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Should Lotus retain Grosjean?
Yes 47%  47%  [ 86 ]
No 53%  53%  [ 96 ]
Total votes : 182
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Bring in KK!!!


He's certainly who I would like to see there... I don't see it happening though if rumours about Lotus' finances are true and KK can't secure a major sponsor


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:49 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
Yes, keep Grosjean and sack Kimi.

Yep, thats what I'd prefer to happen, but Kimi's far too good to be sacked, no reason for it. But just shows, personal opinion differs. I see something in Grosjean, I'm bored of Kimi. Maybe the Enstone team see something in both their drivers too, understandably in regards to Kimi's performances through the year. They can see that if it weren't for an alternator failure, Grosjean would have had a win in the first half of the year, that 50% of his accidents were racing incidents or someone else's fault, that he brings exposure to the team, sponsorship, and a damn good attitude too. Keep him I say, hopefully he can still learn from Kimi... if he's still crashing next year, replace him half way through the season. A year and a half continuous development is more than adequate.

Perez was just as accident prone in the latter half of the season, far more aggressive. Grosjean has shown his ability, he's just a 'rough diamond' as they say, I don't see the need for the witch hunt.


grasping at straws are we...

You are talking about less than a handful of races where Grojean did well/ok.

This is not justification for the repair bill for the other 3 quarters of the year.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:50 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
dukieboy wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Yes, keep Grosjean and sack Kimi.

Yep, thats what I'd prefer to happen, but Kimi's far too good to be sacked, no reason for it. But just shows, personal opinion differs. I see something in Grosjean, I'm bored of Kimi. Maybe the Enstone team see something in both their drivers too, understandably in regards to Kimi's performances through the year. They can see that if it weren't for an alternator failure, Grosjean would have had a win in the first half of the year, that 50% of his accidents were racing incidents or someone else's fault, that he brings exposure to the team, sponsorship, and a damn good attitude too. Keep him I say, hopefully he can still learn from Kimi... if he's still crashing next year, replace him half way through the season. A year and a half continuous development is more than adequate.

Perez was just as accident prone in the latter half of the season, far more aggressive. Grosjean has shown his ability, he's just a 'rough diamond' as they say, I don't see the need for the witch hunt.



if it werent for "Renaults alternator failure" in Valencia, Vettel should have won by a mile. so your point is mute.

Also most of Grosjean's crashes, which was his own doing, really hampered Lotus financially, and they could have spend this for development but unfortunately just cost them a lot.


So Grosjean would have been second then, so it's still a good finish and the point still stands. 3 podiums in a year, 4 if it wasn't for a failure, and a number of crashes. That could be Grosjean or Perez we're talking about... but one's the next big thing, the other should be kicked out of F1?

I honestly think a lot of the Grosjean hate is because he took out someone's fave driver or threatened to do better than Kimi at parts of the season (not overall ofcourse).


nope, romain will be 3rd as Alonso overtook him on the restart thanks to the slow tyre heating traits of Lotus


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Santuri9 wrote:
Image

Edit: Didn't find this myself, found it on another forum but thought it would be relevant in this thread :)



This is just beyond classic.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:05 pm 
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I'll get lambasted for this, but as a Belgian I'd like to see my fellow countryman JDA in that Lotus.

He didn't do that bad in Monza, having never driven that car in the dry before. Especially considering his KERS failure, his pace wasn't that bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:08 pm 
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http://www.netcars.com/_client/images/infographics/Formula1IG-Euro.jpg
Courtesy Nicole..


Everyone can see how expensive Grosjean has been to his team..but , I am pretty sure he will be there next year but the team is probably making some contract clauses to get their way out of the deal if the disaster happens. But he gets the second change.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:32 pm 
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appletree wrote:
http://www.netcars.com/_client/images/infographics/Formula1IG-Euro.jpg
Courtesy Nicole..


Everyone can see how expensive Grosjean has been to his team..but , I am pretty sure he will be there next year but the team is probably making some contract clauses to get their way out of the deal if the disaster happens. But he gets the second change.


Quick maths on a ballpark figure anybody?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:03 am 
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I'll just leave it to Lotus to make the decision now I think, I can't be arsed arguing. Grosjean isn't likely to thank me for it haha.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:39 am 
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He's almost confirmed there I'm afraid. I don't think he deserves a second chance. THIS was his second chance. IIRC he also crashed few times when they brought him in in 2009

The kid is unbelievable and has no sense whatsoever of his surroundings

I'd love to see another driver having a go in that Lotus, which won't be bad next year. Bring back Kubica? I'm sure driving using one hand he'll score more points than Gros will ever do


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Santuri9 wrote:
appletree wrote:
http://www.netcars.com/_client/images/infographics/Formula1IG-Euro.jpg
Courtesy Nicole..


Everyone can see how expensive Grosjean has been to his team..but , I am pretty sure he will be there next year but the team is probably making some contract clauses to get their way out of the deal if the disaster happens. But he gets the second change.


Quick maths on a ballpark figure anybody?


It is not just the cost replacing broken parts, it is the cost of lost points, and lost airtime.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:17 pm 
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He has the speed but his (almost) complete lack of special awareness is just unforgivable for driving in Formula 1, so I voted no.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:27 pm 
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F1nsider wrote:
He's almost confirmed there I'm afraid. I don't think he deserves a second chance. THIS was his second chance. IIRC he also crashed few times when they brought him in in 2009

The kid is unbelievable and has no sense whatsoever of his surroundings

I'd love to see another driver having a go in that Lotus, which won't be bad next year. Bring back Kubica? I'm sure driving using one hand he'll score more points than Gros will ever do


Kubica obviously is lurking but I don't think he is ready.

Grosjean certainly deserves a second chance. He's fast, and had pretty good pace compared to Kimi pre-Coanda, and seemed to be getting it back in Texas post-Coanda. He was hopeless in the wet races and that counts against him, but perhaps the Lotus was not good.

Grosjean spun off in Malaysia in the wet after hitting Michael on the first lap and then spinning off later on his own. He spun off in Britain qualifying in the wet in Q2, although he had set a time to make Q3. He was nowhere in wet quali in Hockenheim. He spun in wet in Brazil.

Not sure what Kimi's performance was in those conditions. Perhaps the Lotus was really crap in the wet.

Edit: Raikkonen was 5th in Malaysia so it can't have been that bad.


Last edited by Eva09 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Yes.

But! If I'm Lotus, I go out my way to sign one of the better drivers not on the grid in 2013 as the third driver. Be it Senna, Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Alguersuari, Sutil, or whoever is available once seats have been filled. Then I say to Romain that while I won't be reviewing his seat on a race-by-race basis, I will be keeping a very close eye on his driving, and if it doesn't improve, I wouldn't hesitate to parachute in the aforementioned third driver. Actually, if I've signed someone decent, then it's probably something that can be stated without even needing to say it.

As far as I'm concerned, Romain has the pace, but if he can't stay out of trouble after a season and a half in F1, I wouldn't be giving him another full year.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Kova is linked to Grosjean's seat.


Highly unlikely but would be AWESOME if it happens. They really need a consistent driver in the other seat as well. The only thing teams like Lotus/Williams/ Sauber/F-India can rely on is consistency and scoring points every race. Challenging for wins would be exclusive to the big three

If Gros was at one of the big teams, then yes, he can afford to do some mistakes, because he will have a high chance of making up for his mistakes by winning (because he's fast). That's not the case for Lotus


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Yes.

But! If I'm Lotus, I go out my way to sign one of the better drivers not on the grid in 2013 as the third driver. Be it Senna, Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Alguersuari, Sutil, or whoever is available once seats have been filled. Then I say to Romain that while I won't be reviewing his seat on a race-by-race basis, I will be keeping a very close eye on his driving, and if it doesn't improve, I wouldn't hesitate to parachute in the aforementioned third driver. Actually, if I've signed someone decent, then it's probably something that can be stated without even needing to say it.

As far as I'm concerned, Romain has the pace, but if he can't stay out of trouble after a season and a half in F1, I wouldn't be giving him another full year.

That's actually quite a good idea


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:25 pm 
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xECKSx58 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Yes.

But! If I'm Lotus, I go out my way to sign one of the better drivers not on the grid in 2013 as the third driver. Be it Senna, Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Alguersuari, Sutil, or whoever is available once seats have been filled. Then I say to Romain that while I won't be reviewing his seat on a race-by-race basis, I will be keeping a very close eye on his driving, and if it doesn't improve, I wouldn't hesitate to parachute in the aforementioned third driver. Actually, if I've signed someone decent, then it's probably something that can be stated without even needing to say it.

As far as I'm concerned, Romain has the pace, but if he can't stay out of trouble after a season and a half in F1, I wouldn't be giving him another full year.

That's actually quite a good idea


Not very much. If you don't have enough confidence in your driver then you should sack him. The "new potential" could make use of the winter testing and more mileage in the car and can yield better results instead of throwing him in in the middle of the season.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
F1nsider wrote:
He's almost confirmed there I'm afraid. I don't think he deserves a second chance. THIS was his second chance. IIRC he also crashed few times when they brought him in in 2009

The kid is unbelievable and has no sense whatsoever of his surroundings

I'd love to see another driver having a go in that Lotus, which won't be bad next year. Bring back Kubica? I'm sure driving using one hand he'll score more points than Gros will ever do


Kubica obviously is lurking but I don't think he is ready.

Grosjean certainly deserves a second chance. He's fast, and had pretty good pace compared to Kimi pre-Coanda, and seemed to be getting it back in Texas post-Coanda. He was hopeless in the wet races and that counts against him, but perhaps the Lotus was not good.

Grosjean spun off in Malaysia in the wet after hitting Michael on the first lap and then spinning off later on his own. He spun off in Britain qualifying in the wet in Q2, although he had set a time to make Q3. He was nowhere in wet quali in Hockenheim. He spun in wet in Brazil.

Not sure what Kimi's performance was in those conditions. Perhaps the Lotus was really crap in the wet.

Edit: Raikkonen was 5th in Malaysia so it can't have been that bad.

yeah, I think the only reason Kimi didn't do better was that he couldn't see properly, which is a bit of a handicap when driving around a racetrack :]

The car was fine by all accounts


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:31 pm 
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F1nsider wrote:
Kova is linked to Grosjean's seat.


Highly unlikely but would be AWESOME if it happens. They really need a consistent driver in the other seat as well. The only thing teams like Lotus/Williams/ Sauber/F-India can rely on is consistency and scoring points every race. Challenging for wins would be exclusive to the big three

If Gros was at one of the big teams, then yes, he can afford to do some mistakes, because he will have a high chance of making up for his mistakes by winning (because he's fast). That's not the case for Lotus

But tbh Kova didn't exactly set the world on fire the last time he had a competitive car. Not convinced he'd be a trade up


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Okay. I like RoGro I think the guy has so much potential, but give him another year. If he does not learn, then get someone else.

This was the guy first full season as a driver and I've never seen so much heat on a guy with a nice bit of success so far. He needs to clean up his driving no doubt, but among the chaos, I would keep him. I like his personality and I think he has a great future, but he needs to keep it on the track.

I think everyone is being a bit to harsh and give him another year. If not, get someone else. Its simple as that. Teams give second chances, why not to Grojsean?

Senna
Petrov
Massa
Maldonado
...

So many others have been given another shot, but why the dislike for Grojsean?

Some people are really fickle sometimes.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:41 pm 
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OutKast wrote:
Okay. I like RoGro I think the guy has so much potential, but give him another year. If he does not learn, then get someone else.

This was the guy first full season as a driver and I've never seen so much heat on a guy with a nice bit of success so far. He needs to clean up his driving no doubt, but among the chaos, I would keep him. I like his personality and I think he has a great future, but he needs to keep it on the track.

I think everyone is being a bit to harsh and give him another year. If not, get someone else. Its simple as that. Teams give second chances, why not to Grojsean?

Senna
Petrov
Massa
Maldonado
...

So many others have been given another shot, but why the dislike for Grojsean?

Some people are really fickle sometimes.


3 out of the four you listed was their money not their skills that kept them in F1

As for Massa, that's a completely different story, and you can't compare him to a newbie. But I'd rather not start a Massa discussion in a Gros thread :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:46 pm 
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F1nsider wrote:
OutKast wrote:
Okay. I like RoGro I think the guy has so much potential, but give him another year. If he does not learn, then get someone else.

This was the guy first full season as a driver and I've never seen so much heat on a guy with a nice bit of success so far. He needs to clean up his driving no doubt, but among the chaos, I would keep him. I like his personality and I think he has a great future, but he needs to keep it on the track.

I think everyone is being a bit to harsh and give him another year. If not, get someone else. Its simple as that. Teams give second chances, why not to Grojsean?

Senna
Petrov
Massa
Maldonado
...

So many others have been given another shot, but why the dislike for Grojsean?

Some people are really fickle sometimes.


3 out of the four you listed was their money not their skills that kept them in F1

As for Massa, that's a completely different story, and you can't compare him to a newbie. But I'd rather not start a Massa discussion in a Gros thread :)


Well, you understand what I'm saying? Grojsean is there because of money as well. Total is shelling out more money now because of the French representative of Grojsean.

Also, those drivers I listed are all skilled. Anyways, I think we all need to slow down and give the guy another season. Senna was in the same boat as Grojsean finishing a season in a half with two teams and this year really being their first year of full competition.

Yet, many want Senna to comeback and many want Grojsean gone.

I don't want to start comparisons, but like I said a many of times. Give him another crack at a full season and go from there.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:36 pm 
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OutKast wrote:
F1nsider wrote:
OutKast wrote:
Okay. I like RoGro I think the guy has so much potential, but give him another year. If he does not learn, then get someone else.

This was the guy first full season as a driver and I've never seen so much heat on a guy with a nice bit of success so far. He needs to clean up his driving no doubt, but among the chaos, I would keep him. I like his personality and I think he has a great future, but he needs to keep it on the track.

I think everyone is being a bit to harsh and give him another year. If not, get someone else. Its simple as that. Teams give second chances, why not to Grojsean?

Senna
Petrov
Massa
Maldonado
...

So many others have been given another shot, but why the dislike for Grojsean?

Some people are really fickle sometimes.


3 out of the four you listed was their money not their skills that kept them in F1

As for Massa, that's a completely different story, and you can't compare him to a newbie. But I'd rather not start a Massa discussion in a Gros thread :)


Well, you understand what I'm saying? Grojsean is there because of money as well. Total is shelling out more money now because of the French representative of Grojsean.

Also, those drivers I listed are all skilled. Anyways, I think we all need to slow down and give the guy another season. Senna was in the same boat as Grojsean finishing a season in a half with two teams and this year really being their first year of full competition.

Yet, many want Senna to comeback and many want Grojsean gone.

I don't want to start comparisons, but like I said a many of times. Give him another crack at a full season and go from there.


Not really. Grosjean is being managed by the same company that Boullier heads, so effectively he is his manager. He really wanted to give Romain another chance, whether because both are french and Renault is French played a role in it or not, its not for me to comment on as I have no proof.

Grosjean is not a pay driver, but Senna, Petrov and Maldonado are.

Having said that, I'm 99.9% sure he will be racing that Lotus next year. It's only my personal opinion that he should not be in that Lotus, and he should use Total's money to buy a seat at one of the backmarkers until he gets his fairy cakes together and deserve a better seat


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