planetf1.com

I can't believe the system allows for a marshal on/that close to the circuit waving a green flag that only applies to the pitlane. Not when it's so clearly visible on, and seemingly applicable to, the circuit. That seems hugely dangerous and confusing.

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Klaus Kinski: making me question my heroes since January 2013

From an earlier post by a man in the know......

Damn, read the thread. It doesn't matter what his dash lights show.

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Ferrari. Logo - check
Brazil. Brazilian? - maybe.
Appeal. Mmm - check.
Uber..?

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What did you say... Douglas?

This is the difference between a reliable source and some sad twat who wants people to like his youtube page.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... um=twitter

Fernando? Is this you?

Sorry - that one was obvious... so you are suggesting that F1 drivers, while fighting for and/or defending positions and going sthg between 200 and 300 kph should be able to differ between a green flag for the race track and a green flag for the pit exit, which uncomfortably happens to be at a position that can be seen from both positions... oh boy!

as for your other point which i recall as...

that would basically mean that - once the lap-insert on the tv-screens turns yellow - overtaking on any part of the track must not occur...

as you say - that sign is run by a computer, as are the flashing light indicators and the LEDs on the dash... however - as you should know as a spectator - MARSHALLS ARE NOT ... they wave their flags according to rules and if a marshall waves a green flag it is green - no matter what the tv-insert says...

Bet the reason the dash lights were still on is that they are only triggered when a car passes a light board and not a flag. Race control knows 100% for sure what color a board is displaying as they have to tell it to display that. They cannot be 100% sure a human being is waving a flag and that it is the right color until they actually SEE it. Would make sense. Im too lazy to go back and look, was there a board near the flag station immediately following the NK pass?

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Just for some clarification?

Are dash lights on the steering wheel controlled by the stewards/race control??

That makes sense and your response seems reasonable, that is my problem, I am just going on what I witnessed at the tracks I attended and it appears Brazil indeed has the same placement of a marshall on pit exit. I am suggessting that if a marshall flag takes precendent over a multi million dollar computer system with sensors and real time availability why do thay have compeuter aided systems in the cars, on the track? It seems to me human error is much more prevalent then computer error and this marshall could be wrong. whats to say he is correct when ALL other evidence clearly shows YELLOW flags in that area? I am suggessting he was wrong or he was a pit exit marshall if there actually is that type of marshall.

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One.
The best song ever written....thanks Bono
I am the Number 1Tifosi

My opinion as a Ferrari and an Alonso fan, if Vettel had been found guilty I'd have had him lose 2 points and still be champion, I wouldn't have liked to win like that.

No they are controlled by the GPS Marshaling System. They are there to help only, they are not the standard. Think of this: If you are in a wet race and your on board dash light system fails the way say, YOUR RADIO might, it has a different consequence for you than the rest of the field. If a light board fails or a marshall shows the wrong flag, every car passing it sees the same thing, so the consequence is the same for everyone.

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Wouldn't it be great if somebody pulled a clip of Alonso overtaking under yellows. We love the drama, it is close season

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

It doesn't matter if the human being is right or wrong. Every driver sees the same thing, even if the marshal is waving the wrong flag, so it has the same consequence for everyone. Also, it is not unheard of to have a section of green track amidst many yellow areas. I've been on track and seen yellow, green, yellow, green, yellow at successive posts. Its annoying!

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We did fine with just Marshals for the 60 years of the sport before lights came out. In fact most tracks still predominately use flags. The lights only occur every 500m or so. So if you are clear of the "danger" zone but its 500m to next light flag and a marshal post is between the two, then use the Marshal post to get the race back on sooner.

Whether the Marshal was right or not is not important, the important thing is, Seb saw the flag and that is what made him make the overtake. Seb knows the rules, see green and race. Marshal post overrules dash reading. Vettel knows a lot more than us it seems.

Furthermore, the marshal was correct in showing green because the "danger zone" had been passed.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

THIS! Would you like to see the screenshot from an FIA computer showing which section of the track was under yellow flags...

http://twitpic.com/bhg38g

DRAMA, YER BASTARDS!

edit: link fix!yer bastards

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Live Forever.

neither the computer, nor the marshall is wrong... the reason for the yellow flag was in the corner before that post... so there is no danger anymore - that's why the marshall waived green... the computer says yellow, because the gps-loaded light-board has a fixed position further down the road - hence can't move towards the green-waiving marshall... however the race at that point was "green" and overtaking therefore allowed...

and as others pointed out - even if it shouldn't have been green and the marshall was at fault - every driver got the green flag signal and so no rule was broken...

There is no case.

Why did you overtake in yellow flag zone?
Because I was shown green flag [view video footage]

Case closed.

The FIA has provided the driver with conflicting information (dash and flag post) but importantly the rule state that flag post overalls dash reading.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

I wwould agree it is annoying, but if it is the same for everyone then everyone who passed another in that area should be penalized. I agree 100% with that point. So if it doesnt matter if the marshall is right or wrong and that area of the track was YELLOW as all evedience other than this marshall suggessts then anyone passing in that area should be penalized. Thank you for helping me make that point and I agree with what you are saying.

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One.
The best song ever written....thanks Bono
I am the Number 1Tifosi

What's so dramatic in that graphic?

Are you being stubborn or are you really dense?

If Vettel lost the places, I can see Red Bull going through every drivers onboard for the entire race and finding other drivers doing the same somewhere on track and him being able to get the places back.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

the resolution... hurts my eyes every time i look at it...

[/quote]Are you being stubborn or are you really dense?[/quote]
He drinks from both cups it seems.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

I bet that marshal is brickin' it also surely saying there's no case for Hulkenberg's penalty because he lost control and "Didn't mean too" still a penalty, still his fault. Vettel may have misinterpreted the flags, he probably didn't mean to but he still went against the rules. To quote every bouncer in the world "That's the rules mate!".

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Live Forever.

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"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."

He did not misinterpret anything. He was shown a waving green flag which means overtaking permitted.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

If a driver is shown conflicting flags, I don’t think it’s fair to penalize him for going with the wrong one.

We should probably stop, it is just not sinking in.

Well what I take from it is where the yellow zone ends is after the after the place where Vettel made the over take, but that's just me judging by the pitlane lines on the graph and footage, but as someone has already pointed out the resolution is woeful.

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Live Forever.

Hmmm, tell me again why everyone should be penalized for racing when they've seen a green flag? Drivers don't know what color race control wants a marshal to show, they can only know what color the marshal IS showing, and that is why the flag takes priority.

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Nationality or...

Most likely yes in either case.

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"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."

misinterpreting a green flag? give me a break! there is absolutely zero room for interpretation.

green flag = go
yellow flag = caution
red flag = race stopped
black flag = you're out

not more, no less... as one of my teachers use to say: "humans can't be a little bit pregnant"...

I thought that was for the pitlane?

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Live Forever.

There is no such thing as conflicting flags as there is only one flag at each station. The only way there would be such a thing as conflicting flags is if one marshal was simultaneously showing his yellow AND green flags (or red and green for that matter).

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No, the pit lane exit is controlled way before that by traffic lights and marshal post.
With that logic a car exiting the pits would be allowed to overtake but those already on track would not be able to.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

Except its only in your opinion that rules were broken.

There is no way they would put a pit lane only signal so far at the end of the pit exit. Also wouldn't it make sense if it was for the pit lane exit to be waving yellow letting them know they are entering into a yellow zone?

Just drop it already YOU ARE WRONG!

You're f****ing with us, right? - OK, alright... you've had your fun for today...

Guys, maybe you need to do a little test I've had to do, only you'll have to do it virtually. Why don't you pull up some onboard from the race of your choice and try to make a mental note of every flag and light the driver passed over the course of a couple of laps, then watch it in slow mo and see how many you might have missed. Its a good way to understand why when you're behind the wheel and you see a flag you just behave in accordance with what that flag is telling you. There's no time to rationalize "well this green flag is surrounded by yellows so the guy is probably making a mistake and I should assume its supposed to be yellow". It will also help you to understand why there's no way a circuit would have a marshal in an ambiguous location between track and pit lane.

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Just been thinking about this marshall.

This marshall was the waving the green flag, fair enough.
However, The same marshall must have had his control box thingy set to yellow. Which in turn would've told Charlie/race control and the drivers dash.

So unfortunately for this marshall he is contradicting himself by giving out different information to different bodies at the same time. I doubt there's no FIA rule that covers this!

Bet it sucks to be this marshall at the moment.... I'm guessing that the FIA will need to interview this marshall and the outcome of this interview may well decide whos gets the title.

Jeeeeezzzzoooooooooooooo

Yeah I think people are extracting the urine now.