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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:39 pm 
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bbobeckyj wrote:
Vettel 15.61
Alonso 15.44
Räikkönen 10.35
Hamilton 13.57

1 After much talk about Hamilton being a WDC contender if not for car failures and team problems, this doesn't indicate that it would have been likely.


Of course it doesn't since it ignores races where he retired... please engage brain...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:25 pm 
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tmzxaar wrote:
bbobeckyj wrote:
Vettel 15.61
Alonso 15.44
Räikkönen 10.35
Hamilton 13.57
Button 11.75
Webber 10.52
Massa 6.42
Grosjean 8.72
Rosberg 5.47
Perez 4.71
Hulkenburg 3.71
Kobayashi 4
Schumacher 4.08
Di Resta 2.55
Maldonado 6.42 (3.75 without the win)
Senna 2.06
Vergne 1
Ricciardo 0.52

Points per finish for all that have any.

I did the first few as I was curious about a few of things-
1 After much talk about Hamilton being a WDC contender if not for car failures and team problems, this doesn't indicate that it would have been likely.
2 Grosjean matching Räikkönen if not for crashing all of the time.

And then I thought I'd do the rest.
Most are pretty clear winners in the team mate wars.


Yes but Hamilton retired from the lead 3 times.

:thumbup: This!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:14 pm 
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bbobeckyj wrote:
Hamilton 13.57

tmzxaar wrote:
Yes but Hamilton retired from the lead 3 times.

Eva09 wrote:
Of course it doesn't since it ignores races where he retired... please engage brain...

Yes yes yes... He also retired from a lap down (16th) and from 8th on the grid. And Vettel also retired from the lead in Spain. There is no way to play 'what if' and be accurate, where do you stop taking things into account? I did a simple division and posted it for anyone who is curious to see it.

14.16 would be his average if you want to assume that he would actually have won those three races, and finished in the same position he retired from in the other two. And it's still not enough to beat Vettel 15.61, and Alonso, 15.44.

Perhaps average qualifying and finishing positions reveal more...
Alonso's average quali = 6.1
Average finish = 3 (ignoring his DNFs)

Vettal q = 4.1
Finish = 3.3 (ignoring his DNFs)

Hamilton q = 3.3
Finish = 5.33... (ignoring his DNFs)
Or 5.35 with the positions he held at the time of his DNFs, so actually slightly worse!
And no, I'm not going to guess the amount he lost by slow pit stops, (yes I can read minds over the internet :D )but I would bet money on it that it wasn't 2 positions every race.

The funny thing about removing anomalous results and calculating a mean average, is that it still shows the average performance of the driver.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:50 am 
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1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Raikkonen
5. Webber
6. Hulkenberg
7. Button
8. Rosberg
9. Perez
10. Schumacher

First four easy for me but after that very difficult.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:05 am 
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And for the Hamilton fans.
His average points excluding the two DNFs where he wasn't leading, but including the three DNFs where he was leading, and assuming that he would have kept the win:
4.61
Still not as good as Vettel or Alonso.
I'll try to give him probable finishes if he didn't suffer the misfortune of poor pit stops, mechanical failures or crashes.

Win for Australia, as it was a poor mechanical start that cost him there.
And the win in Malaysia.
Second in China.
Second in Bahrain.
The win in Spain.
(5th in Monaco.)
(Wins the Canadian.)
(4th in the European. Though two cars in front did have mechanical DNFs.)
8th in GB.
8th in Germany.
(Win in Hungary)
7th in Spa.
(Win in Italy)
Win in Singapore
(5th in Japan)
3rd in Korea
(4th in India)
Win in Abu Dhabi.
(Win in USA.)
Second in Brazil.

=2.95

VS 3.3 for Vettel and 3 for Alonso. And that's without taking their issues into account.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:37 am 
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Interesting, So basically the only way for Lewis to win the WDC would have been.

1. Him having absolutely no misfortune whatsoever (and apparently finding pace to beat the faster Button in Australia, and no one challenging his lead even)
2. Seb and Alonso BOTH having misfortunate events and Lewis benefiting from them
3. Other drivers such as Massa and Kimi also having problems (Korea)

even then he would have just won the tittle, thank you for that it really settles in the "what if" situation.


As for your Original post: Massa is SLOOOOOW!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:27 am 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
As for your Original post: Massa is SLOOOOOW!

Massa scored 122 points all season. 99 came in the last ten races. In the same period Alonso scored 124, which included Massa letting him past, and taking a grid penalty, and being told not to race Alonso, in half of them.

An oft-repeated criticism of Raikkonen and Button (for example) is that they are peerless when they have a car to their liking (maybe add Vettel to that list with the blown exhausts.) While Alonso and Hamilton are said to be able to cope with a car less to their liking. Maybe Massa was/is in the first group.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:41 pm 
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1. Vettel. Phenomanlly quick when confident in the car, made a few errors and a couple of PR gaffs.
2. Alonso. Did Well with an indifferent car that said did tail a little towards end of season.
3. Hamilton. Within a p**s poor character lies an outstanding driver; hopefully Brawn will grip him.
4. Raikkonen. 1st for funniest moment when talking to team and getting lost, Glad hes back!
5. Webber. Not his best season but was consistent and professional, a good example to the jnrs.
6. Massa. Not solely for performance but for being a Team Player, the back end saw him improve.
7. Button. A couple of superb drives but not consistent enough . Hamilton outperformed him IMHO
8. Hulkenberg. Showed signs of clear potential, a hot prospect for the future.
9. Maldonado. Mad as a box of frogs but exciting as hell, if he could just stop hitting others!
10. Rosberg. Too inconsistent to challenge the top drivers, but if he squares that away wait and see.

Overall the best team won both championships. I would nt bet against the same in 2013.

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