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does senna deserve a seat for 2013?
yes 52%  52%  [ 67 ]
no 48%  48%  [ 62 ]
Total votes : 129
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:31 pm 
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HamsterHuey wrote:
I really don't understand why people are so keen on Bruno. I mean I'm a huge Ayrton Senna fan, but Bruno hasn't really done anything worthwhile to prove that he deserves to remain in F1. Coming in as a new guy, it really doesn't matter if you are consistent but slow. He has been severely outpaced by Maldonado when it comes to one lap and race pace (when he doesn't crash). I'd much rather work with a Maldonado or a Grosjean than Senna. Senna has never shown any true pace and there are plenty of other drivers waiting in the wings who can perform as well if not much better than him.

i disagree race pace Bruno senna has been just as fast, the only thing he has lacked this year is qualifying. Pace, which past experience and and last season shows he isn't slow at qualifying at all. This season i cant explain why maybe tires maybe pressure i don't know but in general he can put one lap pace together.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:41 pm 
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I voted no because, I just don't think he's good enough compared to some of the other guys without a seat. Alguersari and perhaps KK to name a few. I was never really that impressed with him anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:46 pm 
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You know what I honestly do not know.

He isn't that fast compared to some but he was very very consistent this year and had a lot of points finishes. He has something to offer a team. In a year where they will be trying to learn as much as possible for 2014 as well as 2013 a consistent driver could be key. Someone like Caterham could do well with a consistent guy like Bruno but he's not quick enough to boot someone like Kobayashi out of the sport.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:59 pm 
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According to the Brazilian press, Senna is very close to driving for Force India next season.
The sponsors have confirmed and agreed for a rumoured $20mil backing. Seems to be a signature away.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:08 pm 
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XploZiV wrote:
According to the Brazilian press, Senna is very close to driving for Force India next season.
The sponsors have confirmed and agreed for a rumoured $20mil backing. Seems to be a signature away.


:nod:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:30 pm 
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the incubus wrote:
Armchair Expert wrote:
the incubus wrote:
Vergne, Pic, Ricciardo, DiResta, Maldonado, and Glock.


All I can say is LOL. At least 3 out of these 6 drivers would wipe the floor with Senna. One actually already has done it.

the incubus wrote:
So there's 6 guys I think he's proven to be better than. As well we have to remember this poor guy hasn't enjoyed any continuity in his F1 Career until this year where he finally got to run a full season, albeit handing the car off to Bottas on the ever important Friday practices and he STILL bested Maldonado over the entire season. Sure Maldonado got a win which was fantastic, but where was he at the rest of the season in comparison to Senna?


In what pararell universe Senna bested Maldonado? Can you point it out for me?

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2012/
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 14133.html

the incubus wrote:
I suspect that in a better car he would've surprised a great deal of people.


He already got great car this year, what does he need to 'surprise' people? Red Bull rocketship 1 second per lap quicker than the rest? Laugable.


I'm very happy Williams chose much better driver for 2013. Hopefully Senna and his pile of money won't buy him another seat in F1 and he will do something on his level of skills, like DTM or WEC.

I LOVE that your screen name says everything we need to know, to know you have absolutely no idea about the matter. Thanks for that. ;)

Here are 2012's results.
Image

Outside Maldonado's victory Senna outperformed over the entire season. 10 points scoring finishes for Senna vs just 5 for Maldonado. AND, Senna didn't wreck the car the way Maldonado did. I think Ray Charles in his current state could see who is the better driver and who deserves the seat more.

Posted this on another thread a few days ago.

Maldonado has fought for podium places in Spain, Valencia, Singapore and Abu Dhabi. Bruno has never done this.

Maldonado fought for a top 6 place in Aus, China, Bahrain (from the back of the grid), Silverstone and Germany, Bruno has in Malaysia, China, Hungary.

Maldo's points earned in just two races (Spain and Abu Dhabi) beat Bruno's total for the season. Picking up P8-10s not great when the car is capable of multiple podium-top 6 finishes.

Bruno had a clear pace advantage in only two races Hungary and Korea and the two times Bruno outQ'd Maldo was due to a KERS failure and a crash when Maldo was about to make it into Q3. Maldo reached Q3 13 times and had 5 top 4 Q's, Bruno reached Q3 once and only had 3 top 12 Q's.

The fact is both drivers have undeperformed the cars capabilties a lot, but Maldonado has way more potential. If Williams had two Bruno's people would be thinking the Williams car was nearly as bad as the Toro Rosso! Williams should really be P5/6 in the WCC with the car they have. Constant P8-10s not really great in a car capable of multiple top 6 finishes.

Was David Coulthard better than Mark Webber in 2007? Was Alex Wurz nearly as good as Nico Rosberg in 2007? Was Jenson Button nearly as good as Lewis Hamilton in 2012?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:45 pm 
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XploZiV wrote:
According to the Brazilian press, Senna is very close to driving for Force India next season.
The sponsors have confirmed and agreed for a rumoured $20mil backing. Seems to be a signature away.

So potentially a slight move up the grid for him. FI are going to have to work hard to keep ahead of Williams next year.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:07 pm 
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XploZiV wrote:
According to the Brazilian press, Senna is very close to driving for Force India next season.
The sponsors have confirmed and agreed for a rumoured $20mil backing. Seems to be a signature away.


Force India would be the best seat for Bruno (If not Lotus), expecially in the case of a 2 years contract and not one like Williams (one year, losing FP1 every weekend).

I think also that the FI should suit his smooth driving style, it dosen't look like a very nervous car on track.

Waiting for developements, hope for that.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:30 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Button and Raikkonen came from much lower and did fine in there debut year.



IIRC Button had a few Oops moments that first year . They came from lower formulas. BUT neither as far as I know came from a lower formula AND effectively had a year off racing.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:49 pm 
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kingjamie wrote:
the incubus wrote:
Armchair Expert wrote:
the incubus wrote:
Vergne, Pic, Ricciardo, DiResta, Maldonado, and Glock.


All I can say is LOL. At least 3 out of these 6 drivers would wipe the floor with Senna. One actually already has done it.

the incubus wrote:
So there's 6 guys I think he's proven to be better than. As well we have to remember this poor guy hasn't enjoyed any continuity in his F1 Career until this year where he finally got to run a full season, albeit handing the car off to Bottas on the ever important Friday practices and he STILL bested Maldonado over the entire season. Sure Maldonado got a win which was fantastic, but where was he at the rest of the season in comparison to Senna?


In what pararell universe Senna bested Maldonado? Can you point it out for me?

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2012/
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 14133.html

the incubus wrote:
I suspect that in a better car he would've surprised a great deal of people.


He already got great car this year, what does he need to 'surprise' people? Red Bull rocketship 1 second per lap quicker than the rest? Laugable.


I'm very happy Williams chose much better driver for 2013. Hopefully Senna and his pile of money won't buy him another seat in F1 and he will do something on his level of skills, like DTM or WEC.

I LOVE that your screen name says everything we need to know, to know you have absolutely no idea about the matter. Thanks for that. ;)

Here are 2012's results.
Image

Outside Maldonado's victory Senna outperformed over the entire season. 10 points scoring finishes for Senna vs just 5 for Maldonado. AND, Senna didn't wreck the car the way Maldonado did. I think Ray Charles in his current state could see who is the better driver and who deserves the seat more.

Posted this on another thread a few days ago.

Maldonado has fought for podium places in Spain, Valencia, Singapore and Abu Dhabi. Bruno has never done this.

Maldonado fought for a top 6 place in Aus, China, Bahrain (from the back of the grid), Silverstone and Germany, Bruno has in Malaysia, China, Hungary.

Maldo's points earned in just two races (Spain and Abu Dhabi) beat Bruno's total for the season. Picking up P8-10s not great when the car is capable of multiple podium-top 6 finishes.

Bruno had a clear pace advantage in only two races Hungary and Korea and the two times Bruno outQ'd Maldo was due to a KERS failure and a crash when Maldo was about to make it into Q3. Maldo reached Q3 13 times and had 5 top 4 Q's, Bruno reached Q3 once and only had 3 top 12 Q's.

The fact is both drivers have undeperformed the cars capabilties a lot, but Maldonado has way more potential. If Williams had two Bruno's people would be thinking the Williams car was nearly as bad as the Toro Rosso! Williams should really be P5/6 in the WCC with the car they have. Constant P8-10s not really great in a car capable of multiple top 6 finishes.

Was David Coulthard better than Mark Webber in 2007? Was Alex Wurz nearly as good as Nico Rosberg in 2007? Was Jenson Button nearly as good as Lewis Hamilton in 2012?

I understand where you are coming from but you only get on the podium if you finish. ;)

As well, the entire Williams campaign has been tailored around Maldonado the past 2 years as his gargantuan sponsorship dictates he gets priority. We will see next year how Bottas compares to Maldonado. Either way, by the looks of it Senna might be gearing up to take the 2nd seat at Force India which means Sutil will still be out, as will Alguesuari. Only the one Marussia seat and both Caterham seats are still officially open but I think both teams are looking for pay drivers to fund their own campaigns.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:37 am 
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the incubus wrote:
kingjamie wrote:
the incubus wrote:
Armchair Expert wrote:
the incubus wrote:
Vergne, Pic, Ricciardo, DiResta, Maldonado, and Glock.


All I can say is LOL. At least 3 out of these 6 drivers would wipe the floor with Senna. One actually already has done it.

the incubus wrote:
So there's 6 guys I think he's proven to be better than. As well we have to remember this poor guy hasn't enjoyed any continuity in his F1 Career until this year where he finally got to run a full season, albeit handing the car off to Bottas on the ever important Friday practices and he STILL bested Maldonado over the entire season. Sure Maldonado got a win which was fantastic, but where was he at the rest of the season in comparison to Senna?


In what pararell universe Senna bested Maldonado? Can you point it out for me?

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2012/
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 14133.html

the incubus wrote:
I suspect that in a better car he would've surprised a great deal of people.


He already got great car this year, what does he need to 'surprise' people? Red Bull rocketship 1 second per lap quicker than the rest? Laugable.


I'm very happy Williams chose much better driver for 2013. Hopefully Senna and his pile of money won't buy him another seat in F1 and he will do something on his level of skills, like DTM or WEC.

I LOVE that your screen name says everything we need to know, to know you have absolutely no idea about the matter. Thanks for that. ;)

Here are 2012's results.
Image

Outside Maldonado's victory Senna outperformed over the entire season. 10 points scoring finishes for Senna vs just 5 for Maldonado. AND, Senna didn't wreck the car the way Maldonado did. I think Ray Charles in his current state could see who is the better driver and who deserves the seat more.

Posted this on another thread a few days ago.

Maldonado has fought for podium places in Spain, Valencia, Singapore and Abu Dhabi. Bruno has never done this.

Maldonado fought for a top 6 place in Aus, China, Bahrain (from the back of the grid), Silverstone and Germany, Bruno has in Malaysia, China, Hungary.

Maldo's points earned in just two races (Spain and Abu Dhabi) beat Bruno's total for the season. Picking up P8-10s not great when the car is capable of multiple podium-top 6 finishes.

Bruno had a clear pace advantage in only two races Hungary and Korea and the two times Bruno outQ'd Maldo was due to a KERS failure and a crash when Maldo was about to make it into Q3. Maldo reached Q3 13 times and had 5 top 4 Q's, Bruno reached Q3 once and only had 3 top 12 Q's.

The fact is both drivers have undeperformed the cars capabilties a lot, but Maldonado has way more potential. If Williams had two Bruno's people would be thinking the Williams car was nearly as bad as the Toro Rosso! Williams should really be P5/6 in the WCC with the car they have. Constant P8-10s not really great in a car capable of multiple top 6 finishes.

Was David Coulthard better than Mark Webber in 2007? Was Alex Wurz nearly as good as Nico Rosberg in 2007? Was Jenson Button nearly as good as Lewis Hamilton in 2012?

I understand where you are coming from but you only get on the podium if you finish. ;)

As well, the entire Williams campaign has been tailored around Maldonado the past 2 years as his gargantuan sponsorship dictates he gets priority. We will see next year how Bottas compares to Maldonado. Either way, by the looks of it Senna might be gearing up to take the 2nd seat at Force India which means Sutil will still be out, as will Alguesuari. Only the one Marussia seat and both Caterham seats are still officially open but I think both teams are looking for pay drivers to fund their own campaigns.

pic has a Caterham seat so only one Caterham open


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Rumours have increased saying Bruno will race for Force India next season and that only minor issues prevent an official announcement. So it could very well be true.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:41 pm 
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XploZiV wrote:
Rumours have increased saying Bruno will race for Force India next season and that only minor issues prevent an official announcement. So it could very well be true.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:44 am 
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Senna deserves a real chance. Maldonado was generally quicker than Senna, but Senna has consistently brought home the points.

Maldonado is a bit of a liability, remember the Monaco incident where he crushed Perez into the wall, or the Qualifying incident where he deliberately cut across Hamilton in anger. That sort of behaviour is not acceptable in F1 nor should it be.

Senna also had no Practice 1 for 3/4 of the races due to 'sharing' with Bottas. This has a double effect of not only allowing Senna less practice time, but also must knock his confidence.

Its not really a fair comparison, though there rarely is a fair comparison in F1. Senna seems such a likable and humble chap, I would argue that F1 needs more personalities like Senna and less like Maldonado. But its not a race of personalities. I would say Senna deserves a chance in a team which will support him properly rather than having his successor in the garage with him every race looking over his shoulder.

If the rumours are true that Senna may be heading to Force India, I will be happy to see him in F1, if they are not true I will be sad to see him go.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:02 am 
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I dont think Senna has ever impressed me and I doubt he ever will. The fact he stuggled to make Q2 several times when Maldonado had front row starts is mind boggling and Bruno has never been at the sharp end of the grid compared to Maldonado who fought for podiums. Maybe he could have one last shot down the grid but there are other proven andmore deserving drivers out there (Kobayashi, Alguersuari, Bianchi).


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:59 am 
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More rumors on Lotus option for Senna.
http://www.f1passion.it/2012/12/f1-gros ... -la-lotus/


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:48 am 
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Force India just recently stated they were looking for talent, not money. Have they backtracked then if they're seriously considering giving Senna the second seat? Yes, Bruno was consistent. Consistently slow, and it would be a shame to see him snatch the drive from the likes of Kobayashi or Alguersuari.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:57 am 
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Seanie wrote:
He's proven he can consistently bring the car home and score points.


True. Apart from Maldonado's win, it was Senna who kept getting points and performing with some consistency. He seemed to be on an upward curve performance-wise towards the close of the 2012 season. I think he deserves a drive in a good car.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am 
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I think there are other drivers more deserving, but it's just my view. Kobayashi for starters whose future is uncertain.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:54 am 
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RaisinChips wrote:
Force India just recently stated they were looking for talent, not money. Have they backtracked then if they're seriously considering giving Senna the second seat? Yes, Bruno was consistent. Consistently slow, and it would be a shame to see him snatch the drive from the likes of Kobayashi or Alguersuari.

VJM has stated in the past what a big admirer of sennas he is in fact he wanted to sign in in 09 but was assured brawn had already so gave up, of course brawn went for Rubens instead because they needed experience. They could still take senna as i don't think they see him as a pay driver as such.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:28 pm 
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shift wrote:
More rumors on Lotus option for Senna.
http://www.f1passion.it/2012/12/f1-gros ... -la-lotus/

translation anywhere for this i cant do it on my phone unless i do it a word at a time


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:32 pm 
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RaisinChips wrote:
Force India just recently stated they were looking for talent, not money. Have they backtracked then if they're seriously considering giving Senna the second seat? Yes, Bruno was consistent. Consistently slow, and it would be a shame to see him snatch the drive from the likes of Kobayashi or Alguersuari.

as for this alg never really set the world on fire either he is no more deserving than senna. Kob could feel aggrieved, but should have had a better management team that can actually get sponsors on board.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:35 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Senna is good, thing is I think there is at least 5 better drivers without a seat for next year.

Nail on head. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:08 pm 
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104712

Seems that Senna drove a Mercedes DTM car last week in Estoril.
Maybe a Force India (Mercedes) related test, or maybe a new opportunity in DTM if the F1 seat will not be achieved?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:48 pm 
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I really like Senna, but Di Resta / Senna at FI doesn't seem like the most exciting partnership in the world. I really feel sorry for Williams this year, imagine if Kimi had signed for them. Probably would have won a few races.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:05 am 
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gnolan wrote:
I really like Senna, but Di Resta / Senna at FI doesn't seem like the most exciting partnership in the world. I really feel sorry for Williams this year, imagine if Kimi had signed for them. Probably would have won a few races.


I could see Senna at Caterham or something. Kobayashi probably deserves the Force India seat more.


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