points by consistent results. IN fact he is now ahead in head to head race finish positions to Perez.


Selective statistics, how good to see ya.

If Perez was awful in other races bar 1, what can be said about Kobayashi? About Singapore where Perez was full 1 second per lap faster? About India, where Perez was 5 tenths per lap faster, until he made contact with Toro Rosso (BTW All the time I heard Perez was lucky with his podiums due to perfect tyre strategy, so the question is what Kobayashi has done in India? He was on perfect tyre strategy with brand new set of tyres, his teammate was in Q3, so he started on used tyres - exactly the same situation as in Canada and Monza. So why Kobayashi was so great in India, that in a car good enough for Q3 and points, he drove from 17th to fantastic 14th at the finish? Why no podium, why no points. Lack of talent is the answer). About Abu Dhabi where although Perez's hotheadness and stupidness struck again, but he was pulling away by 5 tenths per lap from Kobayashi? About USA, where Perez struggling with fading brakes still finished 30 seconds in front of Kobayashi? And about almost all other weekends... To quote Mercedes engineer - what happened there?

Is Perez making too many mistakes lately? Hell yes. But while you can teach driver how to make less mistakes, you can't teach him speed. That's why one driver will drive for McLaren, while the other will be making sushi in his father's bar.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
He is a single 6th place finish behind the man who has just earned a Mclaren drive. This after having potentially his 2 best results of the season at Spain and Spa cruelly taken from him.

Formula 1 never was fair but it will be all the poorer without KK next season.


Heidfeld outscored Kubica in their time together at BMW, yet F1 paddock knew Heidfeld was just another journeyman, while Kubica was world class driver.

Perez dominated Kobayashi pacewise, thus he is deservedly taking McLaren seat, while Kobayashi is leaving F1, because he wasn't good enough. In a way it's a shame he's leaving, because I would love to see Hulkenberg dominating him and tons of excuses from Kobayashi fanboys (not fans, fanboys) why is it happening.


Both Sauber drivers were very evenly matched in 07, 08 and 09 although few of their fans will admit that. Heidfeld edged it in the first (Robert's debut) season, Kubica edged it in the second. Personally I'd say Kubica was the stronger because he improved more in the second season, delivering more podiums, not to mention a pole and a win. Some will disagree but that's a different topic and nothing to do with this thread.

Perez has NOT dominated Kobayashi pace wise. Perez 3 podiums have come from failing to make Q3, starting on fresh rubber with more tire options available to him and making an unusual strategy pay off. He can look after his tires well, that's where his 3 podiums came from.

Aside from those 3 podiums, Perez best result was a 6th place and guess what, that was behind Kamui who was 4th (Germany if you were wondering).

ALL of Saubers best result achieved through genuine race pace and not some bizarre strategy were achieved by Kobayashi. 4th in Germany, 5th in Barcelona, 3rd in Japan as well as 2 sixth places. He could also have had a podium in Valencia before Senna chopped his wing off and he started on the front row in Spa.

Your last sentence abotu being dominated and fanboys is just sad. Grow up.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Volantary wrote:
Ok, he's not like Alonso where he constantly outperforms the car but he has overtaking skill, can put the car in places it shouldn't be and is a really good guy as well as being amazingly consistent. Kobayashi and Hulkenberg would have been a formidable combination, Hulkenberg and Guiterrez will be effectively a 1 car team.


Bolded bit is very lol-worthy, but I guess nothing else can be expected from "Official Kamui Kobayashi Fanboy". Drivers who can put their car where they shouldn't be are wanted by other teams (see: Hulkenberg), those who can't are not. Guess in which category Kobayashi is?

As for Gutierrez, he is good enough to be within 5 tenths of Hulkenberg. That's where Kobayashi's talent is, but Mexican comes with bags of cash, so Sauber could only made one decision really.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:32 pm 
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phfft... wrote:
So both Kovalainen and Kobayashi are up for grabs. I reckon they'd make a pretty decent lineup for any team.


Yeah, team of two number 2. Like Toyota, who only left F1, because they were stupid enough to pay millions to number 2 drivers and in result achieving little success, instead of taking world class driver.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:14 am 
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Hopefully Kobayashi will get another drive.

#shouldhavebeenhiminthemclaren

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:08 am 
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Gutierrez will get the drive, nice of Perez to mention this... Kobayashi could do well at looking at Caterham for next year, Gutierrez's appointment with Sauber is over cash anyone can see this. Sauber have always been in my opinion been a sensible team in the past not amymore, shame.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:16 am 
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Good decision in my view.
Peter Sauber knows what is he doing.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:54 am 
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Toxic wrote:
Good decision in my view.
Peter Sauber knows what is he doing.

Peter Sauber isn't running the team anymore ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:58 am 
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Gutti is nth special.

Remember him screwing around in abu dhabi practice session because he doesnt know where to use DRS.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:26 am 
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It's a shame for Kobayashi but IMO he falls into the category of drivers that are good but not great and for those drivers it can be a bit hit and miss as to whether their career progresses - sometimes they get the opportunities and sometimes they don't and the difference can be a couple of standout performances.

At the moment there are a lot of promising looking young drivers on the grid - Maldonado, Grosjean, Hulkenberg and Perez - so Kobayashi faces an uphill battle to stand out amongst them and be kept or picked up by a team. If there is a distinction between him and them IMO it is experience level - he has much more so it is probably somewhat easier for teams to assess how good he is likely to become - and if a driver with less experience is showing greater flashes of potential it makes sense that they would be preferable to teams. Hence why IMO McLaren went for Perez over someone like Kobayashi.

Gutierrez is unproven at this stage, but I can see the logic of Sauber taking the opportunity to see if he has the potential and I think it's good that another young driver is being given a chance. Yes, I am sure the money plays a large part, but I also believe that if Kobayashi was good enough the money wouldn't have been as relevant.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:11 am 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
daytona81 wrote:
If this is true I have officially lost all support for Sauber. I personally hope this guys crashes out every race and if not runs with the likes of marussia and caterham. I hope FI pick him up.


Ladies and gentlemen, this is real sportsmanship.


Eh, I don't really mean it. It's just my "in the moment" anger. But seriously if he runs in the back I wouldn't mind. Lol. For saubers sake. Wiley because they are hiring him because of Slim.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:26 am 
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specdecible wrote:
Toxic wrote:
Good decision in my view.
Peter Sauber knows what is he doing.

Peter Sauber isn't running the team anymore ;)


Technically he is, until the end of the year. And there's absolutely no way he wasn't involved in that decision.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:30 am 
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Is gutirez part of any driver academy ala Ferrari?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:38 am 
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best move.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:57 am 
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http://www.sauberf1team.com/en/news.cfm ... rve_driver

Confirmation from Sauber, with Robin Frijns also confirmed as test and reserve driver.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
Perez dominated Kobayashi pacewise, thus he is deservedly taking McLaren seat, while Kobayashi is leaving F1, because he wasn't good enough. In a way it's a shame he's leaving, because I would love to see Hulkenberg dominating him and tons of excuses from Kobayashi fanboys (not fans, fanboys) why is it happening.


I hope you know more about armchairs (that is your field of expertise, right?) than you do about F1.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:12 pm 
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:( No more Koba in F1 then really. Sad day for Kamui fans.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:41 pm 
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This Gutierrez guy looks like a young kid!!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:27 pm 
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I don't think looking at it as Gutierrez replacing Kobayashi is correct. Gutierrez is replacing Perez in the Telmex seat. It's Hulkenberg who has taken the seat that doesn't need sponsorship (although he does has a bit), and I think that is entirely the correct decision.

Kobayashi's solid, but after 3 years it doesn't look like he's ever going to progress up the field on merit. And Sauber have always been about exciting new talent. I don't really think Gutierrez deserved a promotion on current form but he has shown potential in the past.

I'd rather have Gutierrez/Telmex and a healthy Sauber rather than Hulk/Kobayashi and a team that can't pay the bills.


Last edited by KateLM on Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:33 pm 
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KateLM wrote:
I don't think looking at it as Gutierrez replacing Kobayashi is correct. Gutierrez is replacing Perez in the Telmex seat. It's Hulkenberg who has taken the seat that doesn't need sponsorship (although he does has a bit), and I think that is the entirely correct decision.

Kobayashi's solid, but after 3 years it doesn't look like he's ever going to progress up the field on merit. And Sauber have always been about exciting new talent. I don't really think Gutierrez deserved a promotion on current form but he has shown potential in the past.

I'd rather have Gutierrez/Telmex and a healthy Sauber rather than Hulk/Kobayashi and a team that can't pay the bills.

This.

Personally I'd say Hulkenburg can reach higher high's than Kamui anyway. Where would Kamui go in the future if he had kept his seat anyway? I don't think any top teams were even considering him for 2013 this year. There's nowhere he can really go up from. Rookies need a chance to prove themselves as well and sometimes that means another driver has to leave. It's not like Kobayashi hasn't had an ok run in the sport, he's had three full seasons.

Sauber just want to keep themselves financially secure, I don't think anyone should grudge them that.

As for Daytona81 hoping the new guy crashes every race, disgraceful post. A true racing fan would never wish a driver to crash knowing how dangerous the sport is. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Poor decision. Under Kattleborn's leadership next year I cant see anything near as good as this year. Kobayashi has been in contention for three other podiums this year, One admittedly could have been his fault that he threw away but in Monaco and Spa he was taken out. He is barely behind Perez overall who is acknowleged to have had a good year. In my opinion Kamui has outqualified him and been more consistent. Plus there is the continuity aspect, he has driven with them for three seasons so knows the team and has been an undenyably big part of them getting back near the front. He produced some very good drives and good points in 2010 where De la Rosa and Heidfeld were unspectacular. He also produced good drives last year in the last races which helped Sauber hold off Toro Rosso. The 2013 driver pairing is uninspiring. Hulkenberg was poor in 2010 against Barrichello wheras a year later fellow Rookie Maldonado would have destroyed him if not for Hamilton at Monaco and his pole was hardly in normal conditions. This year he has produced several consistent results but none have been especially spectacular or noteworthy. Gultierez brings lots of money but should have beaten Valsecchi and Razia and has crashed endlessly. I acknowledge Sauber need money but why not have Gultierez and a driver who has actually achieved something in his career in F1 rather than someone who has been uninspiring? :frown:

PS: Armchair Expert? Has Kobayashi slept with your wife or something? :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:53 pm 
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TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Poor decision. Under Kattleborn's leadership next year I cant see anything near as good as this year. Kobayashi has been in contention for three other podiums this year, One admittedly could have been his fault that he threw away but in Monaco and Spa he was taken out. He is barely behind Perez overall who is acknowleged to have had a good year. In my opinion Kamui has outqualified him and been more consistent. Plus there is the continuity aspect, he has driven with them for three seasons so knows the team and has been an undenyably big part of them getting back near the front. He produced some very good drives and good points in 2010 where De la Rosa and Heidfeld were unspectacular. He also produced good drives last year in the last races which helped Sauber hold off Toro Rosso. The 2013 driver pairing is uninspiring. Hulkenberg was poor in 2010 against Barrichello wheras a year later fellow Rookie Maldonado would have destroyed him if not for Hamilton at Monaco and his pole was hardly in normal conditions. This year he has produced several consistent results but none have been especially spectacular or noteworthy. Gultierez brings lots of money but should have beaten Valsecchi and Razia and has crashed endlessly. I acknowledge Sauber need money but why not have Gultierez and a driver who has actually achieved something in his career in F1 rather than someone who has been uninspiring? :frown:

PS: Armchair Expert? Has Kobayashi slept with your wife or something? :lol:


It might in the past, but if you look at last 4 races, he felt behind Perez in quali 4 out of 4 and his race pace is always somewhat behind Perez as well, his overtaking abilities also are not as good as everyone mention, and I can´t recall any decent overtake in a handful of races, so he´s a semi consistent driver but I don´t think he has too much remaining to show. However I like the guy, he looks like a nice person and commited with his team ans it´s a shame for him to leave F1 altough I support the idea that is Hulk who´s replacing Koba and not Gutierrez, that way Sauber gets a good, proven driver, truckload of money and a somewhat promising rookie


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
He is a single 6th place finish behind the man who has just earned a Mclaren drive. This after having potentially his 2 best results of the season at Spain and Spa cruelly taken from him.

Formula 1 never was fair but it will be all the poorer without KK next season.

This definitely.

I've really liked the Perez/Kobayashi pairing at Sauber over the last couple of seasons. The thought that 8 points makes the difference between a McLaren seat and losing a seat in a midfield team amazes me. Though I rate both of them, I'd almost like to see KK overtake Perez in the WDC this Sunday. He could certainly do with staying ahead of the Hulk in the standings this weekend if Force India is going to be a realistic option for him.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:40 pm 
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it's always funny how f1 fans always know who is or who isn't world champion material. Of course, those were the same people that outlooked Mika before 1998, Alonso during the 2001 season, Button before 2009, or even Vettel in 2007.

If you don't have the car for it, you're not WDC material. In these last years it is so hard for a driver to get on the podium, when he's not Macca, Redbull Ferrari or Merc ( this year Lotus ), that it's hard to make such an impression that is very powerfull.

Of course the ArmchairExpert will tell you Perez is already 10times WDC and Kobayashi is no more than toilet paper, but at the end of the day, it's a driver/car/luck/momentum combination that makes a WDC.

From my perspective, constant WATCHING of F1improves your knowledge of the sport, but it will never make you an expert. If we're F1 experts, what is Ron Dennis or Frank Williams?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:27 pm 
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When I saw Gutierrez in Formula BMW 2008 he was a class above everyone else... looked like he could have been one of the next major stars. He's disappointed me a bit in GP2, yes 3rd is a good result but he was against a fairly weak field compared to other years. Razia is not F1 standard and I'm not sure Valsecchi is either, hence why they've been in the series for 4/5 years.

It'll be interesting to see how he gets on...

I feel its a bit hard on Kobayashi, but if he can't secure sponsorship from Japan I think he needs to look at his management team. I don't see him on the grid next year.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:29 pm 
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coulthards chin wrote:
I feel its a bit hard on Kobayashi, but if he can't secure sponsorship from Japan I think he needs to look at his management team. I don't see him on the grid next year.


I think he has struggled to get any sponsorship from Japanese corporations after all they are still rebuilding from the aftermath of the earthquake/tsunami so sport sponsorship will be a all time low. Not too mention how even the massive brand names such as Sony and Panasonic are struggling economically, most cannot be seen paying ludicrous amounts of sponsorship f1 demands. It is unfortunate as I always thought kobayashi had a shot with one of the big teams one day.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:14 am 
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The chance of KK getting a seat next year look rather slim. I just hope toyota hybrid from the WEC series pick him up. He was a toyota driver after all


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:45 am 
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Armchair Expert wrote:
mastergee wrote:
So sad that Sauber is now owned by a drug lord!!


Kobayashi was brought to F1 thanks to Toyota, a company which was delivering trucks to Japanese army, which, as we know, was responsible for many massacres during WW2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Toyota
http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/28857- ... r-2-a.html

Ridiculous argument is ridiculous.


wow.. you people are pathetic


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:07 am 
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Good news. Kobayashi could perform, but he wasn't spectacular enough for Sauber. The team needs a driver that can every now and then bring in a surprise podium - not points. Consistency at their level brings few rewards. Kobayashi started off his career reasonably well - but he hasn't improved. He's stayed the exact same driver he was in 2009/10 and lower midfield teams can't afford that.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:25 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Good news. Kobayashi could perform, but he wasn't spectacular enough for Sauber. The team needs a driver that can every now and then bring in a surprise podium - not points. Consistency at their level brings few rewards. Kobayashi started off his career reasonably well - but he hasn't improved. He's stayed the exact same driver he was in 2009/10 and lower midfield teams can't afford that.


Au contraire, those surprise podiums bring driver notice rather than team notice. Nowadays, money from points are what pay the bills. Sauber are sitting, will be sitting actually quite good next year, because of the points from this year. But, they are smart enough to know that they might be in Toro Rosso's position next year, therefore no money ( or less ) for 2014. In they're case, the sponsorship money from Perez coroborated with the money from the points they earned worked like a charm.

Next year they'll have 2 drivers with money, as from what I know, Hulkenberg also brings in quite a lot, on the Alonso/Sutil model. If to be points, even better for them.

Regarding Kobayashi backing from Japan, well, he's not the rockstar type of person is he ???


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:27 am 
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Banana Man wrote:
Your last sentence abotu being dominated and fanboys is just sad. Grow up.


This.

Mr. Expert saying Perez has dominated Koba is extreme hyperbole.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:22 am 
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paul_gmb wrote:
it's always funny how f1 fans always know who is or who isn't world champion material. Of course, those were the same people that outlooked Mika before 1998, Alonso during the 2001 season, Button before 2009, or even Vettel in 2007.

If you don't have the car for it, you're not WDC material. In these last years it is so hard for a driver to get on the podium, when he's not Macca, Redbull Ferrari or Merc ( this year Lotus ), that it's hard to make such an impression that is very powerfull.

Of course the ArmchairExpert will tell you Perez is already 10times WDC and Kobayashi is no more than toilet paper, but at the end of the day, it's a driver/car/luck/momentum combination that makes a WDC.

From my perspective, constant WATCHING of F1improves your knowledge of the sport, but it will never make you an expert. If we're F1 experts, what is Ron Dennis or Frank Williams?


All the drivers you mentioned apart from Button were considered Championship material at those times, well maybe 2001 was a little early for Alonso. I am not being aragant when I say that Frank Williams or Ron Dennis probably have no better judgement than a dedicated fan. Just look at the history of driver moves. Most work out some don't. I see no reason why I could not achieve the same success rate if I am honest.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:10 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
it's always funny how f1 fans always know who is or who isn't world champion material. Of course, those were the same people that outlooked Mika before 1998, Alonso during the 2001 season, Button before 2009, or even Vettel in 2007.

If you don't have the car for it, you're not WDC material. In these last years it is so hard for a driver to get on the podium, when he's not Macca, Redbull Ferrari or Merc ( this year Lotus ), that it's hard to make such an impression that is very powerfull.

Of course the ArmchairExpert will tell you Perez is already 10times WDC and Kobayashi is no more than toilet paper, but at the end of the day, it's a driver/car/luck/momentum combination that makes a WDC.

From my perspective, constant WATCHING of F1improves your knowledge of the sport, but it will never make you an expert. If we're F1 experts, what is Ron Dennis or Frank Williams?


All the drivers you mentioned apart from Button were considered Championship material at those times, well maybe 2001 was a little early for Alonso. I am not being aragant when I say that Frank Williams or Ron Dennis probably have no better judgement than a dedicated fan. Just look at the history of driver moves. Most work out some don't. I see no reason why I could not achieve the same success rate if I am honest.


I can certainly understand what you are writing there paul. The genius of Williams, Dennis and I would say for the future, Christian Horner, is being able to stitch together all the threads that are required to run the team. They get the calls on drivers right most of the time, but then they usually have the drivers knocking on the door for a drive. Williams in the early 90s were phenomenal for this, they had the choice of Prost, Mansell and Senna and could have had 2 of the 3 if they would have been happy working together.

This is Kaltenborn's first big test as a team principal. It boils down to this. She is gambling that Slim's sponsorship money, and the extra funding for developing a better car, will help Hulkenberg achieve a better constructors finish on his own, than would Hulkenberg and Kobayashi working together with a worse car.

I write this because I believe Guitterez will be fighting to keep his head above the waterline for at least the first few races.

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The underlying thing about all this,no matter how bright you are,no matter how logical one is or how much money one has,you have to be a completely stupid optimist...I believe there are about 3 million competition licences worldwide. -Perry McCarthy


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