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Was the penalty deserved?
Yes 39%  39%  [ 67 ]
No 61%  61%  [ 105 ]
Total votes : 172
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Yes or No? What do you think?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Nah, he lost control but i think it was a racing incident. the gap was there and he had the right to go for it, maybe he could have been more sensible and got a tow at the straight afterwards.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:36 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Nah, he lost control but i think it was a racing incident. the gap was there and he had the right to go for it, maybe he could have been more sensible and got a tow at the straight afterwards.


I voted yes but I love Lewis Hamilton (almost as much as I love Michael Schumacher). I understand why what happened happened. Racing incident.

Sure as hell wasn't Lewis's fault. Hell of a race from him and Jenson.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:38 pm 
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No. He made a misjudgement, it wasn't malicious. Perhaps he got too excited.

Sometimes you've just got to let it be.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Nah, he lost control but i think it was a racing incident. the gap was there and he had the right to go for it, maybe he could have been more sensible and got a tow at the straight afterwards.


I voted yes but I love Lewis Hamilton (almost as much as I love Michael Schumacher). I understand why what happened happened. Racing incident.

Sure as hell wasn't Lewis's fault. Hell of a race from him and Jenson.


Yeah i agree. specially on the last bit

Some say Lewis could have left more room which he could but he was in a bad situation having to overlap a Caterham and looking behind at a charging Hulkenberg all while trying to stay on a dry bit i think is too much.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:40 pm 
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No. Racing incident IMO. IT just got a bit too tight and he was caught out by the Caterham. Just unlucky IMO.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:40 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Nah, he lost control but i think it was a racing incident. the gap was there and he had the right to go for it, maybe he could have been more sensible and got a tow at the straight afterwards.


I voted yes but I love Lewis Hamilton (almost as much as I love Michael Schumacher). I understand why what happened happened. Racing incident.

Sure as hell wasn't Lewis's fault. Hell of a race from him and Jenson.


Yeah i agree. specially on the last bit

Some say Lewis could have left more room which he could but he was in a bad situation having to overlap a Caterham and looking behind at a charging Hulkenberg all while trying to stay on a dry bit i think is too much.


Also remember what happened to Villeneuve in 1996? Brazil is very, very slippery when you to the inside of turn 1 (or 3) to pass another driver.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Hamilton wasn't impressed afterwards
It's a shame Hulkenberg hasn't said sorry to Hamilton


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:41 pm 
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I was shouting and swearing at him like nobody's business...but it was a racing incident.

Didn't deserve the penalty.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:42 pm 
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SamH_123 wrote:
Hamilton wasn't impressed afterwards
It's a shame Hulkenberg hasn't said sorry to Hamilton


It is still just 2 hours after the race and both must have a lot to do.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:43 pm 
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the steward who made the call probably was too trigger happy in the excitement of it all.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Nope.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:55 pm 
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yeah, another crash from another one of the new drivers, whom all of which, once again, had a terrible race. They need to learn how to race cleanly and this wont happen without punishing their errors, they can't outbrake everyone all the time, they need to learn their limits because atm they are awful


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Im a big Hamilton fan and even i don't think it was deserved, especially when the Vettel Senna one was overlooked.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Nope, but where was Vettels penalty? that was much worse than Hulks, the FIA were incompetent this weekend, sky analysis also showed that IT WAS yellow flags, once again shocking stewarding.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:56 pm 
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His ambition overtook his talent and he punted out the leader. Of bloody course there should be a penalty...

Shame because he drove a great race up that point.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:58 pm 
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The way I see F1 being run, it is up to each driver to ensure they dont make a mistake. End result is what counts eventually, not whether the move itself was wrong or not. We have seen worse moves go unnoticed and unpunished because they did not result in contact. But when it does, F1 has made itself clear that they will investigate and find out if someone was at fault. Lewis definitely wasnt as he gave more than enough room to the Hulk and even though this wasnt deserved outside F1, in the world of F1 we have seen even milder contacts get penalized, so this was definitely on.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:29 pm 
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GB-fan wrote:
His ambition overtook his talent and he punted out the leader. Of bloody course there should be a penalty...

Shame because he drove a great race up that point.


Agree. He caused the incident and it should have been avoidable. (This said by a man who hasn't ever driven over 100 mph).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:33 pm 
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lunatic wrote:
Nope, but where was Vettels penalty? that was much worse than Hulks, the FIA were incompetent this weekend, sky analysis also showed that IT WAS yellow flags, once again shocking stewarding.

+1

Vettels wasn't even because he lacked grip or locked his wheels and slid in to another car, he turned into another car which was either surprisingly poor judgement or arrogance, it was an accident that didn't need to happen at all.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:35 pm 
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I think the penalty was justified - he was far too ambitious expecting to be able to slow down and make the apex and hence caused an avoidable collision - end of! honestly, it's not like he suddenly came across a wet patch or oil spill! - he overcooked it and took someone else out - I would say the same no matter who he punted off! Penalty is a bit harsh, but needs to be applied to be consistent.
Contrast with the Vettal Senna punt and Vettel got off scot free - and he deffo chopped across Senna IMHO. (yet another 'avoidable collision' - but strangely no penalty!)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:35 pm 
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What was he supposed to do? He was ahead, he lost the rears. I don't think the penalty was deserved because he clearly did everything he could and left enough space for Hamilton, but the way the rear just snapped out on him unexpectedly was beyond control anymore. Then Hamilton says on the BBC interview along the lines of "says a lot of the guy that he hasn't even shown up to apologize". What is there for Hulkenberg to apologize for? That the rear just stepped out on him after he was already made the maneuver and he was unable to catch it?

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Last edited by froze on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:37 pm 
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froze wrote:
What was he supposed to do? He was ahead, he lost the rears. I don't think the penalty was deserved because he clearly did everything he could and left enough space for Hamilton, but the way the rear just snapped out on him unexpectedly was beyond control anymore.


Hmmm. That's a pretty good point. I've replayed it a few times and I think I'm changing my tune. I think the conditions caused it now. (I know flip flop flip flop). You know what they say "that's racing".


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:39 pm 
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Another example of a penalty being handed out based on the consequences rather than the action.

Absolutely didn't deserve it. That aside, though I'm not a fan of Hulkenberg I can't help feeling that he was utterly screwed by the safety car.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Absolutely not. It was a clear racing incident that was caused by conditions.
I even thought it at the time, in spite of it being good for the championship at the time from my pov.
One of the oddest decisions all season imo.

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Last edited by wolfticket on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:40 pm 
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It was particularly unfair in light of the fact that Vettel didn't appear to even merit an investigation by the stewards yet Hulk got adrive through before Lewis even stepped out of the car. Very inconsistent stewarding


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:41 pm 
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How can you penalise someone when there is oh one dry line?!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:41 pm 
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So if you lose control and spin into another car whilst trying to overtake it and thus ending his race you do not deserve a penalty?

Crazy.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:43 pm 
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froze wrote:
What was he supposed to do? He was ahead, he lost the rears. I don't think the penalty was deserved because he clearly did everything he could and left enough space for Hamilton, but the way the rear just snapped out on him unexpectedly was beyond control anymore. Then Hamilton says on the BBC interview along the lines of "says a lot of the guy that he hasn't even shown up to apologize". What is there for Hulkenberg to apologize for? That the rear just stepped out on him after he was already made the maneuver and he was unable to catch it?

And that is what differentiates a top guy from let us just say Hulk in this case. It was Hulk who put himself in the position and he should have known better than to go on the wet line on dry tyres. He did ruin Lewis's race and he should have apologized. He also threw away a shot at 1st place for himself when he made the silly error, but he will grow up. If Maldonado can, so can anyone 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:45 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
How can you penalise someone when there is oh one dry line?!

And you woulda thunk an F1 driver with a few seasons would be smart enough to realize that and stick to the dry line. He was never gonna make it stick on the wet line and he should have backed off, but he will learn just like Maldonado and Grosjean have.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:45 pm 
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lamo wrote:
So if you lose control and spin into another car whilst trying to overtake it and thus ending his race you do not deserve a penalty?

Crazy.

No because the rear stepping out in that situation was unexpected. Is losing the rear driver induced? Maybe while accelerating, but on that point it was totally unexpected.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:47 pm 
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It was a ridiculous penalty. FIA probably trying to help Alonso win. Thank goodness it didn't work!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:48 pm 
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iceman_fan90 wrote:
It was a ridiculous penalty. FIA probably trying to help Alonso win. Thank goodness it didn't work!

oh grow up.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:49 pm 
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It's a drivers responsibility to keep control of his car at all times unless something on the car breaks. The track was slippy is no excuse.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:49 pm 
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iceman_fan90 wrote:
It was a ridiculous penalty. FIA probably trying to help Alonso win. Thank goodness it didn't work!


It's not a conspiracy forum, mate.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:50 pm 
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froze wrote:
lamo wrote:
So if you lose control and spin into another car whilst trying to overtake it and thus ending his race you do not deserve a penalty?

Crazy.

No because the rear stepping out in that situation was unexpected. Is losing the rear driver induced? Maybe while accelerating, but on that point it was totally unexpected.


Unexpected or not, penalties are given for the outcome of the action. The outcome was a driver error causing another driver to retire.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:53 pm 
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That was a driving and racing incident. Hulk had no idea his car would step out like that and he had a huge run on Hamilton on the straight. The past two laps it was the same way. He could of waited a lap but anything can happen through a lap and he could of lost contact with Hamilton. In any racing series you do not wait if you have an opportunity to make a pass especially in a race like it was today.

The fact that the stewards have been so wishy washy with their penalties this year is what makes it hard to understand. We all saw the Senna/Vettel accident where either could of been penalized for contact and neither were.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:53 pm 
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lamo wrote:
froze wrote:
lamo wrote:
So if you lose control and spin into another car whilst trying to overtake it and thus ending his race you do not deserve a penalty?

Crazy.

No because the rear stepping out in that situation was unexpected. Is losing the rear driver induced? Maybe while accelerating, but on that point it was totally unexpected.


Unexpected or not, penalties are given for the outcome of the action. The outcome was a driver error causing another driver to retire.

Not just another driver, the race leader which is usually seriously frowned upon by the FIA. Remember the FIA comment on Grosjean taking out the championship leader Alonso and how it matters to them. If FIA goes lenient on people taking out race leaders, F1 will turn into another GP2.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Any different to this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcHMf9sD5gM

I don't recall people being to sympathetic to Pastor. Its harsh but Hulk lost control of the vehicle and hit another car. Therefore he caused an accident. He made a mistake and was punished for it.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:54 pm 
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iceman_fan90 wrote:
It was a ridiculous penalty. FIA probably trying to help Alonso win. Thank goodness it didn't work!

And Vettel not even getting an investigation for doing even worse then what Hulkenberg did is..... :frown:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:54 pm 
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lamo wrote:
froze wrote:
lamo wrote:
So if you lose control and spin into another car whilst trying to overtake it and thus ending his race you do not deserve a penalty?

Crazy.

No because the rear stepping out in that situation was unexpected. Is losing the rear driver induced? Maybe while accelerating, but on that point it was totally unexpected.


Unexpected or not, penalties are given for the outcome of the action. The outcome was a driver error causing another driver to retire.

So what was the driver error exactly?

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