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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Well ... A few years ago Ferrari replaced Kimi with Alonso and suggested that Alonso has a whole lot more to offer. They said his one day feedback on the car is better than what Kimi did in three years....

Lets see where the championship score stands

Raikkonen/Ferrari - 1
Alonso/ Ferrari - 0

Joke is on you Scuderia Ferrari !!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Aaaaah, gotta love the simple-minded. You're so cute!!!1


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Oh dear.

Has it ever occured to you that

A) Other teams have designed a faster car and there is nothing Alonso could do about it?
B) Kimi has had better machinery in comparison to the competion than Alonso?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:10 pm 
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indianajones wrote:
Well ... A few years ago Ferrari replaced Kimi with Alonso and suggested that Alonso has a whole lot more to offer. They said his one day feedback on the car is better than what Kimi did in three years....

Lets see where the championship score stands

Raikkonen/Ferrari - 1
Alonso/ Ferrari - 0

Joke is on you Scuderia Ferrari !!!!


i think the joke is on mclaren for screwing up in Brazil 2007


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:11 pm 
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I like Kimi and all, but this thread is silly.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Since Domenicalli stepped in, they just kept on going downhill. It's hard to judge whether Raikkonen or Alonso was the better choice for them, but from what it seems, Alonso looks to get better with the team.

However until that clown team leader stays there, nothing good will come any time soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Are you implying Räikkönen and Alonso designed those Ferraris they drove and Kimi designed a more competitive car?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:13 pm 
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ferrar1sta wrote:
Aaaaah, gotta love the simple-minded. 1


and resorting to insults makes U very bright eh ?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Kimi was more successful at Ferrari, simple as that. (So far)

Alonso needs a title next year or next, for it to be called a success.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:17 pm 
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When Kimi was in Ferrari for two years it was a lot better team. Last year in Ferrari Kimi's car was awful.
And now with Alonso (the great and awesome car developer) the car isn't bad in race but bad in Q. And Mclaren and Red Bull have just made a better job as a team. Even with all those problems they got edge over Ferrari.

But only winners are remembered. Alonso isn't winner in Ferrari, kimi was.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Lets ask Massa who he prefered as his teammate to settle this one given hes been with both :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:27 pm 
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Kimi had the fastest car for two years and essentially fluked one WDC.

Alonso hasn't had the fastest car for 3 years and lost out on two WDC's by a whisker.

Fine margins. But I'm pretty sure that inside Ferrari Alonso is thought of very very highly. Alonso himself would admit that if he doesn't win a WDC in the next couple of years he will have failed.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Razoola wrote:
Lets ask Massa who he prefered as his teammate to settle this one given hes been with both :)


Given that Massa signed one more year with Ferrari, he is probably not so annoyed with Alonso, don't you think?

That said, I don't know what makes you think that he would prefer Kimi (any link?) and, even if it was the case, why this would be of any relevance.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:52 pm 
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indianajones wrote:
Well ... A few years ago Ferrari replaced Kimi with Alonso and suggested that Alonso has a whole lot more to offer. They said his one day feedback on the car is better than what Kimi did in three years....

Lets see where the championship score stands

Raikkonen/Ferrari - 1
Alonso/ Ferrari - 0

Joke is on you Scuderia Ferrari !!!!


Following your logics, we could conclude that Pérez and Kobayashi are better than Kimi, because they both managed to get podiums with a Sauber and Kimi didn't.

You simply can't compare different years. Basic motorsport understanding, I'd say.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:55 pm 
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AFCTUJacko wrote:
Kimi had the fastest car for two years and essentially fluked one WDC.

Alonso hasn't had the fastest car for 3 years and lost out on two WDC's by a whisker.

Fine margins. But I'm pretty sure that inside Ferrari Alonso is thought of very very highly. Alonso himself would admit that if he doesn't win a WDC in the next couple of years he will have failed.


Ferrari fluked one WDC, not Kimi. Ferrari did idiotic reason to support more Massa over Kimi. Sadly Massa is dominated by Alonso now and badly.

And Massa loves Ferrari, not Alonso. And Massa didn't have choice, retire or be slave to Alonso for 1 more year. 2014 he might have more options. Now he did have only one team to choose.

Alonso has a good car on his hands. Massa speed now have shown that car isn't that bad.

If i was Massa i would love to drive with Kimi because i can have a change to win and race against him. Now with against the jesus of F1 he just drivers and give position to Alonso. But maybe Massa likes more to be dominated..


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:57 pm 
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indianajones wrote:
Well ... A few years ago Ferrari replaced Kimi with Alonso and suggested that Alonso has a whole lot more to offer. They said his one day feedback on the car is better than what Kimi did in three years....

Lets see where the championship score stands

Raikkonen/Ferrari - 1
Alonso/ Ferrari - 0

Joke is on you Scuderia Ferrari !!!!

HAHAHAHA, gotta say....I was kinda thinking the same earlier lol. But I don't wanna be mean towards Alonso, I like the guy and he is an amazeballs driver...but I am a Kimi fan.
Still, funny thread ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:00 pm 
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I am Kimi fan and have to say - Why do we need to make talks like this? I mean, yes. these are the facts, but to do it 'in your face'? it's like kindergarden level.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:02 pm 
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AFCTUJacko wrote:
Kimi had the fastest car for two years and essentially fluked one WDC.

Alonso hasn't had the fastest car for 3 years and lost out on two WDC's by a whisker.

Fine margins. But I'm pretty sure that inside Ferrari Alonso is thought of very very highly. Alonso himself would admit that if he doesn't win a WDC in the next couple of years he will have failed.

oh dear :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:04 pm 
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XRV750 wrote:
indianajones wrote:
Well ... A few years ago Ferrari replaced Kimi with Alonso and suggested that Alonso has a whole lot more to offer. They said his one day feedback on the car is better than what Kimi did in three years....

Lets see where the championship score
Raikkonen/Ferrari - 1
Alonso/ Ferrari - 0

Joke is on you Scuderia Ferrari !!!!

HAHAHAHA, gotta say....I was kinda thinking the same earlier lol. But I don't wanna be mean towards Alonso, I like the guy and he is an amazeballs driver...but I am a Kimi fan.
Still, funny thread ;)


Yeah, agree. It is still Kimi =1, Alonso = 0
And the fact is a hard fact which cant be turned to something else. They still not made the progress they were about to do. Until now they totally molested their second driver thus forgetting that they are a 2 driver team.

This is funny ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
AFCTUJacko wrote:
Kimi had the fastest car for two years and essentially fluked one WDC.

Alonso hasn't had the fastest car for 3 years and lost out on two WDC's by a whisker.

Fine margins. But I'm pretty sure that inside Ferrari Alonso is thought of very very highly. Alonso himself would admit that if he doesn't win a WDC in the next couple of years he will have failed.

oh dear :uhoh:


Ha ha. I should clarify. I love Kimi and he is absolutely deserving of having a WDC to his name.

But McLaren threw it away in 2007.

As i said, fine margins.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Alonso threw it in 2007 and far mostly McLaren didn't deserve to even compete to titles with spygate. Both driver should have been banned and points taken away that year.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Banco Santander has blew it most :)
No wonder the economy in spain is messed up when you loose money paying drivers not to drive.
LOL this bank has earned it.

Maybe they should have broke Massas gearbox seal???? you know what??? TOO LATE!!!!! :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Shiva wrote:
Banco Santander has blew it most :)
No wonder the economy in spain is messed up when you loose money paying drivers not to drive.
LOL this bank has earned it.

LOL, ouch.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Shiva wrote:
Banco Santander has blew it most :)
No wonder the economy in spain is messed up when you loose money paying drivers not to drive.
LOL this bank has earned it.

Maybe they should have broke Massas gearbox seal???? you know what??? TOO LATE!!!!! :)


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Shiva wrote:
Banco Santander has blew it most :)
No wonder the economy in spain is messed up when you loose money paying drivers not to drive.
LOL this bank has earned it.

Maybe they should have broke Massas gearbox seal???? you know what??? TOO LATE!!!!! :)


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Khazrak134 wrote:
indianajones wrote:
Well ... A few years ago Ferrari replaced Kimi with Alonso and suggested that Alonso has a whole lot more to offer. They said his one day feedback on the car is better than what Kimi did in three years....

Lets see where the championship score stands

Raikkonen/Ferrari - 1
Alonso/ Ferrari - 0

Joke is on you Scuderia Ferrari !!!!


i think the joke is on mclaren for screwing up in Brazil 2007


Ferrari dominated that race as they did 2006, all that went wrong is a mechanical problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:44 pm 
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2007 wasn't easy for kimi at all. Mclaren hold the setup, fuel loads and pit stop strategy details of Kimi's car, thats the reason of his slump on first half of the season.

When they get caught, kimi start flying and win 5 more races and podiums in most races.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Hilarious all the people talking about Massa giving points to Alonso. How many times this season has Massa even been close to Alonso? That would be a valid argument if he'd been in position to affect the title race; indeed, Alonso might have won if Massa had taken points away from his rivals.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:46 pm 
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ferrar1sta wrote:
Hilarious all the people talking about Massa giving points to Alonso. How many times this season has Massa even been close to Alonso? That would be a valid argument if he'd been in position to affect the title race; indeed, Alonso might have won if Massa had taken points away from his rivals.


maybe if they focus more on massa earlier can sort out his issues, he would hv helped fernando more on 1st half of the season??


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:06 pm 
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Denorth wrote:
I am Kimi fan and have to say - Why do we need to make talks like this? I mean, yes. these are the facts, but to do it 'in your face'? it's like kindergarden level.


There's nothing unreasonable about Kimi fans enjoying the schadenfreude for a few hours


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:10 pm 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
ferrar1sta wrote:
Hilarious all the people talking about Massa giving points to Alonso. How many times this season has Massa even been close to Alonso? That would be a valid argument if he'd been in position to affect the title race; indeed, Alonso might have won if Massa had taken points away from his rivals.


maybe if they focus more on massa earlier can sort out his issues, he would hv helped fernando more on 1st half of the season??


Massa was poor when the car was poor. When the car got better in the second half Massa gradually got better.

Contrary to popular belief, Ferrari don't abandon Massa and say "Look here's your car, go do whatever" they actually do take the time to focus on Massa and his problems because, an underperforming driver costs them WCC points and places.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Darkwing wrote:
Since Domenicalli stepped in, they just kept on going downhill. It's hard to judge whether Raikkonen or Alonso was the better choice for them, but from what it seems, Alonso looks to get better with the team.

However until that clown team leader stays there, nothing good will come any time soon.


The OPs argument could be valid for the people who use pure statistics to win arguments. Like Massa > KIMI, Alonso > Massa, means Alonso > Kimi

In the same context. Kimi + Ferrari + 3 years = 1 WDC + 2 WCC, Alonso + Ferrari + 3 years = 0 WDC + 0 WCC

But for any intelligent F1 fan, that is absurd, for both statements

I completely agree with Darkwing, that's what I've been saying forever, that since the joke of a boss Dominicalli stepped in, Ferrari took a nose dive and if he doesn't get fired they won't do any better. He blamed Ferrari's slump on Kimi and said that Ferrari needs a driver like Alonso, well, he bought himself few years and managed to get Alonso, now what? we still didn't see anything delivered. For all I care Alonso and Ferrari contributed in screwing up the 2010 WDC championship, and Ferrari did that themselves in 2012. It's clearly not a driver thing

Kimi would've faired better in the Todt era, but with the current boss with zero leadership skills, Alonso is a better fit, but let's not forget, Alonso is only a driver, and he's young in age, so he can't really run a team, he simply has no skills nor experience of being a boss. Under someone like Flavio he would excel.

Fire Domoinicalli and get Flavio for Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Shiva wrote:
Banco Santander has blew it most :)
No wonder the economy in spain is messed up when you loose money paying drivers not to drive.
LOL this bank has earned it.

Maybe they should have broke Massas gearbox seal???? you know what??? TOO LATE!!!!! :)


:lol: :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:27 pm 
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ferrar1sta wrote:
Hilarious all the people talking about Massa giving points to Alonso. How many times this season has Massa even been close to Alonso?


Austin and Brazil, just to name the last 2. Without team orders, Massa would have finished in front of Alonso, hence Alonso would have gotten less points than he currently has.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Darkwing wrote:
ferrar1sta wrote:
Hilarious all the people talking about Massa giving points to Alonso. How many times this season has Massa even been close to Alonso?


Austin and Brazil, just to name the last 2. Without team orders, Massa would have finished in front of Alonso, hence Alonso would have gotten less points than he currently has.

Well done, we all already knew that. Can you name any instances before the last two races? That doesn't come anywhere close to Massa having basically carried Alonso to within 3 points of the title. How many points did Massa take off Vettel compared to points Webber took off Alonso? :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:41 pm 
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ferrar1sta wrote:
Darkwing wrote:
ferrar1sta wrote:
Hilarious all the people talking about Massa giving points to Alonso. How many times this season has Massa even been close to Alonso?


Austin and Brazil, just to name the last 2. Without team orders, Massa would have finished in front of Alonso, hence Alonso would have gotten less points than he currently has.

Well done, we all already knew that. Can you name any instances before the last two races? That doesn't come anywhere close to Massa having basically carried Alonso to within 3 points of the title. How many points did Massa take off Vettel compared to points Webber took off Alonso? :uhoh:


Pal, you don't have a clue what we are taking about here. Ferrari forgot how to be a team. And you as a Ferrari fan should understand it because you are not Alonso fan are you?

As a team you have 2 drivers to support. The other to win and the other to take points from competition. Ferrari forgot that. That is why we are standing with nothing.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:42 pm 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
ferrar1sta wrote:
Hilarious all the people talking about Massa giving points to Alonso. How many times this season has Massa even been close to Alonso? That would be a valid argument if he'd been in position to affect the title race; indeed, Alonso might have won if Massa had taken points away from his rivals.


maybe if they focus more on massa earlier can sort out his issues, he would hv helped fernando more on 1st half of the season??


And who says they did not focus on Massa ealier on? Can you just not accept that maybe they did what they did (including build a whole new chassis for him) and he was just not up to it? This talk of Ferrari deliberately thwarting Massa is beyond belief...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:43 pm 
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SwSpeed wrote:
ferrar1sta wrote:
Darkwing wrote:
ferrar1sta wrote:
Hilarious all the people talking about Massa giving points to Alonso. How many times this season has Massa even been close to Alonso?


Austin and Brazil, just to name the last 2. Without team orders, Massa would have finished in front of Alonso, hence Alonso would have gotten less points than he currently has.

Well done, we all already knew that. Can you name any instances before the last two races? That doesn't come anywhere close to Massa having basically carried Alonso to within 3 points of the title. How many points did Massa take off Vettel compared to points Webber took off Alonso? :uhoh:


Pal, you don't have a clue what we are taking about here. Ferrari forgot how to be a team. And you as a Ferrari fan should understand it because you are not Alonso fan are you?

As a team you have 2 drivers to support. The other to win and the other to take points from competition. Ferrari forgot that. That is why we are standing with nothing.
Right; Ferrari just completely ignored Felipe for the majority of the season, and then suddenly decided to leap back onto his wagon after he had absolutely no chance of getting into the title race. Or maybe I shouldn't explain assumptions, can you explain your logic here?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Darkwing wrote:
Since Domenicalli stepped in, they just kept on going downhill. It's hard to judge whether Raikkonen or Alonso was the better choice for them, but from what it seems, Alonso looks to get better with the team.



Yup, Hard to say who is the better driver. Kimi's racecraft this year has been exemplary, but Alonso just fits with the team better. Emotionless driver + Ferrari = strange situation.

As for the feedback thing, I think it's bullshit, McLaren and Lotus both said Kimi was very important in working with them to develop the car.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:08 pm 
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What a rubbish thread. Please don't reply, let it go down

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