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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:21 am 
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Those of you saying people should donate to charity instead - do you think Red Bull, Santander, Infiniti, Rovio, Unilever, etc should all donate to charity instead of investing in F1? Its no different. Those companies invest in the sport because it gets them something they want. Why can't fans invest in a driver they want to see?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:40 am 
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Kobayashi has been getting paid a decent salary, he can pay himself for next season.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:27 am 
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therdungeon wrote:
Museli wrote:
Why would anyone want to donate to this? Do something useful with your money instead of funding someone's dream job.

Message for Kamui; get in the real world.


Totally agree, I'm a big fan of him but won't be giving him a cent. There's way more deserving charities than some guy driving an F1 car round

yep, I'm a KK fan but that money could save a lot of lives

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:08 am 
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The following is the bank account information of his funds. The unit amount of donation is 10,000 yen (76 pounds).
Probably you need some remittance fees. The original website is http://kamui-support.com/
After the remittance, you should email your information of the name, address, amount of remittance to "partner@kamui-kobayashi.com". You could get a special wrist band KAUI SUPPORT per unit amount. But I don't know whether it would be applied for you as Japanese.

NAME OF BANK:SUMITOMO MITSUI BANKING CORPORATION
SWIFT CORD:SMBC JP JT
BRNACH:AMAGASAKI BRANCH
ADDRESS: 3-91 SHOWADORI AMAGASAKI-SHI HYOGO JAPAN 660-0881

NAME OF ACCOUNT:DREAM WIN Co., Ltd.
ACCOUNT NO. :419-5176050
ADDRESS: 3-91 SHOWADORI AMAGASAKI-SHI HYOGO JAPAN 660-0881
TELEPHONE:+81 (0)6 6411 1381

Japanese 3 and 5 years old fans also donated their savings in a feeding bottle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DInyk34f ... r_embedded
They called "We will give you all our savings! Kamui, Go for it (ganbare)!!".

Kamui watched this and almost cried.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:52 am 
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Frankly this is one of the most despicable things I've ever seen in F1... x(

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:59 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
therdungeon wrote:
Museli wrote:
Why would anyone want to donate to this? Do something useful with your money instead of funding someone's dream job.

Message for Kamui; get in the real world.


Totally agree, I'm a big fan of him but won't be giving him a cent. There's way more deserving charities than some guy driving an F1 car round

yep, I'm a KK fan but that money could save a lot of lives


Adaemus wrote:
Frankly this is one of the most despicable things I've ever seen in F1... x(



So all of you will be giving money to charity next year instead of Sky F1 subscriptions, TV licenses, going to a race or buying merchandise?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:35 pm 
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I give money anyway thanks, and it's a bit different paying for goods and services and getting something in return, rather than giving to some rich guy who's begging for money to fund his hobby.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Kobayashi isn't asking for money to pay for a his yacht, a villa in the Maldives and a couple of page 3 girls. He needs it just to get a seat on the grid. I doubt he will raise anywhere near enough but good luck to him for trying.

He isn't lying to anyone, everyone who has donated knows what they're paying for. They want to see their favourite driver in F1 and they're willing to pay to get him there. Fair play to them and to Kamui for being that popular and exciting.

What's to say the people who donated don't give to charity also? How is it your business how people chose to spend their money?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:06 pm 
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I think its a sad state of affairs when it comes to a driver having to do that to gain a spot, but at the same time he has known that this is the business for years and maybe his management should have worked harder more professionally, sooner to gain sponsorship and improve his corporate image sooner, i mean his official web site looked like a 12 year old designed it last time i checked. Same with HK and Rubens unless your at a top 4 team you cant take your seat for granted without some backing, its the state of the worlds finances and the cost of being in f1, teams have to generate cash. People who claim its not fair i say well if the paid drivers had better management teams who actually made their clients marketable the best could stay in F1


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Inappropriate post removed


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:42 pm 
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maninblack wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
Frankly this is one of the most despicable things I've ever seen in F1... x(


Ah yes. The same Kamui Kobayashi who was raising money for earthquake relief this year, is now being called by you as a despicable moo-pickle.

You're such a lovely chap, Adaemus. Stay classy.



you're the one who added the nasty word to his post....


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:54 pm 
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Hakkattack wrote:
maninblack wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
Frankly this is one of the most despicable things I've ever seen in F1... x(


Ah yes. The same Kamui Kobayashi who was raising money for earthquake relief this year, is now being called by you as a despicable moo-pickle.

You're such a lovely chap, Adaemus. Stay classy.



you're the one who added the nasty word to his post....


If Adaemus thinks Kobayashi's fundraising is despicable, I don't think it's too much of a stretch that he would consider the man himself to be despicable.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:20 pm 
Please do not put words in each others mouths. Aside from it being impolite, it will inevitably lead to arguments that we will have to clear up.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Not even remotely. Don't twist my words to suit whatever agenda it is that you have.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:27 pm 
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I doubt most foreigners will go as far as making bank transfers. If they set up some sort of PayPal account I'm sure it would make things a lot easier. Or maybe there are some legal issues that's holding them back.

By the way, I translated the Kamui support page if anybody is interested (and we all know Google Translate doesn't always do the best job).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Adaemus wrote:
Not even remotely. Don't twist my words to suit whatever agenda it is that you have.


So how is this fundraiser one of the most despicable acts you've witnessed? As far as I know he's not putting a gun to anyone's head demanding money.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Begging his fans for money for the privilege of watching him race, just because he isn't good enough to get corporate sponsors to back him? It's desperate, and verges on taking advantage of his fans' good nature. All I'll say is I hope the money is refunded if he doesn't get a drive.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Adaemus wrote:
Begging his fans for money for the privilege of watching him race, just because he isn't good enough to get corporate sponsors to back him? It's desperate, and verges on taking advantage of his fans' good nature. All I'll say is I hope the money is refunded if he doesn't get a drive.


I think that's a tad harsh. The Japanese are very staunch believers when it comes to their own personal beliefs, and based on what I can infer from his support page, he held on to his own beliefs for as long as he could before resorting to asking fans for money, and only after much prodding by the fans themselves.

The page explains that all moneys received will go toward securing his 2013 drive and that it's no guarantee, so they ask you to keep that in mind before you donate.

The fact that he's amassed a tremendous amount of money even after the above disclaimers show how badly the Japanese public want to keep a Japanese driver on the grid, and that's not a bad thing. I don't think any Japanese donors expect any money back from this.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:06 pm 
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I wouldn't go as far as calling it despicable, but I also don't really see the appeal of this scheme. I thought Justin Wilson PLC was a great idea because it was an investment rather than a donation - and one which paid off for those that took the gamble. For a guy who, whilst not rich, isn't destitute either that seems like the much more appropriate method than what Kobayashi has gone for.

You sometimes see drivers in the junior ranks doing similar things and every time I think the same thing - "if you're having to resort to this now, how are you ever realistically going to progress in the future?". Same applies here I think.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Long time lurker, first time posting. As a huge Kobayashi (and Kubica) fan, I just had to make an input in this thread.

If Adameus thinks that Kamui's donation drive is inappropriate then he must not care for buying team merchandise, attending GPs, or subscribing to F1 coverage because those are all financial transactions that directly support Formula One and its drivers. If you buy tickets to a race, the thing you "get in return" is the entertainment from watching your favourite drivers battling it out on the track. Funding Kamui's F1 career is no different because you are trying to secure his participation in those racetrack battles.

Billions of dollars are funneled into Formula One each year, and for what purpose? Entertainment. Getting sponsors to financially support drivers is not much different from getting thousands of fans to do the same.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:13 pm 
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NSX-R wrote:
Long time lurker, first time posting. As a huge Kobayashi (and Kubica) fan, I just had to make an input in this thread.

If Adameus thinks that Kamui's donation drive is inappropriate then he must not care for buying team merchandise, attending GPs, or subscribing to F1 coverage because those are all financial transactions that directly support Formula One and its drivers. If you buy tickets to a race, the thing you "get in return" is the entertainment from watching your favourite drivers battling it out on the track. Funding Kamui's F1 career is no different because you are trying to secure his participation in those racetrack battles.

Billions of dollars are funneled into Formula One each year, and for what purpose? Entertainment. Getting sponsors to financially support drivers is not much different from getting thousands of fans to do the same.

except he will have to resort to it each year its a short term fix unless he can get proper backers that will sponsor him on multi year deals


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:17 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
NSX-R wrote:
Long time lurker, first time posting. As a huge Kobayashi (and Kubica) fan, I just had to make an input in this thread.

If Adameus thinks that Kamui's donation drive is inappropriate then he must not care for buying team merchandise, attending GPs, or subscribing to F1 coverage because those are all financial transactions that directly support Formula One and its drivers. If you buy tickets to a race, the thing you "get in return" is the entertainment from watching your favourite drivers battling it out on the track. Funding Kamui's F1 career is no different because you are trying to secure his participation in those racetrack battles.

Billions of dollars are funneled into Formula One each year, and for what purpose? Entertainment. Getting sponsors to financially support drivers is not much different from getting thousands of fans to do the same.

except he will have to resort to it each year its a short term fix unless he can get proper backers that will sponsor him on multi year deals


You don't know that, for all we know he can have a great year in 2013 then next thing we know Lotus is paying him to race for them.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:28 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
NSX-R wrote:
Long time lurker, first time posting. As a huge Kobayashi (and Kubica) fan, I just had to make an input in this thread.

If Adameus thinks that Kamui's donation drive is inappropriate then he must not care for buying team merchandise, attending GPs, or subscribing to F1 coverage because those are all financial transactions that directly support Formula One and its drivers. If you buy tickets to a race, the thing you "get in return" is the entertainment from watching your favourite drivers battling it out on the track. Funding Kamui's F1 career is no different because you are trying to secure his participation in those racetrack battles.

Billions of dollars are funneled into Formula One each year, and for what purpose? Entertainment. Getting sponsors to financially support drivers is not much different from getting thousands of fans to do the same.

except he will have to resort to it each year its a short term fix unless he can get proper backers that will sponsor him on multi year deals


Assuming Kamui actually drives for Lotus next year and stays close in points to Kimi by season's end, KK will have little problems finding institutional support to guarantee the second and third seasons that Lotus will likely hire him for. Or so I hope.

This 'little' donation run of his is only necessary because Sauber was strapped for cash. That's the funny thing. People are hating on Kamui because they think his departure from Sauber was initiated from his lack of talent, when it was really due to lack of sponsorship. Kamui would still be with Sauber if he had brought in luggage full of corporate cash from Sony, Sharp, NEC, etc.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:31 pm 
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MikeV1987 wrote:
potter84 wrote:
NSX-R wrote:
Long time lurker, first time posting. As a huge Kobayashi (and Kubica) fan, I just had to make an input in this thread.

If Adameus thinks that Kamui's donation drive is inappropriate then he must not care for buying team merchandise, attending GPs, or subscribing to F1 coverage because those are all financial transactions that directly support Formula One and its drivers. If you buy tickets to a race, the thing you "get in return" is the entertainment from watching your favourite drivers battling it out on the track. Funding Kamui's F1 career is no different because you are trying to secure his participation in those racetrack battles.

Billions of dollars are funneled into Formula One each year, and for what purpose? Entertainment. Getting sponsors to financially support drivers is not much different from getting thousands of fans to do the same.

except he will have to resort to it each year its a short term fix unless he can get proper backers that will sponsor him on multi year deals


You don't know that, for all we know he can have a great year in 2013 then next thing we know Lotus is paying him to race for them.

except that lotus operates as most teams fo one pay and one paid driver so unless kimi clears off wont happen. They are ran by an investment group after all, if he has an amazing season it would take one of the big four to take him on to be assured a drive.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Lotus is on the verge of getting sponsors, if KK does well for them they will most likely get even more sponsorship, especially out of Japan.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Grosjean's muckups costed Lotus something like $10 million in championship standings, in addition to millions more from spare parts. Replacing him with Kobayashi could be worth millions to Lotus by the end of the season even if Kobayashi brought in little initial sponsorship.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Kobayashi isn't asking for money to pay for a his yacht, a villa in the Maldives and a couple of page 3 girls. He needs it just to get a seat on the grid.

While I think Kamui deserves a seat in F1, I just have to ask, why is it any different to raise money for yachting than to raise money for driving?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:09 pm 
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froze wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Kobayashi isn't asking for money to pay for a his yacht, a villa in the Maldives and a couple of page 3 girls. He needs it just to get a seat on the grid.

While I think Kamui deserves a seat in F1, I just have to ask, why is it any different to raise money for yachting than to raise money for driving?


Raising money to buy Kamui his own personal yacht yields nothing in return for the donor (assuming it's not for yacht racing). Raising money to keep Kamui in F1 keeps the donor entertained for another season (assuming they are fans of KK).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:13 pm 
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NSX-R wrote:
froze wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Kobayashi isn't asking for money to pay for a his yacht, a villa in the Maldives and a couple of page 3 girls. He needs it just to get a seat on the grid.

While I think Kamui deserves a seat in F1, I just have to ask, why is it any different to raise money for yachting than to raise money for driving?


Raising money to buy Kamui his own personal yacht yields nothing in return for the donor (assuming it's not for yacht racing). Raising money to keep Kamui in F1 keeps the donor entertained for another season (assuming they are fans of KK).

One cannot be entertained by yachting?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:18 pm 
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froze wrote:
NSX-R wrote:
froze wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Kobayashi isn't asking for money to pay for a his yacht, a villa in the Maldives and a couple of page 3 girls. He needs it just to get a seat on the grid.

While I think Kamui deserves a seat in F1, I just have to ask, why is it any different to raise money for yachting than to raise money for driving?


Raising money to buy Kamui his own personal yacht yields nothing in return for the donor (assuming it's not for yacht racing). Raising money to keep Kamui in F1 keeps the donor entertained for another season (assuming they are fans of KK).

One cannot be entertained by yachting?


Either you're not quite getting this or you're trying to wind me up.

People will willingly pay to see KK race next year. However they wont pay to fund a lavish luxury lifestyle they will never see.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
froze wrote:
NSX-R wrote:
froze wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Kobayashi isn't asking for money to pay for a his yacht, a villa in the Maldives and a couple of page 3 girls. He needs it just to get a seat on the grid.

While I think Kamui deserves a seat in F1, I just have to ask, why is it any different to raise money for yachting than to raise money for driving?


Raising money to buy Kamui his own personal yacht yields nothing in return for the donor (assuming it's not for yacht racing). Raising money to keep Kamui in F1 keeps the donor entertained for another season (assuming they are fans of KK).

One cannot be entertained by yachting?


Either you're not quite getting this or you're trying to wind me up.

People will willingly pay to see KK race next year. However they wont pay to fund a lavish luxury lifestyle they will never see.

I'd kindly help donate for a yacht if he took me aboard some time. Even if I had to bring my own booze. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:51 am 
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I don't see what the big problem is about Kobayashi appealing for money from his fans. Nobody is forcing the fans to give him the money, it's their free choice. Yes, there are better causes in this world, in which case those who say that will be giving up anything in their life that is not essential, or there just for pleasure, if they want to trot out that line.

The notion that he is not talented enough to get a drive because he can't get sponsorship is short sighted to say the least. If HRT had not gone bankrupt Karthikeyan would probably be on the grid next season. Don't even try to tell me that he is better than Kobayashi because he managed to get sponsorship this year.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:12 am 
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um...... What will K.K do with the money if he doesnt get a drive?


Wait...... how do we even know if that site is legit?!

Doesn't look like a proper site to me. Too basic of a site, like the one I made in freshman year of high school. One would think someone experienced would make the site for K.K

Site looks fishy.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:44 am 
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metamorphomisk wrote:
um...... What will K.K do with the money if he doesnt get a drive?


Wait...... how do we even know if that site is legit?!

Doesn't look like a proper site to me. Too basic of a site, like the one I made in freshman year of high school. One would think someone experienced would make the site for K.K

Site looks fishy.


Reports from various motorsport websites plus updates from KK's official Twitter should suffice in confirming its legitimacy.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:23 am 
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I have no problem with Kobayashi going down this path because people can spend their money however they wish. Indeed, if a multi-millionaire set up a website asking for people to help them make money to buy a yacht then as far as I'm concerned if people donate that's their choice.

However I do have reservations about it. Because I can't read Japanese and the translations aren't really very clear, I don't know if these issues are covered on the site.

As far as I can see this website is a cry for help, but IMO it has to be a genuine cry for help. Going back to the multi-millionaire example, I'd have no problem with it so long as that individual stated they were a multi-millionaire, but if they put up the pretence that they were too poor to buy the yacht then that would be wrong. People have the right to know that they're donating on genuine grounds and even charities get bad publicity when they're not using the money as people were led to believe. So is Kobayashi going to put in his own money and, if so, how much? I would want to be very sure that he was selling everything he owned, taking out loans and pushing himself to the brink of bankruptcy for the drive.

I don't agree with the acceptance of donations from children by any appeal without parental consent.

If this appeal is being made on the premise of Kobayashi needing to pay for his drive and this money being necessary then should he get a paid drive or this money become unnecessary by virtue of a sponsor then IMO the money needs to be returned. Will it be, and are there provisions in place for that to be the case?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:32 am 
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Kamui explained about these issues in his twitter and FAQ in the website in Japanese.
This company is managed by himself, his elder brother and only one staff.
He admitted himself it would be suspicious because of amateur management, and also he does not expect money from overseas.

Basically the ideas of this foundation started from the fact that many Japanese fan frequently ask his hometown Amagasaki city to raise this kind of foundation for Kamui.

Mayor of Amagasaki (and also mayor of Suzuka) is big a fan of Kamui.http://suzuka21.com/report/1070.html
Amasaki city itself supports Kamui. http://www.city.amagasaki.hyogo.jp/kanko/068kamui.html

I guess she (mayor of Amagasaki) suggested building this foundation for him.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:59 am 
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If Kamui fails to land a seat next year he will return the money to the donors, correct? Should Lotus or FI extend an olive branch to KK by providing a one-year contract, they will certainly ask for the money he raised. No F1 team will hire Kamui if they discover that he's misusing the donation money; that would just attract horrific publicity.

As for the children giving up their savings to Kamui (LOL), I'm sure their parents complied. Who else would have given permission to film their kids like that?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:40 am 
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FAQ in the web said, if Kamui fails to land a seat next year, the money will not be returned to the donors and be used for the activities for acquiring 2014 seats. And the web front page said, all proceeds of "Kamui Support" will be used towards Kamui Kobayashi's efforts in securing a seat.

I understand the situation of child protection in your country. At least in Japan this would not be big problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:53 am 
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Kazuo wrote:
FAQ in the web said, if Kamui fails to land a seat next year, the money will not be returned to the donors and be used for the activities for acquiring 2014 seats. And the web front page said, all proceeds of "Kamui Support" will be used towards Kamui Kobayashi's efforts in securing a seat.

I understand the situation of child protection in your country. At least in Japan this would not be big problem.


I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at with child protection.

Children are children everywhere and they are not capable of making informed choices and decisions in the same way that adults are. Science shows this with regards to development of the brain. To suggest that in Japan there is no such thing as a parent who wouldn't know what their child is doing is laughable - there are irresponsible, naive parents everywhere in the world and children act on their own frolics everywhere in the world. So those measures are necessary regardless of what might be thought of the culture. If what you were saying was true, Japan would have no laws or regulations regarding issues of child consent, and they do.

With regards to what NSX-R said about who filmed the children in the first place, that's fine in that situation, but it doesn't indicate anything with regards to the appeal's policies on accepting donations from children generally.

From a general perspective, I am apprehensive about that appeal because I am not confident that it has in place all the relevant protections for people donating their money. There seems to be a large reliance on Kobayashi being a 'nice, trustworthy, genuine' guy. Where on the site are the legalities discussed or where is there information about where this can be obtained? Such as: under what legal authority it has been set up; how the money is held and who controls that money; the specifics of its utilisation ("efforts to land a seat" is vague). If it doesn't have those things in place then it is a. not legitimate even if it's genuine and b. opens the door for people to be taken advantage of under false pretences.

All of these things are very relevant to any sort of appeal for money.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:04 am
Posts: 2
The only thing that's childish and despicable about this is the reaction of some of the people on this message board. Don't you realise that you help pay every driver on the grid by either paying your BBC license fee or subscribing to Sky? Where do you think the teams get the money in the first place? TV rights and sponsorship.

As entertainment value goes, Kamui has certainly showed over the last few years that he's more than capable of delivering. I'd much rather see him racing than some low talent pay driver with deep pockets. If it was a paypal site I'd definitely be contributing. Watching him do his do or die passes is certainly worth more to me than a couple more beers down the pub on Friday night.


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