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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Crazy_Ivan wrote:
RickM wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
Is there an investigation????


Oh for goodness sake.

NO THERE IS NO INVESTIGATION - NOTHING HAPPENED - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.



You're being very vague.

I'm only asking. Missed everything since end of race!!!

A no would of been fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Senna wasn't along side at turn in. Senna has more fault in this incident. It looked like a dive bomb to me, Vettel was already in traffic, why would Senna attempt this low percentage pass...oh yeah, because he's a third rate driver w/o a seat for 2013 racing for the last time on his home track with a huge surname.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:45 pm 
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metamorphomisk wrote:
Where did you hear that Ferrari is gonna protest? Because unlike you. Ferrari is not stupid. Ferrari knows its not a yellow flag. Its just yellow lights for the race conditions.

hahaha, why did you call him/her stupid? They just put up a post saying Ferrari were submitting a protest. Hair trigger temper maybe?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Consolidated wrote:
Senna wasn't along side at turn in. Senna has more fault in this incident. It looked like a dive bomb to me, Vettel was already in traffic, why would Senna attempt this low percentage pass...oh yeah, because he's a third rate driver w/o a seat for 2013 racing for the last time on his home track with a huge surname.


Nobody could see anybody because there were cars all over the place. First lap incident, it was greasy.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:49 pm 
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don't be silly nobody will dare taking away the title from Vettel now.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:57 pm 
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rickyf1 wrote:
Crazy_Ivan wrote:
RickM wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
Is there an investigation????


Oh for goodness sake.

NO THERE IS NO INVESTIGATION - NOTHING HAPPENED - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.



You're being very vague.

I'm only asking. Missed everything since end of race!!!

A no would of been fine.


You could have read the thread - it's mentioned several times.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:59 pm 
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RickM wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
Crazy_Ivan wrote:
RickM wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
Is there an investigation????


Oh for goodness sake.

NO THERE IS NO INVESTIGATION - NOTHING HAPPENED - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.



You're being very vague.

I'm only asking. Missed everything since end of race!!!

A no would of been fine.


You could have read the thread - it's mentioned several times.


So are they protesting or not

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:01 pm 
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RickM wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
Crazy_Ivan wrote:
RickM wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
Is there an investigation????


Oh for goodness sake.

NO THERE IS NO INVESTIGATION - NOTHING HAPPENED - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.



You're being very vague.

I'm only asking. Missed everything since end of race!!!

A no would of been fine.


You could have read the thread - it's mentioned several times.

Didnt have time. I asked a simple question and wanted a simple answer. That's all

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:01 pm 
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G1n wrote:
don't be silly nobody will dare taking away the title from Vettel now.


Exactly it would kill F1 anyway.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Consolidated wrote:
Senna wasn't along side at turn in. Senna has more fault in this incident. It looked like a dive bomb to me, Vettel was already in traffic, why would Senna attempt this low percentage pass...oh yeah, because he's a third rate driver w/o a seat for 2013 racing for the last time on his home track with a huge surname.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348

Watching that you can see Senna was along side and vettel appears to blame. (1.09)

Vettel clearly did overtake under yellows as well (5.40)

Shame really, and poor stewarding, the fact that the Sauber pitted after is irrelivant to wether the rules were broken or not.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Jon Noble @NobleF1
FIA confirms official classification for Brazilian GP is in. Season is totally over

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:18 pm 
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sgt.hartman wrote:
Jon Noble @NobleF1
FIA confirms official classification for Brazilian GP is in. Season is totally over


Good. I would have preferred Alonso to win in a way, I am gutted for him. But I like Schumi (and hence Vettel). Any drama would devalue F1, unless someone really deserves to be slapped.


Last edited by Eva09 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:18 pm 
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cjf1 wrote:
Consolidated wrote:
Senna wasn't along side at turn in. Senna has more fault in this incident. It looked like a dive bomb to me, Vettel was already in traffic, why would Senna attempt this low percentage pass...oh yeah, because he's a third rate driver w/o a seat for 2013 racing for the last time on his home track with a huge surname.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348

Watching that you can see Senna was along side and vettel appears to blame. (1.09)

Vettel clearly did overtake under yellows as well (5.40)

Shame really, and poor stewarding, the fact that the Sauber pitted after is irrelivant to wether the rules were broken or not.


How many times do people need to say it?

It was a black and red *light*. It was not a yellow. Plus, the final classification has been done - it's over.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Joke, clearly overtook under yellows. Stewards too scared to make any decisions today, pathetic.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:20 pm 
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/thread


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:21 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Joke, clearly overtook under yellows. Stewards too scared to make any decisions today, pathetic.


Stop it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:21 pm 
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sgt.hartman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Joke, clearly overtook under yellows. Stewards too scared to make any decisions today, pathetic.


Stop it.


stop what? They weren't black and yellow or red and yellow or red and black they were yellow, did you even watch the video that was posted?


Last edited by FormulaFun on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:22 pm 
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It was very clearly a pass under yellows (as shown on the Sky analysis), and should have been at least investigated. I wouldn't want the result altered now, but the stewarding, once again, has been questionable and that's bad for the sport.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:22 pm 
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sgt.hartman wrote:
cjf1 wrote:
Consolidated wrote:
Senna wasn't along side at turn in. Senna has more fault in this incident. It looked like a dive bomb to me, Vettel was already in traffic, why would Senna attempt this low percentage pass...oh yeah, because he's a third rate driver w/o a seat for 2013 racing for the last time on his home track with a huge surname.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348

Watching that you can see Senna was along side and vettel appears to blame. (1.09)

Vettel clearly did overtake under yellows as well (5.40)

Shame really, and poor stewarding, the fact that the Sauber pitted after is irrelivant to wether the rules were broken or not.


How many times do people need to say it?

It was a black and red *light*. It was not a yellow. Plus, the final classification has been done - it's over.

Why not actually watch the clip? There was a red and yellow flag along with a yellow flag and a number of yellow lights.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:23 pm 
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RickM wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
Is there an investigation????


Oh for goodness sake.

NO THERE IS NO INVESTIGATION - NOTHING HAPPENED - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.

I'm going out on a limb here, but it seems like you're implying there is possibly NO investigation.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:25 pm 
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cjf1 wrote:
sgt.hartman wrote:
cjf1 wrote:
Consolidated wrote:
Senna wasn't along side at turn in. Senna has more fault in this incident. It looked like a dive bomb to me, Vettel was already in traffic, why would Senna attempt this low percentage pass...oh yeah, because he's a third rate driver w/o a seat for 2013 racing for the last time on his home track with a huge surname.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348

Watching that you can see Senna was along side and vettel appears to blame. (1.09)

Vettel clearly did overtake under yellows as well (5.40)

Shame really, and poor stewarding, the fact that the Sauber pitted after is irrelivant to wether the rules were broken or not.


How many times do people need to say it?

It was a black and red *light*. It was not a yellow. Plus, the final classification has been done - it's over.

Why not actually watch the clip? There was a red and yellow flag along with a yellow flag and a number of yellow lights.


It then goes green and then back to yellows.

plus IIRC along with the red and yellow there is a yellow. Both apply. Red and yellow for the conditions, yellow for the usual.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:26 pm 
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pretty much for the first time ever i can agree with johnston :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:27 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
sgt.hartman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Joke, clearly overtook under yellows. Stewards too scared to make any decisions today, pathetic.


Stop it.


stop what? They weren't black and yellow or red and yellow or red and black they were yellow, did you even watch the video that was posted?
He might not have seen the skypad feature which clearly shows there were yellows, either that or he has his Seb blinkers on as usual.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:27 pm 
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I agree that it's very questionable - but it's a done deal. We can bitch and moan all we like but it wont change the situation.

/thread

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:28 pm 
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What was the 'alleged' yellow flag for in that period?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:29 pm 
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is it actually confirmed that Ferrari have protested? if so when? during race, or after?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:29 pm 
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PacificBeach wrote:
What was the 'alleged' yellow flag for in that period?


Adam Cooper on twitter: "Re the chat on Sky TV and elsewhere about Vettel passing under yellows, what was seen were red and yellow slippery surface boards"


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:29 pm 
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FringeUK wrote:
is it actually confirmed that Ferrari have protested? if so when? during race, or after?


No - they arent protesting - they already said that. It was some idiot trolling making crap up.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
cjf1 wrote:
sgt.hartman wrote:
cjf1 wrote:
Consolidated wrote:
Senna wasn't along side at turn in. Senna has more fault in this incident. It looked like a dive bomb to me, Vettel was already in traffic, why would Senna attempt this low percentage pass...oh yeah, because he's a third rate driver w/o a seat for 2013 racing for the last time on his home track with a huge surname.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348

Watching that you can see Senna was along side and vettel appears to blame. (1.09)

Vettel clearly did overtake under yellows as well (5.40)

Shame really, and poor stewarding, the fact that the Sauber pitted after is irrelivant to wether the rules were broken or not.


How many times do people need to say it?

It was a black and red *light*. It was not a yellow. Plus, the final classification has been done - it's over.

Why not actually watch the clip? There was a red and yellow flag along with a yellow flag and a number of yellow lights.


It then goes green and then back to yellows.

plus IIRC along with the red and yellow there is a yellow. Both apply. Red and yellow for the conditions, yellow for the usual.
Well the pundits with the aid of the skypad showed he overtook through yellows, and yes, they explained about the red and yellow flags but still agreed that he overtook through yellows. it was a let off.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:32 pm 
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H-Holloway wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
H-Holloway wrote:
FormulaFerrari wrote:
Ash. wrote:
Nothing will come of this. Quote me.


Definitely not. Has the title ever been decided after the race (via a penalty)?


1989 I think, in Prost's favour

It wasn't the last race of the season though, so not really the same situation.


Didn't it still decide the championship though as with Senna's penalty he was ruled out of contention and Prost was champion by default?

You couldn't really say Prost won the championship by default as the championship would still have been open for him to win even if there was no penalty.

Anyway:
Quote:
@NobleF1: FIA confirms official classification for Brazilian GP is in. Season is totally over

Phew.

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Last edited by wolfticket on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:33 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
sgt.hartman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Joke, clearly overtook under yellows. Stewards too scared to make any decisions today, pathetic.


Stop it.


stop what? They weren't black and yellow or red and yellow or red and black they were yellow, did you even watch the video that was posted?

How was he supposed to give the place back when Kamui pitted? By stopping on track for over 20 seconds?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:34 pm 
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froze wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
sgt.hartman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Joke, clearly overtook under yellows. Stewards too scared to make any decisions today, pathetic.


Stop it.


stop what? They weren't black and yellow or red and yellow or red and black they were yellow, did you even watch the video that was posted?

How was he supposed to give the place back when Kamui pitted? By stopping on track for over 20 seconds?


Why would him giving the place back avoid him getting a penalty for passing under yellows???


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:35 pm 
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I don't think the FiA would let this go on very far even if Vettel had definitely broken rules (seems the forum is split between yellow and yellow/red). It would make the sport look like a farce.

I didn't want Vettel to win it, but it's his now. Congrats to him, yet another record in his big book of achievements.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Akai wrote:
PacificBeach wrote:
What was the 'alleged' yellow flag for in that period?


Adam Cooper on twitter: "Re the chat on Sky TV and elsewhere about Vettel passing under yellows, what was seen were red and yellow slippery surface boards"

So, the same things are being said, but some people don't get it or don't want to at all.

If there was a yellow flag there should be a reason (race control would have the log too); i.e debris in Turn #n, small collision between cars A and B on previous lap, etc...

All of us watched the race, did SKY analysts mentioned the reason of alleged yellow flag at all?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Azi wrote:
It was very clearly a pass under yellows (as shown on the Sky analysis), and should have been at least investigated. I wouldn't want the result altered now, but the stewarding, once again, has been questionable and that's bad for the sport.
For those of you who say that is a yellow could you provide a reason why there would have been a yellow at that point, generally they don't just show yellow flags for the fun of it.

The stewards have said it was a slippery track flag (red and yellow stripped) which makes sense the track did appear a little slippery at that stage :?

Edited:
Sorry, beaten to the question
PacificBeach wrote:
What was the 'alleged' yellow flag for in that period?

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Last edited by gregwil on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:39 pm 
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froze wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
sgt.hartman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Joke, clearly overtook under yellows. Stewards too scared to make any decisions today, pathetic.


Stop it.


stop what? They weren't black and yellow or red and yellow or red and black they were yellow, did you even watch the video that was posted?

How was he supposed to give the place back when Kamui pitted? By stopping on track for over 20 seconds?


No, by getting a drive-through passed to him by the stweards, which didn't happen, which is where the issue is. Suggesting people stop on the track :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:45 pm 
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You know what guys read this:-

Sebastian Vettel 2012 WDC

Get used to it, it ain't ever gonna change.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Akai wrote:
PacificBeach wrote:
What was the 'alleged' yellow flag for in that period?


Adam Cooper on twitter: "Re the chat on Sky TV and elsewhere about Vettel passing under yellows, what was seen were red and yellow slippery surface boards"

So, the same things are being said, but some people don't get it or don't want to at all.

If there was a yellow flag there should be a reason (race control would have the log too); i.e debris in Turn #n, small collision between cars A and B on previous lap, etc...

All of us watched the race, did SKY analysts mentioned the reason of alleged yellow flag at all?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:07 pm 
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It was a static yellow flag too that was displayed with the yellow and red. This means no overtaking and slow down. If it's a single waved yellow it also means prepare to stop.

I assumed that there was no way of them flashing a yellow and red light, so they went for yellow as red would be too confusing/dangerous (one driver stopping and another not). The only yellow flag I saw in that sequence was the one static with the yellow and red and so it may have been the stewards getting mixed up because of the lights. If there was no overtaking because of the track surface being slippery, in those two laps the red and yellow flag should have been displayed (after two laps drivers now have to assume the slippery surface is the normal track) I'm sure there were other overtakes. We've heard nothing of them though.

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