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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Tell you what, Sky F1 analysis isnt painting Vettel in a great light here, Kobayashi pitting might just have saved him.


Not sure why that's a defence, though. We've seen many times things like that happen and the offending driver being given a drive-through because he couldn't return the place.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Why werent the lights flashing as they normally do when there is a yellow flag?.....they were constant


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:32 pm 
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leroy wrote:
Why werent the lights flashing as they normally do when there is a yellow flag?.....they were constant


They were flashing O_o


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:32 pm 
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It was yellow, then green then yellow lights ?!

Kinda FIA Fault and then, Kobayashi pitted anyway


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:33 pm 
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Ferrari not gonna protest, OP is just stupid or a troll

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Tell you what, Sky F1 analysis isnt painting Vettel in a great light here, Kobayashi pitting might just have saved him.


Not sure why that's a defence, though. We've seen many times things like that happen and the offending driver being given a drive-through because he couldn't return the place.


It happened with Alonso and Kubica a few years back. Kubica DNF'ed so Alonso couldn't give the place back, so he got a penalty.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
leroy wrote:
Why werent the lights flashing as they normally do when there is a yellow flag?.....they were constant


They were flashing O_o


The first was flashing, but then after the green light the yellows were not flashing.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:37 pm 
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I am neither. I've just wrote.what was heard on the sky coverage.

Sky had Ted over there at the time keeping track of what was going on. If there was a protest to happen.

Why would I troll or.be.stupid if I've just wrote what was reported on sky...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:38 pm 
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The first was flashing along with a red/yellow for that part of the circuit, which the next corner or so had a green light, but the next corner had a yellow light along with 3 more

Vettel clearly overtook under yellows, but KK pitted as soon as the overtake was done, so it is pretty much irrelevant I guess


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:38 pm 
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leroy wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
leroy wrote:
Why werent the lights flashing as they normally do when there is a yellow flag?.....they were constant


They were flashing O_o


The first was flashing, but then after the green light the yellows were not flashing.



IIRC Flashing is the equivalent to waved yellows.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:40 pm 
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beanchimp wrote:
The first was flashing along with a red/yellow for that part of the circuit, which the next corner or so had a green light, but the next corner had a yellow light along with 3 more

Vettel clearly overtook under yellows, but KK pitted as soon as the overtake was done, so it is pretty much irrelevant I guess


I don't see what difference this makes. Overtaking under the yellow is a no-no anyway. So shouldn't it be a blanket penalty no matter what KK did?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:43 pm 
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RunningMan wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
The first was flashing along with a red/yellow for that part of the circuit, which the next corner or so had a green light, but the next corner had a yellow light along with 3 more

Vettel clearly overtook under yellows, but KK pitted as soon as the overtake was done, so it is pretty much irrelevant I guess


I don't see what difference this makes. Overtaking under the yellow is a no-no anyway. So shouldn't it be a blanket penalty no matter what KK did?


+1


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:49 pm 
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Regarding the yellow flag incident, I don't think anything will come of it. It was yellow and red all the way round, which doesn't prevent overtaking. There were yellows also during the middle-last sector...so no overtaking. Then they went green just before the pit straight, so Vettel lined up a pass on Kobayashi and committed to it. Then they went yellow again during the progression of the pass. Plus Kobayashi also pitted, so the place couldn't have been given back, and also Vettel would have gotten the place anyway.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:49 pm 
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Should be but it wont be, its a lot less controversial to have this quietly ignored than to gift Alonso the title with an after race time penalty.

Wrong on principle, but thats the nature of the beast.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:49 pm 
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RunningMan wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
The first was flashing along with a red/yellow for that part of the circuit, which the next corner or so had a green light, but the next corner had a yellow light along with 3 more

Vettel clearly overtook under yellows, but KK pitted as soon as the overtake was done, so it is pretty much irrelevant I guess


I don't see what difference this makes. Overtaking under the yellow is a no-no anyway. So shouldn't it be a blanket penalty no matter what KK did?


Because Vettel could not give the place back as soon as he realised it was yellows again

He gave the place back a few races ago when all 4 wheels were off the track on an overtake, to avoid getting a penalty

Maybe he lifted off as well this time


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:50 pm 
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If he gets a penalty I will poop my pants with joy.

But it will be a shame if he loses the championship in the stewards office, however if it is the case that he did commit the offence they he deserves whatever penalty he gets.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:51 pm 
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On another note

Vettels first lap incident with Senna seems to be Vettels fault, and it went unpunished and even uninvestigated (publicly) as first lap incidents tend to be given a lot more leeway (as seen by Hulk getting a penalty later in the race) why was Grosjean punsihed in Spa ?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:52 pm 
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actually they were yellow flags. But my guess it was just a software glitch or something, because generally yellows flash and this time they were just staying on. From what I've seen at least.

Red and yellow flags is nonsense, they are actual flags only, not digital panels.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:52 pm 
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beanchimp wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
The first was flashing along with a red/yellow for that part of the circuit, which the next corner or so had a green light, but the next corner had a yellow light along with 3 more

Vettel clearly overtook under yellows, but KK pitted as soon as the overtake was done, so it is pretty much irrelevant I guess


I don't see what difference this makes. Overtaking under the yellow is a no-no anyway. So shouldn't it be a blanket penalty no matter what KK did?


Because Vettel could not give the place back as soon as he realised it was yellows again

He gave the place back a few races ago when all 4 wheels were off the track on an overtake, to avoid getting a penalty

Maybe he lifted off as well this time


The precedent was set in Silverstone 2010.

Alonso received a penalty for passing Kubica off the track even though the polish driver had DNF'd by the point the penalty had been handed out.

The precedent was continued in Melbourne 2011 when Button passed Massa off the track but Ferrari then pitted him before the McLaren could return the place.

It is about the offence, not the outcome.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:53 pm 
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beanchimp wrote:
On another note

Vettels first lap incident with Senna seems to be Vettels fault, and it went unpunished and even uninvestigated (publicly) as first lap incidents tend to be given a lot more leeway (as seen by Hulk getting a penalty later in the race) why was Grosjean punsihed in Spa ?


Please! You cannot be serious!

Please, take the loss with some dignity. Ferrari and Alonso seems to have done so, props to them.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:53 pm 
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FormulaFerrari wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
The first was flashing along with a red/yellow for that part of the circuit, which the next corner or so had a green light, but the next corner had a yellow light along with 3 more

Vettel clearly overtook under yellows, but KK pitted as soon as the overtake was done, so it is pretty much irrelevant I guess


I don't see what difference this makes. Overtaking under the yellow is a no-no anyway. So shouldn't it be a blanket penalty no matter what KK did?


+1

Exactly, I was under the impression that overtaking under yellows led to a penalty which can't be avoided by giving the place back.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Pat Fry tells Sky he believes it was a slippery track flag.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:56 pm 
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Sappher wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
On another note

Vettels first lap incident with Senna seems to be Vettels fault, and it went unpunished and even uninvestigated (publicly) as first lap incidents tend to be given a lot more leeway (as seen by Hulk getting a penalty later in the race) why was Grosjean punsihed in Spa ?


Please! You cannot be serious!

Please, take the loss with some dignity. Ferrari and Alonso seems to have done so, props to them.

You must be blind. Vettel gave Senna no room thereby causing the accident. He turned in and cut him off. You cannot get any more clearer then that.

Whatever Red Bull at paying to the FIA in "extra fees" it's paying off.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:58 pm 
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beanchimp wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
The first was flashing along with a red/yellow for that part of the circuit, which the next corner or so had a green light, but the next corner had a yellow light along with 3 more

Vettel clearly overtook under yellows, but KK pitted as soon as the overtake was done, so it is pretty much irrelevant I guess


I don't see what difference this makes. Overtaking under the yellow is a no-no anyway. So shouldn't it be a blanket penalty no matter what KK did?


Because Vettel could not give the place back as soon as he realised it was yellows again

He gave the place back a few races ago when all 4 wheels were off the track on an overtake, to avoid getting a penalty

Maybe he lifted off as well this time

The purpose of flags are too see them before you pass them, they are not delimiting 'overtaking free zones' they are delimiting hazardous zones - it is not like where you make a pass by going off the track and can retroactively put right your transgression. He overtook in an area of the track deemed to be dangerous by race control, thus potentially endangering drivers and marshals.

However, I do not anticipate a penalty, the pass was almost completed prior to the line on the track, they were virtually side by side, and Red Bull will be able to argue Kobayashi was slowing to enter the pits anyway. It would have to be a very, very convincing argument to change the outcome of the World Championship after it has been resolved in such a dramatic manner.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Sappher wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
On another note

Vettels first lap incident with Senna seems to be Vettels fault, and it went unpunished and even uninvestigated (publicly) as first lap incidents tend to be given a lot more leeway (as seen by Hulk getting a penalty later in the race) why was Grosjean punsihed in Spa ?


Please! You cannot be serious!

Please, take the loss with some dignity. Ferrari and Alonso seems to have done so, props to them.



PMSL This is nothing to do with Alonso / Vettel etc

Im just curious, yes I know the Grosjean crash more cars got taken out but it was still a crash

The reason Grosjean was penalised for that was for taking out championship contenders

1st Lap incidents have gone unpunished since Grosjean, so i am wondering why Grosjean and no others at other subsequent races

I am not saying that Vettel should have been penalised as it was a first lap incident


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Nothing will come of this. Quote me.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Ash. wrote:
Nothing will come of this. Quote me.


Definitely not. Has the title ever been decided after the race (via a penalty)?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:03 pm 
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beanchimp wrote:
Sappher wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
On another note

Vettels first lap incident with Senna seems to be Vettels fault, and it went unpunished and even uninvestigated (publicly) as first lap incidents tend to be given a lot more leeway (as seen by Hulk getting a penalty later in the race) why was Grosjean punsihed in Spa ?


Please! You cannot be serious!

Please, take the loss with some dignity. Ferrari and Alonso seems to have done so, props to them.



PMSL This is nothing to do with Alonso / Vettel etc

Im just curious, yes I know the Grosjean crash more cars got taken out but it was still a crash

The reason Grosjean was penalised for that was for taking out championship contenders

1st Lap incidents have gone unpunished since Grosjean, so i am wondering why Grosjean and no others at other subsequent races

I am not saying that Vettel should have been penalised as it was a first lap incident


There have been drivers punished for firstlap incidents.

IIRC Hulk got a penalty for the start in abu.

Edit didn't Koby get one in Korea?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:06 pm 
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FormulaFerrari wrote:
Ash. wrote:
Nothing will come of this. Quote me.


Definitely not. Has the title ever been decided after the race (via a penalty)?


1989 I think, in Prost's favour

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:11 pm 
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H-Holloway wrote:
FormulaFerrari wrote:
Ash. wrote:
Nothing will come of this. Quote me.


Definitely not. Has the title ever been decided after the race (via a penalty)?


1989 I think, in Prost's favour


Ah yes, one of the dirtiest championship wins in any kind of event I have ever seen!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:15 pm 
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MB confirmed on Sky that stewards say that they we're yellow and red flags on display. Even though the yellow and reds don't show on the illuminated boards. I give up.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:19 pm 
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H-Holloway wrote:
FormulaFerrari wrote:
Ash. wrote:
Nothing will come of this. Quote me.


Definitely not. Has the title ever been decided after the race (via a penalty)?


1989 I think, in Prost's favour

It wasn't the last race of the season though, so not really the same situation.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Even IF the stewards should have given a penalty the time for that was during the race. It would be pretty poor form for them to apply a penalty post race for an incident that occurred early on in the piece that they had ample time to address. If that penalty had been given during the race Vettel would still have had the opportunity to make up for it on track and moreover if a time penalty was added in lieu of a drive-through it would be an overly harsh penalty given the Safety Car bunched them up at the end.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:22 pm 
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I really don't get this. Just because Vettel is leading the title he shouldn't be treated differently to anyone else, it was an illegal overtake, there was a flashing yellow light and that means 100% no overtaking. Kobayashi pitting is irrelevant, also got away with the Senna incident when Hulk got a drive through for a similar incident he is one lucky guy.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Tessio wrote:
Sappher wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
On another note

Vettels first lap incident with Senna seems to be Vettels fault, and it went unpunished and even uninvestigated (publicly) as first lap incidents tend to be given a lot more leeway (as seen by Hulk getting a penalty later in the race) why was Grosjean punsihed in Spa ?


Please! You cannot be serious!

Please, take the loss with some dignity. Ferrari and Alonso seems to have done so, props to them.

You must be blind. Vettel gave Senna no room thereby causing the accident. He turned in and cut him off. You cannot get any more clearer then that.

Whatever Red Bull at paying to the FIA in "extra fees" it's paying off.


Comparing what Vettel did, to what Grosjean did in Spa was absurd. That was what I referring to.

beanchimp wrote:
Sappher wrote:
beanchimp wrote:
On another note

Vettels first lap incident with Senna seems to be Vettels fault, and it went unpunished and even uninvestigated (publicly) as first lap incidents tend to be given a lot more leeway (as seen by Hulk getting a penalty later in the race) why was Grosjean punsihed in Spa ?


Please! You cannot be serious!

Please, take the loss with some dignity. Ferrari and Alonso seems to have done so, props to them.



PMSL This is nothing to do with Alonso / Vettel etc

Im just curious, yes I know the Grosjean crash more cars got taken out but it was still a crash

The reason Grosjean was penalised for that was for taking out championship contenders

1st Lap incidents have gone unpunished since Grosjean, so i am wondering why Grosjean and no others at other subsequent races

I am not saying that Vettel should have been penalised as it was a first lap incident



Fair enough.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:32 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:
H-Holloway wrote:
FormulaFerrari wrote:
Ash. wrote:
Nothing will come of this. Quote me.


Definitely not. Has the title ever been decided after the race (via a penalty)?


1989 I think, in Prost's favour

It wasn't the last race of the season though, so not really the same situation.


Didn't it still decide the championship though as with Senna's penalty he was ruled out of contention and Prost was champion by default?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Is there an investigation????

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:37 pm 
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rickyf1 wrote:
Is there an investigation????

Nope..


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:37 pm 
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rickyf1 wrote:
Is there an investigation????


Oh for goodness sake.

NO THERE IS NO INVESTIGATION - NOTHING HAPPENED - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:39 pm 
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RickM wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
Is there an investigation????


Oh for goodness sake.

NO THERE IS NO INVESTIGATION - NOTHING HAPPENED - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.



You're being very vague.


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