planetf1.com

The point is, he's an F1 driver and should be in control when making an attempt to pass, he took the risk and lost control and hit him, this is not a clean overtake and took another driver out of the race. This is a big no for any F1 driver and should be punished harshly.

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Driver Instructor & Test Driver

Basically, in your view, every single pass that results in contact should be outlawed or dealt with harshly, correct?


I guess you want a very boring race season where drivers ensure they are clean and that each allow 3 feet for safe passing moves.

McLaren say he has apologized

I think your missing the whole point of Formula One, a none contact sport. Your sounding like you want F1 to be like BTCC with guys hitting each other to pass. Making contact is not the only way to pass, we have seen many clean overtakes this season with no contact.

That's the whole point this is F1 and you can't be taking drivers out of the race by losing control in a failed overtaking attempt, intentional or not. If you want that to happen then you may as well watch BTCC or destruction derby.




Even the man him self admits he made a mistake and now says sorry, he knows it's his fault and deserved the penalty. The Hulk is to down to earth to make excuses unlike most here.

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Driver Instructor & Test Driver

All Im saying is that contact happens in racing even F1. We have seen plenty of incidents this year where there have been zero penalties applied yet a few have had penalties. To call Formula 1 a non-contact sport goes to show what your thinking is. You feel that any contact is too much contact and in racing that doesnt happen.

Of course Nico is going to apologize. Im not saying he didnt screw up but Im saying, as well as others, that he didnt deserve a penalty.

If that was between Alonso (role of Hulk) and Vettel (Lewis) for the lead and that incident made Alonso world champion today, should he have got a penalty?

You can punt your rival out of a race so long as you did not do it deliberately?

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

No, It was a racing incident. I don't think either of them did very well really. Lewis was gaining on a taxi Caterham and although he didn't actually get in the way he could have, Hulkenberg was on the inside and level with Hamilton, hamilton was on the dry....neither driver had any intention of backing off, it could so easily have been the other way around. Ted Kravitz mentioned in passing the Hulkenberg penalty and the safety car, the idea of it helping certain other drivers.
By the way the "yellow" flags on or around lap17 when Vettel passed Kobayashi were yellow and red apparently and the Senna hitting Vettel was that not Senna's duty to look where he was going and move to the left, right or break harder?
Very pleased Vettel won, he deserved it 100%, a real racer from the back to where he needed to be

Did Vettel deserve the penalty for T-boning Button in what was it, Spa 2010 I think? Did Maldonado deserve the penalty in Silverstone this year? Did Lewis deserve the penalty in Japan 2008? Did Vettel deserve the penalty in Italy this year?

If you stop handing out penalties that are obvious, it wont be long before this bunch of paid drivers turns F1 into GP2. The FIA has also made it clear in their ruling against Grosjean at Spa this year that taking out championship contenders (and by inference race leaders) is a serious no-no and it matters who gets taken out and where and in which manner. It wont take long for Hulk to become another Maldonado if he wasnt penalized today. See where it has gotten Maldonado, he races clean now and Hulk needs to learn the same.

ed

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Driver Instructor & Test Driver

Well, Im sure the stewards wouldnt penalize either if they were fighting for the position or at least looked at it after the race. The fact that it happened so soon after the wreck makes it seem like the FIA went with a knee jerk reaction without listening to either driver.

Again, in racing, contact happens. If you want a non-contact racing event you will need to start up your own series. Deliberate wrecks (Schumi and Grosjean for instance) need policing not racing wrecks where two drivers are competing for a spot.

And lets also not forget he potentially cost McLaren 2nd in the constructors that's a few million $ right there. (Add the damage bill also)

F1 Is not a play ground for guys to go crashing each other intentional or not, it has drastic consequences.




Exactly.

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Driver Instructor & Test Driver

Contact is fine, nothing wrong with a little contact especially wheel onto wheel.

Make contact and take somebody else out due entirely to your own error, 100%, fall on your sword and take the drive through.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

Whilst i agree Hulkenberg may have cost McLaren 2nd in the constructors championship, which is bad! I don't see him as another Maldonado at all!!!, that's unfair the guy ha done really well this season!

This may be the only time i ever say this, Chinki: you convinced me.

Racing incident it is but he deserves the penalty for damaging another driver's race.

No, McLaren cost themselves second in the WCC thanks to unreliable cars. If you break down each incident into a "what caused Hamilton to lose the WDC and McLaren the WCC" you can have thousands of different answers.


Hell, look at when GJ ran into DLR and it was classified as a racing incident by the stewards when GJ or DLR could of easily made no contact. Again, inconsistent stewards make for inconsistent rulings that make for bad rulings throughout the year. If GJ had hit Vettel would he got a penalty? If so, is that saying the stewards "protect" the front runners and dont care about the middle pack guys? What statement does that send?

Why not just say that ANY contact will result in a drive through penalty for any driver involved?

Completely ignoring the fact. The problem was not contact it was that he ended another drivers race in an incident that was 100% his fault.

Exactly the same reason why Seb took a driver through here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt87VZZzdd8

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

What Hulk did today was right out of Maldonado's book in Silverstone and Maldonado got penalized for that. The Hulk should have known that he could never make the corner on the wet part of the track and he should have backed off. Maldonado used to be in a similar mode till the penalties by the FIA sobered him up.
I am a Lewis fan and sure I would have liked to see him go out on a high, and as much as it hurt Lewis and his fans, I am sure Hulk is the guy who probably lost the most due to his mistake. Up until that point, he had been driving as good as any and he still had plenty of laps left to make a genuine move stick and take his first victory of his career. He must have a sinking feeling in his heart right now that not only did he potentially lose in what could turn out to be his only shot at a victory, but this could potentially derail his career if he doesnt come up with the minerals next year.

Yes.

He lost control of his car all by himself and ended another driver's race in the process. Automatic drive through. Simple as that, that has been the precedent all season.

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1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Simple, but correct again, even Hulk admits it, to many blinded people denying facts.




Correct said again, but he don't get it,.

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Driver Instructor & Test Driver

Yup that is how it works in F1 now and on this high and after an incident packed day, I am off to bed now. You keep your nose clean around here fellas and dont let the mods give you a drive thru. Cheers

He took the race leader out in an incident that was 100% his fault, why SHOULD'NT he be penalised?

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"Where are all the good men dead, in the heart or in the head?"

Give 'em hell Dani!

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Does this mean 61% of the forum we're supporting Lewis in 2011 when he and Massa had contact on a regular basis......
Lewis was fighting for position and so was Massa.... 61% feel Hulk did no wrong... Eh...So this means Lewis did no wrong to Massa... That means all the hammi fans we're correct in 2011.

No way was Hulks crash into Hamilton a racing incident, he lost control of his car in a reckless manner and deserved a drive thru, it was Grojean-aldo-esque.

If you you play online F1 games, you always get one idiot who feels he/she can outbreak the corner and end up taking you and others out in the process, my usual line is what a Newbie! followed by a nice message of you "beep head".

How did you work that out?
An apology isn't necessarily an admission of guilt, nor is it admitting you deserved a ridiculous penalty.

"I'm sorry the incident happened" - an apology not admitting guilt for what was quite obviously a racing incident due to Kovalainen hanging about on the outside of an overtaking zone.
Hamilton really shouldn't have been where he was to get hit. If he didn't get hit by the about-to-spin Hulk he would've run into the back of the Caterham.
Silly driving by Hamilton and Kovalainen.

Eh chinki?
You want it in Spanish or summink?
I don't think you can put Hulkenberg in the same boat as Maldonado, i think Maldonado is a bit of an idiot and he is, (was if you like since he has improved somewhat) a smash and bash taxi driver, i would put Grosjean in the same boat. Hulkenberg has so far done what wrong? How many crashes?
I don't think i could label a guy a singer because he sings in the shower.
Anyway, point taken. He got a drive through so there you go.

Because Formula One is not Formula Penalty. We don't need BUSQUETS in YOUR FACE DIVE. OH LOOK I'M BUSQUETS OW.

No need for the penalty given he's been clean all year and was going for a very possible gap. In those conditions, he had to be a bit more careful but I didn't see the need for a penalty. If penalties are handed out too often in these scenarios we'll be left with people too afraid to overtake.

This is a similar incident to the Kimi/Sutil incident in Monaco minus the fact Kimi simply lost the car while not trying to actually perform an overtake. It was merely an unintentional error in very tricky conditions. They happen. And in this case, Hulk was VERY close to pulling it off so it was only an error by the finest of margins.

Hell, I've seen Hamilton and Massa do worse than this to each other with gaps that barely existed in the dry and neither got penalties...

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[ Kimi Raikkonen ]
2007 Formula 1 World Drivers Champion

agree, get real with the poll results people - the overhead shot said it all- hulk lost the back end and slid into lewis

That's a pretty major difference! Hulkenberg went for (all factors considered) a risky move that ended up taking out another car. The fact that it was wet doesn't give drivers the right to launch banzai moves up the inside and blame the weather when it all goes wrong, they have to take those sort of things into consideration.

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"Where are all the good men dead, in the heart or in the head?"

Give 'em hell Dani!

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

If you want no rules, go watch a destruction derby (or NASCAR, whatever)...

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"Where are all the good men dead, in the heart or in the head?"

Give 'em hell Dani!

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Caused an avoidable accident. Simple, strightforward. Penalty.

Vettel - all part of the melee in the first half a lap of the race. For my money, a racing incident.

Of course, if you are one of the tin hat conspiracy brigade a penalty would have spoilt the show, deprived us of the pre-ordained WDC and denied us the pre-planned demonstration of Vettel coming triumphantly through the field with a damaged car.

For my money, the things that needed a penalty were the meek moves out of the way by Schumacher and the Torro Rossos when Vettel cruised up behind. It's a pity Petrov isn't still at Renault.

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Me Like - Button, Hamilton, Webber, Rosberg
Over rated, over paid - Räikkönen, Alonso, Vettel. Schumacher
Disappointing - Massa, Kobayashi
I may be wrong about - Alonso

I don't think it was deserved. Yes, the crash was his fault if you have to find the guilty one, but I think it was pure racing incident. He was very close to Hamilton on that straight, so it was very realistic effort. Nothing like Perez's or Maldonado's kamikaze moves which are doomed from the beginning. Hulkenberg was inside, Hamilton was outside and it was very close to be a nice and clean overtake. He just lost his back slightly on a wet track.

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Racing incident, one dry line which Lewis was occupying so Hulk had to tiptoe on the wet track. Sh!t happens

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Multi 21 or Catch 22?!

It ain't hating just 'cause it's not love

So was Vettel's penalty deserved when he T-boned JB in Spa a couple of years ago?

^^ This.

If you don't penalise people for bad driving, then you encourage bad drivers.

Looking at the footage again, it seems that penalty was a little harsh imo. He was going for a realistic gap but just lost it in tricky conditions, it was totally his fault yes, but don't penalize a guy for trying to win a race.

causing an avoidable collission= drive through
deserved

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

It's not penalising the guy for trying to win the race, it's penalising him for trying a move that, given the track conditions, was more than likely doomed to fail.

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"Where are all the good men dead, in the heart or in the head?"

Give 'em hell Dani!

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Hulkenberg costs McLaren second in constructors



http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/4373 ... structors/

Guess we wont be seeing him in a McLaren in the future, way to limit your options of getting in a top team.

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Driver Instructor & Test Driver

This crash cost a lot of $$$$

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

+1

Agreed he was in a position to have a go, could of been a bit more patient but hey if anyone understands it's lewis.