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 Post subject: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:07 am 
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Just think, in his runner up seasons (07,10,12). All Fernando had to do was finish 1 race in each of those seasons 1 place higher to become champion! Not trolling! Just remarking at how little things can make such a big difference!


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:09 am 
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Granto! wrote:
Just think, in his runner up seasons (07,10,12). All Fernando had to do was finish 1 race in each of those seasons 1 place higher to become champion! Not trolling! Just remarking at how little things can make such a big difference!


Indeed, but not only for Alonso


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:11 am 
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Ok, the same applies to all drivers! The only other one would be Hamilton who would be on 2 WDC (07)
Current drivers of course!


Last edited by Granto! on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:12 am 
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Granto! wrote:
Ok, the same applies to all drivers! The only other one would be Hamilton who would be on 2 WDC (07)


The +only+ other one? What is the criteria then?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:15 am 
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Yeah, just needed more subservient teammates more often. Isn't that how he does it?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:15 am 
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Sorry, see my edit. Again not trolling. There's been plenty of close championships over the years. All I'm saying is how different things could be. A butterfly flaps its wings etc


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:16 am 
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netmonger wrote:
Yeah, just needed more subservient teammates more often. Isn't that how he does it?


He would been champion today if his teammate was Piquet Jr ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:19 am 
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Sounds like netmonger is trolling. See my OP, you don't need to bring things like that into this thread! It was an innocent observation!


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:26 am 
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Lab105. Can you explain how?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:33 am 
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Granto! wrote:
Lab105. Can you explain how?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Fo ... ontroversy


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:39 am 
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fernando doesnt deserve 07 titles. He exchange kimi 's setup and pit stop race fuel strategies with mike coughlan via email and use it for his advantage, still losing out to the rookie. Had lewis nt commit serious mistake in last 2 gp, it would looks really bad instead of a tie for alonso.

2010, perform inconsistenly on 1st half, leaving too much to do on 2nd half. Inability to overtake slower Petrov, lose out eventually.

2012, He got alot of luck seriously, had Vettel nt having his issues, he already wrap up the title in austin.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:41 am 
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Well Lab105, looks like your boy Mister Hotshot put me in my place! Fernando would have been champ today if Piquet Jr crashed on purpose! You guys astound me!


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:45 am 
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Nvrdieyoung.......ok. So far nobody seems to have figured out the point of this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:50 am 
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Granto! wrote:
Nvrdieyoung.......ok. So far nobody seems to have figured out the point of this thread.


The point is that nobody cares or remembers who comes 2nd right?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:52 am 
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Tell that to the next guy that mentions Stirling Moss lol! Or Gilles!


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:58 am 
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Granto! wrote:
Tell that to the next guy that mentions Stirling Moss lol! Or Gilles!


Piquet Jr cares!


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:01 am 
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lab105 wrote:
Granto! wrote:
Tell that to the next guy that mentions Stirling Moss lol! Or Gilles!


Piquet Jr cares!

I did laugh at that. I haven't quite worked out why yet but kudos!


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:10 am 
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On topic again! The lap Alonso elected to stay out on slicks when the team had inters ready for him! Anyone know how much time he lost? I would guess around 20s! Could that have made a difference to the outcome of the race (put him right behind Button and maybe pressure him into an error?) That's the one that's been bugging me! Did Alonso forfeit a "potential" win (and therefore title) by staying out 1 more lap?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:12 am 
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Granto! wrote:
lab105 wrote:
Granto! wrote:
Tell that to the next guy that mentions Stirling Moss lol! Or Gilles!


Piquet Jr cares!

I did laugh at that. I haven't quite worked out why yet but kudos!


Just playing lol, it is a valid point you make about the points differences that decided the titles though.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:14 am 
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Granto! wrote:
On topic again! The lap Alonso elected to stay out on slicks when the team had inters ready for him! Anyone know how much time he lost? I would guess around 20s! Could that have made a difference to the outcome of the race (put him right behind Button and maybe pressure him into an error?) That's the one that's been bugging me! Did Alonso forfeit a "potential" win (and therefore title) by staying out 1 more lap?


Doubt it would have been 20 seconds, I really thought Red Bull had lost it for Vettel when he stopped twice in 2/3 laps for slicks and then inters.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:15 am 
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Granto! wrote:
On topic again! The lap Alonso elected to stay out on slicks when the team had inters ready for him! Anyone know how much time he lost? I would guess around 20s! Could that have made a difference to the outcome of the race (put him right behind Button and maybe pressure him into an error?) That's the one that's been bugging me! Did Alonso forfeit a "potential" win (and therefore title) by staying out 1 more lap?


20s?? thats abit exaggerating. even on inter, the pace wasnt there to compete with button....


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:18 am 
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That's my point. It could have been so different. I'm not saying Vettel doesn't deserve his titles. I just can't put him in the same league as Hamilton and Alonso until he starts doing something with a poor car. But it's scary to think Alonso with a tiny bit (more) luck, could be 5 times WDC now!


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:21 am 
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I don't know. He was ridiculously slow in the first half of that lap and on the previous lap I think Coulthard said he dropped 13s! I don't think he was close enough at that point to have jumped Button but he could have put him under pressure.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:27 am 
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Granto! wrote:
That's my point. It could have been so different. I'm not saying Vettel doesn't deserve his titles. I just can't put him in the same league as Hamilton and Alonso until he starts doing something with a poor car. But it's scary to think Alonso with a tiny bit (more) luck, could be 5 times WDC now!


No ones ever done anything worthwhile with a poor car.

The 2012 Ferrari was a crap qualifier, but it had the race pace more often than not and other cars kept breaking down. That is why Alonso was in contention this year, not because he's gods gift as some will lead you to think.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:43 am 
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On the flip side, instead of remarking how close it was in the end, lets analyze fernando's performances in the last races of each of the seasons.

Brazil 07, abu dhabi 10 and brazil 12 were poor races from him, see a pattern? Perhaps the pressure get to him? Not bad performances, but not worthy of a WDC either.

Contrast that to Kimi in 2007 and Vettel in 2010 where they overcame significant deficits or yesterday when seb after the initial incident, did a lot of overtaking under pressure to get into points positions.

Alonso needs to learn to maintain all the momentum he had at the beginning of the season, he seems to fade away a bit towards the end.

JMO


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:47 am 
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A season is full of IFs and Buts for all the drivers.. All have their lucky and unlucky moments... Its all about maximizing what you have....ALonso fought well this season.. But 2010 and 2007 were his own doings...

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:47 am 
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keenf1fan wrote:
On the flip side, instead of remarking how close it was in the end, lets analyze fernando's performances in the last races of each of the seasons.

Brazil 07... and brazil 12 were poor races from him, see a pattern?


No they weren't. Ferrari were on their own in race pace at Brazil in 2007 and he finished 2nd in what was probably the 3rd-4th fastest car on the grid in Brazil this year. You couldn't have dreamed anything more to have come out of that Ferrari yesterday.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:03 am 
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Toby. wrote:
keenf1fan wrote:
On the flip side, instead of remarking how close it was in the end, lets analyze fernando's performances in the last races of each of the seasons.

Brazil 07... and brazil 12 were poor races from him, see a pattern?


No they weren't. Ferrari were on their own in race pace at Brazil in 2007 and he finished 2nd in what was probably the 3rd-4th fastest car on the grid in Brazil this year. You couldn't have dreamed anything more to have come out of that Ferrari yesterday.


Brazil 12 was certainly poor. Everything went in Alonso's favor but pace wise he was nowhere (especially when it was wet). Vettel had the idiot Webber at the start squeezing him after his usual poor start. Alonso had Massa fighting his battled for him, finishing ahead of Vettel; Hulk and Hamilton out of his way and the SC to give him a best shot at the win. He failed to do want was necessary (to overtake Button) on the wet track and he was supposed to be the best in the wet. Alonso would have been at best 5th if it wasn't for others misfortune and his teammate playing for him. It was an extremely lucky season for Alonso and it would've been travesty if he had won yesterday with so much luck. He's a great driver but he/Ferrari didn't deserve the WDC.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:55 am 
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lab105 wrote:
Granto! wrote:
That's my point. It could have been so different. I'm not saying Vettel doesn't deserve his titles. I just can't put him in the same league as Hamilton and Alonso until he starts doing something with a poor car. But it's scary to think Alonso with a tiny bit (more) luck, could be 5 times WDC now!


No ones ever done anything worthwhile with a poor car.

The 2012 Ferrari was a crap qualifier, but it had the race pace more often than not and other cars kept breaking down. That is why Alonso was in contention this year, not because he's gods gift as some will lead you to think.


When has Alonso and Hamilton done anything worthwhile in a poor car???

Alonso had great cars in 05, 06, 07
08 He cheated and lucked into his Japan win with Massa and Hamilton screwing each other over.
He had a poor car in 09 and did squat

The only time Hamilton has had a "poor" car was the 1/2 of 2009 and did squat
That 2nd half car could've made him a contender if Mclaren had that car all year
07,08,10,11 and 12 were all great cars from Mclaren that had the ability to win races. So again when have they ever done anything in a poor car????


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:56 am 
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in that case couldn't MSC of had 8 or 9?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:06 am 
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superuser wrote:
Brazil 12 was certainly poor. Everything went in Alonso's favor but pace wise he was nowhere (especially when it was wet).


This. Every Alonso fan on the planet was hoping for rain because in the rain the driver matters more than the car and the best rise to the top.
Yet ironically, in the rain Vettel had Alonso's measure all race long, only losing time when the track got dry (due to a damaged RBR).


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:43 am 
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It is incredible that Alonso could have been 5 time world champion,instead of 2,seems to always be in the wrong car at the right time.This season he was just unbelievably good but unfortunately was again in the wrong car.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:22 am 
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Alonso was good, may be very good even in the first half of the season, but if you think he was unbelievably good, the massa is then unbelievably unbelievably good?

We should cut out the hyperbole and the speculation, Alonso could have been 5 times champion and Raikkonen could have been 9 times champion and may be pigs can fly. At the end of the day, the best driver in the best car wins championships and alonso this year was not.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:24 am 
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keenf1fan wrote:
Alonso was good, may be very good even in the first half of the season, but if you think he was unbelievably good, the massa is then unbelievably unbelievably good?

We should cut out the hyperbole and the speculation, Alonso could have been 5 times champion and Raikkonen could have been 9 times champion and may be pigs can fly. At the end of the day, the best driver in the best car wins championships and alonso this year was not.


+1

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:25 am 
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Wow! how many more threads of Alonso fans in denial are we going to see. GET OVER IT!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:30 am 
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Sadly, I think this will (wrongly) reinforce Ferrari/Alonso's mentality that the 2nd driver must always play a supporting role. Every single point matters.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso, 5 time WDC!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:41 am 
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And Kimi 3 times WDC. Yay! This is fun


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