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Haribo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:07 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Nico Hulkenberg
Kimi Räikkönen
Jenson Button
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel
Fernando Alonso
Michael Schumacher
Romain Grosjean
Mark Webber
Nico Rosberg
Daniel Ricciardo
Pastor Maldonado
Felipe Massa
Sergio Perez
Kamui Kobayashi
Paul di Resta
Jean-Eric Vergne
Charles Pic
Vitaly Petrov
Timo Glock
Heikki Kovalainen
Bruno Senna
Pedro de la Rosa
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Narain Karthikeyan





Quite controversial, but that is how i see them entering 2013.

The ranking was about 2012, just to say..

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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:21 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Surely if you rate Hulk 1st you would have to put Di Resta in the top 6?


theoretically i should, but i don't. starting Valencia Hulkenberg beat Paul in every single race they finished together bar Singapore, sometimes by quite a margin as well.

Another thing in my post is Rosberg, who i found difficult to rank. 2012 saw MSC get very close in terms of raw pace, but could that be attributed to Merc doing a lot of testing starting mid season? (something to look for in 2013 perhaps?) or maybe Rosberg did have a bad season. Even so i believe Rosberg can beat Lewis next year as he is quite fast, maybe i should bump him up to above MSC. but the merc was so poor after Monaco that both drivers disappeared, so it is hard to rate them.


ATH, what should i do to change my rankings?

You do realise that Button basically was only quicker than Hamilton twice during the season and was lapped by Hamilton in one race etc etc etc

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Alienturnedhuman
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:45 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
ATH, what should i do to change my rankings?

If anyone wants to change their vote just post a new list in the thread - don't go back and edit your original list as there is no guarantee that I will notice the edit (if fact, unless my attention is drawn to it I won't)

My system overwrites any previous vote to ensure no one can sneak in multiple votes (ie, the same person posting multiple lists on different pages in hope I hadn't noticed they had already voted)

Not even Red Bull could find a loophole in my system ;)
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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
ATH, what should i do to change my rankings?

If anyone wants to change their vote just post a new list in the thread - don't go back and edit your original list as there is no guarantee that I will notice the edit (if fact, unless my attention is drawn to it I won't)

My system overwrites any previous vote to ensure no one can sneak in multiple votes (ie, the same person posting multiple lists on different pages in hope I hadn't noticed they had already voted)

Not even Red Bull could find a loophole in my system ;)

Newey scratches his chin :frown:

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M.Nader -DODZ-
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:19 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
You do realise that Button basically was only quicker than Hamilton twice during the season and was lapped by Hamilton in one race etc etc etc


I know, the thing Lewis lacks is not outright speed IMHO.

Haribo wrote:
The ranking was about 2012, just to say..


The ranking is how you see the drivers after 2012 to evaluate how they have changed in your opinion. this is not an 2012 review, but more where do you see them in light of the previous years.
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M.Nader -DODZ-
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Nico Hulkenberg
Kimi Räikkönen
Jenson Button
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel
Fernando Alonso
Nico Rosberg
Mark Webber
Romain Grosjean
Michael Schumacher
Daniel Ricciardo
Sergio Perez
Pastor Maldonado
Felipe Massa
Kamui Kobayashi
Paul di Resta
Jean-Eric Vergne
Charles Pic
Vitaly Petrov
Timo Glock
Heikki Kovalainen
Bruno Senna
Pedro de la Rosa
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Narain Karthikeyan
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FormulaFun
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:25 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You do realise that Button basically was only quicker than Hamilton twice during the season and was lapped by Hamilton in one race etc etc etc


I know, the thing Lewis lacks is not outright speed IMHO.


But you ranked Schumacher ahead of Rosberg (by quite a margin) due to the fact he could nearly match him in raw speed, but was also beaten by him 3 years in a row, then you ranked Button above Hamilton, even though he couldn't match Hamilton for pace at all, and was beaten by him 2/3 seasons, furthermore, do you honestly think that Hulkenberg and Button are better than Hamilton, Vettel & Alonso

Not to mention that Hulkenburg tops the list whilst Di Resta is nearer the bottom
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pokerman
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:27 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You do realise that Button basically was only quicker than Hamilton twice during the season and was lapped by Hamilton in one race etc etc etc


I know, the thing Lewis lacks is not outright speed IMHO.

Haribo wrote:
The ranking was about 2012, just to say..


The ranking is how you see the drivers after 2012 to evaluate how they have changed in your opinion. this is not an 2012 review, but more where do you see them in light of the previous years.

No its supposed to be a 2012 driver ranking based solely on this seasons performances

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FormulaFun
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:29 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You do realise that Button basically was only quicker than Hamilton twice during the season and was lapped by Hamilton in one race etc etc etc


I know, the thing Lewis lacks is not outright speed IMHO.

Haribo wrote:
The ranking was about 2012, just to say..


The ranking is how you see the drivers after 2012 to evaluate how they have changed in your opinion. this is not an 2012 review, but more where do you see them in light of the previous years.

No its supposed to be a 2012 driver ranking based solely on this seasons performances


from OP "list the drivers in the order you rate them right now, best at the top. That's it. You're not rating them on this season, just an overall feel for where you think that driver sits right now in terms of his ability."
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Alienturnedhuman
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You do realise that Button basically was only quicker than Hamilton twice during the season and was lapped by Hamilton in one race etc etc etc


I know, the thing Lewis lacks is not outright speed IMHO.

Haribo wrote:
The ranking was about 2012, just to say..


The ranking is how you see the drivers after 2012 to evaluate how they have changed in your opinion. this is not an 2012 review, but more where do you see them in light of the previous years.

No its supposed to be a 2012 driver ranking based solely on this seasons performances

Just to clarify, this is a poll to determine how people rank the drivers right now, at the conclusion of the year. The best way to think about it is if you were running a team for 2013 with an unlimited budget, in which order would you choose your first driver.

So this is not a review of their 2012 season, or a review of where they stand taking into account of their career as a whole, just how you rank them at this point in time. Of course, past successes can be factored in to that, if you feel they are relevant to how you rank them right now. A good example of this would be Schumacher, the fact that he was once the fastest, most dominating driver in the sport counts for little in his ranking right now, however the experience he picked up then, his knowledge for developing a car counts for a lot. However (arguably) many might consider his recent lack of motivation to be the most important factor to take into account.

Obviously, this is an entirely subjective poll (but then all lists like this are, even those conducted by the most expertest of experts) so how you weight the different factors is ultimately up to the voter. Taking the concept to its most extreme, it could be argued that Brazil counts for more than everything else put together, given that it's the latest race, and without the Safety Car, Hulkenberg would have probably won the race with Button second, although I would strongly argue against basing opinions solely on the last race and rather look at the trends towards the end of the season (that's why I ranked Hamilton above Alonso, and Perez and Grosjean in the bottom half)

You might also wish to consider the frame of mind that the drivers are in going in to next season, does Hamilton's move from McLaren to Mercedes rejuvenate him or will being in a midfield car bring out his stroppy side? Will three seasons of being Alonso's whipping boy consign Massa to obscurity or will his upturn in form at the end of the season renew his fighting spirit? Obviously, this can only apply to the drivers who have race seats next year, this is essentially a season exit poll, but their destinations for next year can ultimately help project their trajectory.
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MassAlonso
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Fernando Alonso
Sebastian Vettel
Kimi Räikkönen
Lewis Hamilton
Nico Hulkenberg
Sergio Perez
Jenson Button
Mark Webber
Pastor Maldonado
Felipe Massa
Nico Rosberg
Kamui Kobayashi
Romain Grosjean
Paul di Resta
Michael Schumacher
Jean-Eric Vergne
Bruno Senna
Daniel Ricciardo
Vitaly Petrov
Timo Glock
Heikki Kovalainen
Charles Pic
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Pedro de la Rosa
Narain Karthikeyan
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M.Nader -DODZ-
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:29 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
But you ranked Schumacher ahead of Rosberg (by quite a margin) due to the fact he could nearly match him in raw speed, but was also beaten by him 3 years in a row, then you ranked Button above Hamilton, even though he couldn't match Hamilton for pace at all, and was beaten by him 2/3 seasons, furthermore, do you honestly think that Hulkenberg and Button are better than Hamilton, Vettel & Alonso

Not to mention that Hulkenburg tops the list whilst Di Resta is nearer the bottom


I edited the Rosberg/Schumacher battle now. Rosberg is ahead although i am always coming back and forward between them.

Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg over 3 years, Convincingly during the first 2, but this year he has been faster than Rosberg IMO, not consistently but fast enough and i rate Rosberg, and Schumacher's history says just how fast he WAS and i believe this year he was back close to that. but you are right right now Rosberg is the better of the two, MSC made too many mistakes during the races. and i believe Merc were doing experimental work during most of that second half and both cars were not using the same parts so that skews things a bit.

as for JB/Lewis now this is a debate!, Lewis is clearly the faster of the two and pace is not why i ranked Lewis below Jenson. look at it this way, if Mclaren would produce a dominant car kind of like the Prost/Senna days i would think Jenson would take the tittle and not Lewis. for me Lewis just lacks something extra which i believe he will learn at Merc.

And yes, I do beleive Hulkenberg and Jenson are a match for Alonso and Hamilton. Vettel i have no idea how good he is, he is one of the best that is all i can conclude at this point.

I know you may think that my choice for Jenson/Kimi is debatable, but Hulkenberg is inexcusable and i agree but i just think he is the next best thing.

and as i said Hulkenberg beat Diresta in every race (they finished) since Valencia bar singapore, out qualified, and more importantly scored more points and considering the car the gap between them was quite big. Hulkenberg is quite a bit better IMO.
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sennafan24
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:42 pm 
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I can maybe understand why people would rank Jenson above Lewis in general.

But based on 2012, its no contest. Lewis beat him in pretty much every way.

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Haribo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:59 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
But you ranked Schumacher ahead of Rosberg (by quite a margin) due to the fact he could nearly match him in raw speed, but was also beaten by him 3 years in a row, then you ranked Button above Hamilton, even though he couldn't match Hamilton for pace at all, and was beaten by him 2/3 seasons, furthermore, do you honestly think that Hulkenberg and Button are better than Hamilton, Vettel & Alonso

Not to mention that Hulkenburg tops the list whilst Di Resta is nearer the bottom


I edited the Rosberg/Schumacher battle now. Rosberg is ahead although i am always coming back and forward between them.

Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg over 3 years, Convincingly during the first 2, but this year he has been faster than Rosberg IMO, not consistently but fast enough and i rate Rosberg, and Schumacher's history says just how fast he WAS and i believe this year he was back close to that. but you are right right now Rosberg is the better of the two, MSC made too many mistakes during the races. and i believe Merc were doing experimental work during most of that second half and both cars were not using the same parts so that skews things a bit.

as for JB/Lewis now this is a debate!, Lewis is clearly the faster of the two and pace is not why i ranked Lewis below Jenson. look at it this way, if Mclaren would produce a dominant car kind of like the Prost/Senna days i would think Jenson would take the tittle and not Lewis. for me Lewis just lacks something extra which i believe he will learn at Merc.

And yes, I do beleive Hulkenberg and Jenson are a match for Alonso and Hamilton. Vettel i have no idea how good he is, he is one of the best that is all i can conclude at this point.

I know you may think that my choice for Jenson/Kimi is debatable, but Hulkenberg is inexcusable and i agree but i just think he is the next best thing.

and as i said Hulkenberg beat Diresta in every race (they finished) since Valencia bar singapore, out qualified, and more importantly scored more points and considering the car the gap between them was quite big. Hulkenberg is quite a bit better IMO.


Intersting from Paul Hembery ( Pirelli ) He tweeted about a bet for the 2013 F1 champion.
Quote:
Just been asked for a bet on #F1 champion 2013. Would have said Lewis if he not moved. Tough call. Need to see winter test first .


So if Lewis was favourite to be WDC 2013 at McLaren from Hembery, why did he not chose Jenson Button , than (logical joyce as he will be McLs Nr1 next year)?
Curious, the tyres are said to be softer next year,and have more degeneration, wich should favour Button, and MCL is supposed to be one of the best cars 2013? Shouldn't be JB be the favourite for WDC ?
What does this tell about JB's view from an tyre expert?

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sandyf1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
But you ranked Schumacher ahead of Rosberg (by quite a margin) due to the fact he could nearly match him in raw speed, but was also beaten by him 3 years in a row, then you ranked Button above Hamilton, even though he couldn't match Hamilton for pace at all, and was beaten by him 2/3 seasons, furthermore, do you honestly think that Hulkenberg and Button are better than Hamilton, Vettel & Alonso

Not to mention that Hulkenburg tops the list whilst Di Resta is nearer the bottom


I edited the Rosberg/Schumacher battle now. Rosberg is ahead although i am always coming back and forward between them.

Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg over 3 years, Convincingly during the first 2, but this year he has been faster than Rosberg IMO, not consistently but fast enough and i rate Rosberg, and Schumacher's history says just how fast he WAS and i believe this year he was back close to that. but you are right right now Rosberg is the better of the two, MSC made too many mistakes during the races. and i believe Merc were doing experimental work during most of that second half and both cars were not using the same parts so that skews things a bit.

as for JB/Lewis now this is a debate!, Lewis is clearly the faster of the two and pace is not why i ranked Lewis below Jenson. look at it this way, if Mclaren would produce a dominant car kind of like the Prost/Senna days i would think Jenson would take the tittle and not Lewis. for me Lewis just lacks something extra which i believe he will learn at Merc.

And yes, I do beleive Hulkenberg and Jenson are a match for Alonso and Hamilton. Vettel i have no idea how good he is, he is one of the best that is all i can conclude at this point.

I know you may think that my choice for Jenson/Kimi is debatable, but Hulkenberg is inexcusable and i agree but i just think he is the next best thing.

and as i said Hulkenberg beat Diresta in every race (they finished) since Valencia bar singapore, out qualified, and more importantly scored more points and considering the car the gap between them was quite big. Hulkenberg is quite a bit better IMO.


Intersting from Paul Hembery ( Pirelli ) He tweeted about a bet for the 2013 F1 champion.
Quote:
Just been asked for a bet on #F1 champion 2013. Would have said Lewis if he not moved. Tough call. Need to see winter test first .


So if Lewis was favourite to be WDC 2013 at McLaren from Hembery, why did he not chose Jenson Button , than (logical joyce as he will be McLs Nr1 next year)?
Curious, the tyres are said to be softer next year,and have more degeneration, wich should favour Button, and MCL is supposed to be one of the best cars 2013? Shouldn't be JB be the favourite for WDC ?
What does this tell about JB's view from an tyre expert?


Should Paul Hembery's opinion be taken as gospel ?
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M.Nader -DODZ-
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:07 pm 
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He clearly thinks Lewis would capitalize better on that, I don't. His opinion is certainly more valued/valid than mine, doesn't make either of us more right though
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XRV750
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:25 pm 
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chinki wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
I started to type something like "sorry if I offended you somehow" but I stopped for the simple reason that it would be total bullshit. I'm not sorry, I don't really know your problem is with this thread, and frankly I don't give a crap. So you know what? Over to you. Do it in a "useful" way. A "no-brainer" free, all encompassing, unbiased, 100% objective analysis. One with a mathematically sound and proven methodology that will render any questioning of it's legitimacy redundant. We can all bow to your unquestionable superiority.

The quality has been declining on this forum for a while and I don't get as much time to post as I like. Coming back to a thread I started and seeing some sugarplum who doesn' even know me label the exercise useless hardly inspires me, so that's it, I'm done. Thanks to those who took the time to partake - hopefully someone will pick it up. I'll post back with the standings from previous years for comparison and then get on with enjoying the real world.

Whoa, where did that come from? Just to put some perspective to my opinions. People create polls and threads asking for the best of this and the best of that all the time and I dont have a problem with that even though they are more useless than this thread. And guess why? Because I have immense respect for your contribution to this forum and the stats you have collected over the years and share with us from time to time. I just felt that somebody who goes about collecting data in a serious manner is not getting it right this time and that is why I voiced my opinion here.

I cannot help it if you feel offended and just like you, I am not sorry about voicing my opinion. But I will say this much that the data you have collected over the years (and maybe decades) is the most impressive collection I have seen yet and your sharing it from time to time with us is highly appreciated by me :thumbup:

You should post less....a lot less..

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Haribo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:53 pm 
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sandyf1 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
But you ranked Schumacher ahead of Rosberg (by quite a margin) due to the fact he could nearly match him in raw speed, but was also beaten by him 3 years in a row, then you ranked Button above Hamilton, even though he couldn't match Hamilton for pace at all, and was beaten by him 2/3 seasons, furthermore, do you honestly think that Hulkenberg and Button are better than Hamilton, Vettel & Alonso

Not to mention that Hulkenburg tops the list whilst Di Resta is nearer the bottom


I edited the Rosberg/Schumacher battle now. Rosberg is ahead although i am always coming back and forward between them.

Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg over 3 years, Convincingly during the first 2, but this year he has been faster than Rosberg IMO, not consistently but fast enough and i rate Rosberg, and Schumacher's history says just how fast he WAS and i believe this year he was back close to that. but you are right right now Rosberg is the better of the two, MSC made too many mistakes during the races. and i believe Merc were doing experimental work during most of that second half and both cars were not using the same parts so that skews things a bit.

as for JB/Lewis now this is a debate!, Lewis is clearly the faster of the two and pace is not why i ranked Lewis below Jenson. look at it this way, if Mclaren would produce a dominant car kind of like the Prost/Senna days i would think Jenson would take the tittle and not Lewis. for me Lewis just lacks something extra which i believe he will learn at Merc.

And yes, I do beleive Hulkenberg and Jenson are a match for Alonso and Hamilton. Vettel i have no idea how good he is, he is one of the best that is all i can conclude at this point.

I know you may think that my choice for Jenson/Kimi is debatable, but Hulkenberg is inexcusable and i agree but i just think he is the next best thing.

and as i said Hulkenberg beat Diresta in every race (they finished) since Valencia bar singapore, out qualified, and more importantly scored more points and considering the car the gap between them was quite big. Hulkenberg is quite a bit better IMO.


Intersting from Paul Hembery ( Pirelli ) He tweeted about a bet for the 2013 F1 champion.
Quote:
Just been asked for a bet on #F1 champion 2013. Would have said Lewis if he not moved. Tough call. Need to see winter test first .


So if Lewis was favourite to be WDC 2013 at McLaren from Hembery, why did he not chose Jenson Button , than (logical joyce as he will be McLs Nr1 next year)?
Curious, the tyres are said to be softer next year,and have more degeneration, wich should favour Button, and MCL is supposed to be one of the best cars 2013? Shouldn't be JB be the favourite for WDC ?
What does this tell about JB's view from an tyre expert?


Should Paul Hembery's opinion be taken as gospel ?

No, but he has a very good insight, at F1 and how the tyres where used
e.g. LH run on every set of tyres used last season, about 1km more than JB & LH has improved the most on the Pirelli tyres since they got intoduced
Says of course nothing about their chances for next yea,r as LH & JB atre in different teams, but, LH seems to be able to conserve the tyres very , well- even better than JB, wich is quite interesting.

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mikeyg123
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:36 am 
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pokerman wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You do realise that Button basically was only quicker than Hamilton twice during the season and was lapped by Hamilton in one race etc etc etc


I know, the thing Lewis lacks is not outright speed IMHO.

Haribo wrote:
The ranking was about 2012, just to say..


The ranking is how you see the drivers after 2012 to evaluate how they have changed in your opinion. this is not an 2012 review, but more where do you see them in light of the previous years.

No its supposed to be a 2012 driver ranking based solely on this seasons performances


No it isn't its a ranking of how you rate the drivers as of now.
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brakesteer97
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:23 am 
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Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton - reinforced their standing atop the hierarchy; both delivered incredibly well
Sebastian Vettel - can't say he's not great but I still think the top two have something extra
Kimi Raikkonen
Jenson Button
Nico Hulkenberg - showed great pace and skill and kept clear of incidents
Mark Webber
Romain Grosjean
Felipe Massa
Pastor Maldonado - improving self control and was like a rocket at times
Nico Rosberg
Sergio Perez
Michael Schumacher - should really be higher but had some senior episodes
Daniel Ricciardo
Kamui Kobayashi
Paul Di Resta - somewhat overated from 2011 I would say
Timo Glock
Heikki Kovalainen
Jean Eric Vergne - probably better then this ranking but he was just stupid sometimes last season
Bruno Senna
Pedro de la Rosa
Charles Pic
Vitaly Petrov
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Narain Karthikeyan

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Alienturnedhuman
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:46 am 
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brakesteer97 - each driver needs to be ranked separately, no "equals" or your vote can't count...
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brakesteer97
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
brakesteer97 - each driver needs to be ranked separately, no "equals" or your vote can't count...


Ok, Fernando Alonso then Lewis Hamilton

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Jenson's Understeer
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
After receiving an extra vote for this I decided to go back and make a couple of tweaks to the analysis page so everyone can see how they personally stack up against the general vote.

http://randomperspective.com/DOLOMITE/

If you scroll down there is a list of everyone who voted and their average difference to the norm - they are then colour coded (so green if you a very close to a perfect match and red if your list bore little correlation, most of us are an inbetween shade of yellowy orange.

Of course, this is always open for more votes, I am thinking about making a web app where people can enter their own vote for the next time we do this, although obviously I'll need to think up a system to prevent people from spamming it with multiple cheat votes.


Pretty cool to see the full list, thanks! Awesome to be able to see how our own rankings stack up against the average. Funnily enough, the two drivers I've ranked the highest compared to everyone else (Grosjean and Massa) are two of my three favourites, so it goes to show that (at least in my case) even when trying to be objective and completely unbiased, it is a little difficult. And yet my list still appears to be pretty close to the overall one (second closest, I think?) so that's... interesting!

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition | 2014 position: 15th | 2013 position: 17th | 2012 position: 11th | Total podiums: 4
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tmzxaar
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Unbiased_Button_Fan is unbiased, 5.6 difference lol

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callMEcrazy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:01 pm 
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tmzxaar wrote:
Unbiased_Button_Fan is unbiased, 5.6 difference lol


do what he says, don't do what he does. :]

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Ross089
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Posts: 91
Since OP stated this should be done based on if I were a team owner, those who crash and Alonso who demands being a number one have been ranked lower than I would have otherwise.

Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastian Vettel
Jenson Button
Lewis Hamilton
Nico Rosberg
Fernando Alonso
Kamui Kobayashi
Nico Hulkenberg
Pastor Maldonado
Mark Webber
Sergio Perez
Romain Grosjean
Paul di Resta
Heikki Kovalainen
Timo Glock
Felipe Massa
Vitaly Petrov
Michael Schumacher
Bruno Senna
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Jean-Eric Vergne
Charles Pic
Daniel Ricciardo
Pedro de la Rosa
Narain Karthikeyan
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Alienturnedhuman
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Ross089 wrote:
Since OP stated this should be done based on if I were a team owner, those who crash and Alonso who demands being a number one have been ranked lower than I would have otherwise.

That was just an analogy to try and explain it, rather than to be taken 100% literally. Obviously, if you think Alonso's demands for being number 1 diminish his ability as a driver then keep that in mind. I was just using that analogy to explain the difference between ranking them in this survey compared to a "Rate their 2012 season" or "Rate them over the course of their career" Maybe a better analogy would be "If ran a team that only had one car in which order would you pick the drivers"

A driver could have had a really poor 2012 season, but you could rate them highly. A good example of this was in 2011, when Hamilton had a really poor season, lucky to be in the top 10 season performance, however his rating overall was much higher.

Do you want to revise your listing or do you wish it to stand as it is?
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IXIAN
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:09 pm 
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Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastian Vettel
Lewis Hamilton
Fernando Alonso
Jenson Button

Sergio Perez
Nico Rosberg
Kamui Kobayashi
Nico Hulkenberg
Michael Schumacher

Mark Webber
Romain Grosjean
Heikki Kovalainen
Timo Glock
Charles Pic

Pedro de la Rosa
Felipe Massa
Paul di Resta
Bruno Senna
Jerome D'Ambrosio

Jean-Eric Vergn
Daniel Ricciardo
Vitaly Petrov
Pastor Maldonado
Narain Karthikeyan
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IXIAN
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:16 pm 
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It occured to me while reviewing my list, that if I was INSTEAD an IndyCar owner with, ok, not unlimited funding, but SOME funding and ALL OUT hell-bent desire for that trophy......

Read my list backwards and you get my point?
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M.Nader -DODZ-
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:19 pm 
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IXIAN wrote:
It occured to me while reviewing my list, that if I was INSTEAD an IndyCar owner with, ok, not unlimited funding, but SOME funding and ALL OUT hell-bent desire for that trophy......

Read my list backwards and you get my point?


No spaces for the vote to be counted
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ashley313
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Sebastian Vettel
Lewis Hamilton
Fernando Alonso
Kimi Raikkonen
Mark Webber
Jenson Button
Nico Rosberg
Felipe Massa
Romain Grosjean
Nico Hulkenberg
Michael Schumacher
Sergio Perez
Pastor Maldonado
Paul Di Resta
Bruno Senna
Kamui Kobayashi
Daniel Ricciardo
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Pedro De la Rosa
Jean-Eric Vergne
Charles Pic
Timo Glock
Vitaly Petrov
Heiki Kovalainen
Narain Karthikeyan

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Infidelity
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:42 pm 
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G1: Hamilton, Alonso
G2: Raikkonen, Vettel

G3: Webber, Perez
G4: Grosjean, Maldonado, Hulkenberg

G5: Schumacher, Rosberg, Button, Ricciardo, Vergne, Senna
G6: Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Di Resta

G7: Massa, Glock, Petrov,
G8: Pic, de la Rosa, Karthikeyan

Notes,
It's a very, very vague perceptual map grouping drivers from top to low performers.
It's anything but an accurate analysis, clearly I've ignored a lot of data.
It's purely a map outlining I 'imagine' (keyword) how drivers performed relative to each other based on what I saw on television, followed via media, etc.
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Alienturnedhuman
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:56 pm 
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Infidelity wrote:
G1: Hamilton, Alonso
G2: Raikkonen, Vettel

G3: Webber, Perez
G4: Grosjean, Maldonado, Hulkenberg

G5: Schumacher, Rosberg, Button, Ricciardo, Vergne, Senna
G6: Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Di Resta

G7: Massa, Glock, Petrov,
G8: Pic, de la Rosa, Karthikeyan

Notes,
It's a very, very vague perceptual map grouping drivers from top to low performers.
It's anything but an accurate analysis, clearly I've ignored a lot of data.
It's purely a map outlining I 'imagine' (keyword) how drivers performed relative to each other based on what I saw on television, followed via media, etc.

In order to have your vote counted you must a) list every driver in the list and b) list each independently (NO equal rankings, groups etc, just a list from best to worst in order)

If you can copy and paste from this list it makes my life a lot easier as I can just paste your list straight into my system and takes me 5 seconds, rather than 5 minutes.

Fernando Alonso
Jenson Button
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Pedro de la Rosa
Paul di Resta
Timo Glock
Romain Grosjean
Lewis Hamilton
Nico Hulkenberg
Narain Karthikeyan
Kamui Kobayashi
Heikki Kovalainen
Pastor Maldonado
Felipe Massa
Sergio Perez
Vitaly Petrov
Charles Pic
Kimi Räikkönen
Daniel Ricciardo
Nico Rosberg
Michael Schumacher
Bruno Senna
Jean-Eric Vergne
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber

Thanks!
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Ross089
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:19 pm 
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"Do you want to revise your listing or do you wish it to stand as it is?"

leave my votes as they are, cheers
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Alienturnedhuman
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:39 pm 
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I have now updated the webpage so it will show you a modal breakdown of the vote for each driver if you click on their bar:

http://randomperspective.com/DOLOMITE

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Infidelity
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Posts: 296
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Infidelity wrote:
G1: Hamilton, Alonso
G2: Raikkonen, Vettel

G3: Webber, Perez
G4: Grosjean, Maldonado, Hulkenberg

G5: Schumacher, Rosberg, Button, Ricciardo, Vergne, Senna
G6: Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Di Resta

G7: Massa, Glock, Petrov,
G8: Pic, de la Rosa, Karthikeyan

Notes,
It's a very, very vague perceptual map grouping drivers from top to low performers.
It's anything but an accurate analysis, clearly I've ignored a lot of data.
It's purely a map outlining I 'imagine' (keyword) how drivers performed relative to each other based on what I saw on television, followed via media, etc.

In order to have your vote counted you must a) list every driver in the list and b) list each independently (NO equal rankings, groups etc, just a list from best to worst in order)

If you can copy and paste from this list it makes my life a lot easier as I can just paste your list straight into my system and takes me 5 seconds, rather than 5 minutes.

Fernando Alonso
Jenson Button
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Pedro de la Rosa
Paul di Resta
Timo Glock
Romain Grosjean
Lewis Hamilton
Nico Hulkenberg
Narain Karthikeyan
Kamui Kobayashi
Heikki Kovalainen
Pastor Maldonado
Felipe Massa
Sergio Perez
Vitaly Petrov
Charles Pic
Kimi Räikkönen
Daniel Ricciardo
Nico Rosberg
Michael Schumacher
Bruno Senna
Jean-Eric Vergne
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber

Thanks!



Lewis Hamilton
Fernando Alonso
Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
Sergio Perez
Romain Grosjean
Pastor Maldonado
Nico Hulkenberg
Jenson Button
Nico Rosberg
Michael Schumacher,
Daniel Ricciardo
Jean Eric Vergne
Bruno Senna
Kumui Kobayashi
Heikki Kovalainen
Paul Di Resta
Felipe Massa
Timo Glock
Vitali Petrov
Charles Pic
Pedro de la Rosa
Narain Karthikeyan
Jerome d'Ambrosio
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IXIAN
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:06 am 
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Posts: 204
Location: USA
Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastian Vettel
Lewis Hamilton
Fernando Alonso
Jenson Button
Sergio Perez
Nico Rosberg
Kamui Kobayashi
Nico Hulkenberg
Michael Schumacher
Mark Webber
Romain Grosjean
Heikki Kovalainen
Timo Glock
Charles Pic
Pedro de la Rosa
Felipe Massa
Paul di Resta
Bruno Senna
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Jean-Eric Vergn
Daniel Ricciardo
Vitaly Petrov
Pastor Maldonado
Narain Karthikeyan
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lamo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:23 am 
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Posts: 4328
Alonso over Hamilton due to avoiding incidence and not getting caught up in trouble as often. Raikkonen over Button due to the incredible consistency over the last year and Buttons inconsistency with tyre issues. Massa also suffers from his inconsistency.

Fernando Alonso
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel
Kimi Raikkonen
Jenson Button
Nico Hulkenberg
Mark Webber
Pastor Maldonado
Nico Rosberg
Michael Schumacher
Felipe Massa
Sergio Perez
Heikki Kovalainen
Kumui Kobayashi
Romain Grosjean
Bruno Senna
Paul Di Resta
Daniel Ricciardo
Jean Eric Vergne
Timo Glock
Vitali Petrov
Charles Pic
Jerome d'Ambrosio
Pedro de la Rosa
Narain Karthikeyan

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Alienturnedhuman
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:23 pm 
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I am thinking of creating a public web interface for people to vote in this in the future, and to then go be able to go back and revise their vote after each race (or whenever they want) so we can keep track of the changing perception of the driver rankings throughout the season (obviously, it would have a nicer presentation than the rather primitive interface the current stats are displayed on)

It would probably be a drag and drop system, so you can just order the drivers in a list, thus eliminating the problems with people not understanding the rules, making typos, etc etc...

The only issue with this is that I would have to create some sort of sign up system to limit voting fraud (because if not some people will just create multiple accounts and spam their rankings) which would therefore probably necessitate people to register their email address for confirmation. Obviously, these email addresses would not be passed on to third parties or used for an unsolicited mailing. (I would probably add an OPT IN email notification system, but I stress, that would be OPT IN)

As creating such a system would take a fair bit of time on my part, I guess what I need to know is would a such a sign up system be a barrier for many people? Would people be interested in taking part?
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M.Nader -DODZ-
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Posts: 2986
I think you should talk to the mods to see if such a thing can be done in relation to the forum (a sticky perhaps) so that no login is needed when you are loged in the forum.

Would be nice though, it is known that F1 fans have short memories and looking at last year's results things are a bit different so having things updated race by race will give a better perspective ofcourse
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