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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:01 am 
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Spain is big on motorsport. But yes, it doesn't seem like a place which oozes in technological capability. Oranges, maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:02 am 
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moby wrote:
Just read this at Sewards blog (wordpress)

There are reports today that when the team members returned to Madrid after the race there was a confrontation with one of the management and that the police were called. No-one was arrested, but reports were published suggesting that the team members were drunk.

I am told that this was not the case at all and that the team members became irate when they were not allowed to leave the premises until they agreed to sign a contract termination document; and that personal effects, such as car keys, were withheld.

I guess you can believe whichever story you like but whatever the case, it is a sad end to a story that involved a lot of people doing a lot of work in an effort to keep the team alive.


That's called kidnapping isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:44 am 
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kai_ wrote:
Maky wrote:
kai_ wrote:
Whatever the reality of the situation, I am quite appalled by HRT Management.

My understanding is that they were hiring people not that long ago with attractive packages despite the fact that they already knew that there was not much chance of the team surviving and were merely hiring like crazy to look attractive to potential investors.

People made choices to take those jobs over others and move their lives in good faith. The approach by HRT Management has actually damaged lives and I hope they are properly held accountable for it, though I doubt they will be.

That is a positive way to go about saying it but I think these people chose positions at HRT as they were unable to get jobs at better teams for the same reason a better qualified individual works/gets job at a better firm than the other guy. I guess they knew full well the risks of working at a small team especially given the history of F1 where many teams have folded over the years. This is not in defence of HRT higher-ups mind you, They are cocks.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to assume that people went to HRT because they were unable to get a job at a better team. People have varying motivations for why they take up positions - lifestyle, salary, promotion to a better position even though it's not as well-regarded an organisation to get the experience, working environment.

I speak in terms of probabilities but yes what you say is possible as well...circumstances.


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:22 pm 
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I'm suprised by some of the comments on here. The management are responsible for making decisions which affect people. When it comes to money these people need paying, the management should have been responsible enough to get enough money top pay the staff, It's always the same when any employer is bankrupt. It happened to me and it took over 2 years to get a few hundred pounds from the government, the company i worked for didn't pay anything because there were too many creditors. It's going to be a really poor Christmas for these guys!
It could happen to anyone in the lower echelons of F1 and to be honest if i were in my early 20's i would have thought about taking a job with HRT just to be there, in the same pitlane as Frank Williams and the Renault engineers, the Lotus cars and Kimi Raikkonen, Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari and all. Being a part of it is what it's all about not banging some keyboard telling people well what did they exopect at a team like HRT. As for comments about workers turning up drunk, i'm pretty sure they didn't if you think about it i'm sure you would too, how many workers and how many managers? It's just the press i think.


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Amon wrote:
I think HRT going down the slump has also to do with a lot of bad management decisions. The move of the base to Spain, not really a cradle of motorsport and a weak economy seemed like a death pit. Colin made significant progression with them in their second season but that was all wiped of this season. I expected them to struggle this year but not this bad. I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to buy this team not as long as the base is in Spain. I hope for 1 or 2 new teams to enter F1 for 2014.


I love to see "Stoddy" back with his own team.

Also I like to see another US based team and possibly a US manufacturer into the grid in order to draw interest for US drivers.


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Placid wrote:
Amon wrote:
I think HRT going down the slump has also to do with a lot of bad management decisions. The move of the base to Spain, not really a cradle of motorsport and a weak economy seemed like a death pit. Colin made significant progression with them in their second season but that was all wiped of this season. I expected them to struggle this year but not this bad. I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to buy this team not as long as the base is in Spain. I hope for 1 or 2 new teams to enter F1 for 2014.


I love to see "Stoddy" back with his own team.

Also I like to see another US based team and possibly a US manufacturer into the grid in order to draw interest for US drivers.

Get Chevrolet in with Stoddy running it :P
I'd support Chev!

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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:41 pm 
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becker wrote:
Reports emerging that the directors tried to flee the factory in the HRT F112 but the mechanics caught up with them on foot.


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Just to put a slightly different slant on things; very often a troubled company trying to survive will be in the position of 11th-hour negotiations trying to secure funding or investment, not knowing which way things will go, and very often the management will be in the very difficult position of not being able to tell staff that there is no money to pay them (unless the deal comes off). If they do tell the staff too early there is a chance of revolt which might finish the business off regardless of what else happens.

I’m not saying that is the case here but there are always 2 sides and I’d be surprised if the management team (who are also workers at the end of the day) were not doing their best to save the company and everyone’s jobs.


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Biffa wrote:
Just to put a slightly different slant on things; very often a troubled company trying to survive will be in the position of 11th-hour negotiations trying to secure funding or investment, not knowing which way things will go, and very often the management will be in the very difficult position of not being able to tell staff that there is no money to pay them (unless the deal comes off). If they do tell the staff too early there is a chance of revolt which might finish the business off regardless of what else happens.

I’m not saying that is the case here but there are always 2 sides and I’d be surprised if the management team (who are also workers at the end of the day) were not doing their best to save the company and everyone’s jobs.


It's really too late. They have debts to pay off, and dont even have a plan for a car, let alone the ability to build it. Most teams will be a pretty long way into development, with all major parts pretty much done - dont forget that we see car releases from January.

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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:27 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
Placid wrote:
Amon wrote:
I think HRT going down the slump has also to do with a lot of bad management decisions. The move of the base to Spain, not really a cradle of motorsport and a weak economy seemed like a death pit. Colin made significant progression with them in their second season but that was all wiped of this season. I expected them to struggle this year but not this bad. I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to buy this team not as long as the base is in Spain. I hope for 1 or 2 new teams to enter F1 for 2014.


I love to see "Stoddy" back with his own team.

Also I like to see another US based team and possibly a US manufacturer into the grid in order to draw interest for US drivers.

Get Chevrolet in with Stoddy running it :P
I'd support Chev!


It could be named Chevrolet / Australia Version, or CHAV

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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:28 pm 
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So they are really horrible racing team, afterall.


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:31 pm 
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RickM wrote:
Biffa wrote:
Just to put a slightly different slant on things; very often a troubled company trying to survive will be in the position of 11th-hour negotiations trying to secure funding or investment, not knowing which way things will go, and very often the management will be in the very difficult position of not being able to tell staff that there is no money to pay them (unless the deal comes off). If they do tell the staff too early there is a chance of revolt which might finish the business off regardless of what else happens.

I’m not saying that is the case here but there are always 2 sides and I’d be surprised if the management team (who are also workers at the end of the day) were not doing their best to save the company and everyone’s jobs.


It's really too late. They have debts to pay off, and dont even have a plan for a car, let alone the ability to build it. Most teams will be a pretty long way into development, with all major parts pretty much done - dont forget that we see car releases from January.


Yes that's true, but the point I was really trying to make was we shouldn't necessarily jump on the bandwagon of demonizing the management without knowing the full picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:50 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
Placid wrote:
Amon wrote:
I think HRT going down the slump has also to do with a lot of bad management decisions. The move of the base to Spain, not really a cradle of motorsport and a weak economy seemed like a death pit. Colin made significant progression with them in their second season but that was all wiped of this season. I expected them to struggle this year but not this bad. I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to buy this team not as long as the base is in Spain. I hope for 1 or 2 new teams to enter F1 for 2014.


I love to see "Stoddy" back with his own team.

Also I like to see another US based team and possibly a US manufacturer into the grid in order to draw interest for US drivers.

Get Chevrolet in with Stoddy running it :P
I'd support Chev!

Chevy is already supplying V6 turbos for Indycar. This is something I could get behind.


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 Post subject: Re: Turning nasty at HRT
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:52 pm 
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If I wasn't paid I'd certainly have some strong words with my management. If still not paid I'd consider my company to be in breach of my working contract and would automatically withdraw my labour from the company until I was paid.

I am assuming that most of the regular staff have a poor basic wage anyway (although I don't think 100% of the money would be based on results.) I would then guess like most teams they have bonuses based on points, podiums, wins and placement in the constructors championship.


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